Paying for Mentorship? Really?

9 years ago

Excuse me but am not sure about those high ticket mentors however some blackhatters give many systems away and you can use them in my opinion. I consider those real marketers because they are raking in the big numbers as I saw some of them in some CPA network.

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johnben1444

9 years ago

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kilgore

9 years ago

Personally, I find the whole IM coach/mentor industry more than a little weird. I can't think of any other type of business where so many people make a living (or at least try to make a living) teaching others how to start a business. If you have a successful restaurant, it's unlikely that you'll make your next entrepreneurial effort teaching would-be restauranteurs how to start a restaurant. Sure you might write a cookbook. Maybe you'll even teach an occasional cooking class. But restaurant coaching? It just doesn't happen. But don't get me wrong, I'm not suggestiong that mentors/coaches are never helpful -- I really wouldn't know since I never had one. But I do find the whole IM coaching industry bizarre.

That said, there's a long history of entrepreneurial mentoring, at least in the US. Moreover, there are all sorts of free resources -- and mentors -- available to entrepreneurs.

For those warriors in the US who are looking for a business mentor, I recommend that you do some research on Small Business Development Centers (https://www.sba.gov/offices/headquar...esources/11409), a program of the Small Business Administration designed to provide technical assistance -- including mentoring -- to new entrepreneurs. (I imagine other countries have similar programs, I just don't have any knowledge about them). Most of these centers are run out universities, non-profits and local governments with grants they receive from the Federal Government.

SBDCs certainly aren't for everybody. You're unlikely to find a mentor who is an internet marketing expert -- indeed, most of them will never have heard of Clickbank or Amazon Associates; they'll have no experience with WordPress or AWeber; they'll know nothing about SEO or running PPC campaigns. But most will be able to help with most of the important aspects that all real businesses face and help you develop an actual business strategy and plan to become successful. The point is, if you're just looking to learn a few IM techniques to make a few bucks on the side -- or if you're looking for someone to hand you a ready-made checklist of every task you need to accomplish every single day -- they probably aren't for you. But if you're really interested in growing a real, sustainable business, they're probably at least worth a phone call.

I should also note that there are other non-SBDC resources for entrepreneurs, whether incubators or university research institutes or something else entirely. Do some research and you may find exactly what you're looking for. In short, there's a whole world outside of IM that you can learn from!

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tapiatom

9 years ago

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tapiatom

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kilgore

Personally, I find the whole IM coach/mentor industry more than a little weird. I can't think of any other type of business where so many people make a living (or at least try to make a living) teaching others how to start a business. If you have a successful restaurant, it's unlikely that you'll make your next entrepreneurial effort teaching would-be restauranteurs how to start a restaurant. Sure you might write a cookbook. Maybe you'll even teach an occasional cooking class. But restaurant coaching? It just doesn't happen. But don't get me wrong, I'm not suggestiong that mentors/coaches are never helpful -- I really wouldn't know since I never had one. But I do find the whole IM coaching industry bizarre.

That said, there's a long history of entrepreneurial mentoring, at least in the US. Moreover, there are all sorts of free resources -- and mentors -- available to entrepreneurs.

For those warriors in the US who are looking for a business mentor, I recommend that you do some research on Small Business Development Centers (https://www.sba.gov/offices/headquar...esources/11409), a program of the Small Business Administration designed to provide technical assistance -- including mentoring -- to new entrepreneurs. (I imagine other countries have similar programs, I just don't have any knowledge about them). Most of these centers are run out universities, non-profits and local governments with grants they receive from the Federal Government.

SBDCs certainly aren't for everybody. You're unlikely to find a mentor who is an internet marketing expert -- indeed, most of them will never have heard of Clickbank or Amazon Associates; they'll have no experience with WordPress or AWeber; they'll know nothing about SEO or running PPC campaigns. But most will be able to help with most of the important aspects that all real businesses face and help you develop an actual business strategy and plan to become successful. The point is, if you're just looking to learn a few IM techniques to make a few bucks on the side -- or if you're looking for someone to hand you a ready-made checklist of every task you need to accomplish every single day -- they probably aren't for you. But if you're really interested in growing a real, sustainable business, they're probably at least worth a phone call.

I should also note that there are other non-SBDC resources for entrepreneurs, whether incubators or university research institutes or something else entirely. Do some research and you may find exactly what you're looking for. In short, there's a whole world outside of IM that you can learn from!

Very Interesting opinion. I actually used to think the same and you might be totally right, however I have constantly seen success stories of newbies popping up everywhere. So they show how good they are doing posting a clickbank account screenshot with hundreds earned in a day and so on. So something must be happening there. Don´t you think?

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BigFrank

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by tapiatom

So they show how good they are doing posting a clickbank account screenshot with hundreds earned in a day and so on. So something must be happening there. Don´t you think?

Sure there's something happening there. Usually it's just good Photoshop skills to hook you on joining the program so they can get a fee themselves. I have never seen a screenshot of any PayPal or ClinkBank account that I believed. Not one and not ever.

Pardon my cynicism, but that's partially how I have lived to be an old man without ever having been taken for a ride - and I have done very well without having ever paid for coaching. I realize that 'very well' is a relative term, but I believe that most would be happy to do 'as' well.

I have had many people teach me many things along the way, but not one ever asked for a penny to do so. Those are the kind of people that I want to learn from.

Then, again - to each his own. If you feel that you can benefit from handing over thousands of your hard-earned dollars - go for it. That's what makes this a great country. Free will. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

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tapiatom

9 years ago

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Sure there's something happening there. Usually it's just good Photoshop skills to hook you on joining the program so they can get a fee themselves. I have never seen a screenshot of any PayPal or ClinkBank account that I believed. Not one and not ever.

Pardon my cynicism, but that's partially how I have lived to be an old man without ever having been taken for a ride - and I have done very well without having ever paid for coaching. I realize that 'very well' is a relative term, but I believe that most would be happy to do 'as' well.

I have had many people teach me many things along the way, but not one ever asked for a penny to do so. Those are the kind of people that I want to learn from.

Then, again - to each his own. If you feel that you can benefit from handing over thousands of your hard-earned dollars - go for it. That's what makes this a great country. Free will. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

I partly agree with you it´s just that I try to believe that most of the honest mentors have integrity and really try to help people who have struggled to succeed online. See? But please don´t get me wrong...I am not advocating for anyone of them actually. I just want to believe there is a way where I can be shown the right track by someone who has already been there.

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BigFrank

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by tapiatom

I just want to believe there is a way where I can be shown the right track by someone who has already been there.

I certainly understand your plight. I have always wanted to believe that if I flapped my arms hard enough that I could fly to the moon.

I would agree that your odds are better than mine, but I would never bet on either scenario actually coming to a successful conclusion. :-)

Cheers. - Frank

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criniit

9 years ago

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't agree with you.

In the IM/MMO world, when you pay a coach/mentor you are paying him/her to teach you and help you setup a business model that is working for them.

This is no different from buying into a franchise.

Take your example of a restauranteur, who has started a restaurant and is successful with it. Why are they successful? Because they have built a successful business model that is working for them.

Now if I wanted too start up a restaurant and I had no experience in the restaurant industry I could try and do it myself, most likely losing a ton of money and odds are I will fail. Or I could approach the successful restauranteur and ask to buy into his franchise. Where I usually pay a fee upfront and he hands over and teaches me his successful business model. This increases the chances of my success massively.

It's not a perfect metaphor but the same principle applies to internet marketing.

If you want to raise your chances of success as well as lessen the amount of money wasted trying different things that fail you need to find someone who can teach you a business model that is working. Thats what coaching is.

People buying into successful business models happens in every single industry. For restaurants and retail its franchises. For real estate agents its joining a "team". For internet marketing its coaching/mentoring.

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kilgore

9 years ago

Originally Posted by criniit

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't agree with you.

In the IM/MMO world, when you pay a coach/mentor you are paying him/her to teach you and help you setup a business model that is working for them.

This is no different from buying into a franchise.

Take your example of a restauranteur, who has started a restaurant and is successful with it. Why are they successful? Because they have built a successful business model that is working for them.

Now if I wanted too start up a restaurant and I had no experience in the restaurant industry I could try and do it myself, most likely losing a ton of money and odds are I will fail. Or I could approach the successful restauranteur and ask to buy into his franchise. Where I usually pay a fee upfront and he hands over and teaches me his successful business model. This increases the chances of my success massively.

It's not a perfect metaphor but the same principle applies to internet marketing.

If you want to raise your chances of success as well as lessen the amount of money wasted trying different things that fail you need to find someone who can teach you a business model that is working. Thats what coaching is.

People buying into successful business models happens in every single industry. For restaurants and retail its franchises. For real estate agents its joining a "team". For internet marketing its coaching/mentoring.

You're exactly right: the franchise model isn't a perfect analogy. In fact it's almost completely wrong.

When you buy into a franchise like McDonald's, you're not paying for business coaching. You're paying for pre-negotiated supply-chain contracts, national advertising campaigns, and above all the brand. And really it's the brand that is 1000 times more important than anything else you get. Can you imagine anyone paying Ray Kroc's company a franchise fee and not getting to use the name McDonald's on their restaurant? It's inconceivable.

Moreover, any good franchise won't accept just anyone. They have application processes that go far beyond just the fact that someone is able to pay the franchise fee. In short, they want to make sure that people buying into their businesses know something about business -- that they won't need the basic type of coaching that is on offer on the WF and elsewhere in the IM community.

So no, the franchise isn't a good model. It's not about coaching at all and in fact you couldn't buy a real franchise from a successful company if you really needed coaching in the first place.

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DubDubDubDot 9 years ago

Originally Posted by kilgore

Personally, I find the whole IM coach/mentor industry more than a little weird.

We aren't in the presence of the sharpest knives in the drawer. Stupidity keeps these kind of coaches in business.
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kpmedia

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kilgore

Personally, I find the whole IM coach/mentor industry more than a little weird. I can't think of any other type of business where so many people make a living (or at least try to make a living) teaching others how to start a business. If you have a successful restaurant, it's unlikely that you'll make your next entrepreneurial effort teaching would-be restauranteurs how to start a restaurant.

Therein lies the rub. A lot of "mentors" are just as clueless as the ones wanting information.

Furthermore, the "industry" (I just really have a problem calling it that most times) is full of narcissists. It's too often a cult of personality and name-dropping. And to most of us, the name-dropping is lame. Calling yourself a "mentor" is just for ego.

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kilgore

9 years ago

I agree with Big Frank that screenshots are easily faked. It's not to say that they're all faked, but even so...

Besides, even if they're legit, all they show is that someone else was able to make a bit of money -- but that says absolutely nothing about what you will be able to do. Mark Zuckerberg or Jeff Bezos could put up screenshots of how much they earn, but that doesn't mean even with their coaching any of us would have a shot in hell of making that sort of money.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems that most mentors/coaches sell a single system that worked for them (or at least they claim it worked for them), a system that even if it did work for them is very likely not going to work for you. Every business, every niche, and every human being is different and what works for one person in one situation may be a total flop for another and vice versa. Moreover, times change and what may have worked at one time may no longer work even for the same business, same niche and same people.

The key to being successful in business is being able to think for yourself and being able to adapt as you learn more about your customers and as market conditions change. While I've never had a mentor or a coach, I doubt very much anybody can teach you that. But what a mentor can help you with -- things like how to turn a good idea into a solid business plan -- can often be had for free at places like the SDBCs I've described. Sure you can pay someone to learn specific techniques, but as these techniques come and go, I just don't see the value.

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kk075

9 years ago

I had this discussion with another forum member recently in private, so here are my thoughts-

I average around $120k a year consulting with local clients, writing copy for a few major brands and fooling around with my local affiliate websites. Now, if I quit doing everything but focusing on local affiliate traffic, I could probably clear $60-80k this year and maybe $100-150k next year...which averages about the same money overall. So I haven't made that move yet to just doing my own thing; but it's a safer path to work on other's websites and help them optimize. Then again, if I had 30-40 strong affiliate sites in 5 years, I could be at $300-500k income...so I'm constantly debating with myself over that.

Talking to another member though, I thought, "What if I charged $500 a month, 10% profit share and took on 20 students and just worked with them full time?" I'd still be at my $120-150k mark and I could probably do a little bit of my own stuff on the side for even more money. So this definitely was worth considering until I realized that I'd have to sell, sell, sell my credentials and constantly find new students. Because even if I taught everyone exactly how to make great money online and tell them exactly what to do, my fate would be dependent on them following through and staying motivated to succeed.

And to me, that's an insane idea when I can just keep working on established sites/brands without the headaches. Then there's competing with all the frauds and scam artists...and it's just insane to try to build a business model around it unless that's the only way you can make real money.

For that reason, you won't find too many low priced "gurus" willing to take you on. Because if even half of what they promise is legitimate, then they can make much more money doing their own sites or working for larger brands and businesses.

I hope that helps.

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tapiatom

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kk075

I had this discussion with another forum member recently in private, so here are my thoughts-

I average around $120k a year consulting with local clients, writing copy for a few major brands and fooling around with my local affiliate websites. Now, if I quit doing everything but focusing on local affiliate traffic, I could probably clear $60-80k this year and maybe $100-150k next year...which averages about the same money overall. So I haven't made that move yet to just doing my own thing; but it's a safer path to work on other's websites and help them optimize. Then again, if I had 30-40 strong affiliate sites in 5 years, I could be at $300-500k income...so I'm constantly debating with myself over that.

Talking to another member though, I thought, "What if I charged $500 a month, 10% profit share and took on 20 students and just worked with them full time?" I'd still be at my $120-150k mark and I could probably do a little bit of my own stuff on the side for even more money. So this definitely was worth considering until I realized that I'd have to sell, sell, sell my credentials and constantly find new students. Because even if I taught everyone exactly how to make great money online and tell them exactly what to do, my fate would be dependent on them following through and staying motivated to succeed.

And to me, that's an insane idea when I can just keep working on established sites/brands without the headaches. Then there's competing with all the frauds and scam artists...and it's just insane to try to build a business model around it unless that's the only way you can make real money.

For that reason, you won't find too many low priced "gurus" willing to take you on. Because if even half of what they promise is legitimate, then they can make much more money doing their own sites or working for larger brands and businesses.

I hope that helps.

Well that sounds good but at the same time disappointing. It seems then in case mentorship was legit we would not have access to them at all unless we count with a huge bank account.

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kk075

9 years ago

Originally Posted by tapiatom

Well that sounds good but at the same time disappointing. It seems then in case mentorship was legit we would not have access to them at all unless we count with a huge bank account.

Yeah, I know that's not what you were hoping to hear...but I'd rather give an honest opinion than try to lead someone along. There are lots of amazing mentors out there but they have to earn a living too, and it doesn't make sense to stop making good money to teach others unless you have a very exclusive client list. Now, if I could get the contacts to teach executives at Fortune 500 companies Internet Marketing for $25-50k a month each, then that would be a different story. But that's something you have to build towards by promoting yourself for years...and I'd rather just keep writing and remain in the shadows.

Honestly, your best bet would be to skip the whole mentor angle and just find someone to work with...either as a job or a partnership. Just learn one skill in Internet Marketing (programming, writing, backlinks, networking, social, SEO, email marketing, media relations, brand building, etc...the list is a mile long) and find others who don't have that personally, then work on projects together.

For example, I am lousy with coding sites so I never build my own stuff...it makes more sense to partner with someone and focus what I'm good at. Or I'll find a great coder and offer to write all of his site's copy or an email string in exchange for building me a site, so we both win and we also both learn at the same time. All you need is one specific skill and then you can start building the same types of relationships....so find that one skill and master it.

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MrFume

9 years ago

Originally Posted by kk075

I had this discussion with another forum member recently in private, so here are my thoughts-

I average around $120k a year consulting with local clients, writing copy for a few major brands and fooling around with my local affiliate websites. Now, if I quit doing everything but focusing on local affiliate traffic, I could probably clear $60-80k this year and maybe $100-150k next year...which averages about the same money overall. So I haven't made that move yet to just doing my own thing; but it's a safer path to work on other's websites and help them optimize. Then again, if I had 30-40 strong affiliate sites in 5 years, I could be at $300-500k income...so I'm constantly debating with myself over that.

Talking to another member though, I thought, "What if I charged $500 a month, 10% profit share and took on 20 students and just worked with them full time?" I'd still be at my $120-150k mark and I could probably do a little bit of my own stuff on the side for even more money. So this definitely was worth considering until I realized that I'd have to sell, sell, sell my credentials and constantly find new students. Because even if I taught everyone exactly how to make great money online and tell them exactly what to do, my fate would be dependent on them following through and staying motivated to succeed.

And to me, that's an insane idea when I can just keep working on established sites/brands without the headaches. Then there's competing with all the frauds and scam artists...and it's just insane to try to build a business model around it unless that's the only way you can make real money.

For that reason, you won't find too many low priced "gurus" willing to take you on. Because if even half of what they promise is legitimate, then they can make much more money doing their own sites or working for larger brands and businesses.

I hope that helps.

Yes, you speak perfect sense - in my opinion, dealing with people must rank as being among the hardest of jobs, you only have to look at Teachers and their plight. Dealing with people trying to achieve very difficult outcomes that are unpredictable and dependent on them listening, taking in information and following through is reaching very difficult territory indeed. Always there will be those who seek to blame you, to hold you accountable for their progress when they simply do not possess the aptitude to work with online technologies, and think like a business person. The outcome is always unpredictable, unsure - even those who attain astronomical results often cannot tell you exactly why. Even if you do all the 'right things' it can fail.
So, yes it is far easier and probably better all round if you just seek your own path and follow your own stars.

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Internet Trillionaire

9 years ago

I currently charge $199 per month for ten months of online coaching, but if I offered a live event and my personal time is on the line in group or one on one coaching, then I would definitely charge $20.000.00. for my time.

I currently charge $17,997.00 per person for a V.I.P. day with me

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salegurus 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire

I currently charge $17,997.00 per person for a V.I.P. day with me

I hope that includes air fare to Cape Town.....
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MrFume

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire

I currently charge $199 per month for ten months of online coaching, but if I offered a live event and my personal time is on the line in group or one on one coaching, then I would definitely charge $20.000.00. for my time.

I currently charge $17,997.00 per person for a V.I.P. day with me

Out of those people that pay for the services, how many gain significant results?
Really it makes no difference to your progress if you spend large amounts, the spending does not guarantee you will be successful - it is Always a question of the person's aptitude, even if they make say 20k right out of the gate after being with you for a week - who is to say they will continue to prosper, and grow?
The mere act of paying for a mentor is no absolute surety of success, it is always down to you and your own mind-set, and ability.

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kk075 9 years ago

Originally Posted by MrFume

Out of those people that pay for the services, how many gain significant results?

From my experiences, less than 2%. And it's not just the knowledge that's a problem, it's the work ethic to put in the long hours and learn everything you can about a subject. Because a mentor can only teach so much; the student has to have the drive to take those ideas and work them 12 hours a day, 7 days a week until they're making big money.

Less than 2% of the world has that gene in them though, which is why I could never be a paid mentor. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that 98% of the expert knowledge I shared was wasted money for someone else...that would seriously bother me.
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bangwhosnext

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire

I currently charge $199 per month for ten months of online coaching, but if I offered a live event and my personal time is on the line in group or one on one coaching, then I would definitely charge $20.000.00. for my time.

I currently charge $17,997.00 per person for a V.I.P. day with me

Wow, you must be rolling in it with 36 'Likes' on your Facebook page.

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Riccur

9 years ago

If you pay for a mentorship then is it really mentoring? I think mentoring is something that does not have an exchange of money involved.

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TryBPO

9 years ago

Keep in mind that nobody's paying $5K, $10K, $40K or more for a mentor based on a few screenshots. They MIGHT be willing to pay for someone who has a legitimate track record of success that passes most of their sniff tests.

There's another reason people are willing to pay that kind of money that goes far beyond whatever "guru" is promoting the offer:

They get a seat at the table with other high-level entrepreneurs.

If I joined some membership or community that was "included" with my $7 ebook purchase, I can probably guess at the level of success those others in the community have had, on average.

If I'm paying $10K per year or more it's very likely I'm joining a much different community. (With people who are more likely to take it seriously)

Some of the best "gurus" aren't pimping their S#%$ via crappy sales pages and questionable screenshots. Instead, they're great at throwing parties and connecting the right people together in a room. (Or at a resort, on a cruise, etc.)

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Kai Law

9 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

Keep in mind that nobody's paying $5K, $10K, $40K or more for a mentor based on a few screenshots. They MIGHT be willing to pay for someone who has a legitimate track record of success that passes most of their sniff tests.

There's another reason people are willing to pay that kind of money that goes far beyond whatever "guru" is promoting the offer:

They get a seat at the table with other high-level entrepreneurs.

If I joined some membership or community that was "included" with my $7 ebook purchase, I can probably guess at the level of success those others in the community have had, on average.

If I'm paying $10K per year or more it's very likely I'm joining a much different community. (With people who are more likely to take it seriously)

Some of the best "gurus" aren't pimping their S#%$ via crappy sales pages and questionable screenshots. Instead, they're great at throwing parties and connecting the right people together in a room. (Or at a resort, on a cruise, etc.)

I concur and to chime in. Theres that quote "You are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time" The value of these higher level masterminds is that it forces you to think bigger. You are more open to the possibilities. They will help keep you accountable for your goals.

These people are normally already very successful and value their time. Hence why they require a higher level investment. The amount of money they charge is to eliminate the time wasters if you are serious about being successful you'll be willing to bite the bullet on the upfront cost. One piece of advice given at the right time can skyrocket your business. They'll be able to point out things that you may not realise yourself.

Any successful entrepreneurs had access to great mentors. In order to shortcut the process of talking to these people you need to pay to play.

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wasa1

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kai Law

I concur and to chime in. Theres that quote "You are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time" The value of these higher level masterminds is that it forces you to think bigger. You are more open to the possibilities. They will help keep you accountable for your goals.

These people are normally already very successful and value their time. Hence why they require a higher level investment. The amount of money they charge is to eliminate the time wasters if you are serious about being successful you'll be willing to bite the bullet on the upfront cost. One piece of advice given at the right time can skyrocket your business. They'll be able to point out things that you may not realise yourself.

Any successful entrepreneurs had access to great mentors. In order to shortcut the process of talking to these people you need to pay to play.

I totally believe in what you present, every entrepreneur out there has a mentor that has taken them to a level that they themselves had no idea was possible, It can quite logically be the fast track success they are endeavoring to take. Remember where you started from, was the information over whelming to the point of information overload, did that alone stop you in your tracks, a mentor can take you away from the information overload, and place you where the money is and on what tasks to complete each day to take you where you want to go, instead of losing hope in where do I start next, whats the next step.

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PPC-Coach 9 years ago

Originally Posted by TryBPO

They get a seat at the table with other high-level entrepreneurs.

That is the reason.

By the time you're paying for high ticket coaching, you're making decent money but not sure how to get to the next level. Here's the best part, you can do it without them but you're buying a mindset. When you surround yourself with people doing $10,000 a day, all of the sudden YOUR MIND says "that is possible".

Mindset is the most important thing when you start hitting big numbers. First you get lazy and go on cruise control, (believe me I still do that mistake), then you hit a down turn because you were lazy and have to fight back up again.

Being involved with guys who are making big bucks you see HOW MUCH THEY WORK. and you can compare that to your effort to gauge your income versus theirs. The guys doing boatloads of money are grinders. They work their tails off.

Now that isn't for everyone, you're right.

That's why I do the smaller fee stuff, to get the new guys in and on the right track. Unfortunately their mindsets are not in the right place most of the time, they're still believing the "autopilot" b.s. But some do realize things and succeed.

As for the good ole "those who can do, teach", that is not applicable to everyone. I don't need to "teach" but I enjoy it. It is a satisfaction that money cannot by. Money doesn't mean anything your happiness does. I grew up poor. Made a lot, lost a lot and keep coming back for more. Money doesn't make anyone happy, happiness makes you happy and you have to find where to get that happiness.

For some that's helping others. If you can make money WHILE helping others and achieve happiness that way then you just found your calling.
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Jouvan Johnson

9 years ago

Yeh some mentoring can go up to crazy prices
but having a good mentor can save you years
of trial and error

I would suggest people follow one proven method

earn some money then work your way up to getting
training from someone doing what you want to do

My criteria for a mentor is someone that makes a
killing doing what they are actually teaching

working in multiple niches and training is not their

main focus

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selfdisciplineacademy

9 years ago

They just value their time, very highly..

If you think about it, they can just make their own thousands,

And if they really deliver results like '$1000 per day income'

Then this isn't even that expensive.

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M Thompson 9 years ago

I always find these kinds of threads interesting, all i'll say is nearly every successful marketer (household name type of person) i know has a mentor.

I even know one really well who has 3 ... whenever I ask about them i am always told that they are worth every cent.

It's horses for courses, mentors are usually a short cut to a higher income but some people won't use them other will.

C'est la vie
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Winning34 9 years ago

Originally Posted by selfdisciplineacademy

They just value their time, very highly..

Yeah, I agree. They aren't doing it to get loads of clients. They're not bothered if 99.5% of people find their services too expensive, but when they do get a client, it is worth their while.

In the real world, I'm a fully qualified teacher (in education - nothing to do with IM) and sometimes I get asked if I do private tuition. Since it's something I'm trying to move away from, I quote them a very high hourly rate. Much higher than my competition. If they sign up, it's good money for me and if they don't, I'm happy because I can use my time for other projects I'm working on.
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.X.

9 years ago

When you're at the bottom of the ladder don't assume
you know the view from the top. Cynicism hurts you
more than you know.

First, I'm not here to sell coaching or a mastermind.

I can tell you, with certainty, that massive growth in
my business has directly correlated with being in a
quality mastermind group. When I haven't had the
support, that perspective, business has declined -
something I see clearly in retrospect.

Because of the reputation I've established I generally
have not needed to pay to be in a group, but if you
lack that then you need an asset to bring to the table.

A mastermind is NOT a one-way deal - everyone
needs to bring something to the table for it to work.

I can also tell you that coaching clients has lead to
more new business ideas and ventures than anything
else I do. It also helps me, as a product creator and
marketer, know first-hand what my customers want
and need.

And while it's unusual, yes, just two weeks ago a
30-minute coaching session I did with a client
resulted in him generating over $5,000 new income the
next week. I offered nothing more than a different
perspective on an asset he already had - cost to
him, $78.00.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be skeptical - I think
most "gurus" in IM are . . . people I don't choose
to work with. I've had crummy mastermind experiences
and crap coaching experiences with some supposedly
high-level people.

The idea of the mastermind comes from Think and
Grow Rich - countless people have used them to
accelerate their success, and many probably wouldn't
have without it. And coaching, if you choose the
right coach, gives you greater clarity and perspective.

It's possible people exaggerate claims and overvalue
what they offer - but it isn't about mastermind groups,
or coaching - it's about the people involved, which
includes you.

X

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ChrisWrok

9 years ago

Anyone that makes money at this game receives coaching.
Whether you pay for it or not is another thing.

I'm self taught but I sure have taken many lessons and bought many courses.

That said, compare it to going to school...

you can spend 4-5 years at university
OR
you can be mentored by someone actually doing it and winning,
and learn more in 1/2 a year or less than you can with theory only.

time vs money as always!

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jemacb

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ChrisWrok

Anyone that makes money at this game receives coaching.
Whether you pay for it or not is another thing.

I'm self taught but I sure have taken many lessons and bought many courses.

That said, compare it to going to school...

you can spend 4-5 years at university
OR
you can be mentored by someone actually doing it and winning,
and learn more in 1/2 a year or less than you can with theory only.

time vs money as always!

Totally agree with you there Chris.

Also, I am confident that these same mentors also hired mentors to coach them as well.

I think this is all about the mindset. If you think pennies you probably would make pennies. If you think big , you probably would achieve big results. But you MUST take action otherwise you are just wasting yours and your mentor's time.

The above being said, even well established B&M companies hire consulting firms to work with them. Consulting, which mentoring is really, is not only for the IM world.

My 2 cents....

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Raydal

9 years ago

If you suffer from "sticker shock" when you look at these prices then
there is one thing that you are missing. You are NOT paying for CONTENT
with these programs. You are paying for access to the resources that the
mentor already has which often includes his customer list.

For example, Dan Kennedy charges in the 40K range but when you get
access to that group of marketers other members help you out and you
end of onstage at a Dan Kennedy event--meaning more customers and
exposure for you.

so do you think these marketers are crazy to put up that kind of money
and don't get even MORE as a result? They are not stupid.

-Ray Edwards

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DubDubDubDot 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

Dan Kennedy charges in the 40K range

You'd have to be pretty gullible to believe anyone is paying that guy $40,000.
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- tapiatom 9 years ago
  
  Hey folks,
  
  Just chiming in to let you all know I have not abandoned this thread at all which has become as I wished an interesting one.
  
  I have not had the time to reply as still working my a$$ off at my 9-5 (it is actually more hours than that :-D) Hopefully next weekend I´ll be able to continue the discussion and probably will have some questions if you don´t mind.
  
  And yup...that´s pretty much my story...I am not one of those pitiful stories of somebody living in a car or trying to make ends meet BUT instead somebody tied to a full time job, that is ok but exhausting, and as all of us wanting to break free from the dreaded rat race most of the world is in. I just wanna spend more time with my old father and my wife and enjoy the rest of what´s left of my youth. I am turning 39 next week by the way.
  
  I am initially not looking to make thousands a day, I just need consistency...call it $30, $40...$100 per day but consistently. Some might think that is a very small goal, however with only $30 a day I would be making around the same I am making at my full time job atm.
  
  Now, that doesn´t mean that my ambitions end there but instead I would have an asset that to me is more important than money itself, and that is TIME! So in that case I would be able to focus on my IM endeavors more and perhaps eventually work harder and learn more to be able to earn more and more.
  
  Fortunately I live in a country where the exchange rate dollar-peso is very favorable, so initially a huge income is not required but having more time and save to invest on my IM education so I can do what I really feel like.
  
  Thank you guys very much for your PMs I´ll go through them when I find the time. I really appreciate those.
  
  God bless!
  
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James Hessler

9 years ago

I've never had an IM mentor, and maybe I should have. Someone to push me and pull me and help keep me on track. As a busking magician I started out around 17 years ago and attended a masterclass on how to work the streets busking.

Best money I ever spent ($300), as it helped me get better, a lot quicker.

Maybe I should listen to my past, ( in paying for the class ), to help pave the way for my future.

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outlawdawg

9 years ago

I have been fortunate to have a great mentor currently. I simply asked someone that I had respect for if they would be willing to be a mentor. The discussions that have followed have been very helpful.

I believe that many things are out there if you simply ask for them. Get over the fear and ask.

Brian Sharp
sharpemergencypreparedness.com

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IM Phoenix

9 years ago

Originally Posted by tapiatom

... Are there any mentors or coaches with perhaps not a very known coaching program but that will offer thorough help and feedback on the way to stand on your feet and only start with a modest income that would make a difference paying maybe a monthly membership of between $40 to $200?
...

Hi tapiatom,

I tried coaching from 2 different marketers in the past.

The first one was a total waste, not even having the
knowledge he claimed to have and recommending shady tactics.
The second was helpful but still cost a lot compared to what I got in return.
I actually learned a LOT from both experiences,
just not directly from the coaching.

Whether you call them coaches, tutors, teachers, guides, whatever-
the reason they work is because they help eliminate confusion,
provide direction, and keep you progressing toward your goals.
(The good ones, at least.)

Their purpose is to help you develop your talents to get better results,
just like the kind people hire for sports, studies, and a long list of other skills.

And even though it's the norm in this industry for established marketers
to charge insanely high prices for coaching, it actually does have a
positive effect because as a student you become more dedicated to
making that money back and more motivated to succeed.
(especially if you need that money for rent next month!

)

But when you need coaching the most you simply don't have thousands to spend on help.
Plus, you don't really know who to trust.

Here's the thing- having a coach can be immensely valuable,
but you don't have to pay for one.

Outlawdawg made a great suggestion-
Find someone successful, follow what they do and simply ask them for help when you need it.
You never know what you can get til you ask!

I'm gearing up to offer personal 1-on-1 guidance and would love to offer you a spot for free tapiatom.

Helping people is one of my life-long passions
and I believe having someone genuine on your side to help you
step by step is one of the most valuable resources you can have
in any profession, especially this one.

Offline my background is in psychology and counseling, and online
I have experience in plan creation, niche research, product creation,
sales funnel and list building, plus a bunch of other stuff.
If there's something that I can't help with,
I'll work with you to find a solution from someone who can.

Feel free to send me a PM and we'll see if we're a good match!

Bottom line, as long as you stay dedicated, focused,
and stick to a plan that's already proven to work,
you'll eventually reach success.

Keep moving forward no matter what!

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expressg

9 years ago

Getting a mentor who has earned a high reputation in IM is always a good idea. That said, I would never spend $40,000 on one though... Still a mentor can change your entire income situation if they bring a solid method to the table. But they're not just teaching you the method, they also have to teach you about managing costs, and the small details of your business that would often go overlooked.

Also any good mentor should not just accept money from anyone that they meet and claim to be able to teach them. Sometimes people don't work well together, they don't mesh. And sometimes some people are porous, what you have to say goes in one ear and out the other.

The mentor should talk with the potential student first, the two need to be able to work together, understand each other, and most importantly the mentor needs to be sure that the student is capable of not only implementing his teachings, but maintaining the upkeep and some times tedious day to day tasks of the business. Otherwise the mentor could teach them how to turn copper into solid gold, and the student will end up not following through with the upkeep, and lose the formula. This would result in the student losing their investment and most likely blaming the mentor for it. Harming the mentor's reputation and their business.

Any solid mentor would be sure that they can work with someone before taking that kind of money from them.

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ChrisBa

9 years ago

wow.. $10k, 20k, 40k, that sounds absolutely ridiculous. I can't imagine spending that much on a coach or mentor..

in the end, regardless of coach or mentor, it will always come down to you if you are going to be successful or not. If you put in the time and effort, you will likely succeed if you stick in it long enough. A good coach or mentor will help those people succeed faster (and cheaper) most of the time. But I still wouldn't pay those prices

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heavysm

9 years ago

Originally Posted by ChrisBa

wow.. $10k, 20k, 40k, that sounds absolutely ridiculous. I can't imagine spending that much on a coach or mentor..

in the end, regardless of coach or mentor, it will always come down to you if you are going to be successful or not. If you put in the time and effort, you will likely succeed if you stick in it long enough. A good coach or mentor will help those people succeed faster (and cheaper) most of the time. But I still wouldn't pay those prices

This was actually presented as a question to Dan Kennedy at one of his conferences. An attendee asked how one of Dan's friend can justify charging $25k for his coaching program.

Dan described how the program in question showed how to position oneself as a consultant for high end services such as surgeons, dentists and other services. The services provided to the business enables them to multiply their business 3 - 4x over the course of a year. The fee to charge each business is $25k spread over the course of a year. These are businesses already making good money, of course, so $25k over 12 months of payments is nothing to them.

So with just one client the program pays for itself. Anything beyond that first client is all profit.

Dan is notorious for charging high rates for his services, but that's nothing compared to other consultants such as Jay Abraham. I believe he's considered one of the highest paid business consultants. Many businesses would happily pay him $50+k for his consulting just because they'd be making that much more monthly in profit anyway. The fee is nothing when the result is so tremendous.

When considering mentors and consulting there must be a distinction made between biz opp coaches and real business consultants who charge real fees for their time because the results they produce are unquestionably profitable.

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ChrisBa

9 years ago

Originally Posted by heavysm

This was actually presented as a question to Dan Kennedy at one of his conferences. An attendee asked how one of Dan's friend can justify charging $25k for his coaching program.

Dan described how the program in question showed how to position oneself as a consultant for high end services such as surgeons, dentists and other services. The services provided to the business enables them to multiply their business 3 - 4x over the course of a year. The fee to charge each business is $25k spread over the course of a year. These are businesses already making good money, of course, so $25k over 12 months of payments is nothing to them.

So with just one client the program pays for itself. Anything beyond that first client is all profit.

Dan is notorious for charging high rates for his services, but that's nothing compared to other consultants such as Jay Abraham. I believe he's considered one of the highest paid business consultants. Many businesses would happily pay him $50+k for his consulting just because they'd be making that much more monthly in profit anyway. The fee is nothing when the result is so tremendous.

When considering mentors and consulting there must be a distinction made between biz opp coaches and real business consultants who charge real fees for their time because the results they produce are unquestionably profitable.

See I totally understand a business consultant charging a fee like that to an already blooming business and showing them how to optimize and increase their profits. But to charge that to an individual starting off and trying to create a business just doesn't seem like the best idea

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hardworker2013

9 years ago

People do purchase these high ticket programs based on the track record of the mentor.
Nothing beats results, and most of these mentors have the results of successful students to show.
Some of these top mentors like Anik Signal (one of my mentors) has a payment plan so it doesn't overburden your pocket.You just have to do a thorough research by using google to see what persons are saying and
to get some feedbacks.

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TryBPO

9 years ago

My business partner and I are in a community where, all-in, we pay around $4K per year in membership fees. (Probably closer to $6K if you consider flights, hotels, etc.) That's at a pretty low level, admittedly.

That being said, at the annual conference last year we were looking around the room and did some quick napkin math - $300K+ worth of business was done with customers in the room!

I have another buddy that's paying the $16K to spend a week with Richard Branson and other entrepreneurs at his private island. Now, for me, I'm not sure what value I'd be able to drum up at that event. (With RB being WAY above my level) Still - there are others who will find that really valuable.

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DoubleDi

9 years ago

There are a lot lot of coaches, but you have to be carefull about chosing them

Try to find some testimonials from their students, contact them and ask what is their optinion about that coach

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mrdeflation

9 years ago

I would love to pay a mentor/coach but no idea where to turn or who I can trust

Have a biz that does $100k+ and hit a complete brick wall, but all I can find is marketing companies when I need a product coach/strategist here..

Would love to pay a mentor that isnt a scammer, but someone who can list step by step what to do specifically, VERY specifically.

I am hoping one day I can pay someone with a proven track record =-(

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Slade556

9 years ago

^ This is actually a real problem. Everyone these days consider themselves to be gurus and know everything but the truth is, you actually risk a lot by paying someone you know nothing about to teach you something this important!

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kk075

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Slade556

^ This is actually a real problem. Everyone these days consider themselves to be gurus and know everything but the truth is, you actually risk a lot by paying someone you know nothing about to teach you something this important!

And that's the thing- there's no "proof" that will guarantee an investor success at any level. Because even if someone can show proof that they consistently make big money in their own venues, that doesn't mean they're a good teacher.. Likewise, if they've helped dozens of people become successful, that doesn't mean that you're going to be successful either...things like work ethic, developing ideas and dozens of other things also come into play. That's why I'm against mentors, or at least a IM mentor in the sense that it's being pitched on this forum.

Like I said in another post though, the best way to get a great mentor is by taking an internship or a partnership that knows about things that you want to learn. For example, I met with someone earlier this week that flips websites, but he's a lousy writer and never fully optimizes for maximum profit. So we're going to do a few projects together and we will both benefit without cash exchanging hands.

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Paying for Mentorship? Really?

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