CB Code: I am in SHOCK

[Paul Schlegel]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

As I said, for those of you who want to make your affiliates happy, the
above should do it.

For the rest of you, sorry for wasting your time.

LOL. Well put.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Jeremy, people who usually take the contrary stand are the ones doing the things that we're complaining about.

Or, then again, maybe we understand free market economics.

What happens to a vendor who hijacks affiliate commissions? The same thing that happens to a vendor whose products don't sell: the affiliates, looking at the ROI for this vendor, say "this product is not even paying the cost of the domain name!" and dump the vendor.

Problem solved. No standards required... no policies required... no terms of service required. It works for every affiliate program, everywhere. It's already working in every affiliate program everywhere.

I'm a big fan of freedom. I don't like telling people what they have to do. I like giving them the freedom to do whatever they like, so I get to see what kind of people they really are.

Remember two days ago, when I suggested a way vendors could save the referring affiliate for list opt-ins and use it in future mailings?

If you tell people they have to implement that system on their opt-ins, then seeing someone do it doesn't tell you anything about them. Everyone does that; they have to. But when you can do whatever you like, and you put the time and energy into doing that... well, that means something, doesn't it?

[warriortx]

Originally Posted by reelfat

Fernando,

Could be worse...they could have some Adsense on the page.

RF

I was thinking the same thing

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Or, then again, maybe we understand free market economics.

[C A Perez]

I'm new to all of this. It certainly is an eye opener. I particularly like Steven W.'s and JNFerree's comments.
Carlos

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Or, then again, maybe we understand free market economics.

Yeah, apparently in the same way that someone like the government sees it, maybe

Originally Posted by CDarklock

What happens to a vendor who hijacks affiliate commissions? The same thing that happens to a vendor whose products don't sell: the affiliates, looking at the ROI for this vendor, say "this product is not even paying the cost of the domain name!" and dump the vendor.

Why in the world should someone have to go through the BS of buying a domain name and promoting a product to find out that the owner is dishonest. On clickbank it is at the very least "accepted" by the majority that if you send a visitor to a sales page, your cookie is set for 60 days...not to mention to a certain extent by the written documentation on ClickBank. Even better, most of the products that have affiliate programs also spell this out in black and white.

I'm not real sure if you really believe the garbage you are spewing or if you are posting just to post. Either way, you are painting yourself as someone whose products I wouldn't touch with someone elses ten foot pole...If you get my drift.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Yeah, apparently in the same way that someone like the government sees it, maybe



Why in the world should someone have to go through the BS of buying a domain name and promoting a product to find out that the owner is dishonest. On clickbank it is at the very least "accepted" by the majority that if you send a visitor to a sales page, your cookie is set for 60 days...not to mention to a certain extent by the written documentation on ClickBank. Even better, most of the products that have affiliate programs also spell this out in black and white.

I'm not real sure if you really believe the garbage you are spewing or if you are posting just to post. Either way, you are painting yourself as someone whose products I wouldn't touch with someone elses ten foot pole...If you get my drift.

Jeremy, you're wasting your time.

I'll leave it at that.

[Damien Roche]

This is like directing somebody to a theme park, with your affiliate id on their t-shirt, then complaining when they don't go to a ride you get paid for.

If you don't like it, don't promote it. Simple.

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by Damien Roche

If you don't like it, don't promote it. Simple.

NO way.... I didn't even realise I could do that..

Thanks for saving me.

[Rezbi]

I wonder, if you had a product on clickbank and someone else sold it as an affiliate...

And the people who bought the product ended up on your list...

Would you take them off your list, or assume they are now part of your list?

Be honest.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

You know, I'm trying to be relaxed and groovy about this whole thing, but the attitude is really uncalled for.

This is a question of fundamental rights. I support the rights of people who do things I don't like, because that's exactly when you need to support those rights. Nobody needs to defend behaviour people like. You need to defend behaviour people find distasteful and offensive, or those fundamental rights start disappearing.

A vendor has the right to make whatever offer he wants to make, within the law and the affiliate program's terms of service. Even if it means you don't get a commission. And if you don't like that, you stop promoting his offer.

Likewise, as an affiliate, you have the right to promote that offer however you want - again,within the law and the affiliate program's terms of service. And that's where you earn your commission: the way you promote.

It is a dangerous precedent to suggest that those rights need to be restricted.

[Nikhil V Nair]

Let me share my thoughts.Split the whole list in to 2 parts

1) list generated by the vendor (no affiliate)
2) list generated by the affiliates


Vendor can promote what ever he wants to his own list but NOT to the list generated by affiliates.If he wants to do it,the affiliate also deserve a portion of the commission from that different product.

Just my thoughts

[talfighel]

Originally Posted by Nikhil V Nair

Let me share my thoughts.Split the whole list in to 2 parts

1) list generated by the vendor (no affiliate)
2) list generated by the affiliates


Vendor can promote what ever he wants to his own list but NOT to the list generated by affiliates.If he wants to do it,the affiliate also deserve a portion of the commission from that different product.

Just my thoughts

That is what should happen everytime.

Tal

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Trying to force vendors to maintain 2 lists - their own and affiliate without every promoting other stuff to the affiliate list is too much to ask.

If the vendor includes your hoplink in the initial emails to the prospect and tries to sell his product to them, in my opinion they have fulfilled their end of the agreement.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

You know, I'm trying to be relaxed and groovy about this whole thing, but the attitude is really uncalled for.

This is a question of fundamental rights. I support the rights of people who do things I don't like, because that's exactly when you need to support those rights. Nobody needs to defend behaviour people like. You need to defend behaviour people find distasteful and offensive, or those fundamental rights start disappearing.

A vendor has the right to make whatever offer he wants to make, within the law and the affiliate program's terms of service. Even if it means you don't get a commission. And if you don't like that, you stop promoting his offer.

Likewise, as an affiliate, you have the right to promote that offer however you want - again,within the law and the affiliate program's terms of service. And that's where you earn your commission: the way you promote.

It is a dangerous precedent to suggest that those rights need to be restricted.

CD, technically, you are absolutely right. As long as you are within the
law you can do anything you like.

However, how many affiliates do you think somebody is actually going to
keep promoting their products if.

1. They force an opt in just to see the sales page.
2. Follow up the opt in with an email promoting another product
3. Never even try to convert the initial product being pitched

I for one would never promote such a product and if I have to say so
myself, I'm a pretty darn good affiliate marketer. Just ask the Nitro Boys,
Dean Shainin or Alvin Yuang.

So yeah, if you want to reduce the number of affiliates you're going to
get promoting your stuff (unless you can come up with a damn good
reason why they should) then by all means, do it this way.

For me, it isn't so much about ethics or about what people should
and shouldn't do.

It's about not biting the hand that feeds you.

To me...that's just plain stupid.

But hell, what do I know? I'm just another successful affiliate marketer
who could make anybody with a decent product that I believe in a few
grand.

This whole thread just totally boggles my mind.

[Jason Dolman]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Trying to force vendors to maintain 2 lists - their own and affiliate without every promoting other stuff to the affiliate list is too much to ask.

If the vendor includes your hoplink in the initial emails to the prospect and tries to sell his product to them, in my opinion they have fulfilled their end of the agreement.

Does the vendor not use some sort of enticement to get the prospect to provide their email address?

Does this enticement not serve the purpose of trying to sell the product to them or do you require additional attempts through autoresponder?

As others have suggested... if you have a problem with this, don't promote the offer.

If you don't want to waste effort promoting the offer to find this out... ask the vendor directly.

If they don't respond they're probably not the type of vendor you want to work with anyways.



Jason

[Jason Dolman]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

CD, technically, you are absolutely right. As long as you are within the law you can do anything you like.

However, how many affiliates do you think somebody is actually going to
keep promoting their products if.

1. They force an opt in just to see the sales page.
2. Follow up the opt in with an email promoting another product
3. Never even try to convert the initial product being pitched

So yeah, if you want to reduce the number of affiliates you're going to
get promoting your stuff (unless you can come up with a damn good
reason why they should) then by all means, do it this way.

You and he are saying the same thing Steven.

Free market economics: Free market - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A free market is a term that economists use to describe a market which is free from economic intervention and regulation by government, other than protection of property rights.

Basically... the market itself dictates what is and is not sold, leaving each individual free to decide which items they wish to sell and purchase.

In the case of affiliate marketing, the person making the buy/sell decision is the affiliate marketer who is free to decide for themselves whether or not to promote the offer.

If a large number of affiliates choose not to promote products that fit into your 3 criteria listed above, they will lose their position to the offers that are being promoted.

If a large number of affiliates choose to continue promoting these products, then the minority can still have the free choice of seeking out offers that do not fit your criteria.


Jason

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Jason Dolman

You and he are saying the same thing Steven.

Free market economics: Free market - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A free market is a term that economists use to describe a market which is free from economic intervention and regulation by government, other than protection of property rights.

Basically... the market itself dictates what is and is not sold, leaving each individual free to decide which items they wish to sell and purchase.

In the case of affiliate marketing, the person making the buy/sell decision is the affiliate marketer who is free to decide for themselves whether or not to promote the offer.

If a large number of affiliates choose not to promote products that fit into your 3 criteria listed above, they will lose their position to the offers that are being promoted.

If a large number of affiliates choose to continue promoting these products, then the minority can still have the free choice of seeking out offers that do not fit your criteria.


Jason

Yeah, I understand that, but isn't it stupid to do things that are going
to piss affiliates off?

I mean does this make any sense at all?

I swear, I feel like I'm in the freaking Twilight Zone today.

We're not saying the same thing.

CD's saying it's okay. I'm saying it's dumb.

Now maybe he personally thinks it's dumb (unless you don't want
affiliates) but so far hasn't actually said how he personally feels about
vendors who do this. Personally, I'd love to know if he thinks it's dumb or
not.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by Jason Dolman

Does the vendor not use some sort of enticement to get the prospect to provide their email address?

Of course

Originally Posted by Jason Dolman

Does this enticement not serve the purpose of trying to sell the product to them or do you require additional attempts through autoresponder?

Well, if they opt-into the list instead of buying the product, other than autoresponder, how else would they sell the product?

Originally Posted by Jason Dolman

As others have suggested... if you have a problem with this, don't promote the offer.

I don't - As a matter of fact, there is only one Warrior here that can say I have ever promoted his Clickbank Product and that is a template from BlueSquares. Dude is as honest as the sky is blue.

Originally Posted by Jason Dolman

If you don't want to waste effort promoting the offer to find this out... ask the vendor directly.

Sounds easy, doesn't it? Unfortunately, when many vendors respond, they do so with a cookie cutter response that goes something like this:

The opt-in is there to give us as many chances as possible to sell the visitor the product. As you know a Clickbank cookie stays in place for 60 days so, if they buy the product in the next 2 months you get credit!

Yet, when the email the visitor their own affiliate link is strangely there.

In all honesty, I could care less what anyone does with their list, because I don't promote many other peoples stuff.

But, here is kind of a counter argument

Frank Kern is launching Mass Control 3.0 and all the big dawgs jump on the launch. They are emailing their list frantically sending them to Franks squeeze page. Frank captures all the emails, right?

Now what if he decided to say screw you guys! I'm overwriting your cookie and taking all the sales for myself!

Fair game? After all, it is now his list right?

Now lets say, He relaunches mass control 2.0 and again all the big dawgs start hammering their lists and frank again collects all the email addresses. Now he says screw this, Eban Pegan is releasing a new product, I think I'll stop promoting Mass control and try to sell all these people his product instead!

I'm willing to bet That there would be a whole lot of product creators with big lists out their crying like little........well, you get the idea.

[BillyBee]

Steven Wagenheim writes:
<<<This whole thread just totally boggles my mind.>>>

Steven, your one sentence sums up this entire topic, completely.

Are you kidding me --- the original poster of this thread claims to be a full-time marketer and it never occurs to him that he's driving traffic to someone ELSE'S website?

And he never saw the opt-in form on the merchant's site . . . and he doesn't connect the dots that it's hooked up to an autoresponder.

Any outrage on this topic is laughable.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Now maybe he personally thinks it's dumb (unless you don't want affiliates) but so far hasn't actually said how he personally feels about vendors who do this. Personally, I'd love to know if he thinks it's dumb or not.

As a vendor, I think it's amazingly stupid. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the more commissions your product generates for your affiliates, the more your affiliates will promote you, and the more affiliates you will have.

Every commission you hijack is a commission you didn't give to an affiliate. You could have given it to an affiliate, but you didn't. Instead of developing a better relationship with your affiliates, you chose to take some quick cash. It's not even that much cash. That's shortsighted and stupid.

But you have every right to do it. (Within the boundaries of law and the terms of service for your affiliate program, of course.)

As an affiliate, I don't care what you (Ed. for clarity: you-the-vendor) do. You can make whatever offers you like, and I don't give a toss. All I care about is my bottom line and my ROI. If you're not generating enough commissions into my account, I'll just go promote something else. I'm not particularly attached to how well your product converts; there's a lot of them about.

[Jason Dolman]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Sounds easy, doesn't it? Unfortunately, when many vendors respond, they do so with a cookie cutter response that goes something like this:

The opt-in is there to give us as many chances as possible to sell the visitor the product. As you know a Clickbank cookie stays in place for 60 days so, if they buy the product in the next 2 months you get credit!

Yet, when the email the visitor their own affiliate link is strangely there.

If this has happened to you, I suggest you report the offending affiliate and move onto promoting someone else.

That aside... this concern was not brought up by the OP... their concern was with the speed with which the vendor was promoting other offers.

Although I agree you have a valid point, it's probably best you save it for it's own thread.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

But, here is kind of a counter argument

Frank Kern is launching Mass Control 3.0 and all the big dawgs jump on the launch. They are emailing their list frantically sending them to Franks squeeze page. Frank captures all the emails, right?

Now what if he decided to say screw you guys! I'm overwriting your cookie and taking all the sales for myself!

Fair game? After all, it is now his list right?

Not comparing apples to apples.

The OP wasn't talking about overwriting cookies, that's a topic you decided to bring into the discussion - RIGHT HERE: CB Code: I am in SHOCK

If it's happening to you... stop promoting the offer... tell the affiliate network about it... move on. Complaining about it isn't going to change it... unfortunately.

Nobody is saying it's an okay thing to do, please stop bringing it into this poor man's thread.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Now lets say, He relaunches mass control 2.0 and again all the big dawgs start hammering their lists and frank again collects all the email addresses. Now he says screw this, Eban Pegan is releasing a new product, I think I'll stop promoting Mass control and try to sell all these people his product instead!

I'm willing to bet That there would be a whole lot of product creators with big lists out their crying like little........well, you get the idea.

You're getting a little bit closer... but still talking about something else.

The OP sent his traffic to a sales page for a live product, not a pre-launch as you're supposing. Once again... apples and oranges.


Jason

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Jason,

The conversation has progressed far beyond where the OP started it

The scary thing is apparently even the situation that I described and that you quoted - Some feel that is an ok scenario.

Honest to god, nothing that we have talked about in this thread affects me one way or the other...I'm more talking about things that I have seen in the CB marketplace as a way to kind of tell people to know what they are promoting before they promote it.

[yves]

I agree that once the customer has been offerered the product in at least one email from the vendor's autoresponder then that should be that. The customer always has the option of going back to the original site where the hoplinked was clicked.

However, I am glad the OP brought this up because it made me check something out with a product I have been promoting which hasn't been going too well even though I get a lot of traffic. The vendor's site has a free mini course that the cust can take before buying the product and the affiliates are encouraged to use the free course with their promotion.

The mini course is 6 email lessons spanning over a week.

I opted in with my link just to check that my hop is kept till the end of the course. Unbelievably, I found that the hop is only kept till the second lesson of the course with the other lessons sending the customer to the site using the vendors own link.

I actually couldn't believe it. I have sent so much traffic his way and have only had a handful of sales from customer who prob didn't take the free course.

This way the vendor seems to be keeping up his end of the deal, but when it really matters I get no chance of a sale with the free course.

The vendor also sends out a newletters every few days at the same time as the free course promoting the same product without my link. I wasn't even too bothered about that I just wanted my hop to be in the free course.

I'm livid cos I put so much work into it.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

As a vendor, I think it's amazingly stupid. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the more commissions your product generates for your affiliates, the more your affiliates will promote you, and the more affiliates you will have.

Every commission you hijack is a commission you didn't give to an affiliate. You could have given it to an affiliate, but you didn't. Instead of developing a better relationship with your affiliates, you chose to take some quick cash. It's not even that much cash. That's shortsighted and stupid.

But you have every right to do it. (Within the boundaries of law and the terms of service for your affiliate program, of course.)

As an affiliate, I don't care what you (Ed. for clarity: you-the-vendor) do. You can make whatever offers you like, and I don't give a toss. All I care about is my bottom line and my ROI. If you're not generating enough commissions into my account, I'll just go promote something else. I'm not particularly attached to how well your product converts; there's a lot of them about.

OK, then I guess actually (as weird as this may sound) we're on the
same page as one poster put it.

I guess it makes it easier to separate those who you want to do business
with from those who you want to stay as far away from as possible.

Cool.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

OK, then I guess actually (as weird as this may sound) we're on the same page as one poster put it.

Since I know you're a software guy, you may appreciate the sentiment that drives a lot of my philosophy: "UNIX doesn't stop you from doing stupid things, because that would stop you from doing clever things."

[Kim Standerline]

Now I do think that is unfair and underhand (and dishonest)

Originally Posted by yves

I opted in with my link just to check that my hop is kept till the end of the course. Unbelievably, I found that the hop is only kept till the second lesson of the course with the other lessons sending the customer to the site using the vendors own link.

I just can't see how affiliates would expect a vendor to keep one affiliates ID in a back up email (especially if they have more than one affiliate) this is a problem with cookies etc being wiped by prospective customers. However I do think they should be sending out just a basic link (not their own ID) so an affiliate can pick up the sale.

Kim

[Jason Dolman]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Jason,

The conversation has progressed far beyond where the OP started it

I agree... but do you agree that it's progressed into the direction of overwriting cookies, stealing affiliate sales, and promoting "better than the real offer" free reports to generate emails as a result of your decision to direct it that way?

As I said... you have valid points. Why wouldn't you start your own thread to discuss them?

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

The scary thing is apparently even the situation that I described and that you quoted - Some feel that is an ok scenario.

I don't see anyone in this thread who said they felt OK with that scenario.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Honest to god, nothing that we have talked about in this thread affects me one way or the other...I'm more talking about things that I have seen in the CB marketplace as a way to kind of tell people to know what they are promoting before they promote it.

That's very noble of you. I appreciate you warning people (especially the ones who don't even know they need to be warned). But once again.... own thread, no?

Maybe I'm being picky here... and I apologize if that's your impression... but I don't think it's appropriate for you to use this thread to push your own agenda, no matter how "from the heart" it might be.



Jason

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Sure thing Jason, I'll start "My own" thead about this right away!

Might as well start one to find out which auto-responder is better too or maybe one to find out if anyone has made money with article marketing?

Everything that was talked about in this thread revolved around what clickbank vendors do to a visitor once they got someone on a list and whether or not the affiliate gets credit. Damn! Another thread I need to start...How long does a clickbank Cookie stay good?

Man, I'm going to flood the General Discussion today!

I have a good idea...Maybe you could start another thread to talk about when to start another thread? That would be very helpful.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Sure thing Jason, I'll start "My own" thead about this right away!

Might as well start one to find out which auto-responder is better too or maybe one to find out if anyone has made money with article marketing?

Everything that was talked about in this thread revolved around what clickbank vendors do to a visitor once they got someone on a list and whether or not the affiliate gets credit. Damn! Another thread I need to start...How long does a clickbank Cookie stay good?

Man, I'm going to flood the General Discussion today!

I have a good idea...Maybe you could start another thread to talk about when to start another thread? That would be very helpful.

Jeremy, do I detect a hint of sarcasm in this post?

It's hard to tell since you're name isn't Harvey.

[Jason Dolman]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Sure thing Jason, I'll start "My own" thead about this right away!

Might as well start one to find out which auto-responder is better too or maybe one to find out if anyone has made money with article marketing?

Man, I'm going to flood the General Discussion today!

I have a good idea...Maybe you could start another thread to talk about when to start another thread? That would be very helpful.

Dude... no need to feel hurt. You've been hijacking this thread since the first page.

Post #9 - overwriting cookies/not setting cookies == "they overwrite my cookie, don't set the cookie at all, promote them stuff that I don't get credit for.... Screw them."

BTW... the tone of that post sounds like a lot more than just concern about your fellow affiliates being screwed over.

Post #33 - cheating vendors == "there are plenty of morons out there trying everything in the book that they can to "get over"

Post #39 - opt-in enticement == "that would be valid almost if some of these vendors "free report" wasn't more appealing than the actual product"

Post #46 - opt-in enticement & high ticket backends == "they sell a $47 product on clickbank - Throw up an opt-in that gives away a "how to make 10K while you sleep report" so, you opt-in. They then send you an email promoting Guru Y's $997 course with their affiliate info..."

.... and that's just the first page.

These topics where not part of the discussion until you made them a part of it.

As I said... you have some valid points... valid enough to deserve their own thread.

I agree the GD gets bogged down with tons of similar threads which is even more of a reason to set your thoughts aside in their own thread.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Everything that was talked about in this thread revolved around what clickbank vendors do to a visitor once they got someone on a list and whether or not the affiliate gets credit. Damn! Another thread I need to start...How long does a clickbank Cookie stay good?

While you're response about how everything talked about in this thread revolved around what CB vendors do to a visitor once they get someone on a list is true, so is the fact that the discussion was pushed into that direction by your hijacking of it { proof above }.

Unless the CB Code vendor has done these things, I don't understand how they fit into a discussion about how the CB Code vendor shocked the OP by quickly promoting another product after getting people on their list or different strategies on how to deal with the situation.

And since we can both agree it was you who brought overwriting cookies, stealing affiliate sales, and promoting "better than the real offer" free reports into the discussion... I don't see how it's an unreasonable thing to suggest you discuss those topics elsewhere.



Jason

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Jason, what's your point?

Yes, I brought up a lot of stuff in this thread that some clickbank vendors do, are you one of them? Because you sure seem to take it personal.

I'm not really concerned with whether you feel that I hijacked this thread or not. I brought some things up and others responded to them. Maybe if you have enough free time, you can send them all PM's and lecture them about thread hijacking.

Everything that I've said in this thread was one of two things.

1. Related to opt-in forms with relation to clickbank vendors
2. Addressing something that someone else said.

If you can find one other person in the IM niche whose product I've promoted on this forum other than BlueSquares, I'll eat your shorts - So, no - It doesn't affect me one bit.

I look forward to YOUR next attempt to hijack this thread.

I've got to run now, I have about 12 threads to start to satisfy your sense of forum etiquette.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

I officially can't participate in this thread anymore. lol

There is a difference between using your subscribers however you want and overwriting or not including your affiliates cookie in your follow up for your product. I don't understand how some people can't understand the difference between the 2.

[Kim Standerline]

I think it's probably because a number of us have become completely confused Jeremy about what the thread is actually adressing (I know I have)

Kim

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I officially can't participate in this thread anymore. lol

There is a difference between using your subscribers however you want and overwriting or not including your affiliates cookie in your follow up for your product. I don't understand how some people can't understand the difference between the 2.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I'm not really concerned with whether you feel that I hijacked this thread or not.

I know you don't really care what I think , but it doesn't seem to me like you hijacked the thread at all. It migrated from "vendors do this" to "what vendors should be doing." We may disagree on the specifics of that, but we do seem to agree that it's a related and relevant discussion.

[talfighel]

Clearly, there are people here who claim to be Internet marketers. Maybe they have been doing this for a while or are complete NEWBIES. I am not too sure but I am amazed at how some some of these IMers don't have a clue what I was referring to in this LONG thread.

People should read and understand the topic before posting their comments and have NO CLUE what this or any other thread is all about.

I am about to stop posting here in this thread because SOME people are..............and you know the rest.

Tal

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by 2b1ask1

Jeremy...

... Should I take a hint?

Are you ignoring me?

Help desk ticket #455207.

No, not at all

I'm getting through them. Don is on vacation so, just taking me a little longer

[Kim Standerline]

It's a shame that some of the poster's in this thread seem to have thought it neccesary to "attack" Jeremy whom after all has only done what everyone else has done and given his opinion.

Tal your OP came across (to me anyway) as being surprised and disgusted etc that a marketer would dare to offer something else to a prospect that had joined his list through your efforts.

As someone who has been in this biz for a number of years, I'll tell you how I work the affiliate game.

For a huge launch (as we had with easymemberpro a couple of years ago) for the first 2 weeks the affiliate who sent the first prospect got the sale. This was important because we had some big affiliates on board who were warming their lists up and I think that's only fair. After the 2 weeks were up, we changed it to last affiliate. (My usual model). Obviously if you use CB you don't have that luxury of doing this which is why a decent affiliate script is so important and you need to be careful if you are promoting your stuff via CB. (I've only recently started using it for my membership book).

Yes I invariably use an opt in on my sales page, (I'm an Internet marketer remember) and it's important that I try and build my list as much as I can so I'll offer something juicy to try and entice that person to join my list.

I think the next bit is where I'm getting confused. The way I read it, you're really pissed because I'm going to start marketing to that prospect without your affiliate ID. (Though I'm not sure why you would think I should use your ID rather than any other affiliates). I would use just the usual URL (with no affiliate ID) and hope that the prospect is still cookied with the ID of the affiliate who sent them.

The thing is, I'm not responsible for the cookie killers that people have on their computers. If the affiliate doesn't get the sale under these circumstances, how on earth can it possibly be my fault?

Now if your argument is that I'm marketing (in a follow up autoresponder series) a competitive product with my own ID then yes you are perfectly right and that is reprehensible and the vendor should be taken out at Dawn and hung drawn and quartered!!

At the end of the day I see this as a two way thing, you send me the prospect to buy my product, I reward you by paying you the promised % of the sale.

That prospect then becomes mine and further down the line I am quite at liberty to try and sell them something else, either another of my own products or something I'm affiliating for that I think they may be interested in.

Once I've paid you for the sale, I don't owe you as an affiliate anything else. Unfortunately as I've said previously the affiliate system often falls down because of the cookie killers some people have on their machines. This is completely beyond my control.

There is also the instances where folks will deliberately delete the ID link, these people will then either exchange it for their own, or for some weird reason can't see why someone else would profit from a purchase they have made. (And I know the latter happens).

With EMP I made the decision to disallow folks to buy from their own affiliate link just so we could prevent the original affiliate from getting screwed.

That's where I come from when marketing to others anyway, and I make no apologies for it

Cheers
Kim

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Kim Standerline

It's a shame that some of the poster's in this thread seem to have thought it neccesary to "attack" Jeremy whom after all has only done what everyone else has done and given his opinion.

...

That's where I come from when marketing to others anyway, and I make no apologies for it

Cheers
Kim

Kim, I couldn't have put it any better. One of the most sensible posts in
this whole mess.

[Gregg Montgomery]

The way I see it, when you got paid for the sale you were paid for the time and effert and everything else you put in to it to get the sale. So in effect you were paid for the lead.

Thats just the way the system works. Might not be fully fair but thats the way it is.