A NEW Angle Now with the $1 Trial CD and Forced Continuity

[DennisM]

Hi All,

Not sure if anyone has noticed a new trend with the $1 CD trial and monthly continuity game.

What's happening is that I notice a few marketers are NOT ACCEPTING PayPal as a payment processor. They want a real credit card instead. This means you can no longer generate a one time use credit card number with the PayPal plugin. This, of course, avoids the cancellation issue because either the buyer forgets to cancel or the marketer doesn't honor the request in a timely manner.

Now I personally won't waste my time on a continuity trial if I know upfront that I won't give it a try for a month but I'm sure others do this.

Thanks for reading. Any comments appreciated.

Dennis

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Just get a pre-paid...

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by DennisM

What's happening is that I notice a few marketers are NOT ACCEPTING PayPal as a payment processor. They want a real credit card instead. This means you can no longer generate a one time use credit card number with the PayPal plugin. This, of course, avoids the cancellation issue because either the buyer forgets to cancel or the marketer doesn't honor the request in a timely manner.

Yes you can. They don't know it's a one-time number.

[Robyn8243]

Originally Posted by DennisM

Hi All,

Not sure if anyone has noticed a new trend with the $1 CD trial and monthly continuity game.

What's happening is that I notice a few marketers are NOT ACCEPTING PayPal as a payment processor. They want a real credit card instead. This means you can no longer generate a one time use credit card number with the PayPal plugin. This, of course, avoids the cancellation issue because either the buyer forgets to cancel or the marketer doesn't honor the request in a timely manner.

Now I personally won't waste my time on a continuity trial if I know upfront that I won't give it a try for a month but I'm sure others do this.

Thanks for reading. Any comments appreciated.

Dennis

I never heard of one time use credit card number with PayPal plugin.

Can you elaborate Dennis?

Thanks,
Robyn

[sbucciarel]

They're great ... I think everyone ought to sign up for all the continuity scam products using Paypal one-time credit cards and sell the crap on Ebay or something. It's about time they got scammed instead of scamming the customers with their ripoff continuity programs with the continuity part so well hidden that the buyer doesn't have a clue that he's going to be ripped off over and over and over again.

[Intrepreneur]

Originally Posted by DennisM

Hi All,
What's happening is that I notice a few marketers are NOT ACCEPTING PayPal as a payment processor. They want a real credit card instead. This means you can no longer generate a one time use credit card number with the PayPal plugin.

This sounds interesting, I hate giving my details over the web and sometimes I can't get my top-up card topped up right away.

I'd like to hear more.

[davemiz]

you guys should really be ashamed of yourselves.... immediately you think $1 trial with continuity is a scam which is a real shame, ESPECIALLY since you guys are supposed to be marketers.

so now every single company who does a trial with continuity is a scam?

cmon. thats absurd.

btw the smart marketers don't accept prepaid, they know customers who do this are looking to take advantage of them.

they all have 800#'s you can call to cancel, you can also cancel via your bank, and you have no worries.

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

They're great ... I think everyone ought to sign up for all the continuity scam products using Paypal one-time credit cards and sell the crap on Ebay or something. It's about time they got scammed instead of scamming the customers with their ripoff continuity programs with the continuity part so well hidden that the buyer doesn't have a clue that he's going to be ripped off over and over and over again.

Oh come on. Yes, some people bury the continuity terms in small print. But not the majority. Almost every one of those offers I've seen states very plainly (often in a video) that they're giving you the $1 whatever as an incentive to try the continuity program.

And honestly, if it isn't clear to you why they're making the $1 offer maybe you should do a little more due dilligence. If something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

REGARDLESS...

People who sign on for those offers with the intent of getting the $1 whatever and never honestly evaluating the continuity offer are just as much scammers as the few bad apples who do continuity programs the wrong way. (<---Run on sentence for effect. )

The golden rule is a 2 way street.

[MichaelHiles]

So, when you subscribe to a magazine (the original continuity program) it is a scam?

Are paid subscriptions to premium content email newsletters, say from Dan Kennedy, scams?

I think it's a mighty broad brush stroke to call all people who offer continuity programs scammers.

In fact, if the marketer knows their stuff, the free or $1 CD or DVD you get is going to be a very detailed explanation of the WHAT and none of the HOW, which you can only get from the continuity program.

The guys who are hiding their continuity programs from their customers are the ones getting nailed by the FTC. Who would want to get popped for a onetime shot and never again ever be able to earn a red cent in internet marketing?

[garyk1968]

I agree you cant tar all with the same brush but regarding CC membership I normally stay clear. I actually got burned by a very high profile launch a couple of years back, I wont mention it but if I did you will all have heard of it. I tried to cancel but was given the excuse that the cancellation email was never received. I had to threaten action via the card company and in the end we settled for a 50% off the month I was billed for and left it that. I was still left quite out of pocket and vowed not to do it again. At least with paypal you can cancel the subscription easily enough.

[Robyn8243]

Originally Posted by Lance K

Oh come on. Yes, some people bury the continuity terms in small print. But not the majority. Almost every one of those offers I've seen states very plainly (often in a video) that they're giving you the $1 whatever as an incentive to try the continuity program.

And honestly, if it isn't clear to you why they're making the $1 offer maybe you should do a little more due dilligence. If something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

REGARDLESS...

People who sign on for those offers with the intent of getting the $1 whatever and never honestly evaluating the continuity offer are just as much scammers as the few bad apples who do continuity programs the wrong way. (<---Run on sentence for effect. )

The golden rule is a 2 way street.

Lance:

I 100% agree with you that if you were to buy a $1 trial with the intent to absolutely cancel...and then resell it to boot, you would be wrong.

I also agree that trials with continuity are a valid business model.

However, there are companies who make it impossible to cancel...it is not that they are hiding the continuity aspect.

If I see an offer for $1 trial, and the option to continue, it is reasonable for me to
believe that the manufacturer has enough faith in their product that once I try it, I will continue to reorder. From a business standpoint if the product is good, that makes total sense....not too good to be true. But, it should be simple for me to cancel if the
product doesn't measure up.

I have become a regular customer as a result of more than one trial offer. I also have
had two "impossible to cancel" scenarios....where I needed to cancel using chargeback method. For people who order with debit cards these kinds of offers can wreak havoc when the company is one of the bad guys.

Unfortunately, the few bad apples are making many people view this whole model in a negative light.

People who feel they have been scammed tend to be a lot more vocal than people who are happy with their transactions.

Robyn

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by Robyn8243

However, there are companies who make it impossible to cancel...it is not that they are hiding the continuity aspect.

Robyn,

Use the words "charge back" in your correspondence with the company and apply a deadline to when you will procede.

[DennisM]

Originally Posted by davemiz

you guys should really be ashamed of yourselves.... immediately you think $1 trial with continuity is a scam which is a real shame, ESPECIALLY since you guys are supposed to be marketers.

so now every single company who does a trial with continuity is a scam?

cmon. thats absurd.

btw the smart marketers don't accept prepaid, they know customers who do this are looking to take advantage of them.

they all have 800#'s you can call to cancel, you can also cancel via your bank, and you have no worries.

Dave,

I certainly agree with you. As I stated, I personally would not go with a $1 trial unless I was serious about giving the program an honest look for a month.

Regards,
Dennis

[Marian Berghes]

Personally, once you start making some good cash I think its time to switch to your own merchant account and get rid of paypal...

And 1 of the biggest reasons I said that is that once you start accepting only credit cards you will have a list of REAL ADDRESSES, and theres no spam filter or ISP problems with direct mail

And like some others have said...how can you call yourself a marketer if you have that mentality?

Only a very small portion of the people that offer continuity do it in a shady way...and if you think that continuity is "evil" you might wanna start looking for another career.

[Fernando Veloso]

Guys, remember this:

The FTC is cracking on these scams cause they EXIST.

Don't pretend they are a small % - if they were that small you wouldn't notice the FTC cracking them, would you?

More and more rookies are doing it right now with flogs cause they know they can get away (not far actually) and make quick cash.

It's a real problem and it's getting bigger everyday.

Finally, I have no problem with this method with IMers I trust. But not everyone has the knowledge I do - and those get scammed.

Just my 2 cents.

[Marian Berghes]

The whole FTC crackdown thing started because of all the Acai, Colon and all that sht...FTC doesn't give a SH!T about Joe Joe whos making 50$ a day promoting Acai or some stuff with fake testimonials, what can they get from him?...they go after the big fishes...the ones that they can sue for a couple hundread thousand dollars.

I am not saying that its ok, its totally wrong and those people should realize that they are selling to human beings...but the FTC will crackdown on them only when they will reach "Acai" level...when they will start to receive X amounts of complaints monthly.

[Bill_Z]

We have a membership site with forced continuity for purchasing a product. We offer 30 day free trial to the membership for purchasing the product. Sales are good, but we expect ALOT more and get a ton of pending customers filling out the signup form but freezing at the CB order page.

When they see that recurring billing on the CB page, it scares them. Unfortunately the scams out there ruin legitimate sites like ours. We just changed things, and right now we are testing the membership as an OTO just to see how it goes -- we changed the sales page to offer just the product, then after they click order we have the membership upsell for no additional cost. They can choose both or just the product.

Eventually we will move back to the forced continuity blueprint. We offer a great product and membership site, as well as a variety of ways to cancel. The info on the recurring billing is not hidden and we make it quite clear. It still scares people though.

Bill

[garyk1968]

I think that perhaps IMers will need to build more of a relationship over a longer period of time with more free material to build 'trust' and then perhaps these schemes will be more attractive to prospects. It is no different to bricks and mortar businesses where you have to build trust and credibility first.

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

They're great ... I think everyone ought to sign up for all the continuity scam products using Paypal one-time credit cards and sell the crap on Ebay or something. It's about time they got scammed instead of scamming the customers with their ripoff continuity programs with the continuity part so well hidden that the buyer doesn't have a clue that he's going to be ripped off over and over and over again.

How are you supposed to find these continuity scams and teach them a lesson if they're hiding the continuity from you? Which is it....are they hiding it from you or not?

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by Lance K

Oh come on. Yes, some people bury the continuity terms in small print. But not the majority. Almost every one of those offers I've seen states very plainly (often in a video) that they're giving you the $1 whatever as an incentive to try the continuity program.

And honestly, if it isn't clear to you why they're making the $1 offer maybe you should do a little more due dilligence. If something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

REGARDLESS...

People who sign on for those offers with the intent of getting the $1 whatever and never honestly evaluating the continuity offer are just as much scammers as the few bad apples who do continuity programs the wrong way. (<---Run on sentence for effect. )

The golden rule is a 2 way street.

The continuity program I was enrolled in had no visible continuity terms ... I never agreed to have my credit card charged monthly for anything. I assumed that if I liked the product, I could return and purchase the full version. The return department never answered their phones. I had to just cancel my credit card to get rid of the a**holes. I'm glad the FTC is going after these guys and just because this is a marketing forum does not mean that all forms of marketing are ok. A lot of you just promote anything to make a buck, regardless of the value that customers receive, but that's business ... there are ethical marketers and there are unethical marketers ... plain and simple.

[Marian Berghes]

Where the hell do you guys come up with the "FTC is cracking down on them"?

Can somebody show me some recent articles about the FTC "cracking down" on continuity programs? Besides Acai, Colon and all that stuff

[kimothy777]

I have been pondering how to set up my continuity program over the last few weeks and decided that I will have an optional continuity instead of forced.
I intend to do it via clickbank as I already sell my ebook on clickbank. So I can simply add another product as ebook plus trial of membership site. I haven't had the guts to do it yet, but I think this might be the best way to go about it.
I will be making it very clear to people what they are signing up for and how they can cancel...

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

there are ethical marketers and there are unethical marketers ... plain and simple.

That's true of every strategy. Not all continuity programs are run like the one you got enrolled in. Some are legit and well received.

[mikeyman120]

Hey all,

It looks like the trend may be changing from forced continuity to optional continuity now!

check this page by ryan
The Death Of Forced Continuity

Mike

[Kevin AKA Hubcap]

Ryan said it so it must be true.

[Mike Hill]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

They're great ... I think everyone ought to sign up for all the continuity scam products using Paypal one-time credit cards and sell the crap on Ebay or something. It's about time they got scammed instead of scamming the customers with their ripoff continuity programs with the continuity part so well hidden that the buyer doesn't have a clue that he's going to be ripped off over and over and over again.

Well to be perfectly honest, all the $1 trial, free but cover the shipping offers in the IM space have all been right upfront about the continuity programs. Even in the videos they mention that. I may have missed one that wasn't clear but all the ones I've seen had it right up front several times.

Mike Hill

[Martin Luxton]

Dennis,

Not offering a Paypal option is nothing new. It wasn't offered because it is too easy to cancel.

As a customer, of course you want the Paypal option, but as a seller, you are wary of it because can put a huge dent in your recurring income.

*****************

There are two sides to the "call yourself a marketer" debate.

I have tried to cancel recurring payments (not always trials) with "top" marketers and it is amazing how difficult it can be.

"That is an old email account" (the one they gave as customer support a month before).

"I'm in the process of changing my helpdesk software."

"We've been flooded with requests. We'll try and deal with yours as soon as possible."

Whether they are true or not, these kind of excuses piss people off.

If you are going to run a continuity programme, particularly one off a big launch, you have got to put decent customer support in place as well. Marketing isn't just about making the sale, it's about keeping your customer happy and receptive to future offers.

I once asked for a refund from Marlon Sanders.

I got it within three hours, no questions asked, along with an email asking if there was any other way they could help.

Because of that, I have absolutely no problem recommending Marlon's products to anybody because I know his customer support is top notch and if anybody wants to cancel or refund they don't have to jump through hoops to do it.

Martin

[davemiz]

no ones changing forced continuity. RFT's are dominating the entire CPA industry and will continue to do so...

obviously theres always going to be that small % of dbags who try to scam people.... its in EVERY business, in every country..... you as a card holder are always protected, thats the thing you need to know.

oh and you're wrong with the ftc comments.

they're cracking down because the acai people were CRUSHING it, making obscene amounts of money, and MANY weren't issuing refunds when customers asked which is just stupid.... they think short term only.

oh and for not disclosing continuity. which is just reaaaly dumb on their part.

THAT is the reason why.

and for the people who say they never saw continuity, or terms..... for the most part is laughable.

I run a big continuity program, shipping a physical product..... its amazing how many people don't read the offer..... the terms are on the offer page, on the checkout page, at the bottom of the pages, in links that pop up...... yet they swear up and down theres nothing there.

people don't read. they see the offer, want it and thats it.

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by Marian Berghes

Where the hell do you guys come up with the "FTC is cracking down on them"?

Can somebody show me some recent articles about the FTC "cracking down" on continuity programs? Besides Acai, Colon and all that stuff

And Enzyte.

"All that stuff" is continuity.

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by Marian Berghes

Where the hell do you guys come up with the "FTC is cracking down on them"?

Can somebody show me some recent articles about the FTC "cracking down" on continuity programs? Besides Acai, Colon and all that stuff

FTC cracks down on ‘negative option’ marketing
nutraingredients-usa.com/Regulation/FTC-cracks-down-on-negative-option-marketing

FTC Cracks Down on Scammers Trying to Take Advantage of the Economic Downturn

John Beck/Mentoring of America, two principals, and three purported “inventors” marketed three get-rich-quick schemes, duping hundreds of thousands of consumers into paying approximately $300 million. The defendants marketed “John Beck’s Free & Clear Real Estate System,” “John Alexander’s Real Estate Riches in 14 Days,” and “Jeff Paul’s Shortcuts to Internet Millions.” The defendants allegedly made false and unsubstantiated claims about potential earnings for users of these systems. They used frequently aired infomercials to sell the systems for $39.95 and then contacted the purchasers via telemarketing to offer “personal coaching services,” which cost several thousand dollars and purportedly would enhance their ability to earn money quickly and easily using the systems. In addition, all purchasers were signed up for continuity programs that cost an additional $39.95 per month, but which were not adequately disclosed to consumers. Some consumers also continued receiving unwanted sales calls after they told the defendants’ telemarketers to stop calling. This case was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California.

Grants For You Now and its affiliates and principals operated Web sites such as
grantsforyounow.com, grantoneday.org, and easygrantaccess.com that deceived consumers by promising them free government grant money to use for personal expenses or to pay off debt. According to the FTC complaint, after obtaining consumers’ credit or debit account information to process a $1.99 fee for grant information, the defendants failed to adequately disclose that consumers would be enrolled in a membership program that cost as much as $94.89 a month. Some consumers also were charged a one-time fee of $19.12 for a third-party “Google Profit” program. All the defendants’ Web sites falsely offered a “100% No Hassle Money Back Guarantee.” This case was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California.

Google Money Tree, its principals, and related entities allegedly misrepresented that they were affiliated with Google and lured consumers into divulging their financial account information by advertising a low-cost kit that they said would enable consumers to earn $100,000 in six months. They then failed to adequately disclose that the fee for the kit would trigger monthly charges of $72.21, the complaint states. This case was filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Nevada.

Classic Closeouts, illegally made unauthorized charges and debits to the consumers’ accounts months or years after they bought low-cost clothing or household goods from classiccloseouts.com, the FTC charged. The charges usually ranged from $59.99 to $79.99, and Classic Closeouts charged some consumers’ accounts multiple times. Consumers’ efforts to contact the defendants to contest the charges were unsuccessful. Many consumers also disputed the charges with their financial institutions. After the financial institutions reversed the unauthorized charges, the defendants contested these disputes, falsely claiming that consumers had chosen to join the Classic Closeouts “frequent shopper club.” This case was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York.

Lots of other cases on the site involving making fraudulent claims, misrepresenting the amount of income that can be made using their get rich quick schemes, etc. that don't involve forced continuity ... just plain old deception.

[Scott Ames]

John Beck and Jeff Paul and others in hot water still have their infomercials running. I found that interesting because I thought they had been shut down.

[davemiz]

guys you're giving misinformation.... its not rfts they're targeting thats 100% not true. They're targeting merchants who are LYING in their marketing with fake testimonials and bull**** claims in their products (which are crap).

Please get the facts straight.

the grant products are targeted because the information inside is NOT TRUE.

google money tree, not disclosing continuity and the product is bull****.

jeff paul, and the other tv shows - not disclosing continuity AND FAKE testimonials.

read the entire ftc report, I did several times.

[sbucciarel]

Then you didn't read the full FTC docs. They are also being accused of a "lack of transparency" in the continuity program people are being enrolled in, meaning that the terms are placed in such a way, that no one ever really sees them. In addition, they are cited for difficulty canceling and getting refunds.

[davemiz]

LOL Did you not read my post? i said both of them silly.

they're not disclosing continuity and they're not refunding customers who call to cancel.