Site Flipping Protection ?? Good Idea or Thumbs Down

George Wright · 08-02-2009, 11:26 PM

Hi All,

It's amazing how the mind races full speed ahead when the body is resting. I've been a virtual "Idea Factory," during my forced rest.

I'm on the verge of getting the nation out of debt. (Sell Texas and use the money to pay off the debt. Yep I'm an okie

)

And on site/domain flipping I came up with this.

I'm sure it's not a new idea but it's new to me. Would this fly.

First of all I'll say I wouldn't do this to anyone I knew on or off the WF. However if it were a person I was unfamiliar with and they bought a site and Domain Name from me, would it be stupid to include in the terms of sale that The Domain name would only be transferred after 60 days or whatever the time limit is for a charge back.

This would go past most if not all time limits for refunding.

I thought of this after reading that scammers were buying URLs from flippers and after the domain name transfer doing charge backs or paypal disputes etc.

What do you think about delaying the transfer past the refund period, with this term mentioned right up front as part of the terms of sale? It would just probably scare away the scammers and you would not have to enforce the thing anyway.

Thumbs up or thumbs down on this. (not selling Texas, that's a done deal)

George Wright

Dan C. Rinnert · 08-02-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Wright

What do you think about delaying the transfer past the refund period, with this term mentioned right up front as part of the terms of sale? It would just probably scare away the scammers and you would not have to enforce the thing anyway.

I would think it would do a good job of scaring away legitimate buyers too. So, if after 60 days or whatever, you do not transfer the domain name, what recourse does the buyer have? You've taken him past the chargeback/return period, so now he's stuck.

From the buyer's perspective, it kind of makes you (the seller) look like a potential scammer. As a buyer, I would stay away from a deal like that.

A better option would be escrow.

Sheryl Polomka · 08-02-2009, 11:35 PM

Hi George

In my time of site flipping I have never had any chargebacks and only ever had 2 or 3 refunds. Out of those I think maybe 2 didn't transfer the domain back to me. Not a huge loss over the period of time I've been flipping.

I'm not sure what effects it would have on your sales, in my experience with customers (most of my customers are newbies) stating that you wont transfer the domain, I'm sure most of my customers would take that as not transferring the site.

The other problem I would have with this, is keeping a record then of when domains need to be transferred and hanging on to the customers GoDaddy details for those 60 days, I guess you could keep them in a separate file or something.

From my experience, I don't think I'd do it, I think it would be more hassle than its worth. Unless you started having a lot of trouble with chargebacks, but I really haven't had any.

Charles Montgomery · 08-02-2009, 11:35 PM

I actually had a buyer do this to me on ebay. He didnt wait. He did it the day I handed over the site and "pushed" the domain.

Paypal sided with me, and I got to keep my money. In my case, paypal's protection was enough to suffice. What I do now is, I send the website files via CD, and through certified mail. This way they have to sign for it, and I have proof they got the website files.

I win! Scammers lose.

George Wright · 08-02-2009, 11:38 PM

Excellent Point Dan,

Back to the drawing board.

Of course I failed to mention that I'd point the DNS to their host and or turn over the hosting account, however, your point is very valid RE: scaring off Legit buyers.

Thanks,

George Wright

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

I would think it would do a good job of scaring away legitimate buyers too. So, if after 60 days or whatever, you do not transfer the domain name, what recourse does the buyer have? You've taken him past the chargeback/return period, so now he's stuck.

From the buyer's perspective, it kind of makes you (the seller) look like a potential scammer. As a buyer, I would stay away from a deal like that.

A better option would be escrow.

George Wright · 08-02-2009, 11:43 PM

Hey Charles,

If paypal sides with the seller because of proof of transfer that's all that's needed.

I thought I read that paypal didn't side with the case I mentioned. But if they side with the seller thats GREAT.

The CD idea is very good.

George Wright

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery

I actually had a buyer do this to me on ebay. He didnt wait. He did it the day I handed over the site and "pushed" the domain.

Paypal sided with me, and I got to keep my money. In my case, paypal's protection was enough to suffice. What I do now is, I send the website files via CD, and through certified mail. This way they have to sign for it, and I have proof they got the website files.

I win! Scammers lose.

Charles Montgomery · 08-02-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Wright

Hey Charles,

If paypal sides with the seller because of proof of transfer that's all that's needed.

I thought I read that paypal didn't side with the case I mentioned. But if they side with the seller thats GREAT.

The CD idea is very good.

George Wright

I heard they didnt side with the seller, and have seen many cases of the sellers getting screwed. In my case, it was a $250 sale - and I wasnt about to give up.

I provided paypal with every record I had within the transaction. After about two weeks, my money was released. It could be that the buyer decided he wasnt going to win, so he just closed the dispute.

I dont care. I only care that I learned a good lesson, early. Never sell a site without proof that the buyer took ownership. That is why I send the CD. $3 to ship a CD, and end hundreds of dollars in headaches is a great investment as far as I am concerned.

George Wright · 08-02-2009, 11:55 PM

Very smart Charles,

Question: Would it have to be a CD. How about just a "bill of sale" or a Info sheet that the customer had to sign for sent registered mail.

George Wright

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery

I heard they didnt side with the seller, and have seen many cases of the sellers getting screwed. In my case, it was a $250 sale - and I wasnt about to give up.

I provided paypal with every record I had within the transaction. After about two weeks, my money was released. It could be that the buyer decided he wasnt going to win, so he just closed the dispute.

I dont care. I only care that I learned a good lesson, early. Never sell a site without proof that the buyer took ownership. That is why I send the CD. $3 to ship a CD, and end hundreds of dollars in headaches is a great investment as far as I am concerned.

Charles Montgomery · 08-02-2009, 11:58 PM

I like to do the CD via certified mail, because the actual website files are on that CD. That way if there is a dispute, I have proof that I sent a CD, and that CD contained the website files, and that the buyer signed for the package.

If nothing else, it deters the possible scammer from trying anything. My scam was off the 1st website I ever flipped. I havent been scammed since.

Admiral.W · 08-03-2009, 12:10 AM

Hello Everyone,

This topic is pretty interesting. I'm pretty proactive in website flipping, but have never actually looked into taking measures to protecting my sales. As my problems in this area have increased do to unfair buyers or scammers, I am now looking for a way to get Paypal to take my side encase of a dispute. It has only happened to me about 5 times in 2 years, but doing something to avoid another 5 or 10 would be great.

The idea of sending a cd in the mail with required signature seems perfect, however what about having the buyer sign a website sales contract... I found this on sitepoint:

The Deluxe Web Site Sales Contract - SitePoint Kits and looks pretty solid.

What do you guys think?? Would a contract scare buyers away, or make them feel more secure and simply make you look more professional? --- I figure if its a nice professionally written contract, buyers wouldn't care...

Looking forward to some responses.

Charles Montgomery · 08-03-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral.W

Hello Everyone,

This topic is pretty interesting. I'm pretty proactive in website flipping, but have never actually looked into taking measures to protecting my sales. As my problems in this area have increased do to unfair buyers or scammers, I am now looking for a way to get Paypal to take my side encase of a dispute. It has only happened to me about 5 times in 2 years, but doing something to avoid another 5 or 10 would be great.

The idea of sending a cd in the mail with required signature seems perfect, however what about having the buyer sign a website sales contract... I found this on sitepoint:

The Deluxe Web Site Sales Contract - SitePoint Kits and looks pretty solid.

What do you guys think?? Would a contract scare buyers away, or make them feel more secure and simply make you look more professional? --- I figure if its a nice professionally written contract, buyers wouldn't care...

Looking forward to some responses.

I dont know if paypal would accept it if a dispute was open. I would like to see a real life case example of this contract put to the test before I use it.

Admiral.W · 08-03-2009, 12:35 AM

I would think that this contract would be used for bigger sales. Not website flips of $50 or so.... Probably $200+..... Def $500+

I suppose I will ask paypal manager what he thinks will happen, and email the paypal dispute department.

George Wright · 08-03-2009, 12:46 AM

And of course you may be dealing with an actual CC charge back. If the CC Company processes the charge back then PayPal has no choice. Right?

George Wright

Admiral.W · 08-03-2009, 12:50 AM

Actually, Paypal will attempt to work with you. Usually they will shut you off if it was an electronic sale, but if you have a contract in tact, or proof of shipment, Paypal can override the chargeback... Basically they will file a dispute and try to get the credit card co to understand that the person who filed to the chargeback is wrong.

mattpaul2000 · 08-07-2009, 01:47 PM

Check out www.domainersuniversity.com (not a Affiliate link) or look for Gene Piemental on Warrior!

Best Regards

Matt

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Wright

Hi All,

It's amazing how the mind races full speed ahead when the body is resting. I've been a virtual "Idea Factory," during my forced rest.

I'm on the verge of getting the nation out of debt. (Sell Texas and use the money to pay off the debt. Yep I'm an okie

)

And on site/domain flipping I came up with this.

I'm sure it's not a new idea but it's new to me. Would this fly.

First of all I'll say I wouldn't do this to anyone I knew on or off the WF. However if it were a person I was unfamiliar with and they bought a site and Domain Name from me, would it be stupid to include in the terms of sale that The Domain name would only be transferred after 60 days or whatever the time limit is for a charge back.

This would go past most if not all time limits for refunding.

I thought of this after reading that scammers were buying URLs from flippers and after the domain name transfer doing charge backs or paypal disputes etc.

What do you think about delaying the transfer past the refund period, with this term mentioned right up front as part of the terms of sale? It would just probably scare away the scammers and you would not have to enforce the thing anyway.

Thumbs up or thumbs down on this. (not selling Texas, that's a done deal)

George Wright

08-02-2009, 11:26 PM	#1
George Wright You R GREAT if you are A War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Shakey/Sunny CA, USA. Posts: 5,372 Blog Entries: 31 Thanks: 1,495 Thanked 750 Times in 269 Posts	Site Flipping Protection ?? Good Idea or Thumbs Down Hi All, It's amazing how the mind races full speed ahead when the body is resting. I've been a virtual "Idea Factory," during my forced rest. I'm on the verge of getting the nation out of debt. (Sell Texas and use the money to pay off the debt. Yep I'm an okie ) And on site/domain flipping I came up with this. I'm sure it's not a new idea but it's new to me. Would this fly. First of all I'll say I wouldn't do this to anyone I knew on or off the WF. However if it were a person I was unfamiliar with and they bought a site and Domain Name from me, would it be stupid to include in the terms of sale that The Domain name would only be transferred after 60 days or whatever the time limit is for a charge back. This would go past most if not all time limits for refunding. I thought of this after reading that scammers were buying URLs from flippers and after the domain name transfer doing charge backs or paypal disputes etc. What do you think about delaying the transfer past the refund period, with this term mentioned right up front as part of the terms of sale? It would just probably scare away the scammers and you would not have to enforce the thing anyway. Thumbs up or thumbs down on this. (not selling Texas, that's a done deal) George Wright
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08-02-2009, 11:35 PM	#3
Sheryl Polomka Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: , , Australia. Posts: 2,084 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 123 Thanked 77 Times in 68 Posts	Re: Site Flipping Protection ?? Good Idea or Thumbs Down Hi George In my time of site flipping I have never had any chargebacks and only ever had 2 or 3 refunds. Out of those I think maybe 2 didn't transfer the domain back to me. Not a huge loss over the period of time I've been flipping. I'm not sure what effects it would have on your sales, in my experience with customers (most of my customers are newbies) stating that you wont transfer the domain, I'm sure most of my customers would take that as not transferring the site. The other problem I would have with this, is keeping a record then of when domains need to be transferred and hanging on to the customers GoDaddy details for those 60 days, I guess you could keep them in a separate file or something. From my experience, I don't think I'd do it, I think it would be more hassle than its worth. Unless you started having a lot of trouble with chargebacks, but I really haven't had any.
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08-02-2009, 11:35 PM	#4
Charles Montgomery Internet Equals Money War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 900 Thanks: 106 Thanked 124 Times in 85 Posts Contact Info	Re: Site Flipping Protection ?? Good Idea or Thumbs Down I actually had a buyer do this to me on ebay. He didnt wait. He did it the day I handed over the site and "pushed" the domain. Paypal sided with me, and I got to keep my money. In my case, paypal's protection was enough to suffice. What I do now is, I send the website files via CD, and through certified mail. This way they have to sign for it, and I have proof they got the website files. I win! Scammers lose.

08-02-2009, 11:58 PM	#9
Charles Montgomery Internet Equals Money War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 900 Thanks: 106 Thanked 124 Times in 85 Posts Contact Info	Re: Site Flipping Protection ?? Good Idea or Thumbs Down I like to do the CD via certified mail, because the actual website files are on that CD. That way if there is a dispute, I have proof that I sent a CD, and that CD contained the website files, and that the buyer signed for the package. If nothing else, it deters the possible scammer from trying anything. My scam was off the 1st website I ever flipped. I havent been scammed since.

08-03-2009, 12:10 AM	#10
Admiral.W HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: LA, California Posts: 182 Thanks: 15 Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Site Flipping Protection ?? Good Idea or Thumbs Down Hello Everyone, This topic is pretty interesting. I'm pretty proactive in website flipping, but have never actually looked into taking measures to protecting my sales. As my problems in this area have increased do to unfair buyers or scammers, I am now looking for a way to get Paypal to take my side encase of a dispute. It has only happened to me about 5 times in 2 years, but doing something to avoid another 5 or 10 would be great. The idea of sending a cd in the mail with required signature seems perfect, however what about having the buyer sign a website sales contract... I found this on sitepoint: The Deluxe Web Site Sales Contract - SitePoint Kits and looks pretty solid. What do you guys think?? Would a contract scare buyers away, or make them feel more secure and simply make you look more professional? --- I figure if its a nice professionally written contract, buyers wouldn't care... Looking forward to some responses.

08-03-2009, 12:35 AM	#12
Admiral.W HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: LA, California Posts: 182 Thanks: 15 Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Site Flipping Protection ?? Good Idea or Thumbs Down I would think that this contract would be used for bigger sales. Not website flips of $50 or so.... Probably $200+..... Def $500+ I suppose I will ask paypal manager what he thinks will happen, and email the paypal dispute department.

08-03-2009, 12:46 AM	#13
George Wright You R GREAT if you are A War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Shakey/Sunny CA, USA. Posts: 5,372 Blog Entries: 31 Thanks: 1,495 Thanked 750 Times in 269 Posts	Re: Site Flipping Protection ?? Good Idea or Thumbs Down And of course you may be dealing with an actual CC charge back. If the CC Company processes the charge back then PayPal has no choice. Right? George Wright
	Today Could Be Your Last Chance to get 1,000,000 Templates for $7.77 Price Goes Up Soon! LOOK! Amazing NEW and EASY way to write, edit and CREATE your next eBook NEW FAST eBook Creation Method $7.77 "One Million eBook Templates" Ton's of goodies to go with this WSO YOU will LOVE this. LIVE interactive Table of contents creation so easy Even I Can Do It.

08-03-2009, 12:50 AM	#14
Admiral.W HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: LA, California Posts: 182 Thanks: 15 Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Site Flipping Protection ?? Good Idea or Thumbs Down Actually, Paypal will attempt to work with you. Usually they will shut you off if it was an electronic sale, but if you have a contract in tact, or proof of shipment, Paypal can override the chargeback... Basically they will file a dispute and try to get the credit card co to understand that the person who filed to the chargeback is wrong.