Ethical dilemma!

AfteraDream · 08-04-2009, 06:16 AM

Ok guys, I'm torn on what to do. I am in build muscles niche. And I know a lot of guys train to get more girls. If this was ideal world, then this wouldn't happen. But in real world we live guys do train for girls and to impress them. Usually I'd be first one to critique. I love working out and girls are just a small part of it. And in my blog I'd go against training for girls and try to persuade guys to not do this and find different motivation. But I doubt this work. I might just be driving people away because even if on a conscious level they know it's "Wrong" to train for girls, they still do it and when someone tries to tak them out of it then they just get out of there.

Now what do I do? Do I keep my views or water it down a bit and cater for what my actual readers want (to impress girls!). By catering I don't mean encouraging them to workout for girls or start selling dating advice for them, but just mentioning girls from more often and acknowledging that guys do train for girls a lot and not critiquing it..

Cheers

Mandy Allen · 08-04-2009, 06:29 AM

Blimey, what dilemma! The difficulty you have is a lot of girls love the guys to look like that so they are add ing more fuel to that fire. Can you perhaps balance it with the other reasons? You say yourself it is a small part of your own reasoning. I think a balanced view would be better than trying to avoid the issue totally. Maybe try to advocate all of the other reasons, but acknowledge that this is a part of the reason too.

Enjoy the journey.

Mandy

howudoin · 08-04-2009, 06:38 AM

Quote:

I might just be driving people away because even if on a conscious level they know it's "Wrong" to train for girls

That's a bold claim!!!

I mean how can you be sure that "they know" it's "WRONG" to train for girls. I can assure you that there are many guys (like me) who believe that their is nothing wrong with going to gym so as to flex muscles in front of girls. Although I must add here that I seriously don't believe that this approach works, however there was a time in my past when I used to think it does!!(LOL!)

I don't see anything wrong with promoting (Or reviewing) your product from this angle of "get-this-&-flex-muscles-in-front-of-babes". You might even want to consider putting in a few dating affiliate links in a separate category articles written specifically for this purpose. (However if I were you I would resist this temptation since It has the potential of weakening the "Call to action" to your readers)

Bhupinder

CDawson · 08-04-2009, 06:39 AM

Really it is a person's choice if they want to body build to impress woman or just go get tone, I don't think your doing any wrong but you might have more success by not mentioning it at all, just my 2 cents.

rosetrees · 08-04-2009, 07:15 AM

As a woman - I see nothing wrong in getting toned to impress girls. For some girls it will work, for others it won't. Most girls put on makeup to make themselves more attractive to men - not much different really, is it?

Scott Ames · 08-04-2009, 07:30 AM

I think different men will have different motivation for training and looking good. Not all will want to impress girls. I'm married and want to build a nice body, more for satisfaction and health, and to look in the mirror and not get depressed. What about gay men? They are certainly not trying to impress girls.

In a sales letter you should try to hit every motivation point you can think of because everyone is different. If your course materials or personal belief is that training for the female population is wrong, then advocate that, don't change. I personally don't see a problem with it. Whatever works to get them motivated to work out.

TheNightOwl · 08-04-2009, 07:51 AM

Dude, you know it to be true so why avoid the issue?

Why not confront it head on? You don't need to be negative about it or talk it down. You just need to address it up-front to your prospects/readers.

Of course, some well-placed pictures of bikini-clad babes wouldn't hurt your message, now would it?

Yeah, I put a "tongue-poke" smiley there, but I'm actually not joking. It's interesting what goes on "under the radar" (i.e. subconsciously) for readers. You might say "Hey, guys... y'know, picking up chix is not the be all and end all of getting ripped. There are XYZ benefits and blah blah blah too..." and have a picture of a hottie right there!

We all know which urges people actually act on.

You don't need to water down your message. You just need to acknowledge that it's there and what problems it can cause for your motivation/routine/results (whatever... I don't understand! LOL!)... and then get on with whatever advice you care to offer your readers, right?

Then... added bonus! Because you haven't said it's a no-no (which would be pissin' in the wind anyway), you can then cross-promote to your dating-advice site, which is an affiliate site for DYD or something like that (because in my experience, a lot of guys who want to get ripped to date gals are doing it because they're missing what D'Angelo/Pagan calls "Inner Game" -- MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more important than looking like a condom full o' walnuts. Fact.)

Hope that helps!

TheNightOwl
(74kgs for 20 years and doin' just fine with the ladies

)

Martin Luxton · 08-04-2009, 07:57 AM

With that kind of reasoning you'd have difficulty promoting sports cars, beauty products, health products, chocolate . . .

Whatever a person's motivation, the positive byproduct is a healthy body.

People have the weirdest reasons for doing things. One student I had spent 4 years of her life and tens of thousands of pounds learning English for one purpose: to meet the tennis star she loved and chat him up.

Scott,

Quote:

I'm married and want to build a nice body, more for satisfaction and health

Not even just a little bit to impress your lady wife?

Martin

Luckies · 08-04-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosetrees

As a woman - I see nothing wrong in getting toned to impress girls. For some girls it will work, for others it won't. Most girls put on makeup to make themselves more attractive to men - not much different really, is it?

depends... what kind of girl or man you want?

Shana_Adam · 08-04-2009, 08:06 AM

One good advice you always hear in sales is never Assume

That is to put it crudely you make an Ass out of U and Me.

You will never ever know what people are thinking. Also You cant predict what people will think its just one of those things.

Take feedback from your readers - what do they say, what do they want more of? Cater to them and they will spread your website. If they dont get what they want then they wont bother doing your bidding. Long term you can grow to get free traffic just from these readers recommending your site.

As it is a Niche - ie bodybuilding to get in shape to impress girls. People that want to get fit may not be interested in coming to you site. As they don't have the intention of getting fit for anyone but themselves so they would go to a generic body building site anyway.

Focus on building a tight niche - then some day go wider.

wisecrone333 · 08-04-2009, 08:07 AM

Hi there,

I went and had a look at your site in the signature line and I like what you have done so far. I think in your intro where you emphasized the "great looking, strong and healthy body" that you have hit the balance perfectly. I don't suppose it really matters what a persons' motivation for looking like that would be - I agree that it would be better for their self-esteem if they were doing this to feel better about themselves and looking after their health, rather than trying to impress the ladies - but the bottom line is that they are motivated for what ever reason and that has to be a good thing for you.

Personally I have always got annoyed with my female friends who diet to please their man - or as another warrior mentioned wears makeup and what have you - but we all do some things for silly reasons and I guess this is just another example. I don't think you would put guys off if you came out against them buffing themselves for women though as they are likely to agree with you that it is for their health, or confidence, but still think inside "yes and it gets the babes".

Just my two cents worth
Lisa
P.S. I loved your pictures on your site - are they yours?

AfteraDream · 08-04-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisecrone333

Hi there,

I went and had a look at your site in the signature line and I like what you have done so far. I think in your intro where you emphasized the "great looking, strong and healthy body" that you have hit the balance perfectly. I don't suppose it really matters what a persons' motivation for looking like that would be - I agree that it would be better for their self-esteem if they were doing this to feel better about themselves and looking after their health, rather than trying to impress the ladies - but the bottom line is that they are motivated for what ever reason and that has to be a good thing for you.

Personally I have always got annoyed with my female friends who diet to please their man - or as another warrior mentioned wears makeup and what have you - but we all do some things for silly reasons and I guess this is just another example. I don't think you would put guys off if you came out against them buffing themselves for women though as they are likely to agree with you that it is for their health, or confidence, but still think inside "yes and it gets the babes".

Just my two cents worth
Lisa
P.S. I loved your pictures on your site - are they yours?

Thank You! I try my best to be greatest help for skinny guys like me. And yes, those pictures are mine. I'm keeping it real and try to be as transparent as I can.
I do try to balance out, I stress the gains in self confidence and feeling great most, but still mention that getting girls is a positive side effect. From now on I will probably use girls a bit more or say that if a guy is motivated by girls then it's his choice, my job is to help him gain muscle for whatever reason he wants. Who I am to judge others! I probably am too self-righteous and always want to do the "right" thing... I'm should be more open-minded and less critical.

Thank you all for contributing

Diana Lane · 08-04-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AfteraDream

Who I am to judge others! I probably am too self-righteous and always want to do the "right" thing... I'm should be more open-minded and less critical.

That's more or less what I was going to say, only a bit less harshly. Stop being so critical of yourself

You're right, though. Knowing your buyers' motivations is all that's necessary. It's not your place to judge them.

Men and women have been trying to impress each other since the dawn of time, anyway, and building muscle is a positively sensible way of going about it in comparison to some of the daft methods that have been used over the years

AfteraDream · 08-04-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana Lane

That's more or less what I was going to say, only a bit less harshly. Stop being so critical of yourself

You're right, though. Knowing your buyers' motivations is all that's necessary. It's not your place to judge them.

Men and women have been trying to impress each other since the dawn of time, anyway, and building muscle is a positively sensible way of going about it in comparison to some of the daft methods that have been used over the years

It's not harsh..for me..

I just take this thing responsibly. Wanna makes this blog best place for skinny guys.
And yup, not my business to judge them...

Thanx

CDarklock · 08-04-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AfteraDream

Ok guys, I'm torn on what to do. I am in build muscles niche. And I know a lot of guys train to get more girls.

Well, you know, some of them aren't into girls. I guess you could go for that market.

Seriously, this isn't an ethical dilemma at all. You're asking whether you should sell what matters to the customer. Well, DUH! Of course you should! Forget health and fitness and longevity and all that claptrap; tell it like it is:

Look Good Naked

End of story!

danoday · 08-04-2009, 06:13 PM

There's an old marketing expression:

"Sell them what they want. Give them what they need."

If I understand correctly, you feel people are buying for the wrong reason. Okay, let them buy for that wrong reason. But with your product, they'll experience what you believe are the true benefits.

So they get both what they want and what they need.

Maker sense?

AfteraDream · 08-04-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danoday

There's an old marketing expression:

"Sell them what they want. Give them what they need."

If I understand correctly, you feel people are buying for the wrong reason. Okay, let them buy for that wrong reason. But with your product, they'll experience what you believe are the true benefits.

So they get both what they want and what they need.

Maker sense?

Yup, definitely makes!

mikemcmillan · 08-04-2009, 07:02 PM

AfteraDream, I like to help people out here. How about if I send you a photo of me an a swimsuit on a beach and you could use it with the caption DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOUR BODY!

That would probably scare them into buying. How about a 20% commission

AfteraDream · 08-04-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Well, you know, some of them aren't into girls. I guess you could go for that market.

Seriously, this isn't an ethical dilemma at all. You're asking whether you should sell what matters to the customer. Well, DUH! Of course you should! Forget health and fitness and longevity and all that claptrap; tell it like it is:

Look Good Naked

End of story!

haha... very true! Thanx

Bcrewse1 · 08-04-2009, 07:17 PM

Really, any kind of training and body building is GREAT regardless of the motivation. Just getting people to get started is the important thing. My own experience says initial reasons seem to disappear once you get into the groove of training....I do it purely for the good health it delivers...even if that is not why I started.

bretski · 08-04-2009, 07:26 PM

Personally? I would promote to women also and I have a lot of close female friends who work out solely for that reason...to look good. It is a basic part of our human nature to want to attract the opposite sex (or same sex if you schwing dat way). We may try to deny it or say it's secondary to our health and well being..."we feel good when we exercise because we're releasing endorphins...we're doing something good for ourselves...we feel better and will live longer..." But to deny that we want to look good when we go to the beach or at work or for our significant other...why not?

Just my take on this but I think that if you have a blog you could just write from your heart about this...think about it and write like you talk. Just look at the response that you got HERE on a marketing forum! And seriously...I wouldn't limit myself to just guys...I mean for your site...I'm not implying anything...not that there is anything WRONG with that...ok...I'll shut up now!

kevalin · 08-04-2009, 08:55 PM

You go, bretski!

Seriously, AfteraDream, As long as you don't flame people for having a different reason to do what they do than you do, you can state almost any opinion and still build the Marketer's best friend, rapport, with your readers.

I've found that one of the best ways to state your own, possibly controversial opinions, is to preface what you have to say with some variation of "In my own experience..."

For instance: "I found out the hard way that if I work out just to impress others, my motivation to work out takes a hit if they're not impressed. Then everything becomes much harder. So I make my workouts about impressing ME first..."

You're telling your truth, but you're also making room for others to have their own experiences. You also give folks who had never thought about it an opening to think about why they're doing what they do. Even more importantly, you're giving your readers room to state their own opinions, and that means they'll probably come back to your site, if only to see if anyone had a response to what they said about what you said.

So I wouldn't tone down my own views if I were you, I'd just state them in a way that allows you to maintain rapport.That would be a real win-win situation.

bizideas · 08-04-2009, 08:59 PM

Three quick thoughts come to mind when reading this thread.

Maybe you should go ask the girls what they think. Take a poll or something. Once you have a general consensus, go market your results (minus your personal belief) to the guys.
You said you're in the muscle building niche. Have you considered that there is a huge market of women out there who are body builders too? I'd be interested in knowing what your viewpoint or marketing agenda is for them? I mean, guys like a well toned woman...and the girls know it too.
This problem sounds more like a personal belief/agenda than a caterer to a specific niche whose objective is to shape a product or service for visiting customers. So, in a sense, you've created a problem that you don't need...one that wasn't there to begin with.

Now, I don't have an opinion of the body building niche, but then again, MY OPINION DOESN'T MATTER anyway, Right? Because it's what your audience thinks...and THAT'S what matters when it comes to marketing.

I'm just saying I really don't see a dilemma.

reapr · 08-04-2009, 09:02 PM

Well you could have your cake and eat it too!

You could write your copy such that you are self motivated for your own gain while at the some time catering to the majority of your customer and noting in your copy that most do it for ther girls/ladies. I don't see an issue to it and it would add credibility to you.

For example your could give your story why you do it then based on your experience and customers most people do it for ... then it would not be a delemma.

AfteraDream · 08-05-2009, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizideas

Three quick thoughts come to mind when reading this thread.

Maybe you should go ask the girls what they think. Take a poll or something. Once you have a general consensus, go market your results (minus your personal belief) to the guys.
You said you're in the muscle building niche. Have you considered that there is a huge market of women out there who are body builders too? I'd be interested in knowing what your viewpoint or marketing agenda is for them? I mean, guys like a well toned woman...and the girls know it too.
This problem sounds more like a personal belief/agenda than a caterer to a specific niche whose objective is to shape a product or service for visiting customers. So, in a sense, you've created a problem that you don't need...one that wasn't there to begin with.

Now, I don't have an opinion of the body building niche, but then again, MY OPINION DOESN'T MATTER anyway, Right? Because it's what your audience thinks...and THAT'S what matters when it comes to marketing.

I'm just saying I really don't see a dilemma.

Bizideas and Bretski, you both suggested that I sell to women too. Yup, it is possible and there are more money to be made, more people to be helped, but I won't. I chose to help guys because I am part of that niche, I have been there, done that so to say and I'm most helpful there. I believe in taking a very small niche, specialising and making impact there, not spreading yourself thin. In future I might but now I wont.

Thanx guys

08-04-2009, 06:16 AM	#1
AfteraDream HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 327 Blog Entries: 6 Thanks: 156 Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts	Ethical dilemma! Ok guys, I'm torn on what to do. I am in build muscles niche. And I know a lot of guys train to get more girls. If this was ideal world, then this wouldn't happen. But in real world we live guys do train for girls and to impress them. Usually I'd be first one to critique. I love working out and girls are just a small part of it. And in my blog I'd go against training for girls and try to persuade guys to not do this and find different motivation. But I doubt this work. I might just be driving people away because even if on a conscious level they know it's "Wrong" to train for girls, they still do it and when someone tries to tak them out of it then they just get out of there. Now what do I do? Do I keep my views or water it down a bit and cater for what my actual readers want (to impress girls!). By catering I don't mean encouraging them to workout for girls or start selling dating advice for them, but just mentioning girls from more often and acknowledging that guys do train for girls a lot and not critiquing it.. Cheers
	To change lives of 1001 men! www.36pounds.com - helping men go from Skinny to Buff. Looking for a WP Theme designer/partner..

08-04-2009, 06:29 AM	#2
Mandy Allen Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Norfolk, UK Posts: 70 Blog Entries: 12 Thanks: 6 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts Social Networking	Re: Ethical dilemma! Blimey, what dilemma! The difficulty you have is a lot of girls love the guys to look like that so they are add ing more fuel to that fire. Can you perhaps balance it with the other reasons? You say yourself it is a small part of your own reasoning. I think a balanced view would be better than trying to avoid the issue totally. Maybe try to advocate all of the other reasons, but acknowledge that this is a part of the reason too. Enjoy the journey. Mandy
	mandyallen.com toptipsforchange.com thejohnthornhillfanclub.com isanybodyoutthere.co.uk

08-04-2009, 06:39 AM	#4
CDawson old username "IMbeginner" Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: ladson, South Carolina Posts: 289 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Ethical dilemma! Really it is a person's choice if they want to body build to impress woman or just go get tone, I don't think your doing any wrong but you might have more success by not mentioning it at all, just my 2 cents.
	If you need articles written, feel free to pm me.

08-04-2009, 07:15 AM	#5
rosetrees Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK Posts: 803 Blog Entries: 5 Thanks: 76 Thanked 89 Times in 82 Posts Social Networking	Re: Ethical dilemma! As a woman - I see nothing wrong in getting toned to impress girls. For some girls it will work, for others it won't. Most girls put on makeup to make themselves more attractive to men - not much different really, is it?
	Atahualpa Theme Tutorial. My first ever WSO Beautiful Custom Wordpress design PM me for a quote.

08-04-2009, 07:30 AM	#6
Scott Ames I'm getting fat War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: West of Rockies Posts: 4,808 Thanks: 194 Thanked 304 Times in 168 Posts	Re: Ethical dilemma! I think different men will have different motivation for training and looking good. Not all will want to impress girls. I'm married and want to build a nice body, more for satisfaction and health, and to look in the mirror and not get depressed. What about gay men? They are certainly not trying to impress girls. In a sales letter you should try to hit every motivation point you can think of because everyone is different. If your course materials or personal belief is that training for the female population is wrong, then advocate that, don't change. I personally don't see a problem with it. Whatever works to get them motivated to work out.
	http://www.kiva.org/

08-04-2009, 07:51 AM	#7
TheNightOwl Gatchaman fan War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 325 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 108 Thanked 48 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Ethical dilemma! Dude, you know it to be true so why avoid the issue? Why not confront it head on? You don't need to be negative about it or talk it down. You just need to address it up-front to your prospects/readers. Of course, some well-placed pictures of bikini-clad babes wouldn't hurt your message, now would it? Yeah, I put a "tongue-poke" smiley there, but I'm actually not joking. It's interesting what goes on "under the radar" (i.e. subconsciously) for readers. You might say "Hey, guys... y'know, picking up chix is not the be all and end all of getting ripped. There are XYZ benefits and blah blah blah too..." and have a picture of a hottie right there! We all know which urges people actually act on. You don't need to water down your message. You just need to acknowledge that it's there and what problems it can cause for your motivation/routine/results (whatever... I don't understand! LOL!)... and then get on with whatever advice you care to offer your readers, right? Then... added bonus! Because you haven't said it's a no-no (which would be pissin' in the wind anyway), you can then cross-promote to your dating-advice site, which is an affiliate site for DYD or something like that (because in my experience, a lot of guys who want to get ripped to date gals are doing it because they're missing what D'Angelo/Pagan calls "Inner Game" -- MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more important than looking like a condom full o' walnuts. Fact.) Hope that helps! TheNightOwl (74kgs for 20 years and doin' just fine with the ladies )
	>>>>> Huge package to get you rolling in IM.. Tired of all the BS? <<<<<

08-04-2009, 08:06 AM	#10
Shana_Adam Chris Spheeris Rocks Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Earth is My Home - I love dearly Posts: 237 Thanks: 3 Thanked 31 Times in 23 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Ethical dilemma! One good advice you always hear in sales is never Assume That is to put it crudely you make an Ass out of U and Me. You will never ever know what people are thinking. Also You cant predict what people will think its just one of those things. Take feedback from your readers - what do they say, what do they want more of? Cater to them and they will spread your website. If they dont get what they want then they wont bother doing your bidding. Long term you can grow to get free traffic just from these readers recommending your site. As it is a Niche - ie bodybuilding to get in shape to impress girls. People that want to get fit may not be interested in coming to you site. As they don't have the intention of getting fit for anyone but themselves so they would go to a generic body building site anyway. Focus on building a tight niche - then some day go wider.
	"To see a world in a grain of sand, And a heaven in a wild flower, Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, And eternity in an hour". ~ William Blake Thank You Chris Spheeris for your beautiful music! And to Geoff, Dr Gerald and Dr Jeffrey my best guys!

08-04-2009, 08:07 AM	#11
wisecrone333 Life Student War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: rural NZ Posts: 133 Thanks: 64 Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts Social Networking	Re: Ethical dilemma! Hi there, I went and had a look at your site in the signature line and I like what you have done so far. I think in your intro where you emphasized the "great looking, strong and healthy body" that you have hit the balance perfectly. I don't suppose it really matters what a persons' motivation for looking like that would be - I agree that it would be better for their self-esteem if they were doing this to feel better about themselves and looking after their health, rather than trying to impress the ladies - but the bottom line is that they are motivated for what ever reason and that has to be a good thing for you. Personally I have always got annoyed with my female friends who diet to please their man - or as another warrior mentioned wears makeup and what have you - but we all do some things for silly reasons and I guess this is just another example. I don't think you would put guys off if you came out against them buffing themselves for women though as they are likely to agree with you that it is for their health, or confidence, but still think inside "yes and it gets the babes". Just my two cents worth Lisa P.S. I loved your pictures on your site - are they yours?
	Hire me to write your ebooks - Warriors get a discount: just check out the blog below for more details. Gran's tackling the world of IM - check out the blog here Understanding domestic violence, writing a book in just 8 hours and more can be found here

08-04-2009, 06:13 PM	#16
danoday Active Warrior Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: , , . Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Social Networking	Re: Ethical dilemma! There's an old marketing expression: "Sell them what they want. Give them what they need." If I understand correctly, you feel people are buying for the wrong reason. Okay, let them buy for that wrong reason. But with your product, they'll experience what you believe are the true benefits. So they get both what they want and what they need. Maker sense?

08-04-2009, 07:02 PM	#18
mikemcmillan Mike McMillan War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: MI Posts: 471 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 122 Thanked 211 Times in 94 Posts Social Networking	Re: Ethical dilemma! AfteraDream, I like to help people out here. How about if I send you a photo of me an a swimsuit on a beach and you could use it with the caption DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOUR BODY! That would probably scare them into buying. How about a 20% commission
	Article Marketing War Machine \| Squidoo Secret Code \| Affiliate Marketing Daily Planner Interviews With The Clickbank Gurus \| Dancing With Google \| Project Rubidium

08-04-2009, 07:17 PM	#20
Bcrewse1 Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: , , . Posts: 39 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Ethical dilemma! Really, any kind of training and body building is GREAT regardless of the motivation. Just getting people to get started is the important thing. My own experience says initial reasons seem to disappear once you get into the groove of training....I do it purely for the good health it delivers...even if that is not why I started.

08-04-2009, 07:26 PM	#21
bretski Active Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 72 Thanks: 13 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Ethical dilemma! Personally? I would promote to women also and I have a lot of close female friends who work out solely for that reason...to look good. It is a basic part of our human nature to want to attract the opposite sex (or same sex if you schwing dat way). We may try to deny it or say it's secondary to our health and well being..."we feel good when we exercise because we're releasing endorphins...we're doing something good for ourselves...we feel better and will live longer..." But to deny that we want to look good when we go to the beach or at work or for our significant other...why not? Just my take on this but I think that if you have a blog you could just write from your heart about this...think about it and write like you talk. Just look at the response that you got HERE on a marketing forum! And seriously...I wouldn't limit myself to just guys...I mean for your site...I'm not implying anything...not that there is anything WRONG with that...ok...I'll shut up now!

08-04-2009, 08:55 PM	#22
kevalin Warrior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Ethical dilemma! You go, bretski! Seriously, AfteraDream, As long as you don't flame people for having a different reason to do what they do than you do, you can state almost any opinion and still build the Marketer's best friend, rapport, with your readers. I've found that one of the best ways to state your own, possibly controversial opinions, is to preface what you have to say with some variation of "In my own experience..." For instance: "I found out the hard way that if I work out just to impress others, my motivation to work out takes a hit if they're not impressed. Then everything becomes much harder. So I make my workouts about impressing ME first..." You're telling your truth, but you're also making room for others to have their own experiences. You also give folks who had never thought about it an opening to think about why they're doing what they do. Even more importantly, you're giving your readers room to state their own opinions, and that means they'll probably come back to your site, if only to see if anyone had a response to what they said about what you said. So I wouldn't tone down my own views if I were you, I'd just state them in a way that allows you to maintain rapport.That would be a real win-win situation.

08-04-2009, 08:59 PM	#23
bizideas NonLinear War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 209 Thanks: 22 Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Ethical dilemma! Three quick thoughts come to mind when reading this thread. Maybe you should go ask the girls what they think. Take a poll or something. Once you have a general consensus, go market your results (minus your personal belief) to the guys. You said you're in the muscle building niche. Have you considered that there is a huge market of women out there who are body builders too? I'd be interested in knowing what your viewpoint or marketing agenda is for them? I mean, guys like a well toned woman...and the girls know it too. This problem sounds more like a personal belief/agenda than a caterer to a specific niche whose objective is to shape a product or service for visiting customers. So, in a sense, you've created a problem that you don't need...one that wasn't there to begin with. Now, I don't have an opinion of the body building niche, but then again, MY OPINION DOESN'T MATTER anyway, Right? Because it's what your audience thinks...and THAT'S what matters when it comes to marketing. I'm just saying I really don't see a dilemma.
	Videos Packed with a PUNCH all Lead to the Same Place. Conversion City! There Are Four Lights !!

08-04-2009, 09:02 PM	#24
reapr Redneck Warrior War Room Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Pacific North West, WA, USA Posts: 496 Thanks: 12 Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts	Re: Ethical dilemma! Well you could have your cake and eat it too! You could write your copy such that you are self motivated for your own gain while at the some time catering to the majority of your customer and noting in your copy that most do it for ther girls/ladies. I don't see an issue to it and it would add credibility to you. For example your could give your story why you do it then based on your experience and customers most people do it for ... then it would not be a delemma.