Is JVZoo Selling Buyers Lists?

by 56 replies
Over the past couple of months I have been deluged with JVZoo affiliate offers from people I have never done business with. The only email address getting hit is the one I use for WSO purchases. Other addresses that I use to sign up for early bird offers are not getting hit.

Either JVZoo or one of the major WSO players is selling lists of buyers. I've checked the headers on the messages and they are coming from all over the planet and clearly from different affiliate spammers. There are some common traits that indicate multiple messages are coming from some of the sources, but they must be using a network of spam servers.

Some days I get hit with dozens of unsolicited offers. I've accumulated a list of over 200 domains where the spam allegedly originates.

From my past experience, it doesn't do any good to click a link to opt out of spam emails. That only confirms the address and invites ten times more spam.

Is anyone else having this problem? Does anyone know who is selling the lists?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #buyers #jvzoo #lists #selling
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    A lot of WF sellers have recently stumbled on the concept of a "co-reg" (co-registration) list and they're doing it all wrong. Some even promise to build other people's lists using this method which is even worse.

    In case you don't know, Coreg is when one vendor's optin form silently submits your date to several other optins in the background to 3rd party vendors. Usually in exchange for $$.

    I highly doubt it's JVZoo. It's more likely the sellers submitting your data during the transaction.

    OR...they're blatantly selling it. That's always possible as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
      Originally Posted by Jesus Perez View Post

      A lot of WF sellers have recently stumbled on the concept of a "co-reg" (co-registration) list and they're doing it all wrong. Some even promise to build other people's lists using this method which is even worse.

      In case you don't know, Coreg is when one vendor's optin form silently submits your date to several other optins in the background to 3rd party vendors. Usually in exchange for $$.

      I highly doubt it's JVZoo. It's more likely the sellers submitting your data during the transaction.

      OR...they're blatantly selling it. That's always possible as well.
      I've seen the sales page of the person I think you are referring to. They are selling lead packages and the way they are acquiring the leads is through setting up free WSOs on Warrior Plus.

      When you click the "buy now" button you are automatically added to their list because they can integrate their AR with Warrior Plus.

      I think what the person selling the packages is probably doing is just integrating the buyer's AR with their Warrior Plus account so that anyone who "purchases" the free WSO gets added to the buyer's list.

      If that's the way it's being done and they are only getting added to one list then technically I don't think it's co-reg. However, if they are getting added to the seller's list as well as the buyer's then it would be co-reg.

      I think ethically it's pretty borderline.
  • Profile picture of the author JC Web
    I think it's more likely the vendors you are buying from that are selling your email, although there's certainly no way for me to say for sure it's not JVZoo. I know I have bought products and services in the past from people selling through both WarriorPlus and JVZoo and those vendors have definitely sold my address to spammers without my permission.

    I use different secondary email addresses for each purchase or put extra characters in my name so I can track who does this. Some of the "big names" are definitely guilty of this as well as some of the most well-spoken of people on this forum.
    • Profile picture of the author TDogger
      Originally Posted by JC Web View Post

      Some of the "big names" are definitely guilty of this as well as some of the most well-spoken of people on this forum.
      I started receiving the same type of spammy WSO emails at another email address. I've only used that email for two WSO products I purchased over the years. Both products were sold by big name sellers at JV Zoo. They both are USA based and appear to be fairly good players. I would not have suspected either of selling email addresses, but one of them undoubtedly is.

      I plan to set a trap with two additional email addresses that will end up on their mailing lists. That way I can narrow it down and expose the rat who is doing this.
  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    In hindsight, I should have used a throwaway email address for the contact email when processing the PayPal payment through JVZoo. I think that's the one that goes to the seller.

    I do use throwaway names when I sign up for webinars and early bird offers. Those emails have never been hit with this type of spam, so the problem is clearly someone who is selling a buyers list.

    I could tolerate one or two WSO offers from spammers per day, but when the number reached dozens, it was no longer tolerable.

    There is a pattern to a lot of the domain names. I suspect they may all be coming from 4 or 5 spammers using a worldwide email server network, or a list of compromised mailservers.

    The co-registration concept that Jesus mentioned is interesting. I suspect one of the sellers I purchased from is selling their list to the spammers.
  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    JVZoo values it's list too much to cannibalize it. I would bet it's some one trick pony WSO seller.

    FYI Gmail allows you to put +anything after your username to allow future filtering.

    It's sad to see people buying and selling lists. I don't know how the spammers can keep sending so much mail in 2015.
    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

      It's sad to see people buying and selling lists. I don't know how the spammers can keep sending so much mail in 2015.
      It's pretty simple. Combine an ever-expanding series of botnets with servers located mostly in countries that crave hard currency without asking any questions, and the deluge continues to grow.
  • Profile picture of the author furious group
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  • Profile picture of the author Faisal-Rehman
    Maybe the vendors you are buying from that are selling your email. I bought a lot of products from CB, JVZoo and W+ but it never happened to me.
    • Profile picture of the author keiran
      I've been meaning to post a question about this here myself.

      I also get emails from people I have never dealt with or heard of promoting various things. I got the idea that marketers were selling addresses (despite what they say) after I bought a product last year from a big name marketer and got flood of promotional emails shortly afterwards.

      One unexpectedly positive thing about this is that I get a number of emails from different marketers promoting the same product, usually around the same time if it's a launch. This has allowed me to see which approach I like, and which I don't, which is really helpful when writing promotional emails.
  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    These are not just people selling various things. The emails promote the most popular WSOs. The emails look like any email you would get from a legitimate WSO seller you've purchased from in the past.

    I suspect this started with one WSO seller who is secretly selling lists. They are being run through a list of spam network mailservers or perhaps a group of compromised mailservers around the world.

    There is no consistency with IPs or mailservers. One email may come from a server in Uruguay, the next from the Philippines, the next from Brazil, and another from the USA, all using the same domain name. Some of the domains are not even registered. This means the information in the header is being spoofed.

    There is also a distinct pattern with some of the domain names used, which tends to make me believe that the group of spammers is small. Here is a sample of the repetition I see.

    @greensassassin.com
    @greenscrusher.com
    @greensdestroyer.com
    @greensdominator.com
    @greenseliminator.com
    @greenssupremacy.com

    @profitassassin.com
    @profitcrusher.com
    @profitdestroyer.com
    @profitdominator.com
    @profiteliminator.com

    @rulesassassin.com
    @rulescrusher.com
    @rulesdestroyer.com
    @rulesdominator.com
    @ruleseliminator.com
    @rulessupremacy.com

    This is both very unethical as well as annoying.
    • Profile picture of the author coffeediva
      I am glad i found this post as I thought I was going a little crazy. It seems that my messages are breeding like Rabbits. So thinking there is a little bit of funny business going on. I am also finding that I am getting 3 or 4 messages that are exactly the same. they seem to be from a similar group so there must be some selling going on. I keep unsubscribing but like you say this also seems to have no effect.
      Lucky Gmail accounts lets you have oodles of space for emails
      Thanks for your post
  • Profile picture of the author jvzreview
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  • Profile picture of the author jvzreview
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  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    Hi coffeediva,

    From my experience, unsubscribing from a spam list only gets you on 10 times more lists and the volume of spam goes on steroids. I only unsubscribe when I know the sender is legitimate.
  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    I just ran into a seller on jvzoo, that is sending promotions to an email address not associated with jvzoo, this guy is a jvzoo seller, I have never purchased anything from him, 276 emails in a month.

    What bothers me here is that there is no way to contact JVzoo, that seems like an oversight and should be corrected.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adam Sussman
      Tim,

      You can contact JVZ here. JVZoo Support

      Its worth keeping some of the spam emails as JVZ may want the headers. In the past I have found them very helpful when it comes down to spammers.

      Adam
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  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    I have kept almost all the emails for study. The best way to block them is through the email filters in cPanel. That way, they never clog up your mobile devices.

    I add several more domain names to the filters every day, but that may be futile because so many of the domain names used in the email addresses are not even registered.

    The spammers are JVZoo affiliates. That's clearly how they make their money. I doubt if JVZoo would do anything, but they might be able to identify the culprits through the affiliate IDs. Even that appears to be masked through redirects.
    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      I don't let it bother me.

      I just shutdown the email account and make another one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joan Altz
    JVZoo certainly isn't going to do that. They make money from sending your buyers offers from their daily promotions as affiliates. They won't jeopardize that opportunity by selling the buyers lists.
    • Profile picture of the author TDogger
      Originally Posted by Joan Altz View Post

      JVZoo certainly isn't going to do that. They make money from sending your buyers offers from their daily promotions as affiliates. They won't jeopardize that opportunity by selling the buyers lists.
      Using that same logic, anyone who sells their lists would be jeopardizing their income stream. Yet, they still do it. Selling buyers lists can be very profitable.

      In this case, the guilty party is one of two very well known Warrior Forum sellers who I know have several very large lists. Perhaps they are selling the lists that have been less productive.

      I do not think it is JVZoo. At the time when I started this thread, JVZoo was the only common clue in all of the spam messages. Now that the spammers hit another of my email addresses, I have narrowed it down.

      It would be nice if JVZoo had a mechanism for reporting spammers, but that would not fit their business model.

      Originally Posted by Marc Rodill View Post

      I couldn't see it as being very effective. I've noticed that PayPal email addresses are pretty non-responsive. I've gotten in the habit of sending personal emails to my customers purchase email. They almost never respond.
      I agree that it's probably not effective, especially since most people will not buy anything from someone they do not know who sends them an offer via email. I suspect less than 1% of email recipients respond with a purchase. But 1% of 50,000 emails is still 500 affiliate sales that they could not have earned any other way.

      The WSO emails are coming from professional spammers. When I check the email headers I find that they are bouncing each message through up to 4 different email servers in an attempt to hide the origin. The important part is to look at the first mailserver data, not the last mailserver.
  • Profile picture of the author ghost209
    If you're getting spammed, did not opt in, and have no way to unsubscribe.. Then they are violating Can-Spam rules and can be sued for large sums of money.

    First, I would grab their link, share it with JV Zoo / vendor and report it. They'll probably get banned.

    If you follow that link, see if you can figure out what their affiliate id is. It may be in the Hoplink URL, it could be on the checkout / footer page..

    You could use that to track down who is doing it.
    • Profile picture of the author Kherk Roldan
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    • Profile picture of the author TDogger
      Originally Posted by ghost209 View Post

      If you're getting spammed, did not opt in, and have no way to unsubscribe.. Then they are violating Can-Spam rules and can be sued for large sums of money.
      Not if the spammers are located outside the USA. Can-Spam is only good for prosecuting USA spammers. Even though all the evidence points to one of two USA JVZoo sellers as being the source of the email lists, if they are not sending the emails themselves, I don't think they can be prosecuted.

      Plus, only a fool would click on an opt-out link from a spammer. That just confirms your email address and pretty much guarantees a 10x increase in spam. None of these messages come from legitimate email services, such as AWeber, MailChimp or Get Response.

      A check of the IPs for the mailserver sources indicates that most are coming from spam servers in France and Germany, although a few are coming from USA and Eastern European sources. The headers are being spoofed for some of the spam. A large number of the return email domain names are not registered and some IPs show up as invalid.

      Originally Posted by ghost209 View Post

      First, I would grab their link, share it with JV Zoo / vendor and report it. They'll probably get banned.

      If you follow that link, see if you can figure out what their affiliate id is. It may be in the Hoplink URL, it could be on the checkout / footer page..

      You could use that to track down who is doing it.
      This may be good advice. I'll check it out.
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    WhereGoes? - A tool for tracing the redirect path of URLs helps to figure out cloaked links final destination.

    Mark
    • Profile picture of the author Tony Dean
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      WhereGoes? - A tool for tracing the redirect path of URLs helps to figure out cloaked links final destination.

      Mark
      Thanks for the link.
      I too have had spam emails and just peruse the header info and find a host name and contact the webhost provider together with full header and the spam stops.
      You get more from elsewhere and you rinse and repeat, before long there is no more spam in my email inbox or the spam folder.
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  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    Mark, that looks like a useful tool. The links in these messages are cloaked, which is why I did not click on them in the past.

    I will have to check a large number of links to see if there is a pattern of repeat abuse that I can report to JVZoo.

    I'm redirecting all the spam sources I've identified via cPanel. I'm currently getting 100 to 200 JVZoo spam messages per day. I'd call that a clear case of abuse.

    Thanks
  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    I managed to block about 95% of the spam through cPanel. The latest round of WSO spam came from a jerk with servers in Lithuania and Turkey. He was using more than 50 different domain names, but it was easy to block the IP addresses used by the mailservers.
  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    Lately I have been getting emails from lots of marketers that I KNOW I did not subscribe to. I'm not really sure what's going on because it's only started happening in the last 3 or 4 weeks. I think it could be that maybe somebody is just using my email to subscribe to different lists to get the free stuff that is being offered. As lots of marketers use single opt-in, that could explain it.

    Whatever the cause it sure is annoying.
    • Profile picture of the author JC Web
      Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

      Lately I have been getting emails from lots of marketers that I KNOW I did not subscribe to. I'm not really sure what's going on because it's only started happening in the last 3 or 4 weeks. I think it could be that maybe somebody is just using my email to subscribe to different lists to get the free stuff that is being offered. As lots of marketers use single opt-in, that could explain it.

      Whatever the cause it sure is annoying.
      That's the least likely option. Someone would just make up an email address in that case. The two most likely options are that someone has sold your address or that they are entering it in PPL programs to make money off of it. I caught someone lots of people on this forum admire entering my email into PPL programs.
  • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
    I have been getting slammed with them as well.

    Sadly, from my experience, JVZoo, doesn't do anything about it. I've tried reporting many of the emails, but they just keep coming. You'd think they "should" cut of their account. And it's quite easy to see it's the same person spamming every time. They use a different "name" each time, but you can tell it's all from one person/group/what-have-you.

    Wouldn't be as much spam if the money was cut off.
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    • Profile picture of the author infinite
      Originally Posted by Ron Killian View Post

      I have been getting slammed with them as well.

      Sadly, from my experience, JVZoo, doesn't do anything about it. I've tried reporting many of the emails, but they just keep coming. You'd think they "should" cut of their account. And it's quite easy to see it's the same person spamming every time. They use a different "name" each time, but you can tell it's all from one person/group/what-have-you.

      Wouldn't be as much spam if the money was cut off.
      I agree wholeheartedly Ron! I have been in the same boat - have 2-3 pages of replies to and fro in a support ticket which has dragged on for OVER A MONTH now about 1 particular spammer that has been BOMBARDING ME using different from names, and several different JVZoo affiliate IDs but they have yet to actually ban the spammer - despite the mountains of proof I have provided them.

      Seems they are not really that interested in fixing the issue or certainly in no hurry to do so.

      Sadly this spammer is probably cashing in from unsuspecting people in the meantime.

      Cheers

      Aaron
  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    @infinite & other interested parties.

    This is the real problem, (since JVzoo will not or refuses to communicate with its customers in any meaningful way, it is actually JVzoo that is at the heart of this issue.

    Meaning that the bad behaving players, (those that are selling emails to unscrupulous spammers) or spamming you anyway.

    They are free to spam you all day long, why not they know that JVzoo is like Pontus Pilot, [washing their hands] of the customers concerns or problems.

    These spammers know that JVZoo is incommunicado, they know that there is almost no method of contacting JVzoo to let them know that consumers are being abused by these badly behaving spammers, criminals, jerks,

    Case in point, (there is no real way to contact JVzoo to report) either Criminal Behavior, Ethical Problems, DMCA issues, at the minimum any company or organization would necessarily need to have a minimum of communication available to customers of the platform.
    The biggest problem here (for JVzoo) is that they view (incorrectly) their customers as sellers, not buyers.

    They are terribly wrong in that ASSumption.

    I have repeatedly through great difficulty contacted them to let them know that not having a method of communication to report criminal activity and also spam, will create a juxtaposition where they will run into legal problems with the FTC it is only a matter of time, Ebay also faced this very same issue back in 2000 and though they don’t make it easy to contact them, (Ebay even now)

    If there is obviously something wrong with an item for sale, they have a way to report an infringing or illegal sale, Why did they change from an organization that

    Sees no Evil, Hears no Evil and Speaks no Evil?
    Simple, Ebay realized that they had a duty to those consumers under the Rules and Regulations of the FTC.

    They realized that they could not (Hide their heads in the sand) by saying that a sale made to a vendor was not their problem because it was not their customer.

    That was the original position that Ebay took on this issue.

    Head in the Sand, which is where JVzoo is right now. (head in the sand)

    You cant pretend that you don’t have any responsibility to the consumer here and that is something that they will either find a way to correct or they might one day soon face serious legal concerns.

    (Take a look at what is happening over at Clickbank) Look at what they are doing
    (revamping the marketplace along with several other things)

    If you are in the know there was a big shakeup over there and they are still working on ironing out issues.

    (its not perfect but over all you have to make a [Meaningful effort to communicate] else you will fail at building your business online)

    Simple as that just like the famous saying among academia circles, Publish or Perish, in this case its communicate or perish…

    So far I have received, 306 Spam Messages, from just one of these jerks, the person that is sending them I have no relationship with at all, but its a JVzoo affiliate.

    Then it spreads like a cancer, (I am now getting emails from other people of whom I also do not know nor have ever purchased anything from)

    All promoting JVzoo Affiliate products.

    I get 10 to 12 emails promoting the same products, (different Affiliates now right) but I don't know these people nor did I ever allow them to promote any JVZOO products.

    They have a little thing about how if THEY release a product, they can contact you, but that does not mean that when [anyone] releases a product, only the one person that you actually purchased a product from, not everyone,....

    I believe that JVZOO has a responsibility to open up a valid method of communicating this issue else like Robo Cop there will be trouble......

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