Is JVZoo Selling Buyers Lists?

by TDogger 56 replies
Over the past couple of months I have been deluged with JVZoo affiliate offers from people I have never done business with. The only email address getting hit is the one I use for WSO purchases. Other addresses that I use to sign up for early bird offers are not getting hit.

Either JVZoo or one of the major WSO players is selling lists of buyers. I've checked the headers on the messages and they are coming from all over the planet and clearly from different affiliate spammers. There are some common traits that indicate multiple messages are coming from some of the sources, but they must be using a network of spam servers.

Some days I get hit with dozens of unsolicited offers. I've accumulated a list of over 200 domains where the spam allegedly originates.

From my past experience, it doesn't do any good to click a link to opt out of spam emails. That only confirms the address and invites ten times more spam.

Is anyone else having this problem? Does anyone know who is selling the lists?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #buyers #jvzoo #lists #selling
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
    A lot of WF sellers have recently stumbled on the concept of a "co-reg" (co-registration) list and they're doing it all wrong. Some even promise to build other people's lists using this method which is even worse.

    In case you don't know, Coreg is when one vendor's optin form silently submits your date to several other optins in the background to 3rd party vendors. Usually in exchange for $$.

    I highly doubt it's JVZoo. It's more likely the sellers submitting your data during the transaction.

    OR...they're blatantly selling it. That's always possible as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
      Originally Posted by Jesus Perez View Post

      A lot of WF sellers have recently stumbled on the concept of a "co-reg" (co-registration) list and they're doing it all wrong. Some even promise to build other people's lists using this method which is even worse.

      In case you don't know, Coreg is when one vendor's optin form silently submits your date to several other optins in the background to 3rd party vendors. Usually in exchange for $$.

      I highly doubt it's JVZoo. It's more likely the sellers submitting your data during the transaction.

      OR...they're blatantly selling it. That's always possible as well.
      I've seen the sales page of the person I think you are referring to. They are selling lead packages and the way they are acquiring the leads is through setting up free WSOs on Warrior Plus.

      When you click the "buy now" button you are automatically added to their list because they can integrate their AR with Warrior Plus.

      I think what the person selling the packages is probably doing is just integrating the buyer's AR with their Warrior Plus account so that anyone who "purchases" the free WSO gets added to the buyer's list.

      If that's the way it's being done and they are only getting added to one list then technically I don't think it's co-reg. However, if they are getting added to the seller's list as well as the buyer's then it would be co-reg.

      I think ethically it's pretty borderline.
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      • Profile picture of the author Marc Rodill
        Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

        I think ethically it's pretty borderline.
        I couldn't see it as being very effective. I've noticed that PayPal email addresses are pretty non-responsive. I've gotten in the habit of sending personal emails to my customers purchase email. They almost never respond.
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  • Profile picture of the author JC Web
    I think it's more likely the vendors you are buying from that are selling your email, although there's certainly no way for me to say for sure it's not JVZoo. I know I have bought products and services in the past from people selling through both WarriorPlus and JVZoo and those vendors have definitely sold my address to spammers without my permission.

    I use different secondary email addresses for each purchase or put extra characters in my name so I can track who does this. Some of the "big names" are definitely guilty of this as well as some of the most well-spoken of people on this forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author TDogger
      Originally Posted by JC Web View Post

      Some of the "big names" are definitely guilty of this as well as some of the most well-spoken of people on this forum.
      I started receiving the same type of spammy WSO emails at another email address. I've only used that email for two WSO products I purchased over the years. Both products were sold by big name sellers at JV Zoo. They both are USA based and appear to be fairly good players. I would not have suspected either of selling email addresses, but one of them undoubtedly is.

      I plan to set a trap with two additional email addresses that will end up on their mailing lists. That way I can narrow it down and expose the rat who is doing this.
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  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    In hindsight, I should have used a throwaway email address for the contact email when processing the PayPal payment through JVZoo. I think that's the one that goes to the seller.

    I do use throwaway names when I sign up for webinars and early bird offers. Those emails have never been hit with this type of spam, so the problem is clearly someone who is selling a buyers list.

    I could tolerate one or two WSO offers from spammers per day, but when the number reached dozens, it was no longer tolerable.

    There is a pattern to a lot of the domain names. I suspect they may all be coming from 4 or 5 spammers using a worldwide email server network, or a list of compromised mailservers.

    The co-registration concept that Jesus mentioned is interesting. I suspect one of the sellers I purchased from is selling their list to the spammers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    JVZoo values it's list too much to cannibalize it. I would bet it's some one trick pony WSO seller.

    FYI Gmail allows you to put +anything after your username to allow future filtering.

    It's sad to see people buying and selling lists. I don't know how the spammers can keep sending so much mail in 2015.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Brad Gosse View Post

      It's sad to see people buying and selling lists. I don't know how the spammers can keep sending so much mail in 2015.
      It's pretty simple. Combine an ever-expanding series of botnets with servers located mostly in countries that crave hard currency without asking any questions, and the deluge continues to grow.
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  • Profile picture of the author Faisal-Rehman
    Maybe the vendors you are buying from that are selling your email. I bought a lot of products from CB, JVZoo and W+ but it never happened to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author keiran
      I've been meaning to post a question about this here myself.

      I also get emails from people I have never dealt with or heard of promoting various things. I got the idea that marketers were selling addresses (despite what they say) after I bought a product last year from a big name marketer and got flood of promotional emails shortly afterwards.

      One unexpectedly positive thing about this is that I get a number of emails from different marketers promoting the same product, usually around the same time if it's a launch. This has allowed me to see which approach I like, and which I don't, which is really helpful when writing promotional emails.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
        Originally Posted by keiran View Post

        I've been meaning to post a question about this here myself.

        I also get emails from people I have never dealt with or heard of promoting various things. I got the idea that marketers were selling addresses (despite what they say) after I bought a product last year from a big name marketer and got flood of promotional emails shortly afterwards.

        One unexpectedly positive thing about this is that I get a number of emails from different marketers promoting the same product, usually around the same time if it's a launch. This has allowed me to see which approach I like, and which I don't, which is really helpful when writing promotional emails.
        Right on, bro. But I got tired of doing that pretty damned quick. Now I relegate the "jump on's" to trash and blocks.

        I don't bother unsubscribing because the process is either ignored or you've now enrolled in yet another list that will be sold. It's called a responder list and is valuable because you've just proven you are susceptible to a call to action.

        Ain't marketing fun?

        - Annie
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  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    These are not just people selling various things. The emails promote the most popular WSOs. The emails look like any email you would get from a legitimate WSO seller you've purchased from in the past.

    I suspect this started with one WSO seller who is secretly selling lists. They are being run through a list of spam network mailservers or perhaps a group of compromised mailservers around the world.

    There is no consistency with IPs or mailservers. One email may come from a server in Uruguay, the next from the Philippines, the next from Brazil, and another from the USA, all using the same domain name. Some of the domains are not even registered. This means the information in the header is being spoofed.

    There is also a distinct pattern with some of the domain names used, which tends to make me believe that the group of spammers is small. Here is a sample of the repetition I see.

    @greensassassin.com
    @greenscrusher.com
    @greensdestroyer.com
    @greensdominator.com
    @greenseliminator.com
    @greenssupremacy.com

    @profitassassin.com
    @profitcrusher.com
    @profitdestroyer.com
    @profitdominator.com
    @profiteliminator.com

    @rulesassassin.com
    @rulescrusher.com
    @rulesdestroyer.com
    @rulesdominator.com
    @ruleseliminator.com
    @rulessupremacy.com

    This is both very unethical as well as annoying.
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    • Profile picture of the author coffeediva
      I am glad i found this post as I thought I was going a little crazy. It seems that my messages are breeding like Rabbits. So thinking there is a little bit of funny business going on. I am also finding that I am getting 3 or 4 messages that are exactly the same. they seem to be from a similar group so there must be some selling going on. I keep unsubscribing but like you say this also seems to have no effect.
      Lucky Gmail accounts lets you have oodles of space for emails
      Thanks for your post
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by coffeediva View Post

        I am glad i found this post as I thought I was going a little crazy. It seems that my messages are breeding like Rabbits. So thinking there is a little bit of funny business going on. I am also finding that I am getting 3 or 4 messages that are exactly the same. they seem to be from a similar group so there must be some selling going on. I keep unsubscribing but like you say this also seems to have no effect.
        Lucky Gmail accounts lets you have oodles of space for emails
        Thanks for your post
        Don't unsubscribe. All you do is verify that they have a live address. Since you're using Gmail, simply set up filters to send emails from the same sender directly to the junk folder so you never see them. That and keep reporting the spam.

        Eventually it all thins out.
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  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    Hi coffeediva,

    From my experience, unsubscribing from a spam list only gets you on 10 times more lists and the volume of spam goes on steroids. I only unsubscribe when I know the sender is legitimate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    I just ran into a seller on jvzoo, that is sending promotions to an email address not associated with jvzoo, this guy is a jvzoo seller, I have never purchased anything from him, 276 emails in a month.

    What bothers me here is that there is no way to contact JVzoo, that seems like an oversight and should be corrected.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adam Sussman
      Tim,

      You can contact JVZ here. JVZoo Support

      Its worth keeping some of the spam emails as JVZ may want the headers. In the past I have found them very helpful when it comes down to spammers.

      Adam
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  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    I have kept almost all the emails for study. The best way to block them is through the email filters in cPanel. That way, they never clog up your mobile devices.

    I add several more domain names to the filters every day, but that may be futile because so many of the domain names used in the email addresses are not even registered.

    The spammers are JVZoo affiliates. That's clearly how they make their money. I doubt if JVZoo would do anything, but they might be able to identify the culprits through the affiliate IDs. Even that appears to be masked through redirects.
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    • Profile picture of the author Zodiax
      I don't let it bother me.

      I just shutdown the email account and make another one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joan Altz
    JVZoo certainly isn't going to do that. They make money from sending your buyers offers from their daily promotions as affiliates. They won't jeopardize that opportunity by selling the buyers lists.
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    • Profile picture of the author TDogger
      Originally Posted by Joan Altz View Post

      JVZoo certainly isn't going to do that. They make money from sending your buyers offers from their daily promotions as affiliates. They won't jeopardize that opportunity by selling the buyers lists.
      Using that same logic, anyone who sells their lists would be jeopardizing their income stream. Yet, they still do it. Selling buyers lists can be very profitable.

      In this case, the guilty party is one of two very well known Warrior Forum sellers who I know have several very large lists. Perhaps they are selling the lists that have been less productive.

      I do not think it is JVZoo. At the time when I started this thread, JVZoo was the only common clue in all of the spam messages. Now that the spammers hit another of my email addresses, I have narrowed it down.

      It would be nice if JVZoo had a mechanism for reporting spammers, but that would not fit their business model.

      Originally Posted by Marc Rodill View Post

      I couldn't see it as being very effective. I've noticed that PayPal email addresses are pretty non-responsive. I've gotten in the habit of sending personal emails to my customers purchase email. They almost never respond.
      I agree that it's probably not effective, especially since most people will not buy anything from someone they do not know who sends them an offer via email. I suspect less than 1% of email recipients respond with a purchase. But 1% of 50,000 emails is still 500 affiliate sales that they could not have earned any other way.

      The WSO emails are coming from professional spammers. When I check the email headers I find that they are bouncing each message through up to 4 different email servers in an attempt to hide the origin. The important part is to look at the first mailserver data, not the last mailserver.
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      • Profile picture of the author rts2271
        100% sure it's a vendors thing. JVZoo wouldn't play that I am sure. They handle their business with absolute integrity.
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      • Profile picture of the author Adam Sussman
        Originally Posted by TDogger View Post


        It would be nice if JVZoo had a mechanism for reporting spammers, but that would not fit their business model.
        They do. Its not one click or anything like that. But if you let them know via their help desk they are very helpful, and they do look into it.


        Originally Posted by TDogger View Post


        The WSO emails are coming from professional spammers. When I check the email headers I find that they are bouncing each message through up to 4 different email servers in an attempt to hide the origin. The important part is to look at the first mailserver data, not the last mailserver.
        They can also deal with the spammer via their affiliate link.
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        • Profile picture of the author eholmlund
          Originally Posted by Adam Sussman View Post

          They do. Its not one click or anything like that. But if you let them know via their help desk they are very helpful, and they do look into it.

          They can also deal with the spammer via their affiliate link.
          I would NOT say that counts as a mechanism for reporting spammers. I have been deluged with spam for JVzoo products. I went to their site to report it. Within their TOS there is NO place to report spam. At their helpdesk there is NO option to report spam. At their Contact Us page there is NO option to report spam.

          The only options listed on their site are:

          =========
          Did you purchase a product (NOT hosting - see below for hosting)?

          Are you product Vendor?

          Are you a Affiliate? (promoting products on JVZoo.com)?

          Having trouble with JVZoo Hosting?
          =========

          So which one is a spam victim supposed to select to report spam? For someone who is not a customer, vendor, or affiliate there is definitely no option.

          If you click one of those options and then skip the knowledge base, you are then taken to their helpdesk (https://jvzoo.zendesk.com/hc/en-us) which has 3 options:

          =========
          Affiliates and JV Partners
          Sellers
          Customers
          =========

          They clearly do not seem to want the general public to be able to report spam.

          In searching the helpdesk knowledge base for "spam" there are zero results.

          PLEASE NOTE...
          I am an affiliate on JVzoo having generating tens of thousands of dollars of sales there, and also a customer, having purchased many products via JVzoo. I've even recommended it as a good platform for newbie vendors in the IM space, due to the ability to attract affiliates. I have also been happy to see many of their improvements.

          HOWEVER...
          This is a problem that I think needs to be addressed immediately. Thus the reason for posting here in the WF.
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          • Profile picture of the author infinite
            Originally Posted by eholmlund View Post

            I would NOT say that counts as a mechanism for reporting spammers. I have been deluged with spam for JVzoo products. I went to their site to report it. Within their TOS there is NO place to report spam. At their helpdesk there is NO option to report spam. At their Contact Us page there is NO option to report spam.

            The only options listed on their site are:

            =========
            Did you purchase a product (NOT hosting - see below for hosting)?

            Are you product Vendor?

            Are you a Affiliate? (promoting products on JVZoo.com)?

            Having trouble with JVZoo Hosting?
            =========

            So which one is a spam victim supposed to select to report spam? For someone who is not a customer, vendor, or affiliate there is definitely no option.

            If you click one of those options and then skip the knowledge base, you are then taken to their helpdesk (https://jvzoo.zendesk.com/hc/en-us) which has 3 options:

            =========
            Affiliates and JV Partners
            Sellers
            Customers
            =========

            They clearly do not seem to want the general public to be able to report spam.

            In searching the helpdesk knowledge base for "spam" there are zero results.

            PLEASE NOTE...
            I am an affiliate on JVzoo having generating tens of thousands of dollars of sales there, and also a customer, having purchased many products via JVzoo. I've even recommended it as a good platform for newbie vendors in the IM space, due to the ability to attract affiliates. I have also been happy to see many of their improvements.

            HOWEVER...
            This is a problem that I think needs to be addressed immediately. Thus the reason for posting here in the WF.
            Hey Eric

            I agree that it was hard to find where to contact them regarding spammers.

            Furthermore, whilst the staff I have dealt with seem friendly and dedicated enough, they say they need to forward the info on to management for them to deal with. I have received no less than TEN emails from one spammer TODAY ALONE and I provided them his ID along with an absolute TON of proof back on 19 November (after the initial ID was suspended - which took about two weeks of me contacting JVZoo - and then they simply got a new ID) and I am still waiting for them to actually take any action against them.

            I contacted them initially because I was concerned that it would damage the reputation of JVZoo.com and its GENUINE affiliates (which I have been from time to time) however I am now frustrated because my inbox keeps being bombarded by these spammers and don't like to think that they are making money by spamming.

            I'm not holding my breath that this guy will get shut down any time soon. :-(

            Aaron
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            • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
              Originally Posted by infinite View Post

              Hey Eric

              I agree that it was hard to find where to contact them regarding spammers.

              Furthermore, whilst the staff I have dealt with seem friendly and dedicated enough, they say they need to forward the info on to management for them to deal with. I have received no less than TEN emails from one spammer TODAY ALONE and I provided them his ID along with an absolute TON of proof back on 19 November (after the initial ID was suspended - which took about two weeks of me contacting JVZoo - and then they simply got a new ID) and I am still waiting for them to actually take any action against them.

              I contacted them initially because I was concerned that it would damage the reputation of JVZoo.com and its GENUINE affiliates (which I have been from time to time) however I am now frustrated because my inbox keeps being bombarded by these spammers and don't like to think that they are making money by spamming.

              I'm not holding my breath that this guy will get shut down any time soon. :-(

              Aaron
              What more do they need? The emails, which leads to the spammers affiliate ID.

              Lucky for me, 99% hits the junk folder. Probably because so many others have reported it, or marked it as junk or spam.

              Sure would be nice if some one from JVzoo would step in here to clear things up.
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  • Profile picture of the author ghost209
    If you're getting spammed, did not opt in, and have no way to unsubscribe.. Then they are violating Can-Spam rules and can be sued for large sums of money.

    First, I would grab their link, share it with JV Zoo / vendor and report it. They'll probably get banned.

    If you follow that link, see if you can figure out what their affiliate id is. It may be in the Hoplink URL, it could be on the checkout / footer page..

    You could use that to track down who is doing it.
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    • Profile picture of the author TDogger
      Originally Posted by ghost209 View Post

      If you're getting spammed, did not opt in, and have no way to unsubscribe.. Then they are violating Can-Spam rules and can be sued for large sums of money.
      Not if the spammers are located outside the USA. Can-Spam is only good for prosecuting USA spammers. Even though all the evidence points to one of two USA JVZoo sellers as being the source of the email lists, if they are not sending the emails themselves, I don't think they can be prosecuted.

      Plus, only a fool would click on an opt-out link from a spammer. That just confirms your email address and pretty much guarantees a 10x increase in spam. None of these messages come from legitimate email services, such as AWeber, MailChimp or Get Response.

      A check of the IPs for the mailserver sources indicates that most are coming from spam servers in France and Germany, although a few are coming from USA and Eastern European sources. The headers are being spoofed for some of the spam. A large number of the return email domain names are not registered and some IPs show up as invalid.

      Originally Posted by ghost209 View Post

      First, I would grab their link, share it with JV Zoo / vendor and report it. They'll probably get banned.

      If you follow that link, see if you can figure out what their affiliate id is. It may be in the Hoplink URL, it could be on the checkout / footer page..

      You could use that to track down who is doing it.
      This may be good advice. I'll check it out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    WhereGoes? - A tool for tracing the redirect path of URLs helps to figure out cloaked links final destination.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Tony Dean
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      WhereGoes? - A tool for tracing the redirect path of URLs helps to figure out cloaked links final destination.

      Mark
      Thanks for the link.
      I too have had spam emails and just peruse the header info and find a host name and contact the webhost provider together with full header and the spam stops.
      You get more from elsewhere and you rinse and repeat, before long there is no more spam in my email inbox or the spam folder.
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  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    Mark, that looks like a useful tool. The links in these messages are cloaked, which is why I did not click on them in the past.

    I will have to check a large number of links to see if there is a pattern of repeat abuse that I can report to JVZoo.

    I'm redirecting all the spam sources I've identified via cPanel. I'm currently getting 100 to 200 JVZoo spam messages per day. I'd call that a clear case of abuse.

    Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author TDogger
    I managed to block about 95% of the spam through cPanel. The latest round of WSO spam came from a jerk with servers in Lithuania and Turkey. He was using more than 50 different domain names, but it was easy to block the IP addresses used by the mailservers.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    Lately I have been getting emails from lots of marketers that I KNOW I did not subscribe to. I'm not really sure what's going on because it's only started happening in the last 3 or 4 weeks. I think it could be that maybe somebody is just using my email to subscribe to different lists to get the free stuff that is being offered. As lots of marketers use single opt-in, that could explain it.

    Whatever the cause it sure is annoying.
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    • Profile picture of the author JC Web
      Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

      Lately I have been getting emails from lots of marketers that I KNOW I did not subscribe to. I'm not really sure what's going on because it's only started happening in the last 3 or 4 weeks. I think it could be that maybe somebody is just using my email to subscribe to different lists to get the free stuff that is being offered. As lots of marketers use single opt-in, that could explain it.

      Whatever the cause it sure is annoying.
      That's the least likely option. Someone would just make up an email address in that case. The two most likely options are that someone has sold your address or that they are entering it in PPL programs to make money off of it. I caught someone lots of people on this forum admire entering my email into PPL programs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
    I have been getting slammed with them as well.

    Sadly, from my experience, JVZoo, doesn't do anything about it. I've tried reporting many of the emails, but they just keep coming. You'd think they "should" cut of their account. And it's quite easy to see it's the same person spamming every time. They use a different "name" each time, but you can tell it's all from one person/group/what-have-you.

    Wouldn't be as much spam if the money was cut off.
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    • Profile picture of the author infinite
      Originally Posted by Ron Killian View Post

      I have been getting slammed with them as well.

      Sadly, from my experience, JVZoo, doesn't do anything about it. I've tried reporting many of the emails, but they just keep coming. You'd think they "should" cut of their account. And it's quite easy to see it's the same person spamming every time. They use a different "name" each time, but you can tell it's all from one person/group/what-have-you.

      Wouldn't be as much spam if the money was cut off.
      I agree wholeheartedly Ron! I have been in the same boat - have 2-3 pages of replies to and fro in a support ticket which has dragged on for OVER A MONTH now about 1 particular spammer that has been BOMBARDING ME using different from names, and several different JVZoo affiliate IDs but they have yet to actually ban the spammer - despite the mountains of proof I have provided them.

      Seems they are not really that interested in fixing the issue or certainly in no hurry to do so.

      Sadly this spammer is probably cashing in from unsuspecting people in the meantime.

      Cheers

      Aaron
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
        Originally Posted by infinite View Post

        I agree wholeheartedly Ron! I have been in the same boat - have 2-3 pages of replies to and fro in a support ticket which has dragged on for OVER A MONTH now about 1 particular spammer that has been BOMBARDING ME using different from names, and several different JVZoo affiliate IDs but they have yet to actually ban the spammer - despite the mountains of proof I have provided them.

        Seems they are not really that interested in fixing the issue or certainly in no hurry to do so.

        Sadly this spammer is probably cashing in from unsuspecting people in the meantime.

        Cheers

        Aaron
        Most people would think that is then all about the money. If the spammer is making sales and making them money, they don't want lose the gravy train. If they don't ban them, what else is there to think?

        It makes you wonder, how is this person even getting approved to promote? Unless it's all on delay. Which I doubt.
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        • Profile picture of the author infinite
          Originally Posted by Ron Killian View Post

          Most people would think that is then all about the money. If the spammer is making sales and making them money, they don't want lose the gravy train. If they don't ban them, what else is there to think?

          It makes you wonder, how is this person even getting approved to promote? Unless it's all on delay. Which I doubt.
          Unfortunately, as much as I hate to say it, this does increasingly appear the case. I see that ID's I sent them OVER A MONTH AGO have not been suspended and although the spam from those IDs has dropped off a fair bit they are still active. :-(
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    @infinite & other interested parties.

    This is the real problem, (since JVzoo will not or refuses to communicate with its customers in any meaningful way, it is actually JVzoo that is at the heart of this issue.

    Meaning that the bad behaving players, (those that are selling emails to unscrupulous spammers) or spamming you anyway.

    They are free to spam you all day long, why not they know that JVzoo is like Pontus Pilot, [washing their hands] of the customers concerns or problems.

    These spammers know that JVZoo is incommunicado, they know that there is almost no method of contacting JVzoo to let them know that consumers are being abused by these badly behaving spammers, criminals, jerks,

    Case in point, (there is no real way to contact JVzoo to report) either Criminal Behavior, Ethical Problems, DMCA issues, at the minimum any company or organization would necessarily need to have a minimum of communication available to customers of the platform.
    The biggest problem here (for JVzoo) is that they view (incorrectly) their customers as sellers, not buyers.

    They are terribly wrong in that ASSumption.

    I have repeatedly through great difficulty contacted them to let them know that not having a method of communication to report criminal activity and also spam, will create a juxtaposition where they will run into legal problems with the FTC it is only a matter of time, Ebay also faced this very same issue back in 2000 and though they don’t make it easy to contact them, (Ebay even now)

    If there is obviously something wrong with an item for sale, they have a way to report an infringing or illegal sale, Why did they change from an organization that

    Sees no Evil, Hears no Evil and Speaks no Evil?
    Simple, Ebay realized that they had a duty to those consumers under the Rules and Regulations of the FTC.

    They realized that they could not (Hide their heads in the sand) by saying that a sale made to a vendor was not their problem because it was not their customer.

    That was the original position that Ebay took on this issue.

    Head in the Sand, which is where JVzoo is right now. (head in the sand)

    You cant pretend that you don’t have any responsibility to the consumer here and that is something that they will either find a way to correct or they might one day soon face serious legal concerns.

    (Take a look at what is happening over at Clickbank) Look at what they are doing
    (revamping the marketplace along with several other things)

    If you are in the know there was a big shakeup over there and they are still working on ironing out issues.

    (its not perfect but over all you have to make a [Meaningful effort to communicate] else you will fail at building your business online)

    Simple as that just like the famous saying among academia circles, Publish or Perish, in this case its communicate or perish…

    So far I have received, 306 Spam Messages, from just one of these jerks, the person that is sending them I have no relationship with at all, but its a JVzoo affiliate.

    Then it spreads like a cancer, (I am now getting emails from other people of whom I also do not know nor have ever purchased anything from)

    All promoting JVzoo Affiliate products.

    I get 10 to 12 emails promoting the same products, (different Affiliates now right) but I don't know these people nor did I ever allow them to promote any JVZOO products.

    They have a little thing about how if THEY release a product, they can contact you, but that does not mean that when [anyone] releases a product, only the one person that you actually purchased a product from, not everyone,....

    I believe that JVZOO has a responsibility to open up a valid method of communicating this issue else like Robo Cop there will be trouble......

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  • Profile picture of the author infinite
    Well.... 11 emails TODAY from just one affiliate and I still have 3 more hours of my day to go! Once again I have contacted JVZoo support but unfortunately their support staff have to escalate these complaints to "management" however it really does appear that management are not "managing" the issue at all well. Not once in over 5 weeks of to and fro replies to their support desk have I heard anything from management about how they are addressing these issues.

    I'd happily just block these spammers however they send from a different address every time, have different "from names" and change their physical address in the "unsubscribe" link every email. Plus, there's a more important moral issue at stake here - I hate to think that these guys are cashing in with such illegal methods whilst other affiliates are trying to do the right thing and suffer as a result.

    I even showed support a copy of the below email that had obviously been incorrectly formatted (a glitch in their automated software which works in a similar manner to an article spinner I am guessing) - showing categorically that they were just out and out spamming.


    and the "unsubscribe link" was formatted:


    Not sure what else I could do here!

    Aaron
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    • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
      Originally Posted by infinite View Post

      Well.... 11 emails TODAY from just one affiliate and I still have 3 more hours of my day to go!
      This is most likely a "churn & burn" marketer who will get their account banned by their AR and then come over to WF and put up a thread about how they were unjustly persecuted and had their whole business destroyed by the "tyrants" at the AR company.

      That aside, I agree with some of the points I've seen here about JVZoo customer service. While I do not find them hard to contact, and have received replies to my tickets about 90% of the time, I can't say I was thrilled with the quality and the reasoning of some of the answers I received.

      I always catch people using the JVZoo new launches directory to promote Clickbank products and it absolutely burns my ass because I go there to look for quality products to promote. It's a total waste of my time when I click on a product only to find out that it's actually a Clickbank product and was not created by the person who listed it. The way they achieve this is to enter their Clickbank hop link in the box where the sales page URL should go had they been listing a product they actually owned.

      It's a highly shady tactic, undoubtedly taught by a highly shady "marketer." I doubt that it achieves little more than pissing people off. I guess maybe they do get some traffic because it also gets listed in their marketplace, but how valuable could that traffic actually be? Seems a total waste of time to me. Not to mention it's wrong.

      Well anyway, back on track, the reason I brought it up is because I have put in several tickets to JVZoo to make them aware that people are abusing and misusing their platform, and I mostly got generic answers claiming that they would "look into it." I would check back after a few days and notice that they had removed the one listing that I alerted them to, but the 100+ other listings that this person put up were still there! What's worse, people continue to do this unchecked. Finally I just gave up and figured if they don't care then why should I?

      Anyway, I think maybe the owners should look into either hiring a better company to handle their customer service, if that's how they do it, or hiring better staff in general if they work directly for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
    I wouldn't be surprised if every part of the operation was automated.

    Just like any spamming, it will go on till the money is cut off. And in these case, since no one has stated otherwise, we can guess they are making jvzoo too much money to do anything about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    I can assure you, with 100% certainty, that JVZoo does not sell or share any contact information.

    JVZoo does not sell products. We provide software that allows others to set up sales funnels and recruit affiliates. This software makes it easy for vendors to create a list of their buyers so they can reach out to them after the sale. A smart vendor would cherish this list and treat it with kit gloves, however that is not always the case.

    While we cannot stop vendors from sharing their own contact lists, we can take action against spammers that are promoting JVZoo affiliate links. If you are certain you are receiving marketing emails that are promoting JVZoo affiliate links from someone you have not given consent to, we want to know about it.

    If you feel you are being contacted by someone you have never done business with or opted in with and they are promoting an affiliate link for a product on the JVZoo system, please send an email to support@jvzoo.com. Be sure and paste a copy of the offending email (with headers, if possible) in your message.

    Some things to consider before reporting:

    - We cannot take action against spammers that are not using JVZoo.
    - If you bought a product on JVZoo the seller has your contact info. Please be sure you are not reporting that seller.
    - Please be sure you have not previously opted into the sender's email list and given permission to contact you.

    If you are receiving spam from someone using an autoresponder, such as Aweber, Getresponse, Mailchimp, etc, we encourage you to click the unsubscribe button at the bottom of the email. I might add that although we research every spam complaint we receive, sometimes it is a matter of the person reporting the spam didn't realize the name of the vendor they made a purchase from or they thought they were buying product directly from JVZoo. Other times, it is a matter of someone forgetting they opted into or not realizing they opted into a mailing list when they downloaded a free report. And, of course, sometimes it is a bonafide case of spam.

    We take this matter very seriously and suspend the accounts of unauthorized spammers. The amount of sales an offender has made is not a consideration. If you break the law, you get suspended. It's that simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author infinite
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      I can assure you, with 100% certainty, that JVZoo does not sell or share any contact information.

      JVZoo does not sell products. We provide software that allows others to set up sales funnels and recruit affiliates. This software makes it easy for vendors to create a list of their buyers so they can reach out to them after the sale. A smart vendor would cherish this list and treat it with kit gloves, however that is not always the case.

      While we cannot stop vendors from sharing their own contact lists, we can take action against spammers that are promoting JVZoo affiliate links. If you are certain you are receiving marketing emails that are promoting JVZoo affiliate links from someone you have not given consent to, we want to know about it.

      If you feel you are being contacted by someone you have never done business with or opted in with and they are promoting an affiliate link for a product on the JVZoo system, please send an email to support@jvzoo.com. Be sure and paste a copy of the offending email (with headers, if possible) in your message.

      Some things to consider before reporting:

      - We cannot take action against spammers that are not using JVZoo.
      - If you bought a product on JVZoo the seller has your contact info. Please be sure you are not reporting that seller.
      - Please be sure you have not previously opted into the sender's email list and given permission to contact you.

      If you are receiving spam from someone using an autoresponder, such as Aweber, Getresponse, Mailchimp, etc, we encourage you to click the unsubscribe button at the bottom of the email. I might add that although we research every spam complaint we receive, sometimes it is a matter of the person reporting the spam didn't realize the name of the vendor they made a purchase from or they thought they were buying product directly from JVZoo. Other times, it is a matter of someone forgetting they opted into or not realizing they opted into a mailing list when they downloaded a free report. And, of course, sometimes it is a bonafide case of spam.

      We take this matter very seriously and suspend the accounts of unauthorized spammers. The amount of sales an offender has made is not a consideration. If you break the law, you get suspended. It's that simple.
      Hi E. Brian Rose

      Thanks for coming on here and replying to the concerns here. it is much appreciated.

      I submitted a ticket (# 10006) at JVZoo support in regard to a case of spam back on 2nd November but I am still receiving spam from this particular individual.

      I have sent probably 30-40 copies of emails now (with headers) and (what I believe) is solid proof that they are simply spamming:

      1. Completely different "from names" in each email they send.
      2. Reply addresses that simply bounce.
      3. Different "unsubscribe" links in each email. (the unsubscribe links do not work either)
      4. Different physical address in each email.
      4. The exact same formatting of each email they send.

      On November 24, 2015 08:09 I posted to the ticket an email that had obviously been sent accidentally from their software before it was "rotated". A copy of that email is in post #44 on this thread.

      Nearly 3 weeks later, this affiliate is still active and I am receiving up to 15 emails a day from them.

      My suggestion, which I have made in the ticket, is to make it EASIER for people to report spam. I think others here have also suggested that this is part of the problem. Also - if an "affiliate" is allowed to continue spamming for 3 weeks after fairly solid proof is provided, then they will simply setup a new ID once banned. If however, the affiliate is banned almost immediately, they will only do it once or twice and then move on.

      My intention when submitting my ticket was to PROTECT the JVZoo platform - for both affiliates and sellers and for yourself. I was certain that if I submitted the proof I had, that this individual would be shut down almost immediately. I even offered (if there was any doubt) to allow someone to Teamviewer into my PC and show them. I even made a YouTube video and submitted the link to show the issue.

      Unfortunately that affiliate still seems to have an active ID and is still sending me spam with JVzoo links despite everything I have tried to do to fix the issue.

      Can you please look into my ticket?

      Thanks!

      Aaron
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
      Ok, Im going to play the part of the Devil here,

      (my apologies in advance if offense is taken, it is meant as a constructive interview process)

      I see things differently here and I think that as a matter of legality, that there is a right way and a wrong way to go about this and if you have to fudge and make excuses then you should examine your motives for doing so…

      Having said that, the greatest thing a man can do for you is to help you see into a situation where you might not currently be seeing things from the right perspective As a matter of course and proper disclosure, (I have consulted with several large corporate structures in regard to this very issue…) So while my perspective is unique it is also proven.

      So while this may seem sort of aggressive and some may say rude, it is not meant that way.

      ================
      one last caveat, the old saying never ask a question you don't know the answer to, it applies here...


      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      I can assure you, with 100% certainty, that JVZoo does not sell or share any contact information.

      Agree, but my objection here is that your not taking any action to prevent this from happening…

      (which is the main reason why when selling on Ebay, you cant do this either)

      Ebay does not provide email addresses or other contact information as a part of doing business with Ebay or its subscribers, period, there is a reason why Ebay does not allow contact information to be shared in this way.

      Because Ebay knows that this would be abused and so they took steps to insulate the buyer from the seller.

      (I am confused here, are you saying that JVZoo does allow its sellers to obtain and use this information without revealing this to buyers before they are presented with the paypal payment portal?)
      JVZoo does not sell products. We provide software that allows others to set up sales funnels and recruit affiliates. This software makes it easy for vendors to create a list of their buyers so they can reach out to them after the sale. A smart vendor would cherish this list and treat it with kit gloves, however that is not always the case.

      Ebay, Amazon, As well as just about every single serious (Corporate entity in business today, does NOT provide this [convenient list building feature with built in potential for abuse i.e. potential for selling a list made up of JVzoo buyers, to spammers who want to pay for a list of confirmed purchasers of a product, ?)

      While we cannot stop vendors from sharing their own contact lists, we can take action against spammers that are promoting JVZoo affiliate links. If you are certain you are receiving marketing emails that are promoting JVZoo affiliate links from someone you have not given consent to, we want to know about it.

      My apologies in advance but that seems sort of short sighted, considering that eventually people will connect the dots, realize that there is little or no protection from abuse when purchasing JVzoo products, just saying is that not why your here right now and why other people are here right now? (this is the entire reason why this thread exists,) (it is also the reason why Click bankus or a similarly named corporate entity is retooling their entire sales process)
      If you feel you are being contacted by someone you have never done business with or opted in with and they are promoting an affiliate link for a product on the JVZoo system, please send an email to support@jvzoo.com. Be sure and paste a copy of the offending email (with headers, if possible) in your message.

      Again, I am not sure I understand exactly where in the JVzoo terms of service it states that buyers may expect as part of the sales process to be subjected to becoming a part of a buyers list in order to use the JVzoo sales process to purchase a product? (not being mean here just wondering if perhaps a [Legal] review of the JVzoo terms of service may be in order?
      Some things to consider before reporting:

      - We cannot take action against spammers that are not using JVZoo.
      - If you bought a product on JVZoo the seller has your contact info. Please be sure you are not reporting that seller.
      - Please be sure you have not previously opted into the sender's email list and given permission to contact you.

      If you are receiving spam from someone using an autoresponder, such as Aweber, Getresponse, Mailchimp, etc, we encourage you to click the unsubscribe button at the bottom of the email. I might add that although we research every spam complaint we receive, sometimes it is a matter of the person reporting the spam didn't realize the name of the vendor they made a purchase from or they thought they were buying product directly from JVZoo. Other times, it is a matter of someone forgetting they opted into or not realizing they opted into a mailing list when they downloaded a free report. And, of course, sometimes it is a bonafide case of spam.

      We take this matter very seriously and suspend the accounts of unauthorized spammers. The amount of sales an offender has made is not a consideration. If you break the law, you get suspended. It's that simple.
      Awesome, why not provide this information in a convenient location on the JVzoo website?
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Originally Posted by TDogger View Post

    Does anyone know who is selling the lists?

    Everyone,

    Obviously the OP has no idea where the spam is coming from yet he has suggested in his thread title that JVZoo might be the culprit. You have heard from JVZoo's owner that his business would never sell email lists.

    What I want to point out here is the damage that can be done to a business by the careless use of someone's business name in a thread. This thread title is now circulating the Internet and raising questions in people's minds even though JVZoo doesn't warrant the bad publicity.

    Which brings me to the point of suggesting there is a very valid and important reasons for this #1 Rule of the forum posted years ago by Admin (probably Allen):



    "MAIN FORUM RULE

    If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions."


    I believe this rule should be in place to protect both persons (Warriors) and their businesses. Warriors break this rule all the time without caring what they might be doing to innocent members and their businesses.

    Sometimes complaints are legitimate . . . sometimes not. The problem is, how do you know which is which?

    You don't!

    And that, my Warrior friends, is the reason why Rule #1 is so important.

    If you have a problem, take it up with the offending party and stop needlessly drawing negative attention to Warriors and their businesses.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
    One thing that confuses me, if it is determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that an affiliate is spamming, why do they only get suspended? Why wouldn't they be banned? All I saw mentioned was suspended. I could understand if it wasn't 100% positive, and it needed to be verified. But several people in this thread have reported this spam. Not much doubt left.

    Also, smart spammers are not going to use services like Aweber or Getresponse, which is the case for the spam people have reported or talked about in this thread, so that's not going to be a way to stop or slow them down. And they know this.
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    • Profile picture of the author TDogger
      Originally Posted by Ron Killian View Post

      Also, smart spammers are not going to use services like Aweber or Getresponse, which is the case for the spam people have reported or talked about in this thread, so that's not going to be a way to stop or slow them down. And they know this.
      This is not true in my case, and I started this thread. I have not received a single spam message out of the 100 to 200 per day that came from Aweber, Get Response or any legitimate email marketing service. I know who those messages come from.

      It's easy to opt out from the legitimate services, but trying to opt out from spammers just increases the amount or spam you receive. Someone is selling their buyer lists and the spammers are moving the lists to their own servers. I don't consider messages from legitimate sources to be spam because 1) I signed up for the list, and 2) it's easy to get off a list.

      Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

      I guess JVZoo is taking this pretty seriously because when I just logged in to my account there was a memo warning against spamming and deceptive practices. They warn if they catch you that your account will be terminated instantly.

      Good for them. I think that's the stance they needed to take on this. I just hope they follow through.
      That's good news. I have managed to block the IP addresses and domains of literally hundreds of spam servers through cPanel. The amount of spam that I am now getting is down to a trickle. However, I will forward any new messages I receive to the email address Brian provided. Thanks, Brian.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    I guess JVZoo is taking this pretty seriously because when I just logged in to my account there was a memo warning against spamming and deceptive practices. They warn if they catch you that your account will be terminated instantly.

    Good for them. I think that's the stance they needed to take on this. I just hope they follow through.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
      Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

      I guess JVZoo is taking this pretty seriously because when I just logged in to my account there was a memo warning against spamming and deceptive practices. They warn if they catch you that your account will be terminated instantly.

      Good for them. I think that's the stance they needed to take on this. I just hope they follow through.
      Just saw the same thing myself. Surprise, surprise huh? I agree, hope they follow though.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Regarding Aweber, my experience is that sometimes the initial signup is using Aweber. That gives a sense of trust since we know Aweber will definitely unsubscribe us.

    Then when we do, they export the list to another provider or to their own hosted system. At that point Aweber can do nothing about it.

    Mark

    PS The next thread needs to be titled "Is Warrior Plus Selling Buyers Lists?"
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    • Profile picture of the author TDogger
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Regarding Aweber, my experience is that sometimes the initial signup is using Aweber. That gives a sense of trust since we know Aweber will definitely unsubscribe us.
      That fits with what I have seen, as well. I strongly suspect one (or both) of two major players is selling their lists. I know they use either Aweber or Get Response. One of my email addresses that got hit hard with JVZoo spam was only on the lists for these two guys. I have since opted out of all their lists and will no longer purchase anything from either of them.

      If they've seen this thread, and the spam warnings posted in JVZoo, I suspect they've already ceased selling their lists. Their business models are too dependent on JVZoo.

      Due to the fact that I got hit so hard with spam, my suspicions tell me that the lists may have found their way to the dark web sites that the hard core spammers use.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        Really???

        Originally Posted by TDogger View Post

        Their business models are too dependent on JVZoo.

        I suspect their business models may be more dependent on selling the buyer's lists.

        JVZoo is only one marketplace where they can offer cheap products to help them develop those buyers lists, so don't let your guard down yet.
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