Mentor and Coaching

9 years ago

Let the PM Storm begin!!

Scott, William, Whitton, Will Wheaton, whatever your name really is...

This was a bad idea.

But I'll let you figure that out for yourself.

Start thinking about how you can separate flakes from people who know what they're talking about.

If all you've done is gone through a single course, you're not ready to shell out serious money for coaching. You don't know enough. You aren't able to discern what's good and what's bad.

I'm sure there will be many people PMing you claiming they'll get you results. And that all you have to do is get on a quick call with them.

If you do, to your newbie ears everything they say will probably sound astounding.

But you have nothing to compare it to.

We ALL want to be making money as fast as possible.

Slow down.

The map is not the territory.

Get some sense of where you are, first.

The best coaches (and I am NOT an SEO coach) aren't waiting around. They won't be messaging you. YOU have to go find THEM.

But since you're not in a position to know what is good or bad for you yet...and your post tells me so...just wait. Keep studying. Otherwise you're likely to get taken for your "investment."

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Digital00

9 years ago

hope you have a big pm box. I wouldn't say its a good idea coming out with a plea like that on here. I would suggest figuring out what it is that you would like to get mentoring on and then finding someone legit to get mentored from. Is it learning SEO? or affiliate marketing in general? Do your homework first and get to know some of the good guys on this forum which I believe are very few compared to 5-10 years ago. I trust only maybe a couple guys on here with SEO so do your due diligence.

Thanks

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Tom Addams

9 years ago

Hi Scott,

Not wishing to put any coach out of business, myself included, but a lot of the time coaching isn't required. As Fox Mulder used to say, and will again soon since they're filming a new X-Files series, "The Truth is Out There." Fox was right. Most of the answers - especially when we're talking SEO, website creation, and affiliate marketing - can be found across resources like Warrior Forum, other communities just like it, and thousands of relevant blogs. So, not to tell you your business, and only wishing to perhaps save you some money, I would honestly think about it before jumping into a coaching or mentorship program.

There are distinct benefits to coaching, of course. You have a coach who is, effectively, on your team, Team Scott, whose job is to try and bring about your success. If success is attained, because it really is down to the student as much as the coach, then often it comes sooner than going it alone. The right coach should have the right answers. Thus, fewer mistakes are made, manageable goals are reached much quicker. In essence - "you get what you pay for." For some people, this is the ideal approach. Not all of us are comfortable sifting through the web and connecting the dots; others, well, some people thrive on the DIY experience.

If and when you do decide to take the plunge, here's some advice:

1. Select the "right" coach for the job. We can't, in short, all be good at everything. For instance, I'm utterly wonderful a making popping noises with my tongue; utterly terrible at break-dancing. In practical terms - you want an expert in the fields you want to learn. Obvious, I know.

2. If you can, hire a coach through a forum like WF. The posts people make on forums are, in effect, an ongoing resume. You can get a good feel for the intended coach. His or her expertise, breadth of knowledge, and whether or not they seem agreeable to you. Coaching can go on for months, after all, and you want to feel confident that you're going to enjoy their virtual company.

3. Testimonials. The real test of a coach is what other people think about them. Any coach worth his salt can put together a convincing sales page, but what do the students say?

4. Interview. A good coach should interview you as much as you interview them. Reason being: some potential students are simply not cut out for IM. Let no one convince you that IM is easy. Most assuredly it is not. It requires time, work, creativity, and the kind of effort that makes regular jobs seem like a walk in the park. And - most important - you do need to bring some qualities to the table, not necessarily IM qualities (it can be things as simple as being literate or having imagination and drive), but bring them, you must. So! if a coach fails to interview you, then - my advice - walk away.

5. Time to think. Shop around and consider. A good coach will receive your email or message, have a chat (interview), and then just let things be. He won't pressure you for a decision. A student pressured into a coaching program is a bad student to have. A stressed student. And imparting knowledge is all the more difficult when the student is less than receptive.

6. Results. Your coaching relationship should be defined by results. You can never ask for any promises, and neither can a coach give them, but you should be working towards goals and aiming to attain results. Before you even sign up, it's important to make it clear (as you have done in your OP) that you are goal-oriented and "This is what I want to achieve."

Righto. All the best!

- Tom

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Jason Kanigan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Addams

Hi William,

Not wishing to put any coach out of business, myself included, but a lot of the time coaching isn't required. As Fox Mulder used to say, and will again soon since they're filming a new X-Files series, "The Truth is Out There." Fox was right. Most of the answers - especially when we're talking SEO, website creation, and affiliate marketing - can be found across resources like Warrior Forum, other communities just like it, and thousands of relevant blogs. So, not to tell you your business, and only wishing to perhaps save you some money, I would honestly think about it before jumping into a coaching or mentorship program.

There are distinct benefits to coaching, of course. You have a coach who is, effectively, on your team, Team William, and whose job it is to try to bring about your success. If success is attained, because it really is down to the student as much as the coach, then often it comes sooner than going it alone. The right coach should have the right answers. Thus, fewer mistakes are made, manageable goals are reached much quicker. In essence - "you get what you pay for." For some people, this is the ideal approach. Not all of us are comfortable sifting through the web and connecting the dots; others, well, some people thrive on the DIY experience.

If and when you do decide to take the plunge, here's some advice:

1. Select the "right" coach for the job. We can't, in short, all be good at everything. For instance, I'm utterly wonderful a making popping noises with my tongue; utterly terrible at break-dancing. In practical terms - you want an expert in the fields you want to learn. Obvious, I know.

2. If you can, hire a coach through a forum like WF. The posts people make on forums are, in effect, an ongoing resume. You can get a good feel for the intended coach. His or her expertise, breadth of knowledge, and whether or not they seem agreeable to you. Coaching can go on for months, after all, and you want to feel confident that you're going to enjoy their virtual company.

3. Testimonials. The real test of a coach is what other people think about them. Any coach worth his salt can put together a convincing sales page, but what do the students say?

4. Interview. A good coach should interview you as much as you interview them. Reason being: some potential students are simply not cut out for IM. Let no one convince you that IM is easy. Most assuredly it is not. It requires time, work, creativity, and the kind of effort that makes regular jobs seem like a walk in the park. And - most important - you do need to bring some qualities to the table, not necessarily IM qualities (it can be things as simple as being literate or having imagination and drive), but bring them, you must. So! if a coach fails to interview you, then - my advice - walk away.

5. Time to think. Shop around and consider. A good coach will receive your email or message, have a chat (interview), and then just let things be. He won't pressure you for a decision. A student pressured into a coaching program is a bad student to have. A stressed student. And imparting knowledge is all the more difficult when the student is less than receptive.

6. Results. Your coaching relationship should be defined by results. You can never ask for any promises, and neither can a coach give them, but you should be working towards goals and aiming to attain results. Before you even sign up, it's important to make it clear (as you have done in your OP) that you are goal-oriented and "This is what I want to achieve."

Righto. All the best!

- Tom

This is all good advice, Tom.

My big worry is he'll get on a call with a good presenter, who will bedazzle him with BS.

It's just plain dangerous to have someone who doesn't know what's good and what's bad get on a call with a "coach" and be put in that position.

"Wow, this guy's amazing! He knows so much!"

"Here's my money!"

I see this effect all the time, when the individual is in a field new to them and they've never heard the content before.

I was a client of a self-help guru, for instance. Good program BUT other members were eating the content up like it was brand new. They were bedazzled because they'd never heard these things before, and so had nothing to compare it to.

Stuart Wilde had been saying exactly the same stuff twenty-five years earlier. And who knows where he got it from. So it wasn't new to me. I wasn't bedazzled.

Never underestimate the power of a confident speaker. Especially if they have a proven sales process behind them.

I do NOT think it's a good idea for the OP to get on a call with anyone at this time. He has a lot more to learn.

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Tom Addams

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

This is all good advice, Tom.

Thanks, Jason!

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

My big worry is he'll get on a call with a good presenter, who will bedazzle him with BS.

It's just plain dangerous to have someone who doesn't know what's good and what's bad get on a call with a "coach" and be put in that position.

"Wow, this guy's amazing! He knows so much!"

"Here's my money!"

I see this effect all the time, when the individual is in a field new to them and they've never heard the content before.

I was a client of a self-help guru, for instance. Good program BUT other members were eating the content up like it was brand new. They were bedazzled because they'd never heard these things before, and so had nothing to compare it to.

Stuart Wilde had been saying exactly the same stuff twenty-five years earlier. And who knows where he got it from. So it wasn't new to me. I wasn't bedazzled.

Never underestimate the power of a confident speaker. Especially if they have a proven sales process behind them.

I do NOT think it's a good idea for the OP to get on a call with anyone at this time. He has a lot more to learn.

Excellent points. There is indeed an inherent flaw with testimonials. That flaw being, as you say (and I'm paraphrasing), a collection of newcomers become so enthused with the new information and, unfortunately, quite often not knowing good from bad, they can then easily misinform the prospective student with glowing praise.

The remedy is to look for testimonials given by more experienced people. I could, for instance, name a handful of coaches who I am more than confident are capable practitioners. And having been in the industry for 21 years, and fairly well-known, the recommendation would be worth that little bit more than if I had just entered the industry. When looking at testimonials, and where you're unable to ascertain the person's level of experience, you often have to take an intelligent peek between the lines. Do the reviewers, in short, appear to know their stuff? Are they a reliable source for a review?

Not to sound like a mutual appreciation society - great tips, Jason. They've given us the impetus to outline a more detailed way for prospective students to use coaching reviews.

- Tom

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Jason Kanigan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Addams

Thanks, Jason!

Excellent points. There is indeed an inherent flaw with testimonials. That flaw being, as you say (and I'm paraphrasing), a collection of newcomers become so enthused with the new information and, unfortunately, quite often not knowing good from bad, they can then easily misinform the prospective student with glowing praise.

The remedy is to look for testimonials given by more experienced people. I could, for instance, name a handful of coaches who I am more than confident are capable practitioners. And having been in the industry for 21 years, and fairly well-known, the recommendation would be worth that little bit more than if I had just entered the industry. When looking at testimonials, and where you're unable to ascertain the person's level of experience, you often have to take an intelligent peek between the lines. Do the reviewers, in short, appear to know their stuff? Are they a reliable source for a review?

Not to sound like a mutual appreciation society - great tips, Jason. They've given us the impetus to outline a more detailed way for prospective students to use coaching reviews.

- Tom

I'd want to see numbers in the results. Not just gross revenue but costs as well. A factor left out of many sales letters. "I made $XXXXX!" Yeah, but what did it cost you to get there? How much do you have left?

Most testimonials, particularly for coaching programs, are gushing with emotion.

The coaches want it that way because most people buy that way.

I don't, but I'm the outlier.

Mostly you'll see, "S/he was GREAAAAT..." and while that Tony The Tiger approach is a turn-off to me, it's a Come Hither wave to everyone else.

Yes, these coaches even if they are regurgitating information they found elsewhere may well be providing value to their clients.

The concern I have is someone who doesn't really know what they are doing, but SOUNDS like they do, getting the OP on a call and bamboozling them into becoming a short-lived but fully funded client.

And without the OP having some more knowledge, I don't know how to avoid that. Maybe by having someone else on the call...someone who knows what they're talking about.

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Tom Addams

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

And without the OP having some more knowledge, I don't know how to avoid that. Maybe by having someone else on the call...someone who knows what they're talking about.

Good question!

This is how many students nowadays overcome the obstacle. As an example, imagine a chap called Joe. He arrives on Warrior Forum with the intent to hire a coach. Prior to his arrival, he spent 6 months jumping into different areas of IM. He made a little money. Just enough to convince himself that IM could be a fruitful occupation. The answer, perhaps, to leaving his day job. Problem is - he lacks the key knowledge component to "make it happen." So. WF, it is! And perhaps a coach can help.

Believe it or not, very few people who are seeking a coach actually create a thread for it. Probably 5% in my estimation. Not that making a thread about it is bad form or in any way redundant. It just doesn't appear to be the norm. Perhaps many people simply like to window shop and quietly and without distraction like to make their decision.

The norm, then.

The typical person considering a coach will actually use my 1 to 6 approach, at the very least, which is why I outlined it above; just in case, essentially, some people might find it useful. Now, it's easy in our industry, and when we have bags of experience, to view newcomers as being, well, as being a bit dim. They don't know how to rank a Youtube Video in Google or how to grow an authority site or how to research and rank for the right type of keywords. And so on. None of which, of course (and I'm not telling you anything you don't know here), makes them, in fact, dim. My experience is just the opposite.

You tend to find intelligent people seek out coaching. And from all walks of society. Intelligence being the key word. More than the above 1 to 6, intelligence plays a vital role in selecting a coach. It becomes a process of absorption and interpretation. In other words, and let's take Joe and WF as an example, Joe would arrive and begin to absorb data related to potential coaches. He would seek out the potentials and, reading between the lines, looking at the information they impart, how they impart it, and how others treat them, he would begin to develop a judgement. And it goes deeper still, and yet into more obvious territory. Does the potential coach fire unsolicited private messages at him? Does he seem like a genuinely good person? Does he attempt to garner business by discrediting the competition and, thus, showing desperation? Does he jump on a coaching thread and grossly offer his services, or does he market and represent himself like a professional? All of these and many more I could mention.

At the end of the day (or the afternoon, or the night, or indeed twilight or dusk), coaching is rarely inexpensive, good coaching, so my experience is that most people take a very judicious approach and are not easily misled.

Yet again, great stuff, Jason. Gave me the impetus to expand some more!

- Tom

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discrat

9 years ago

Hey Scott,
I think Tom and Jason really hit on some very good points.

And I think what Jason said about people who were "bedazzled" by a self help guru...mainly because they had no 'compass' to judge whether he was really great is spot on.

You need to take some time here and start selecting credible Warriors and listen to what they say and study a lot of the information you can find.

Then once you have some more knowledge, see what these supposed 'gooroos" or Coaches can really offer you.

- Robert Andrew

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Tom Addams

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

Hey Scott,
I think Tom and Jason really hit on some very good points.

And I think what Jason said about people who were "bedazzled" by a self help guru...mainly because they had no 'compass' to judge whether he was really great is spot on.

You need to take some time here and start selecting credible Warriors and listen to what they say and study a lot of the information you can find.

Then once you have some more knowledge, see what these supposed 'gooroos" or Coaches can really offer you.

- Robert Andrew

Thanks, buddy!

Scott, as usual Discrat hits the nail on the head:

Originally Posted by discrat

And I think what Jason said about people who were "bedazzled" by a self help guru...mainly because they had no 'compass' to judge whether he was really great is spot on.

And

Originally Posted by discrat

You need to take some time here and start selecting credible Warriors and listen to what they say and study a lot of the information you can find.

- Tom

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CognitiveShift 9 years ago

Hello thanks you William let me tell you I am very great make you money, sorry my english not too well, I will send my info to you account to to where to route your money and then comes the big money to you.

Just kidding.
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williamwhitton

9 years ago

Thank you for all the advice. I will continue to read and absorb information. I am interested in building several websites for niche marketing honestly. Biggest issue is finding the niche and zero targeting keywords for that niche.

Not will wheaton. He's my brother.

Thanks
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Jason Kanigan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by williamwhitton

Thank you for all the advice. I will continue to read and absorb information. I am interested in building several websites for niche marketing honestly. Biggest issue is finding the niche and zero targeting keywords for that niche.

If you're not comfortable proceeding then FIND ANOTHER NICHE.

Don't be married to one idea. Gosh knows I'm an example of that.

If you don't know what to do, you need more information...or you can pick a direction at random, as a friend of mine would suggest.

Have you identified a traffic source for this niche you're looking at?

Thanks
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williamwhitton

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

If you're not comfortable proceeding then FIND ANOTHER NICHE.

Don't be married to one idea. Gosh knows I'm an example of that.

If you don't know what to do, you need more information...or you can pick a direction at random, as a friend of mine would suggest.

Have you identified a traffic source for this niche you're looking at?

SEO traffic would be great, from what I have read it takes a while for SEO traffic as it takes a while to rank on google. I know I also need to build my list as well. Unfortunately that's only possible with traffic.

Correct me if I'm wrong.. I'm still new.

Thanks

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iseultmca 9 years ago

Originally Posted by williamwhitton

Not will wheaton. He's my brother.

Wheaton or Whitton?
- Thanks
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- williamwhitton 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by iseultmca
  
  Wheaton or Whitton?
  
  Lol whitton. I was kidding.
  
  Thanks
  
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williamwhitton

9 years ago

I think a huge problem of mine is in Google sniper the feeling I got was throw sites together as fast as possible and do a bunch of them.

Reality is, I think, you need to pick a great niche first, and that's a big hangup for me, and make great content around that niche to get traffic coming back

Thanks
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Jason Kanigan

9 years ago

Originally Posted by williamwhitton

I think a huge problem of mine is in Google sniper the feeling I got was throw sites together as fast as possible and do a bunch of them.

Reality is, I think, you need to pick a great niche first, and that's a big hangup for me, and make great content around that niche to get traffic coming back

Sounds more like the right track to me.

Who are your ideal customers, and where do they hang out already?

The pros buy qualified traffic...they don't wait around for it to come along.

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williamwhitton

9 years ago

I agree with Jason. If I was to get a mentor I want to see Financials to determine if they are qualified to give me a service. How much you make, how sustainable is it, how long you have been doing it, how much it cost you, where did you spend it to make it. Ect.

Thanks
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williamwhitton 9 years ago

Ideal customers are survivalist, doomsday preppers, that kind of thing.
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leilani

9 years ago

[DELETED]

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DRP

9 years ago

Save your money and invest it in whatever paper assets you already have. (stocks, mutual funds, IRA, REITs, ETFs) If you DON'T have any paper assets, then you better damn get some...especially if you have a few thousand dollars of discretionary funds available. Doing otherwise will be bad for your financial health, despite assurances to the contrary.

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I'd rather tell you an ugly truth than a pretty lie.

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Brent Stangel

9 years ago

Ideal customers are survivalist, doomsday preppers, that kind of thing.

If you want to deal with a lot of freaks!

If you think the "make money" market is full of scams and bullshit, you ain't seen nothing like the "survivalist" niche...good luck with that.

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Get Off The Warrior Forum Now & Don't Come Back If You Want To Succeed!
All The Real Marketers Are Gone. There's Nothing Left But Weak, Sniveling Wanna-Bees!

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