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Rant: Don't Be an Internet Marketing Leech

by TiffanyLambert
66 replies
Note: I'm not naming her name in here or her website URL because it's a rule.

UPDATE: Ugh I feel horrible. She emailed me back, apologizing profusely, asking how to make a new domain, saying she admires me, etc. Didn't do it intentionally. I feel wretched. I got all caught up in rip off people and didn't look for the good in people as I should. My panties got in a wad before I had time to calm down. Blech. I like being a nice marketer, not a mean one.

I don't mind competitors. In fact, I've had people come to me and ask me to help them launch a site in direct competition to mine and I even made them video tutorials for free to help them.

BUT (and I have a big BUT LOL)...

I do NOT like it when someone leeches off of the branding that I worked hard to create for my site. Someone on my lists launched a website where she just added one extra word to the domain - but on the site itself, she talks about the name of her site EXACTLY as mine is named (without the extra word thrown in).

So I'm sure Google's going to index it (it is actually) and she'll be found when people are searching for my site by name. They'll land there. They'll assume it's me because they won't click the About link to see who's behind it. They'll see how she misspells words like: "I want to help people with [b]there[/] writing" - and they'll assume it's me who can't spell.

They may buy the product and not be happy with the poor quality and then go back to Google, type in the site name, find MY site, and pester me with customer service issues until we finally figure out the customer bought from the other site. They may spread word of mouth about that site being bad and everyone will assume it's mine.

It's just a nightmare. To me, it's like opening a burger restaurant named Wendis instead of Wendys. BE ORIGINAL! Come up with your OWN name.

I don't mind review sites that use the original product owner's domain in them - because the original owner is having traffic directed back to their site for sales. But intentionally misleading consumers into thinking they're buying from one person when they're not is a total FAIL.

/Rant

Tiff
#internet #leech #marketing #rant
  • Profile picture of the author Jon DeMarco
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author reapr
      Yup that stinks.

      I have a similar situation going on right now. Someone real lame took this is an example ...

      productx.biz and made it productxbiz.com and well it is not right.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paulie Ciara
    Yeech, that's tough. The worst thing about it is that there's really nothing that can be done to prevent something like that happening. It all comes down the system or morals the copy-cat possesses, or is this case, what he doesn't have.
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
      Originally Posted by healymedia View Post

      Im pretty sure that's a right infringement. She can't use any branding that can be reasonably expected to cause confusion between her product and yours.

      I'd talk to a lawyer but I'm fairly certain you have grounds to have her change the site and stop using branding that resembles yours.
      I didn't know that. I'll look into it Thank you!
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    • Profile picture of the author MarkAndrews IMCopywriting
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Hi Tiff

        From what you've described - she's basically offering the same service as you are and trading off a similar brand name - I'd suggest that you may have a case for legal action. Might be worth checking out.

        In any event, it sounds as though this is a deliberate ploy on her behalf. Time to take the gloves off

        I'd contact her first with an instruction to alter the name of her site or include a clear dislaimer on her home page, so that potential customers won't confuse your site with hers.

        If she refuses..well, you mention word of mouth; you have a lot more clout in that area than she does. You could start by relating this story to everyone on your lists (where WF restrictions don't apply ) and putting a few words about her methods on your original site.

        Let her know that you won't be messed with.


        Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author EMGhb
        Originally Posted by WordPro View Post

        Hello Tiffany

        You might be able to get the other site closed down if you contact their hosting company and threaten them with some legal recourse if it comes to it (as a last resort of course).

        But I would certainly contact them about this, what amounts to intellectual copyright theft and see if they will remove the website in question.

        Sometimes, they will remove not just the one website but every other website that the infringing party has on that hosts account, which certainly sends a very strong warning shot over the bow of this individual - that you will not be messed around with.

        I did this personally myself a while ago and got a well established site completely closed down along with all of their other sites.

        The owner was absolutely furious with me but that's what you get when you steal my copyrighted material, use it without my permission and bring the reputation of my business into disrepute online.

        It might be worth persuing that angle yourself.

        Best of luck to you.


        Mark
        So you just threatened legal action and that was enough to solve the problem? It would be a real pain to actually have to go through the process and pay legal fees and whatnot.
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  • Profile picture of the author RobynN
    Sorry someone is doing that to you. Personally, I like doing my own thing and coming up with stuff that's original - it helps me to express who I am. Especially in internet marketing since I'm trying to make a name for myself , why anyone would want to copy someone else so intently is beyond me.
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  • Profile picture of the author patJ
    You should probably talk to a lawyer about this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Sorry to hear this Tifany but, you know, as soon as you hit the top these snails come crawling to get a piece of your hard work.

    Anyway, create some new properties asap- Squidoo, Hubpages - all you can get, grab some solid links (fellow warriors can help you out I am sure) and outrank the snail to page 3.



    P.S. - Leason learned boys and girls: protect your name/brand with everything you can get.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Well welcome to Rip Off Tiffany Dow day. This next example really takes the cake. THIS next particular crackhead actually contacted MY mentor (found him through me) and asks him to help him/her make money online. So Craig goes to the website the person gave - it's a VERBATIM rip off of MY website for Building an eBook Empire!

    The only thing they did was change what they were selling at the bottom of the page.

    We need some sort of screening process for brain cells before you get to be an Internet Marketer. Really!
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve Diamond
      Hi, Tiffany. This is a terrible situation, but one where you do have recourse, especially if the thieves are in the U.S.

      As others have said, see a lawyer. Not just any lawyer. You want to consult an intellectual property lawyer, one who specializes in trademarks and copyrights (rather than patents).

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      Well welcome to Rip Off Tiffany Dow day. This next example really takes the cake. THIS next particular crackhead actually contacted MY mentor (found him through me) and asks him to help him/her make money online. So Craig goes to the website the person gave - it's a VERBATIM rip off of MY website for Building an eBook Empire!

      The only thing they did was change what they were selling at the bottom of the page.

      We need some sort of screening process for brain cells before you get to be an Internet Marketer. Really!
      I remember a story that Cory Rudl told where he said the exact same thing happened to him and the guy apparently had no idea that there was a problem with it.

      I was trying to find it - I think it's in my old copy of the original IMC course.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      Well welcome to Rip Off Tiffany Dow day. This next example really takes the cake. THIS next particular crackhead actually contacted MY mentor (found him through me) and asks him to help him/her make money online. So Craig goes to the website the person gave - it's a VERBATIM rip off of MY website for Building an eBook Empire!

      The only thing they did was change what they were selling at the bottom of the page.

      We need some sort of screening process for brain cells before you get to be an Internet Marketer. Really!
      Now that you can do something about. Go to http://domainingdiva.com and the first post is about this exactly and I give you a DMCA letter to issue to the hosting co and how to find the host, etc. It worked for me. Someone bought one of my sites and then requested a refund, but kept the site up.

      Suffice it to say, the site is no longer up.
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    I am not a lawyer and I don't even play one on TV, but my guess is that this is illegal. I am speaking of US law as I believe that you are in the USA but who knows if the other person is. Too bad you don't have legal counsel that you can call to verify, or I would assume that you would have called them and this thread would be about what they told you to do.

    Anyway, as I understand it, you can get in legal trouble if you register a domain name that is someone else company name and hold them hostage with it. This seems very similar to me. A cease and desist letter to them and to their host would seem in order. There may be another term for this, but I am not sure.

    I find that having a lawyer handy that you can call for advice is very handy in these type cases. I am surprised that more folks don't have such a service. The cost is so inexpensive, and they can be a great help in many situations. You can call a lawyer on the smallest matters as you don't have to worry about paying the $200 or more hourly fee and can get advice and letters written for all kinds of stuff for a small monthly fee. Almost three times as many lawsuits are filed each year than people that go to hospital, yet folks wouldn't think of being without medical insurance in most cases yet don't have legal insurance in the USA. And when you consider the cost, I am just amazed personally.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Brite
    Is her site selling a similar product/service to you but that she has made?

    If so then i can see the problem.

    If however it is simply someone being an affiliate of your product/service then i really don't see how that harms you at all!

    Competition is normally always good and in this case if you can't get her site down then your simply going to have to dominate the search results instead.

    Not very helpfull but she is a bit stupid choosing to copy it exactly!

    Tom Brite
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      PM sent...this kind of stuff burns my cookies
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    • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
      Originally Posted by Tom Brite View Post

      Is her site selling a similar product/service to you but that she has made?

      If so then i can see the problem.

      If however it is simply someone being an affiliate of your product/service then i really don't see how that harms you at all!

      Competition is normally always good and in this case if you can't get her site down then your simply going to have to dominate the search results instead.

      Not very helpfull but she is a bit stupid choosing to copy it exactly!

      Tom Brite
      Hi Tom - no, she's not an affiliate - she's just using the name of my site on her site to sell her own stuff. Like I said, I love competition if it's above the belt

      On the second guy, he blatantly ripped off my copy to sell his own eBook. Verbatim - but this smart one left MY name in the testimonials. A real winner!

      Tiff

      PS - Thanks Steven PM'd ya back
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      • Profile picture of the author la dominatrix
        Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post


        On the second guy, he blatantly ripped off my copy to sell his own eBook. Verbatim - but this smart one left MY name in the testimonials. A real winner!
        Tiff
        I am sorry to hear about your misfortune, but you must have some grounds for recompense, orsomeone would be ripping off Macdonald's or coke etc. However that made my day. Copied your ebook and left your name in the testimonials. Cracked me up.
        Ladominatrix
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      • Profile picture of the author jendoe
        Here's a couple things I found from a very quick Google search:

        This page talks about how to write DMCA takedown notice, and some of the common mistakes people make:

        Proper Use of the DMCA | PlagiarismToday

        This page (at the bottom) has links to MS Word document templates for DMCA takedown notices (you'll want the last one, for ISPs). I've seen identical word documents on other sites.

        DMCA Template - Web Design & SEO Company

        I'd be sure to print out their site to PDF or something, so that they can't stealthily change it, say you're sabatoging them, then change it back later, or try any other stunts.

        Good luck, I hope this can at least get the exact duplicate site shut down fast for you!

        -Jen
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      • Profile picture of the author kenjitay
        Sorry to hear about that Tiff. But I guess they must have seen that you are very successful and tends to copy what you do..

        You can try to contact a lawyer and send them a letter to take down those stuff because of copyright infringement..

        Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post


        On the second guy, he blatantly ripped off my copy to sell his own eBook. Verbatim - but this smart one left MY name in the testimonials. A real winner!
        Is it your testimonial or something he made up ? Posting fake testimonials are illegal in the states. Its consider a scam..

        Regards
        Kenji
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        • Profile picture of the author LinearChaos
          This is getting interesting with Roger's addition.

          If scanning posts in a forum for ideas for information products is equal to flat out copying an information product...then isn't it true that using anything posted anywhere on the Internet no matter how much to create anything is just like blatant plagiarism?

          Close up shop, game over.

          There has to be a point where you cross the line and I believe those boundaries have been drawn.

          Market research does not equal plagiarism or copyright infringement or unethical behavior.

          Great discussion.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by LinearChaos View Post

            This is getting interesting with Roger's addition.

            If scanning posts in a forum for ideas for information products is equal to flat out copying an information product...then isn't it true that using anything posted anywhere on the Internet no matter how much to create anything is just like blatant plagiarism?

            Close up shop, game over.

            There has to be a point where you cross the line and I believe those boundaries have been drawn.

            Market research does not equal plagiarism or copyright infringement or unethical behavior.

            Great discussion.
            I think most of us know the difference between gleaning "ideas" from the Internet and flat out copying someone else's product or website or content.

            There are those who are incapable of original thought so copying is what they do.
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            • Profile picture of the author pbennett
              you guys are kind of freaking me out because my site Gluten-Free-Chocolate has the same domain name (minus the hyphens) that glutenfreechocolate.com does. Mine is more educational and theirs is retail.....

              Is that a plagiarism???
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              • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
                Originally Posted by pbennett View Post

                you guys are kind of freaking me out because my site Gluten-Free-Chocolate has the same domain name (minus the hyphens) that glutenfreechocolate.com does. Mine is more educational and theirs is retail.....

                Is that a plagiarism???
                'Gluten free chocolate' is a keyword rich domain name - not a brand name. There are probably many more domains on the internet with those exact keywords so don't worry.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by pbennett View Post

                you guys are kind of freaking me out because my site Gluten-Free-Chocolate has the same domain name (minus the hyphens) that glutenfreechocolate.com does. Mine is more educational and theirs is retail.....

                Is that a plagiarism???

                plagiarism is copy someone's content

                cybersquatting is registering a trademarked domain in the hopes of stealing the traffic and reputation of the trademark owner

                gluten free and chocolate are generic keywords and are not trademarkable. Now if it was GodivaChocolates.com and you registered Godiva-Chocolates.com, you'd be in trouble.
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                • Profile picture of the author pbennett
                  Thanks!

                  I'm glad you guys said that about trademarking, cause I was just about to trademark it as GFC....

                  That's a no go?
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                    Originally Posted by pbennett View Post

                    Thanks!

                    I'm glad you guys said that about trademarking, cause I was just about to trademark it as GFC....

                    That's a no go?
                    I don't think it would go through. It's generic and you can't trademark generic terms. When you apply for a trademark, there's a fee (was $200 when I got one) to apply. You don't get that back if they refuse the trademark.
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  • Profile picture of the author TrafficGuy Claude
    That sucks Tiff, you should definitely get a lawyer to write a letter to their hosting company in fancy legal jargon with a nice letterhead on parchment paper, they will shut them down with the quickness!
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  • Profile picture of the author actionplanbiz
    that sucks. i am sorry to hear that.

    but if someone is going to the trouble of leeching off of you. you must be doing something right.

    =D
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisByrns
    Dear Sir,


    We are the proprietors of all copyright in a literary/artistic/musical work entitled ____________________________(The "Work").



    It has come to our attention that your work entitled _____________________________ is identical/substantially similar to our copyrighted Work. Permission was neither asked nor granted to reproduce our Work and your Work therefore constitutes infringement of our rights. In terms of the Copyright Statutes, we are entitled to an injunction against your continued infringement, as well as to recover damages from you for the loss we have suffered as a result of your infringing conduct.
    In the circumstances, we demand that you immediately:
    1. remove all infringing content and notify us in writing that you have done so;
    2. credit all infringing content to ourselves in the following manner: _________________________;
    3. pay a licensing fee in the amount of _____________________;
    4. immediately cease the use and distribution of copyrighted material;
    5. deliver-up for destruction all unused or undistributed copies;
    6. undertake in writing to desist from using any of our copyrighted Work in future without prior written authority from us.
    [Delete the ones not applicable]
    We await to hear from you by no later than close of business on __________________________.
    This is written without prejudice to our rights, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.
    Yours faithfully,
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Bartlett
    This sort of thing is just plain wrong.

    It might be worth speaking to your lawyer about as if she uses the same phrasing as you or wording then technically this could also be IP copyright infringement. (Intellectual property)

    Sometimes its worth paying a Lawyer for a standard letter to be written up which addresses this, explains you will take it further unless the content is changed within x amount of time and then whenever you see this sort of thing, send them the letter you have and this usually means you dont need to pay anything to a lawyer each time as you can obviously reuse this letter and that will usually solve the situation on its own.

    If they dont listen (which most people would) then you can go further with your lawyer at that point if you think its worth it. (Insist they pay your legal fee's as they would obviously be in the wrong)

    You probably wouldnt need to get to that point but sometimes showing people that they simply cannot do this without being noticed and ending up getting a stern frightening letter is usually enough to stop them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Bartlett
    As I was writing my response I saw that "ChrisByrns" above posted something similar.

    This is exactly how you should deal with it.

    Good luck.

    (Remember, your intellectual property is just as much yours as your house and car. If someone trys to steal it, let them know they cant walk away without a fight or at least a warning)
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  • Profile picture of the author jendoe
    Hey Tiffany - That's rotten

    The first person was bad enough... but... the idea of just copying an entire website is ridiculous... (though, not to make light of the matter, but you do have to admit, the fact that he took a COPY of your site, to YOUR MENTOR, and asked for help... ROFL! Not the brightest move, eh?)

    For that one - if you contact his host, I wonder if just sending his URL (maybe with screenshots?) and yours, plus proof of how long you've been online with that site, would be enough to get it taken down? Surely there's a boilerplate DMCA cease-and-desist type letter floating around online somewhere that you could use?

    Good luck, I hope you can get it sorted out quickly without too much extra stress!

    BTW - Tim Pears - where do you find these lawyers? It sounds like it can be a really good deal, depending on the price (I'd love to have a lawyer to just call for stuff that comes up).

    Thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author annavera
    I've had a problem with my poetry being stolen and posted on other sites with other people's names attached and obviously no link to my site. It amazing me that people stoop that low. Why?

    On your situation, it reminds me of a situation Holly Mann had a while ago. She posted about it on her blog and she did eventually resolve it.

    For obvious reasons I won't put the link in my post, but if you Google "site:honestholly.com "Cybersquatting Warning" you will find her post. That might help you.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Update:

    On lady A - someone brought it to my attention that it appears someone hacked into her Twitter account and is posting that she's looking at naked teenaged girls. LOL I do NOT condone hacking into people's accounts. I did not do it - I'm not that tech savvy and I wouldn't even if I could. But I still had to giggle, I'm sorry - it was funny karma. Someone on my Twitter list must have seen who I messaged and gone after her. If so, I have no clue who - or maybe she pissed off someone else - who knows?

    I will be taking the LEGAL route - doing what you guys suggested and asking her to change the site's name OR the use of the wording on her site to a.) not use my site's name and b.) put a disclaimer to let people know it's not tiffany dow's site.

    On the second person - I don't know by the name if it's a he or she:

    The site has been taken down. On the home page you can just see the index files. I also contacted aweber to see if they would delete his/her account since they were building a list with my copy, but I don't know if they'll mess with that or not. I contacted GoDaddy too. We'll see how that goes.

    Thanks Warriors - for letting me vent and helping me with solutions I hate waking up to this stuff on a Sunday when it's a relaxation day!
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    Tiffany, if this person is acting in a way that would cause visitors to assume that it is your identity/ownership over theirs, then they are breaking the law.

    It's deceit, plain and simple.

    And if they are copying your website, business and name (misspelled or not) and you have a solid argument to demonstrate that (which you do) then you can sue for libel.

    Too many jokers think that they are protected from the law online, but the law is the law, principles are principles...and DAMAGES are DAMAGES.

    Go get 'em girl.
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    • Profile picture of the author LinearChaos
      Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

      Tiffany, if this person is acting in a way that would cause visitors to assume that it is your identity/ownership over theirs, then they are breaking the law.

      It's deceit, plain and simple.

      And if they are copying your website, business and name (misspelled or not) and you have a solid argument to demonstrate that (which you do) then you can sue for libel.

      Too many jokers think that they are protected from the law online, but the law is the law, principles are principles...and DAMAGES are DAMAGES.

      Go get 'em girl.
      Yup, get her!

      This really upsets me, especially since Tiffany has been so great to help out the newbies. For someone to rip her off just burns my britches.

      No one wants to give back if this is how they are going to be treated...such blatant disrespect and disregard for other people's work makes me sick.

      Someone else on this board mentioned Libel...her actions could definitely effect your business and brand negatively. You most definitely have grounds for a libel claim.
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  • Profile picture of the author dorim
    If she wants to help people with "there" writing she won't be very successful. Anyway, I'd see a lawyer as several others have suggested, she is a big leech and should not be allowed to infringe on somebody else's brand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek S
    I know for a fact if you have a lawyer contact the hosting company with a copyright infringement notice, they will close the site down almost instantly. The good side is that the hosting company will not do business with that customer again and the bad side is they will likely go on and find another host the same day.
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  • Profile picture of the author MizzCindy
    I'm so glad you're making some progress with this, Tiffany!

    Unfortunately, there are dishonest creepos all over the internet. I'm not a big fan of taking it lying down. Good for you for fighting it!

    Cindy

    P.S. Had a big giggle at the Twitter hack development. Teehee! (I know. Bad, Cindy, bad.)
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Now I forget - how do you find out who the host is again? It's not on WhoIs correct? That's the domain regsitrar or whatever. Hosting's a whole nuther story lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Micheallatour
    Okay, Bomb her off the google pages with web2.0 properties.
    what I would do is go to trafficgeyser.com sign up make a video
    about the "copy cat" and then post it to the 40 sumthing video sites.

    you will get indexed fast with that software. Trust me I've used it
    to for product launches and works great!
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    I wish I could offer better advice that others have given you here--I can't. However, be assured that everyone here is behind you. That doesn't solve your problem, but just remember that. Best Luck! --Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek S
    hey Tiffany("Tiff"?)

    go to Domain Name Tools ~ Whois Lookup and Domain NameTools and type their url in there and it will spit out all the information you need!
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      When an internet law attorney posts an answer as BobS did above - that's the one I'd listen to

      I noticed many of the replies reference laws that apply to registered trademarks only. IANAL - but bob is.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi,

        Warning - devils' advocate post that swims right against the tide.

        Sorry Tiffany, but there are many things about this thread that I find rather distasteful. I'm going to elaborate on what they are, but I don't expect many to agree with me - except perhaps the silent minority. I fully expect many people to misinterpret my points here and take the hump - so I won't act surprised when that happens. Here goes...

        This thread is a rant about typical stuff that goes on every day in this market.

        Am I saying it's right that someone ripped you off (the second one from post#12)? No.

        Am I saying it's right that someone is leeching off off your 'brand' (the first one from the OP)? No.

        What I am saying is that it's not so great to see an internet marketer whingeing about it.

        The first thing I thought of when I saw this thread appear was your recent thread entitled 'Warrior members I use you all the time' that now resides in the War room.

        Did I miss the point of that thread? No. Did I miss the disclaimers you made in that thread about 'not skimming' and 'ripping off'? No.

        But I also didn't miss the fact that the suggestion in that thread was to use the questions asked in this forum to whip up a 15 page report in 2 and a half hours and flog it to your subscribers to make $1000 in 48 hours.

        Some examples of the ideas given -

        1.) How to run a WSO

        2.) How to run an effective article marketing campaign

        3.) How to find and work with a mentor

        4.) How to get experts to give you an interview
        Do people really need an ebook to explain these things to them?

        So you're an internet marketer. You do what most internet marketers (IMers) do. These rip-off merchants (the ones discussed in THIS thread) do what they do. So you stop them.

        Who is better? I think it's a very thin line between the two.

        My point? Many people answering in this thread are acting as if being an internet marketer and rehashing semi-useful ideas gleaned from forums is holier than thou, whereas being a blatant plaguarist or a copy-cat or a bandwagon jumper is the lowest of the low.

        Personally, I don't see it as being as black and white as that. Many of the ebooks that are sold in places like this forum promote HOW to copy others, HOW to jump on bandwagons, HOW to 'borrow' ideas. But this is OK?

        But because someone took it a little further and did this to a warrior, all of a sudden these people are the scum of the earth and it gives us all a good belly laugh to see their accounts hacked and posts made in their name hinting at sexual deviances.

        Again, my point - what these people did sounds wrong (particularly the second example, who appears to be a plagiarist) but does it make us any better when we slide very close to making ourselves sound like a bunch of hypocrites, sounding off about what they did as if we are whiter-than-white and holier-than-thou?

        Sometimes it's better to just do what needs to be done and not make a song and dance about it. Perhaps the 'leech' comment in the title is just the icing on the cake and pushed me over the edge to make this post.

        Rant: Don't Be an Internet Marketing Leech
        Warrior Members I Use You All the Time
        Irony? Hypocrisy? Hmmm

        In one thread you're telling us how you quickly threw something together and flogged it to your subscribers and how others can make money by doing the same. In this one you're telling us how you're emailing your list and telling them your woes and your subscribers are going out and avenging the 'crimes' against you.

        In my opinion, this is very close to what is so wrong in IM and what's so strange about the way many people view their subscribers.

        I just think that if you're going to make threads like the one I referred to (here) then it's probably not so wise to make threads like this one as well - unless you want to 'brand' yourself as 'just another typical IMer', with something very close to double-standards and the inability to notice when you're sailing very close to outright-hypocrisy.

        For those who fail to get my drift, read the thread I linked to (if you're a war room member), read this thread again and the responses and have a little think about it.

        As always, I'm just trying to get people to 'keep it real.' If you want to be an internet marketer and swim with the sharks, great.

        But let's not get carried away with our own hype and forget that the majority of people making coin in this market are doing so by flogging dreams to desperate people who don't know better - yet.

        And perhaps we should ask ourselves if doing that is SO FAR removed and SO much better than what the two people being derided in this thread did.

        Personally, I don't think it is. Are sharks so much better than leeches?
        Signature


        Roger Davis
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        • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
          Ah it's the first time I think I've ever totally disagreed with you Roger

          I don't think an Internet marketer has to bend over a barrel and take it either. I can "whine" and hopefully teach the newbies that this kind of behavior isn't cool. Some, like it turns out is the case with this lady, truly don't know.

          It's a lesson. And if you already know the answer and understand the concept, skim on by and don't click. There are a zillion posts in any forum that you could roll your eyes at - but I'll post what I want and what I feel is necessary and useful to those still learning.

          My post about using Warrior members is a far cry from ripping off sales copy verbatim or even using their brand. Ideas are ideas - brand names and content cut and pasted is polar opposite.

          I think you're WAY off in your assessment that someone gathering ideas of what consumers need in their demographic via a forum (this one or another niche) and cut and pasting content or stealing brand name is alike is not correct at all.

          And Allen liked that post enough to take it from here and stick it in the War Room, so at least someone saw the value in what I was saying.

          Yes, people REALLY do need eBooks to explain those things to them.

          I did not email my list and they avenged me. That you said that makes me wonder how fast you're skimming this thread, Roger. I said I tweeted the woman herself and it looks like someone else hacked her site. I don't know if it was someone following me or if it's someone else she made angry.

          I don't have double standards, sorry. I have one standard. And I'm not flogging dreams - man you're all bent out of shape tonight aren't you? You're calling me a shark for looking in a marketing forum to get ideas on what might be useful to my list of newbie marketers?

          I call that being a smart researcher.
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Tiffany,

            Thanks for your response.

            I can "whine" and hopefully teach the newbies that this kind of behavior isn't cool. Some, like it turns out is the case with this lady, truly don't know.
            If I were a newbie, I'd find it a little patronising that you thought I needed to be taught this via your whine. You think the person in question didn't know it was wrong? That's what they all say when they get caught with their pants down.

            It's a lesson. And if you already know the answer and understand the concept, skim on by and don't click.
            If you choose to call it a lesson, fine. Perhaps I'm offering a lesson too?

            There are a zillion posts in any forum that you could roll your eyes at
            You sounded just like Eric when you said that :rolleyes:

            My post about using Warrior members is a far cry from ripping off sales copy verbatim or even using their brand. Ideas are ideas - brand names and content cut and pasted is polar opposite.
            I agree that 'ripping off sales copy verbatim' is very different. I made that clear above. But as for 'using their brand' - I explained my feelings on that too.

            I think you're WAY off in your assessment that someone gathering ideas of what consumers need in their demographic via a forum (this one or another niche) and cut and pasting content or stealing brand name is alike is not correct at all.
            If you re-read what I said, it wasn't just the idea gathering I was referring to - I also mentioned quickly creating a report, selling it to your subscribers, and posting in here telling others to do the same. Why leave that part out?

            I did not email my list and they avenged me.
            Yeah I misread that. Twitter list, subscriber list - is it so different?

            man you're all bent out of shape tonight aren't you?
            Perhaps I am, perhaps I always have been. Perhaps many of us are. Or perhaps the majority of IMers are. Perhaps I'm suggesting you were when you made this thread.

            You're calling me a shark for looking in a marketing forum to get ideas on what might be useful to my list of newbie marketers?
            Now who's skimming and misquoting?

            We do disagree on this subject, and probably always will. I'm not surprised though. Sincerely - thanks again for discussing it intelligently.
            Signature


            Roger Davis
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            • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              If I were a newbie, I'd find it a little patronising that you thought I needed to be taught this via your whine. You think the person in question didn't know it was wrong? That's what they all say when they get caught with their pants down.
              Wrong. From my experience they most often DON'T say this. In fact, they become hostile and defensive and tell you to go F yourself, forcing you to take action.

              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              If you re-read what I said, it wasn't just the idea gathering I was referring to - I also mentioned quickly creating a report, selling it to your subscribers, and posting in here telling others to do the same. Why leave that part out?
              Okay let's address that - perhaps it's because your argument makes zero sense to me since the two issues are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I can write up to 40 pages a day. I can quickly whip up a report and if you read the "I use you" thread in the War Room, you'll see that I specifically talk about how it took me 2.5 hours to write 15 pages. I tell people to look at thread titles only - not even reading the post so they don't accidentally copy other people's ideas (yeah I can see how I'm such a shark and bordering on a leech). I also stress that it's great to keep the report SHORT (hence the quickly part) so that the reader doesn't get information overload - and affordable so that everyone can benefit from it.

              You're right - you pegged me - I'm a ripoff artist!

              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              Yeah I misread that. Twitter list, subscriber list - is it so different?
              Uh YEAH! You made it sound like I emailed my list of people who had handed over their name and email addresses and asked them to avenge me by harassing this lady - what you insinuated was wrong.

              Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

              We do disagree on this subject, and probably always will. I'm not surprised though. Sincerely - thanks again for discussing it intelligently.
              Roger, I've always enjoyed your POV. Anyway, good to let others know your POV in here too - I'm not one for censorship for sure
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Update: She emailed me back reassuring me that my content is not on her site (as far as what she's selling). She also asked me how to change the domain - buy a new one, etc. She said it was not intentional and asked for more suggestions so I asked her to yes, buy a new domain and transfer her files to it and take out any reference to plr mini mart. I asked her to confirm her decision.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Usher
    I had exactly the same thing happen to me with my site. Someone copied the whole site including the images and 99% of the copy and started up an identical service to the one I offered.

    I emailed the hosting company where the site was on and basically they asked me to prove that copyright had been infringed by supplying the relevant trademark and copyright documentation to them. Of course I had no such documentation and can't really afford a lawyer to take this on. So basically the copycats got away with it, and still are getting away with it.

    It happens, but I would suspect most marketers would not have the relevant documentation or funds to hire a lawyer to fight this sort of thing. This would make a great WSO indeed. "My Site Has Been Copied - What Do I Do ?" ......

    Regards

    Jeff
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  • Profile picture of the author wisecrone333
    Hi Tiffany,

    I realize it probably doesn't help but you could kinda take what has happened as a backhanded compliment - after all you are well known enough and successful enough to copy

    Love your blogs
    Lisa
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    Gran's tackling the world of IM - check out the blog here
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
    DAMN IT! That was my whole marketing plan for the next six months is to clone Tiffany Dow and all of her sites and products.. I was even going to change my avatars to make them look like her and get look a likes to go to seminars. Damn.. you mean that we can't clone other people's stuff now?

    What a rip off, I mean hell, it takes time to like think of stuff and like do stuff. Much easier to just clone you Tiffany. Damn...



    For those that didn't catch it, the above is SARCASM. LMAO.


    Yeah, everyone gets there stuff ripped off at one point or another. Had a guy tell me to my face he took my content, re-engineered it and made products using it and there was not a thing I could do about it. You know this person Tiff. LOL

    Anyway, yeah it happens.


    - Terry
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    Roger,

    I always love your posts as they often swim upstream...and are intelligently thought out.

    On this occasion, although I completely agree with your principle point, I think Tiffany's situation and your angle are slightly different...albeit split apart by a thin gray hairline.

    Tiffany is facing potential damages through misrepresentation, brand tarnishing and plagiarism.

    ...whereas the common theme of "skimming" FREE content for research purposes is an entirely different ballgame.

    Largely because taking ideas found in forums isn't damaging people's livelihood (assuming no names or misquoting is involved).

    I know where you're coming from with the two posts - they are close to contradiction, but not really the same thing.

    This issue is outright infringement and libelous, the previous post is possibly at worst, cutting a few corners in doing your research (assuming you don't just copy content directly from forum posts into a pdf report).

    At the end of the day, I can see why this common "copy other successful marketers" notion can be misconstrued and taken too literally, but if you've got the intelligence to take action, buy a domain name, set up hosting, and get the site out there in the search engines, then it is my ASSUMPTION that you've got enough intelligence to know when you've crossed the line in ripping people off.

    And this person told Tiffany that "she didn't know she was in the wrong"...but if you ask me to take down one of my sites and I "don't think I've done anything wrong" then I wouldn't be so quick to take it down and jump at your command until you make a solid case and prove to me that what I've done is wrong.

    Guilty conscience at play with this person perhaps?
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    • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
      Roger v Tiffany

      Imagine I wanted to open a fast food outlet. I went into existing outlets to find what sells, what customers want etc. Legitimate research.

      I decide a burger bar is the way to go.

      Do I a) call it McDonalds and copy logo, menus et, or b) call it Birmingham Burger Bar and design my own branding etc?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Roger, a while ago (it was August of last year) I started dabbling with
      Google Trends. I figured out how to monetize it and in October came out
      with a system for using it.

      A few months later, another warrior member (actually it was a team) also
      came out with a similar product.

      Similar...but not the same.

      They didn't steal my name, logos, brand or anything. In fact, they took it
      to another level. They offered their members more trends per day, more
      information, etc.

      I could have got upset that they jumped on my bandwagon, but I had no
      case. They did what a good marketer is supposed to do...see what is out
      there, see what's selling and add their own spin to it.

      Otherwise, and let's be honest, what is really new in IM?

      How many Adwords books do we really need?

      How many books on offline gold do we really need?

      How many books on article marketing do we really need?

      I mean for crying out loud, it seems that one person comes out with
      something and then you have all the bandwagon jumpers.

      But that's the way this business is.

      The key to staying on top is to make sure that YOUR product is the
      best of the bunch and be able to show people WHY it is.

      I mean look at the real world outside of IM.

      We had the "4 Dummies" series of books so now we have the "4 Idiots"
      series of books.

      Isn't it the same thing?

      And yet nobody says boo about any of that.

      It is commonly accepted that there will be competition in every walk of
      business and in many cases, that competition will be an obvious "clone"
      of another product but just different enough not to have the lawyers
      pounding on your door.

      Thus, I don't get all worked up over things like that.

      However, if somebody takes my product and makes an exact copy of it,
      graphics, sales letter, content and all, THEN I have a problem. Because
      then they didn't even put in the time to put their own spin on things,
      which is a commonly accepted practice in business.

      Therefore, given Tiff's problem and what you brought up in your reply,
      I have to respectfully disagree with your premise that they are even
      similar.

      One has legal ramifications

      One doesn't.

      Want to talk ethics?

      Who is to say that the "4 Idiots" series of books wasn't ethical?

      It's not for me to judge. Besides, it's irrelevant. If the courts have
      decided that there is no infringement, then case closed. Doesn't matter
      what we think.

      Now, if the public looks at the "4 Idiots" series of books as a ripoff, then
      guess what? They won't buy it and the market will then dictate itself
      and those "4 Idiots" guys will eventually go out of business.

      History is littered with companies that tried to be like "somebody else"
      and ended up bankrupt.

      And in the case of a blatant rippoff where it can be proven with
      documentation, while it may cost money and time, eventually, these
      people also get shut down.

      Otherwise we'd be seeing

      Xerax
      IBN
      Niko

      And on and on.

      It doesn't happen because the laws, as imperfect as they are, don't let
      it happen.

      Bottom line.

      Tiff has a legit beef and I honestly feel you're comparing apples to
      oranges.

      I don't think the line is as thin as you're saying it is.

      At least that's my opinion on the subject.
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    • Profile picture of the author barbling
      Ouch! What a crummy thing to have happen to you.

      The next thing I'd do if I were you would be to make money from it - write up the story in a report/ebook that has your affiliate links for legal web 2.0 issues etc and offer it as a giveaway. I'll bet it's such a human-story it would become viral very quickly indeed.

      After being scammed to the tune of 26K back in 1999, I took all of those experiences and wrote Avoiding The Contractor From Hell. Very cathartic, that.
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      • Profile picture of the author NewAffilateWealth
        Ouch! What a crummy thing to have happen to you.

        The next thing I'd do if I were you would be to make money from it - write up the story in a report/ebook that has your affiliate links for legal web 2.0 issues etc and offer it as a giveaway. I'll bet it's such a human-story it would become viral very quickly indeed.

        After being scammed to the tune of 26K back in 1999, I took all of those experiences and wrote Avoiding The Contractor From Hell. Very cathartic, that.
        I agree with barbling here. Use your business acumen and stay one step ahead of them and monetize this niche. As you can see there are tons of people here that have either had or know about this happening to them or someone respectively. Write an ebook and publish or give it away if you choose and use the perpetrators as an example in the book. Gives you more credibility.
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Tiffany,

          Thanks again for your candid and robust responses. Also thanks to Steven and Nick for your direct responses, and all of the other contributors.

          As you may have noticed I find it beneficial to introduce a polemic aspect to subjects like this in order to invite those present to look at the subject from a slightly different angle. I realise that some may see my reasons for this as purely argumentative, but I find great value and education from the responses and I hope that others do too.

          As much as I probe and question others to get underneath the surface, I do the same to myself - again, for positive reasons. This has been the case with what I have learnt since commenting in this thread, so I just wanted to return and say thanks.

          I'm glad you appear to have resolved the issues raised in the OP without further hassle Tiffany.

          Signature


          Roger Davis
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          • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Tiffany,

            Thanks again for your candid and robust responses. Also thanks to Steven and Nick for your direct responses, and all of the other contributors.

            As you may have noticed I find it beneficial to introduce a polemic aspect to subjects like this in order to invite those present to look at the subject from a slightly different angle. I realise that some may see my reasons for this as purely argumentative, but I find great value and education from the responses and I hope that others do too.

            As much as I probe and question others to get underneath the surface, I do the same to myself - again, for positive reasons. This has been the case with what I have learnt since commenting in this thread, so I just wanted to return and say thanks.

            I'm glad you appear to have resolved the issues raised in the OP without further hassle Tiffany.
            Hey Roger - I remembered hearing about all of your debate qualifications and I realized you're good at what you do I'm a big fan of debate - even if it is polar opposite of what I believe.

            Thanks for sharing your opinion, even if it DID rattle me. Whew! Getting off the Roger ride now...ha ha
            tiff
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Terry - that sucks that it happened to you and that the person was acting that way (that's what I meant in my response to Roger - most WILL look you straight in the eye and say something along the lines of "Yeah, so what? Whatcha gonna do about it?" Oh and you don't wanna clone me - not until I get thin on this 30 day weight loss journey lol

    Nick - Thanks, I think you get the point I was trying to make. My scanning free forum was as simple as this: read some thread titles to get ideas about what your list might want. Nothing more - don't even read the posts at all - I emphasized how important it is to provide your readers with YOUR unique viewpoint and reading posts might cause you to swipe content or steal other people's ideas, something I'm against.

    I didn't even say to copy other marketers. I said that where people are asking questions, it's a good place to get report ideas (no different from Yahoo Answers for example). In regards to the email the woman sent admitting she would take it down, I had sent her a lengthy email letting her know what the problem was but also WHY it was wrong. But let's say she DID know - she's taking it down so I'm okay with that at this point. Maybe getting caught will make her not try that again. She's very new, you can tell from the site.

    Steven How come you said it so much better than I did? LOL Apples to oranges I agree.
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  • Profile picture of the author HelenS
    I think you reacted the same way anyone would have done so no need to worry!

    Glad that it worked out for you

    Helen
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  • Profile picture of the author camforbes
    Hey Y'all,

    Haven't been here in awhile, and Tiffany that really sucks.

    Same thing happened to me back in... oh, 2005-ish. My very first eBook/course was all about helping people create their offline consulting business. I had worked very hard to compile all the information I had gathered from being in the consulting world for a dozen years and put it together in a paint-by-numbers system.

    It was beautiful. People bought it. I had raving fans. The skies parted and angels sang.

    The checks poured in every few weeks from ClickBank. I could do no wrong.

    Then some douchebag bought it, registered a similar domain, repackaged my material as his own, and began going after the same market - using all the same keywords.

    Now I'm not afraid of a little competition either. But it really pissed me off to high heaven to see this dude do this because it was so blatant. I saw the date/time he bought my product. A day later he registered his domain. Very shortly thereafter he was in the market siphoning off my potential customers. I bought it and yes - it was almost verbatim MY STUFF.

    So I contacted him and asked him "WTF?" and he wrote back all offended - calling my claims unfounded and unsubstantiated. Plus he was in the UK so I couldn't touch him anyway.

    Yeah, it made me mad, but I was at peace with it all because I knew that some day karma was gonna come around and whup up on him. Probably has by now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tron2k
    sorry for your luck Tiffany,I got a niche site stolen here recently by some fool that doesn't even know how to run it right. Oh well they wont last long anyways.
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