New Members...You're Being Given Bad Advice

[Steven Wagenheim]

A couple of days ago, a new member came here and immediately started to
post ads to every part of this forum. He made about 25 posts before he was
booted from this place.

Before the eventual booting took place, several members, including myself,
told him about the error of his ways.

His reply?

"I'm sorry. I didn't know. I was told by somebody to come to the Warrior
Forum and post ads. I thought this was the place."

Folks, you're being given bad advice. Yes, I've seen the books and
memberships out there that tell people to come here and either spam the
hell out of the place or run a WSO...or both.

You're being fed a bill of goods that will ultimately get you booted from
this place permanently.

However, this thread is meant, not just as a warning as to what not to
do but as a helpful one to show you what to do.

A lot of people come here and when we tell them to contribute, they reply

"I don't know how" or "I have nothing to contribute"

You're wrong. You do.

I'm going to show you how you can contribute to this forum even if you
don't have one scrap of knowledge.

1. Read through the main discussion forum threads and see if you can
find any that offer some tips or advice in areas that you're interested in.
Read through them. There is a very good chance that there is going to
be something that you don't quite understand or would like some
clarification on. Don't just say, "Nice post" because they're going to get
you deleted as well.

Instead, ask an intelligent question in regard to the advice being given.
Most likely, if you have a question on that topic, others do as well but
just are too afraid to ask. Don't be. That's what the members are here
for...to help each other.

Every question you ask is contributing to the forum whether you think so
or not.

2. If you don't see any topics that you're interested in but have your
own questions about a certain topic, start your own thread and ask your
question.

However, do NOT make your questions so general that they can't be
answered.

For example:

"How Can I Make Money Online?"

This is too general. Nobody can possibly give you an answer that's going
to be of any real help.

Instead, narrow down your question to a specific area of earning online.
Maybe you have a question about how to do a review site for affiliate
products. The more detailed the question, the better the answer you're
going to get.

3. Another thing you can do, when you first get here, is start a thread
telling the members something about yourself. Tell us how you started
in IM or if you haven't started yet, what you've done previously or are
doing now. Talk about what you'd like to do. By allowing us to know
something about you, we are more likely to trust you, especially if you use
a real name. Yes, I know...some people have a problem with that as they
want their privacy. However, it is a fact that is hard to get around.

Members are more likely to trust other members if they use their real names.

4. Don't make any posts that are promotional in any way. You're allowed
a link in your signature, provided you keep your signature within the rules
of the forum. Please read this thread on signatures and other forum rules.

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ead-first.html

5. If you're thinking of running a WSO for any reason, wait until you've
been here a sufficient length of time that you've earned the trust of the
other members. Yes, trust must be earned and it's very easy to lose that
trust.

6. Finally, stop listening to the bad advice that you've been given when
being told to come here. These people have no respect for this
community and ultimately their advice will get you thrown out of here.

The person who was banned the other day truly realized that what he
did was wrong. Had he not been given such bad advice and instead
did the right thing, he might have become a productive member of this
forum. Now, we'll never know.

And that, IMO, is the saddest part of all.

Why?

Because the Warrior Forum has literally changed lives. Ask all the people
who have come here who have literally built reputations from this place.

There was an old thread that the owner of this forum started back in
the old forum that said "How This Forum Can Make You $50,000".

He wasn't kidding.

The Warrior Forum could have been a gold mine for this person.

But now we'll never know.

His life could have gone in a completely different direction than it has gone
in now.

But now we'll never know.

He could have been the next <fill in the successful marketer of your choice>

But now we'll never know.

Every decision we make has consequences. Some can last a lifetime.

Problem is...some of those lifetime consequences aren't all that good.

Ask somebody who committed armed robbery at age 18 and is now
spending 20 years in prison.

Maybe spamming the Warrior Forum isn't quite on that scale.

But then again, there is a big difference between making $50,000 because
of this forum and not making it.

OK? Got it?

What happens to you once you come here is up to you.

[HelenS]

Hi Steven,

Thanks so much for this info! I have only been a warrior for a few days and I definitely don't want to get booted off for unintentionally breaking the rules!

Helen

[Jillian Slack]

Fabulous advice, Steven.

It's a shame that others continue to send people here, to break into our community in an unethical way. But what do they care? They've made their money from the newbie and sent the newbie on the wrong path (well, the right path, but in the wrong way).

Something else that's helpful for newbies is to use the "search" feature at the top of the page.

Look for specific topics that you would like to learn about, and then read through those topics.

Then take Steven's advice and ask questions within those threads. It doesn't matter if the discussion thread is a few weeks old. Go ahead and post your question to get the conversation going again.

This also makes more sense than posting a brand new discussion thread every time someone has one of the more common questions. Of course, if you're a newbie you probably don't realize it's one of the more common questions.

But there are definitely a lot of topics that have been discussed many, many times. Don't expect the other members of the forum to rehash what they have already discussed. A lot of times, we look at the new threads and think, "Oh, crap. This again? We just went through this last week, the week before, and the week before that."

Learn from the discussions that have already taken place here on the forum. Once you have read through what is already here, then you are in a far better position to ask questions.

Jill

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Jillian Slack

Fabulous advice, Steven.

It's a shame that others continue to send people here, to break into our community in an unethical way. But what do they care? They've made their money from the newbie and sent the newbie on the wrong path (well, the right path, but in the wrong way).

Something else that's helpful for newbies is to use the "search" feature at the top of the page.

Look for specific topics that you would like to learn about, and then read through those topics.

Then take Steven's advice and ask questions within those threads. It doesn't matter if the discussion thread is a few weeks old. Go ahead and post your question to get the conversation going again.

This also makes more sense than posting a brand new discussion thread every time someone has one of the more common questions. Of course, if you're a newbie you probably don't realize it's one of the more common questions.

But there are definitely a lot of topics that have been discussed many, many times. Don't expect the other members of the forum to rehash what they have already discussed. A lot of times, we look at the new threads and think, "Oh, crap. This again? We just went through this last week, the week before, and the week before that."

Learn from the discussions that have already taken place here on the forum. Once you have read through what is already here, then you are in a far better position to ask questions.

Jill

Jill, I hesitated bringing up about using the search function and looking
up old threads on the topic you're interested in because this leads to
people resurrecting threads that are 8 months old and the mods kind of
frown on that, but yes, if you don't abuse it, the search function is great.

[SMP]

Steven,

You can see straight away that I'm new to this forum so this advice could not have been timed better.

Many thanks for this and I look forward to becoming a trusted member of this community.

Steve.

[Devon Brown]

Can we make this thread a sticky?

[George Wright]

Hi Steven,

Your OP is Pure Gold. You should write an eBook on the subject and sell it on the other forums that are giving the bad advice. JK

RE: The search feature. My personal opinion on that is it's for finding that thread that we know exists and want to read it again. It's also for doing great research for newbies and veterans alike. However I hesitate to tell others to use it for the very reason you stated and also because there are not any subjects about Internet Marketing, computers and software that have not been discussed here. Every answer to every question could be "search it." Then of course there would be no reason to discuss anything in the forum.

George Wright

[dave147]

I think they have to realise that everyone has their opinions and experiences, and to take each answer with a "grain of salt" and go with the answers that makes the most sense to them

[Andyhenry]

Good call Steven.

The issue of WSOs is one that probably needs repeating too.

The WSO section makes a lot of people plenty of money - but many people new to the forum have been told it's like shooting fish in a barrel and to rehash PLR material and sell it there. They then wonder why no-one bought their WSO or why the feedback was bad.

The WSO section is supposed to be for unique offers (better than the public get) on your own unique products. Rehashing anything to sell there is a recipe for problems.

The other side of that is that because there are people offering genuinely great stuff - it's a great place to shop.

As a buyer of many thousands of dollars of offers there - I know.

Also, the War Room is a great place to get excellent information and many of those WSO products for free (free because they're being donated to people paying Allen to access the War Room and many warriors appreciate helping those who are serious).

So, if you treat the WSO section like a flea market - expect to get fleas, treat it like a special discount club for great stuff and you'll get great results.

Some people ask questions like "what should I sell in the WSO forum?" - which leads to the obvious answer - nothing. If you have a great product and want to get testimonials or feedback then a WSO is an obvious way to go.

Whether or not to run one, and what for are usually obvious when the situation is right. If you're having to force it, you probably shouldn't be running one.

Andy

[40weeks]

Originally Posted by SMP

Steven,

You can see straight away that I'm new to this forum so this advice could not have been timed better.

Many thanks for this and I look forward to becoming a trusted member of this community.

Steve.

Ditto. I too am a brand new member and new to IM. My friend and I started working on a few sites and our intentions are to learn, not reinvent the wheel, and hopefully contribute what we've learned down the road.

It's a shame that a few bad apples can spoil the whole bunch, but it's true. As I said, we are here to learn and consider the forum a resource not a market place for our products.

Anyway, happy IMing and thanks for the heads up.

Dan & Chris

[theimdude]

Hi Steve,

Thank you for the valued info and we will try our best to comply. I have already purchased 2 WSO and is unable to thank the owners. I even purchased one and the owner choose to refund a lucky buyer which happen to be me. I cant even thank him for that.

Why the strict rules regarding the WSO section in the post.

(Just seen my post count is 30 so I suppose I can do that now)

[Istvan Horvath]

Originally Posted by theimdude

Why the strict rules regarding the WSO section in the post.

I think Andy answered above this question even before you posted it

[mariner7]

"People don't care about how much you know until they know how much you care."

[Fernando Veloso]

A couple weeks ago i saw a new user spamming the forums and guess what? The "system" he saw selling had a "how to" page with guidelines to come here and other IM forums, spam them and say goodbye.

Not cool.

I will try to find the site to show up.

[theimdude]

Originally Posted by The Pension Guy

I think Andy answered above this question even before you posted it

Seen that thanks. I think I was busy doing my post when he did his

[theimdude]

Originally Posted by mariner7

"People don't care about how much you know until they know how much you care."

Correct me if I am wrong but is this an example which Steve is referring to.

[Michael Oksa]

Hi Steven,

This is going to sound cynical, but my intent is to address the bigger issue.

I think your post comes from the right place, but sadly, it probably won't make much of a difference.

The problem lies here...

6. Finally, stop listening to the bad advice that you've been given when
being told to come here. These people have no respect for this
community and ultimately their advice will get you thrown out of here.

With all due respect, how in the world would they KNOW it's bad advice? If that was possible, we wouldn't have the problem in the first place - if that makes sense.

Asking an intelligent question about the advice they are being given would be difficult. Again, this is because they don't know it's bad advice, so how can an intelligent question about be asked?

I know you didn't bring it up, but making this post a sticky wouldn't help either. The rules are already not being read there - otherwise there wouldn't be a need for this post.

To be fair, overall your advice IS spot on. Should be followed. And new people who read and follow it would benefit greatly from it.

So, what can WE do to combat the problem? I think the best way is to do everything we can to be the ones to introduce people to the forum. How that gets done, I'm not sure.

Being first means we give them GOOD advice about the WF. Heck, we can even tell them how to ask questions - even about the advice we give them.

Being first means they don't come in with delusions of grandeur. Less spam. Fewer garbage posts.

Let's take the responsibility for being the gateway to this fine forum. That's what we can do.

All the best,
Michael

p.s. I am really happy to see how many new people are taking your advice to heart.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Hi Steven,

This is going to sound cynical, but my intent is to address the bigger issue.

I think your post comes from the right place, but sadly, it probably won't make much of a difference.

The problem lies here...With all due respect, how in the world would they KNOW it's bad advice? If that was possible, we wouldn't have the problem in the first place - if that makes sense.

Asking an intelligent question about the advice they are being given would be difficult. Again, this is because they don't know it's bad advice, so how can an intelligent question about be asked?

I know you didn't bring it up, but making this post a sticky wouldn't help either. The rules are already not being read there - otherwise there wouldn't be a need for this post.

To be fair, overall your advice IS spot on. Should be followed. And new people who read and follow it would benefit greatly from it.

So, what can WE do to combat the problem? I think the best way is to do everything we can to be the ones to introduce people to the forum. How that gets done, I'm not sure.

Being first means we give them GOOD advice about the WF. Heck, we can even tell them how to ask questions - even about the advice we give them.

Being first means they don't come in with delusions of grandeur. Less spam. Fewer garbage posts.

Let's take the responsibility for being the gateway to this fine forum. That's what we can do.

All the best,
Michael

p.s. I am really happy to see how many new people are taking your advice to heart.

Michael, here is the way I look at it.

If I can prevent even just one person from making a big mistake when
coming here, I've contributed to the betterment of this forum.

If we all took the attitude that the people coming here getting bad
advice don't know it or don't care, well, then for that matter, what's
the point of posting anything positive at all?

Those who don't care won't read it.

Those who don't need it already know it.

From the responses to this thread, you yourself have said that a few
people are taking this info to heart.

Doesn't that in itself suggest that this thread has, at least in a small way,
made a difference?

[shirland]

I have not been in this forum for a long time, but I have found that even though a topic is discussed over and over again. I always seem to learn something new about that topic. The first time I read it maybe I was not focused on it, but by the third time I caught the main points. The advice above is great for newbie. It is also a great refresher for the veterans so they will continue to share their knowledge.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Michael, here is the way I look at it.

If I can prevent even just one person from making a big mistake when
coming here, I've contributed to the betterment of this forum.

If we all took the attitude that the people coming here getting bad
advice don't know it or don't care, well, then for that matter, what's
the point of posting anything positive at all?

Those who don't care won't read it.

Those who don't need it already know it.

From the responses to this thread, you yourself have said that a few
people are taking this info to heart.

Doesn't that in itself suggest that this thread has, at least in a small way,
made a difference?

I guess I'm coming from a place where I'd like to make a bigger difference.

As for whether or not the "if just one person" statement holds up...that's for each of us to decide. Some may think it's worth writing a post foe one person, others may see it as an exercise in futility.

However, I agree with the tips in your post. And, at the same time, I believe the solution I offered would have an even bigger positive impact, and that would be a good thing for all parties involved.

All the best,
Michael

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I guess I'm coming from a place where I'd like to make a bigger difference.

Steven isn't about making a big difference. He's about making a small difference, over and over again. It's just the way he is. And in the end, all those small differences are a big difference.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I guess I'm coming from a place where I'd like to make a bigger difference.

As for whether or not the "if just one person" statement holds up...that's for each of us to decide. Some may think it's worth writing a post foe one person, others may see it as an exercise in futility.

However, I agree with the tips in your post. And, at the same time, I believe the solution I offered would have an even bigger positive impact, and that would be a good thing for all parties involved.

All the best,
Michael

The longest journey biggest with but a single step.

Add up all those "one people at a time" conversions and before you know
it, you have a whole community.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Steven isn't about making a big difference. He's about making a small difference, over and over again. It's just the way he is. And in the end, all those small differences are a big difference.

Hi C,

Point well taken.

Not being a violent person, I wish I could think of a better analogy...

Some people are okay with fighting battle, after battle, after battle.

Others are more interested in winning the war.

If it takes less energy to do the latter, then it seems to make more sense to do it that way.

Ultimately, we are agreeing on the problem, and agree that it's worthy of a solution, but may have differing ideas on how best to solve it.

Little problems require little solutions. Big problems require big solutions.

I still belive that telling new people (who are sent here with bad advice) to ask intelligent questions is practically impossible. How can they even know what an intelligent question is? For that matter, what qualifies as intelligent?

If we can be the ones to send more people here with GOOD advice, then everyone benefits.

All the best,
Michael

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

The longest journey biggest with but a single step.

Add up all those "one people at a time" conversions and before you know
it, you have a whole community.

Agreed.

My main point is: why not try to tip the balance in our favor by being the ones who introduce more people to the forum?

That will help them start off on the right foot. They will be coming in with a better paradigm. Then we don't have to spend so much time and energy re-educating them.

Are we, as a community, sending people here with the right idea of the WF? If the "bad guys" can do it poorly, we good guys can do it much better.

All the best,
Michael

[johnjimat]

i saw that post but i didnt realize that he post to every thread. i think steven post here should be the forum guide

[Hasan Barbary]

There is one approach that I haven't heard mentioned: raise the "barrier to entry" here by forcing new members to take a short quiz, a la eLance. If they don't pass the test, they can't participate.

A basic primer thread (and/or video?) would be the required reading for the newbie. It could cover ALL the points raised here re: forum etiquette, zero tolerance for spamming, how NOT to run a WSO, etc.

Obviously, this would be a "global" change to the environment, and that admin's decision to make.

We might lose a few newbie signups initially, but it would preempt the misguided folks, and teach them how to really benefit from this great forum.

I don't see any other practical way of making the "big difference" mentioned outside of the WF. There's always going to be eager, clueless people looking to get into IM ~ that the demand. Therefore, there will always be a supply of crappy, 3rd party programs telling folks to come here for the wrong reasons.

I suggest that a short entry exam will separate the wheat from the chaff.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

If we can be the ones to send more people here with GOOD advice, then everyone benefits.

Well, as long as we're dreaming, I'd like a pony.

I simply can't imagine any halfway reliable or effective way of doing that. This is my big problem with what I call "WIBNI" people: "Wouldn't It Be Nice If."

That's nice, all right. How do we make it happen?

There are certain things you just plain can't do. You can't stop spam. Spam will be here forever. Are you trying to tell me that the thousands of people sending me offers to enlarge my manhood simply don't know that people don't like this? It's not that they don't know. It's that they don't care. They will happily harass and annoy a million people to sell one $20 bottle of pills.

And if you sat these people down and told them "people don't like spam" - they would say "UP YOURS, BUDDY, I GOT TWENTY BUCKS!"

Don't lose sight of the flip side in this reality: the vast majority of people who join this forum are earnest and honest people who want to follow the rules, and do a pretty good job. The spammers may be an inconvenience, but they are hardly the blight on this forum that we make them out to be.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Agreed.

My main point is: why not try to tip the balance in our favor by being the ones who introduce more people to the forum?

That will help them start off on the right foot. They will be coming in with a better paradigm. Then we don't have to spend so much time and energy re-educating them.

Are we, as a community, sending people here with the right idea of the WF? If the "bad guys" can do it poorly, we good guys can do it much better.

All the best,
Michael

Okay, fair enough.

So let's begin.

1. I actually DO actively promote this forum to people and tell them the
RIGHT way to join and participate. I have this written down in not one but
several of my products. So I'm doing my part. How about you?

2. Want broad solutions to a big problem? Okay, let's try this.

When a person comes here to join, before they are even allowed to pick
a user name, they have to submit their email address and answer a few
questions, tough questions regarding forum behavior. Make it a multiple
choice so at least they have a chance of passing it. The passing grade
must be 100%. One wrong answer and you're not allowed to join.

Then, after they take the test, they have to sign an agreement that
they will not make worthless posts (give examples of what they are)
and will not spam the forum with ads.

Raise the minimum word count for a post to 50 words.

Make people REALLY think before they post.

Make it clear that ONE violation of the rules will lead to a lifetime ban.
This is going to be hard to enforce even if you track IP addresses because
people can get a new IP address easily.

Do not allow signatures until somebody has made 100 posts.

Do not allow the running of a WSO until somebody has made 100 posts
and has been a member for at least 3 months.

I think the above will get rid of 99% of the people who come here with
the primary intention of taking advantage of the forum.

Is the above doable?

I don't know. But it's big, like you suggested and technically it CAN be
implemented, though I am not sure of the hassle to admins that it will
cause.

And no, I am not being facetious with the above suggestion. I am
actually being quite serious. It's extreme and it will certainly weed out
a lot of the bad apples.

But do we want to go there?

I'm not going to answer that question because it's not my forum.

Education before coming? Well, the above is education, test and all.

If you have any other suggestions (specific, not general) I would like to
hear them.

I am all for the big picture...if it's doable.

I'm just not so sure my serious in intent solution above is all that practical.

What do you think?

[BrianTubbs]

Steve, your initial post is great. Very good stuff.

And I also like all your suggestions for improving the WF. Great ideas, except for the lifetime ban over one violation. I think that's a wee-bit harsh. Everything else, though, is great.

[theimdude]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Okay, fair enough.

So let's begin.

1. I actually DO actively promote this forum to people and tell them the
RIGHT way to join and participate. I have this written down in not one but
several of my products. So I'm doing my part. How about you?

2. Want broad solutions to a big problem? Okay, let's try this.

When a person comes here to join, before they are even allowed to pick
a user name, they have to submit their email address and answer a few
questions, tough questions regarding forum behavior. Make it a multiple
choice so at least they have a chance of passing it. The passing grade
must be 100%. One wrong answer and you're not allowed to join.

Then, after they take the test, they have to sign an agreement that
they will not make worthless posts (give examples of what they are)
and will not spam the forum with ads.

Raise the minimum word count for a post to 50 words.

Make people REALLY think before they post.

Make it clear that ONE violation of the rules will lead to a lifetime ban.
This is going to be hard to enforce even if you track IP addresses because
people can get a new IP address easily.

Do not allow signatures until somebody has made 100 posts.

Do not allow the running of a WSO until somebody has made 100 posts
and has been a member for at least 3 months.

I think the above will get rid of 99% of the people who come here with
the primary intention of taking advantage of the forum.

Is the above doable?

I don't know. But it's big, like you suggested and technically it CAN be
implemented, though I am not sure of the hassle to admins that it will
cause.

And no, I am not being facetious with the above suggestion. I am
actually being quite serious. It's extreme and it will certainly weed out
a lot of the bad apples.

But do we want to go there?

I'm not going to answer that question because it's not my forum.

Education before coming? Well, the above is education, test and all.

If you have any other suggestions (specific, not general) I would like to
hear them.

I am all for the big picture...if it's doable.

I'm just not so sure my serious in intent solution above is all that practical.

What do you think?

Rules like this will kill the freedom of the forum so then they might as well make it a paid forum. Why wait 100 post to have a signature and 100 posts to sell WSO when I am paying for the WSO. It is like going to a newspaper and they tell you to buy 100 newspapers before you can advertise.

If people come here to make money selling WSO or websites if they paying for it there shouldn't be any restrictions.

Aren't WSO checked before they approved

All of the above measures will make people spam more to reach the 100 post count.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

I think the above will get rid of 99% of the people who come here with the primary intention of taking advantage of the forum.

...by getting rid of 99% of the people who come here at all.

Here's the bare truth:

In any community, there is an irreducible proportion of jerks.

Ours is pretty low. Fighting it is probably at a point of diminishing returns.

Baby. Bathwater. You know.

[BrianTubbs]

One other thing that might be helpful is a FREE downloadable guide or perhaps a stickied forum along the lines of "WSO Ideas for Newbies."

There are indeed a lot of reports out there in cyberland encouraging new IMers to join the WF and start offering WSOs. And we know how hyped up sales pitches can be. So, these young IMers buy these reports, read about how they can make thousands of dollars at the WF offering WSOs.

But...they don't have any IM experience. They don't have any proof of earnings. No track record. So, what do they do?

This is where the bad choices come in.

So, perhaps we could start a thread that actually discusses this -- what CAN a NEWBIE offer in a WSO?

My first WSO was a set of fresh, wholly original PLR articles and MRR videos. I had some success with it. I made a profit at least.

Any newbie with at least a basic understanding of keyword optimization, target markets, and some writing ability could do that.

If a newbie is into graphics, then she or he could do a graphics package.

This is my critique, though, many of the products out there that promote WSOs as money-making ventures. They appeal to the newbie in their sales copy, but in their CONTENT, they don't really talk TO the newbie about what he or she can offer in the WF.

Just my two cents.

[Shane Hale]

Thanks Steven for very sound advice once again =)

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

...by getting rid of 99% of the people who come here at all.

Here's the bare truth:

In any community, there is an irreducible proportion of jerks.

Ours is pretty low. Fighting it is probably at a point of diminishing returns.

Baby. Bathwater. You know.

I actually agree with you and IMDude. I made the above post to illustrate
a point.

Hopefully, I have done that.

[Martin Luxton]

Steven,

I think we can't change human nature, we can only try and police the bad 'uns by means of posts like yours and flagging problematic threads.

A forum is like society at large, if there are enough concerned citizens doing their duty you can keep a lid on most of the bad stuff.

As you intimated in your post, I don't think Allen will go for a full-scale education programme.

I pretty much agree with CDarklock's comment

Don't lose sight of the flip side in this reality: the vast majority of people who join this forum are earnest and honest people who want to follow the rules, and do a pretty good job. The spammers may be an inconvenience, but they are hardly the blight on this forum that we make them out to be.

Martin

[Steven Wagenheim]

While we're on the subject, let me touch on signatures.

What's wrong with this scenario?

Member comes here and asks the question...

"How can I make money online?"

In his signature we see...

"Make $3,000 A Month On Autopilot" or something like that.

OK, the credibility is shot right off the bat. How can you show people how
to make $3,000 a month if you're asking them how to make money online?

Here's a better signature for somebody still looking to earn some cash.

"Beginning Freelance Writer. Reasonable Rates. Will Show Samples Of Work"

You're not making any claims. You're being up front that you're just
starting out but have enough confidence in your skills to show people
your work.

You just might get some.

Or if you're a graphic artist, or do something else that marketers have a
need for.

Keep your signature real with how you're portraying yourself to others.

And if you come here thinking that you're going to snow people with BS,
think again. There are folks here who can smell out a load of crap a mile
away.

Be real...be honest and guess what?

In the long run, you will come out ahead in so many ways you can't
possibly imagine.

The friends you will make here, alone, can take your business to levels
you've only imagined.

Good reputations take a while to establish.

Bad ones can happen in a heartbeat.

[NewAffilateWealth]

Steven and family I may be a little late on this one but I do agree that you gotta use ya dam head man. Anytime your told to do something that seems over the top then chances are (if you have common sense) that it is!!! Take some time and read around and feel things out then post like you have some dam sense. Now lets all read around, learn something and go implement and make money! Be Well.

[timpears]

It is not hard to contribute to this place, just like you said Steven. I came here about a year ago not knowing anything. I read about the forum in a book I bought through Clickbank and wondered what he was talking about. I came back and keep coming back to read, and I find I am posting a lot more than I used to. I think I might be learning something.

Anyway, even someone like myself who doesn't know much can contribute. I look at my ID and the information below it and see that 14 people have chosen to thank me for something I have posted. All I have posted is stuff that I have learned while I have been here.

If you stick around and read enough, you will learn something. And you can contribute too. If you come here with an attitude that you want to take advantage of the place, then it is best that they get booted as quick as possible. I doubt that they can understand the philosophy of this place.

Great post Steven. Thanks.

[Frank Donovan]

Steven (and Mike)

This discussion is all very worthy, as far as it goes, but it assumes that the real problem is with newcomers not knowing the forum rules or acting under bad advice. There's certainly an element of that, but the main issue is that this forum has become a victim of its own success.

It's now seen, in some marketing circles, as a legitimate tactic to exploit the WSO section, in particular, for quick and easy profits. And to do this, one needs to get to the minimum post threshhold. That's the "advice" they're given. For them, it's only "bad advice" if it doesn't work.

It used to be that the chance to offer a WSO was regarded as a privilege of forum membership. Now it's often seen as a right.

Look at this quote from earlier in the thread:

Originally Posted by theimdude

Why wait 100 post to have a signature and 100 posts to sell WSO when I am paying for the WSO. It is like going to a newspaper and they tell you to buy 100 newspapers before you can advertise.
If people come here to make money selling WSO or websites if they paying for it there shouldn't be any restrictions.

There seems to be a new breed of marketer who sees the forum first and foremost as a place to market their products and any requirement to contribute as a mere inconvenience.

Overall, it's probably just the price we all have to pay for helping to build this forum's reputation. Genies and bottles etc.

But I'd advocate zero tolerance for the "one line wonders" who are clearly out to exploit the system. Education only really works on the willing.


Frank

[SteveFinch]

Thanks very much for all this info. It is greatly appreciated.

[theimdude]

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Steven (and Mike)

There seems to be a new breed of marketer who sees the forum first and foremost as a place to market their products and any requirement to contribute as a mere inconvenience.

Frank

Maybe you misunderstood my point. As a paid service there shouldn't be any restriction as it is advertising and if I pay for it then I paid for it and not anybody else. As all WSO's is moderated there should not be a problem in this area.

On eBay for you to sell certain ways you need a certain score. Well easy just buy a ebook on ebay to tell you how to get that score. If done here the same thing will happen.

At this stage I have no intention of doing a WSO but as a new member I have already purchased 3 WSO's and joined the War Room and even helped a member in the War Room via PM doing something for nothing.

Very frustrating purchasing something on the WSO section and I can't even thank the owner for a good product as I had less that 30 posts.

Sure I would like to contribute and I am trying but never forget that each person here was a new member at some stage

[timpears]

You make a very good point Frank. I never knew anything about the 35 post rule to do a WSO until I was long past that number. It wasn't something that was on my mind, but I came here to learn, not to sell. Personally I think that it should be higher and maybe a time length as well. You can get 35 posts in a day or two if that is your intention.

For the most part, the system works pretty well. The fellow that Steven was referring to got booted pretty quick. I saw another one doing something similar and reported him. Not sure what happened. As long as we are all vigilant, those folks will not be able to do harm.

[Mike30]

I think the post count should be an administrative tool only, Why? because many people judge others for the post count and that's why many members run on posting to get "value" on the post count.

That's my point.
~Mike

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

There seems to be a new breed of marketer who sees the forum first and foremost as a place to market their products and any requirement to contribute as a mere inconvenience.

New? I had people like this on my BBS in 1993. Once they paid their $14.95 for the month, they thought they shouldn't have to follow the rules anymore.

[Frank Donovan]

Hi Imdude

Originally Posted by theimdude

Maybe you misunderstood my point. As a paid service there shouldn't be any restriction as it is advertising and if I pay for it then I paid for it and not anybody else. As all WSO's is moderated there should not be a problem in this area.
On eBay for you to sell certain ways you need a certain score. Well easy just buy a ebook on ebay to tell you how to get that score. If done here the same thing will happen.

I wasn't singling you out - just using your quote as an example. You may well go on to contribute much of value.

However, it's telling that you compare the WF to eBay. They're a dedicated marketplace (unlike the WF) but even there, they felt compelled to close the eBook loophole because of exactly the type of abuse you mention.


Frank

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Mike30

I think the post count should be an administrative tool only, Why? because many people judge others for the post count and that's why many members run on posting to get "value" on the post count.

That's my point.
~Mike

Hi Mike,

Not sure if I completely understood your post or not. I will assume you're saying that the post count should be hidden from public view, and only used by Admin.

That's one of the things that makes the WF different. ALL of us are moderators. I will often refer to post count to see if we have a new "one line wonder" on the forum. So, having post count in plain view does have it uses.

You are right that too many people place too much importance on it. I suppose that can work to the good or the bad.

All the best,
Michael

[theimdude]

Hi Frank,

Understand you point. I was kinda referring to the WSO/Website/Classified section but not the other areas.

This is a great forum and I have already learned a lot and will apply the knowledge to further my income and when I am able give back to WF

[Preben Frenning]

I totally agree with Steven in the OP, and I'd like to add another thing as well.
- Adding a picture of yourself and not having a "hype" username greatly improves your credibility in my eyes.
I REALLY like to see pictures of people I communicate with. Actually, it doesn't really need to be of themself... Just something.

And another thing... When I first got to the warriorforum, (close to 3 years ago) I was lead here from an affiliate page, suggesting I put my affiliate link directly in my sig, and writing many posts on the WF and other places.

I learned a lot, but I ended up being greedy, smacking up a silly promo of some MLM s***, and being "semi-banned", meaning I lost many rights. Having a signature at all being one of them.

I figured it was a REALLY BAD move, I regretted it all, and I simply left the account and signed up using my full name, and started to share what I had learned, and communicate better.

It has worked out great for me, and I feel more part of the community now than ever.
The thing I wanted to say with that, is really that everyone deserves a second chance. They might not realize that the WF is a fantastic place to be,once you're a part of it, and you stay active.

As for me, I've gotten lots of help over the last few years, as well as I have helped a lot of people. That's how it works, and that's how it should work.

And I like the concept of a rule quiz before you are allowed to become a member btw. I think I've seen something similar before. (Could it even have been here?!?)

That was my bunch of cents to this thread... Hopefully a dollar in terms of value

Regards,
Preben

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

New? I had people like this on my BBS in 1993. Once they paid their $14.95 for the month, they thought they shouldn't have to follow the rules anymore.

Yeah. Guess there's nothing new in marketing. I was just using the term in the context of the growing rep of the WSO forum.



Frank

PS @theimdude. No worries. And welcome to the forum.

[Preben Frenning]

As for the post count question, I use it as a good indication for credibility.

Having 100 posts doesn't mean you're a pro, but still, you could be.
Having 5 posts, can still be alright if you have a serious name, a good website in your sig, and a picture. You might just have come from another forum.

But I generally feel that people with 1000+ posts MUST have had a good taste of the forum, and they most likely know a lot. Also, by checking the posts per day, number of thanks, and what kinds of posts the person has can let me find out if it's a credible person or not, so I don't think it should be removed in any way.

However, you don't just notice people on their post count, but on the quality of their posts. - And a few quality posts builds your reputation way more than a high post count with short, useless posts. People will remember you, PM you, thank you and you will contribute a lot to this forum by focusing on posting quality, and only posting when you have something to say, rather than posting to increase your post count.

More cents from me