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How come we don't see basic frames used any more?

by David Beroff
12 replies
[Mods: This is a marketing question, not a programming question. I know how to code frames! Thank you.]

For an upcoming promotion that I'm writing, I'd like to use a website where the instructions are in the top frame, and the site to which the instructions refer will be placed in the bottom frame. (Regular, traditional, "old school" frames, not iframe, etc.)

To me, this makes total sense, and in fact, seems to have been one of the original intended uses of frames.

Yet, I haven't seen anyone use frames in... decades? Does anyone know why? Am I missing something that may make this a Bad Idea? Do mobile devices support frames? Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance!
#basic #frames
  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

    [Mods: This is a marketing question, not a programming question. I know how to code frames! Thank you.]

    For the WSO that I'm writing, I'd like to use a website where the instructions are in the top frame, and the site to which the instructions refer will be placed in the bottom frame. (Regular, traditional, "old school" frames, not iframe, etc.)

    To me, this makes total sense, and in fact, seems to have been one of the original intended uses of frames.

    Yet, I haven't seen anyone use frames in... decades? Does anyone know why? Am I missing something that may make this a Bad Idea? Do mobile devices support frames? Any other ideas?

    Thanks in advance!
    David you know the rules on the WF ? this is classed as self promotion as highlighted and what is in your Sig , just making you aware before it gets nuked
    Jason
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    • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
      Originally Posted by Regional Warrior View Post

      David you know the rules on the WF ? this is classed as self promotion as highlighted and what is in your Sig , just making you aware before it gets nuked
      Jason
      Yah, good point; thanks. Fixed. I forgot that my signature mentions that. It wasn't my intention to promote anything here. Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Star Man
    Most likely because you can use DIVs for everything, unless you want to load an external site into a frame or div.
    The only uses of conventional frames that I can think of, are broker sites that sell templates and websites. They would load the live demo of template into a main frame and the navigation menu or a button to purchase that template into the top frame.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
      Originally Posted by Star Man View Post

      Most likely because you can use DIVs for everything, unless you want to load an external site into a frame or div.
      Yep! The lower frame would be an external site.

      Originally Posted by Star Man View Post

      The only uses of conventional frames that I can think of, are broker sites that sell templates and websites. They would load the live demo of template into a main frame and the navigation menu or a button to purchase that template into the top frame.
      OK, so I'm not so far off, then. Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
    I am no frames expert, but I do know the current SEO plugin I use see's frames or embedded content as "bad". Don't know why. Maybe an expert will chime in. Just thought I'd throw that in. Or maybe it doesn't help
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    • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
      Originally Posted by Ron Killian View Post

      I am no frames expert, but I do know the current SEO plugin I use see's frames or embedded content as "bad". Don't know why. Maybe an expert will chime in. Just thought I'd throw that in. Or maybe it doesn't help
      It does help; thanks. It's a reasonable point. I was actually going to include identical content in the frames and no-frames sections of the HTML, with the only difference being that the no-frames content would require the user to click away, rather than see things happen in the lower frame. Search engine spiders and other minimalistic browsers would see much the same content as those with frames enabled.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
        Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

        It does help; thanks. It's a reasonable point. I was actually going to include identical content in the frames and no-frames sections of the HTML, with the only difference being that the no-frames content would require the user to click away, rather than see things happen in the lower frame. Search engine spiders and other minimalistic browsers would see much the same content as those with frames enabled.

        Could be that people used frames in the past to try and game seo. Load other sites content in frames on their site in hopes of ranking. Auto-blogging, ect.

        Like I said, the seo plugin i use has a check list for each page or post and frames or embedded content is a negative.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by Ron Killian View Post

          Could be that people used frames in the past to try and game seo. Load other sites content in frames on their site in hopes of ranking. Auto-blogging, ect.

          Like I said, the seo plugin i use has a check list for each page or post and frames or embedded content is a negative.
          DING DING DING!

          We have a winner!

          It's one of the reasons iframes were frowned on for so long.

          At one point, spiders had a hard time dealing with frames. So some so-called SEOs would put benign content in the no-frames section, which the spiders read. Then, once the page was indexed, they would put their real objective in the frame.

          Another trick was to use a frame with a height of zero, and pack it with the keyword-loaded garbage text later seen on MFA sites and "bum marketing" articles after that.

          So the SEs started looking at frames sites with a jaundiced eye or eight (taking the spider analogy to ridiculous extremes ). At the same time, advances is html markup and CSS made the primary reason for legit frames unnecessary.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ron Killian
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            DING DING DING!

            We have a winner!
            Yah! What did I win? Never did get the pony I've always wanted.

            Thanks for clearing it up. Makes sense.
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          • Profile picture of the author David Beroff
            The framed site will be behind a paywall, anyway, so I'm not too worried about SEO here.

            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            At the same time, advances is html markup and CSS made the primary reason for legit frames unnecessary.
            Honest question; not being confrontational: How would you do what I'm describing with CSS?
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

              The framed site will be behind a paywall, anyway, so I'm not too worried about SEO here.
              Then using traditional frames should not present any issues.

              Originally Posted by David Beroff View Post

              Honest question; not being confrontational: How would you do what I'm describing with CSS?
              Actually, it would be a combination of CSS and javascript.

              I would set up two DIVs, corresponding to the top and bottom frames. Fix the top DIV to the top of the page.

              In the bottom div, use javascript to include the page you want to display.

              Since you aren't concerned with SEO for this application, traditional frames are admittedly simpler to use.
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