Do You Hate Selling And Promoting?

by 39 comments
This thread will potentially tick a few people off but it's worth it if I can reach just a few people with the message. I was compelled to write this by a recent PM from an angry individual.

My hope is that a few experienced entrepreneurs will share their insights on this issue and we can end up with a good discussion.

This Is A Fairly Serious Problem For A Lot Of Struggling "Marketers"

I see a lot of people who claim to be marketers who...
  • Become angry if they receive "too many promotions" from a newsletter.
  • See upgrade offers on purchases they have made.
  • Receive follow-up and add-on promotions after making a purchase.
  • See a OTO when they login to their member account for the first time.
  • Get ticked when they read sales letters with a lof of "Action"; bold text, highlights, testimonials, and "hype".

My concern is simple...

We Cannot Be What We Despise And Resent!

If someone hates selling and promoting, how on earth do they expect to sell a lot of things online???

I really see this as part of poverty complex. And it strikes a real chord with me because I used to have this problem in a big way.

I was trying to earn money online but I got really pissed when people had the nerve to try and sell me something. Ludicrous huh?

In my case I was fortunate. Gary Ambrose, who some of you may know of, saw a post I made in a forum, picked up the phone, and gave me a call. He gave me some real insight and pretty much told me if I really hated selling and passionate promotin I needed to find a new career because I was pretty unlikely to make any money as a marketer myself.

This makes such perfect sense but I couldn't see it until someone on the outside pointed it out to me.

If you honestly relate to my bullet list above and have an aversion to selling and marketing here's something to consider:

Do you get angry when you buy a laptop at Circuit City and they ask if you'd like a laptop bag or printer to go with that? Are you enraged when you find Best Buy flyers in your mailbox, or when your insurance agent offers you the upgrade on your life coverage?

Often people do not get mad in the above scenarios. But these same individuals feel online entreprenerus are bound by some bizarre "code of honor" and therefore should not make follow-up and backend offers to their customer base.

I'd like to hear what other successful marketers have to say on this. And I'd even like to hear from some readers who want to be marketers but get ticked off any time somebody else tries to sell them something.

Here's hoping this thread doesn't get buried under a ton of other topics and we can end up with a stimulating convo.
#internet marketing #entrepreneur #hate #marketing #positive attitude #promoting #selling #success mindset
  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    tim, i agree 100% with you.. there seems to be a ton of 'marketers' around here who hate being marketed, sold to, and promoted to. "Sales" seems to be a dirty word for a lot of people (or at least to their ego's).

    Accept it or not, we are attempting to be sales professionals and promoters.

    If I was looking to hire a promoter for my business, and they said "making as much money as possible from this promotion isn't everything", I would say "NEXT!"..

    If I was hiring a sales person, and they said "it isn't only about making money", I would say "NEXT!"

    That's like a coach saying 'winning isn't everything'.. maybe not for kid's teams, but we're talking the pro's here.

    At the end of the day, People VOTE WITH THEIR WALLET.
    • Profile picture of the author artwebster
      Hi, Tim,

      While I agree with what you say, I also am in sympathy with many people who feel that the level of marketing is a little extreme.

      There is, however, an aspect of internet marketing that has to be taken into account - FAR TOO MANY SELLERS ON THE INTERNET BREAK FAITH WITH THEIR CUSTOMERS.:confused:

      In my years on the periphery of internet marketing I cannot count the number of times I have joined a mailing list, bought a product(s), learned to trust the marketer and then been presented (and sold) the proverbial heap of unmentionable.

      My most recent experience of this has really knocked my faith in internet marketers clear out of the ball park because I really trusted a marketer from whom I had bought several good products. The last purchase, at $127 a little more than frivolous spending, was a product that simply did not function at any level and for which the support tickets might as well have been written in steam. No amount of effort in contacting this guy has produced a response.

      Another aspect that you have to take in to account is also the sheer volume of identical emails you receive from all over the place. I like to read clever and well crafted sales presentations - but not 47 times!!!:rolleyes:
    • Profile picture of the author salamandar
      In part, I believe the problem is that, transitioning from non-marketer to marketer is similar to going from being an ordinary audience member and being a magician watching a magic show. When you are an audience member you are (usually) happy to watch, enjoy and applaud the sleight-of=hand. When you are one magician watching another, there is a temptation to be annoyed at the effrontery of another person "in your club" to try and trick you.

      As a marketer, your general audience may be totally accepting of your marketing methods because they don't realize that there is a system being followed. Marketers know they are being subjected to a system and resent it.

      Perhaps there should be some kind of code...
    • Profile picture of the author stayhomedads

      It's really funny how people got onto my mailing list by requesting a resource to teach them how to make money on the Internet, then immediately unsubscribe or send me an email about how there are too many promotions!

      I mean, come on people!

      Like you said, how can we expect to become what we despise?

      I don't send out emails that say, Buy This Product, without giving content related to the product. The products I offer are usually related to how to solve problems or make life easier for Internet Marketers, so I don't get it.

      If people want to make money on the Internet and learn from those who do, then they need to learn that they will have to PAY to learn.

      Yeah, there ARE free things on the Internet about marketing, but the best resources and tools always cost.

      It's just a funny fact of life.

      Kinda like "Doctors make the worst patients."

      Do Marketers make the worst customers?

  • Profile picture of the author jestershaw
    Wow, I can't believe I am one of "those" people. I hate the countless emails I get from 10 different people about the same awesomely new internet breakthrough. Maybe I should be studying the emails instead of mass deleting them. Great post...opened up my eyes.
  • Profile picture of the author Preben Frenning
    Tim, I totally agree with you about what you said to my post.

    What I really meant, was products you get "almost for free", which is a teaser product. It IS possbile to get te results from the salespage, but you'll need the OTO. I can't stand those products...
    However, OTO's related to the main products, as well as it might even increase the initial value of if NOT MENTIONED ON THE SALESPAGE then I truly enjoy them.

    I bookmark the OTO page, try the product, and buy it later. Or simply purchase immediately if it looks good enough.

    That was what I meant =P
    So I have nothing against regular OTO's.

    - Preben
    • Profile picture of the author dpepper
      Maybe if they stop referring to us as cows some folks wouldn't get offended. There's a difference in marketers, some really do offer good advice and don't try to sell you a new product in every email.

      I've have other marketers send me an email everyday with yet another "buy this it's the greatest product". Honestly they don't care if you opt out and stop buying, they want you off their list anyway once you stop producing milk. Read their books they will tell you to do the same thing.

      So I guess we need to become farmers or just keep mooing!
  • Profile picture of the author Marc Lindsay
    Go listen or read anything by.

    Joe Girard

    Joe Girard - World's Greatest Salesperson, Best Selling Author, Lecturer and Motivational Speaker

    This guy is very nice to listen too

    Just brilliant

  • Profile picture of the author netkickstart
    Preben took the words out of my mouth. A major difference between your example of Circuit City asking about cables and the on-line marketer's toolbox, is the former is usually a downsell, whereas with internet marketing it's often an "essential" upsell to make the front-end worth anything. But, you've already addressed the issue, namely, that it's important the initial product is quality and can stand alone.
  • Profile picture of the author napoleonfirst
    No, you just need to have the right tools like Trackboost, WebCeo, Article Marketer, etc.
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Hey Tim and All...

    I'll be the contrarian and say I don't buy the premise. If I don't like an aspect of IM, I don't use it.

    I'm "Kurt" first, an IM second.

    People say you can't be yourself...But I like to bring up JC Penney a lot. JC was probably a much better marketer than anyone on this thread. Yet, he wouldn't break his principles just to make a few extra bucks.

    Here's two examples:

    - Back in the day, you went to a general store and had to barter the best price for each and every item. JC didn't like this and decided he would sell his merchandise for the very lowest price he could and still make a profit. This is now how EVERY store in the US works.

    - After he went public and had stock holders, there was a board meeting to vote on creating a JC Penny credit card. The vote was 50-1 in favor of the credit card, with JC himself being the only person opposed.

    JC said that he knew that issuing a store credit card would increase profits, but he didn't want to be resposible for folks getting into debt and he didn't want to profit off of this.

    The point is, you can make money and not have to do things everyone else says you "have to" do. And there are very succesful people that make a lot of money that do things there own way and don't follow the heard.

    Some of us don't do IM to make as much as we can. Personally, I do IM so I can live the life I want to live, which means having a lot of "free time", and I don't need a lot of money to do so. If I make a little less money, so be it. I've supported myself for 12 years online and have done tons of things "wrong", but I'm still here.

    "You cannot ATTAIN what you DISDAIN."
    Sorry, but I don't understand this...You seem to have transposed different things.

    I disdain over-eager marketing. What I want to attain is money and free time. To me, they are not the same thing.
    • Profile picture of the author Tim Whiston
      Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

      "You cannot ATTAIN what you DISDAIN."

      -- Tim W.
      I like it!

      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      [FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]OK, I’ll admit that I hate the marketing part of my own business. I’d much rather use the time to spend on developmentThere is a lot more to the art and science of marketing than just blasting 2 or 3 emails a day out to your entire list or doing 27 OTO’s after every offer. That’s not marketing to me – that’s the equivalent of someone approaching your car at a stop light and trying to sell you flowers or whatever.

      And I’m not suggesting that those fishing expeditions aren’t profitable, but I’d bet my last dollar that those doing it are still leaving a lot more money on the table.

      Maybe you’ve got 200 customers who all have an interest in Adsense. Within that group, you know 50 do blackhat stuff, 100 use XsitePro and the remainder outsource it all. If you’ve got a product targeted at the group, add personalized up sells, down sells, cross sells targeting the smaller segments within the group as well.

      Being in IM makes this sort of thing a hell of a lot easier to do, but it does take understanding your market. After all, isn’t that one of the golden rules?

      In any event, if you’re going to be in IM, then it would help to actually learn about marketing.
      To be 100% honest I'm foremost a writer. I continue to learn marketing so I can sell the products I create.

      I think ideally - in the future - I'll have help on the marketing front and be able to spend more time just writing and creating.

      And such great points about segmenting the lists up. I'm starting to do this on some level; creating sublists and making notes about the specifics in each group. I believe it will take me a little while to really refine this process but as you said it will mean far greater profit long-term.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Hey Tim and All...

      I'll be the contrarian and say I don't buy the premise. If I don't like an aspect of IM, I don't use it.

      I'm "Kurt" first, an IM second.
      Yeah I agree with you. In one of my replies above I said if someone really just flat out hates selling they can always find other ways to make it.

      What I was really getting at when I started this thread was not to suggest that people must conform and all become sales types. My main point was the people who just get pissed every time they see a follow-up offer and totally go on about how "it's all hype" are not that likely to make good money in a marketing field.
  • Profile picture of the author dpepper

    The reason I say that is I've read many a book or report calling mailing lists recipients "cash cows" I didn't mean it in a negative way. You may have also heard the expression "a license to print money" by having a mailing list or "the money is in the list".

    If you balance between marketing and offering helpful advice (not pitching a product constantly) more folks might stay on your list longer therefore you will still have the opportunity to make money long term.
    • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
      Originally Posted by dpepper View Post

      The reason I say that is I've read many a book or report calling mailing lists recipients "cash cows" I didn't mean it in a negative way. You may have also heard the expression "a license to print money" by having a mailing list or "the money is in the list".
      The term "cash cow" does not refer the the customers. It refers to the product or the business:
      Cash cow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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