Click Bank Vendor Pulled a Bait and Switch

[Christian Fox]

I've been promoting a vendors product with three of my websites and haven't made a sale in some time. So I did some checking into it and click on my affiliate link and what do I discover?

Well lets see, he's added a very prominent opt in so I submit my information and wait for my e-mail. Of course, he's baiting people in with free information. So to make a long story short, I clicked on the link that is In the e-mail and what you know no affiliate link.

So I go back to the page and dig a little deeper. As if that wasn't bad enough on the second page, there's another enticing offer for free information via SMS text messaging. Of course there is no affiliate link associated with that either.

At this point I'm getting a little upset because I have been promoting this guy's stuff for some time, sending him free traffic.

So I figure I'll give the vendor an option of giving me a page link without the opt in or I'm going to stop promoting its product. However there is no affiliate link to be found anywhere and I can't find the product on click bank to save my ass.

So here I am sitting with three websites devoted to this guy's product. All my back links are of course somewhat related to this product directly, and I cant even get a hold of the vendor.

Obviously, he's trying to make it difficult for his affiliates to get in touch with him because it there was a very obvious affiliate link before this update whenever it happened.

I'm going to drop The vendors product and promote another related product, but it's still ticks me off. Will it do me any good to complain to click bank? I think this is a deliberate attempt to get some free traffic from affiliates like myself.

Has anyone else had this happen?

Another thing that really bothers me is that even if I stop promoting this guy's stuff. I have hundreds of Web 2.0 pages out there with direct affiliate links are doing me no good. It makes me want to set up a redirect page for all of my future affiliate links just so this does not happen. Is this feasible, then I could have simply redirected those links to whatever offer I choose to promote instead of continuing to stuff this guy's wallet.

I know I could look into linking directly to the click bank sales page, but when a vendor is obviously trying to defraud his affiliates like this I am not going to promote his product in any way shape or form.

[Rob Thayer]

Can't you just rip the guy's site, host it yourself on a similar domain, and change the opt-in to your own autoresponder? That way you are in complete control of the sales page and you get to build a nice little list as a bonus.

[Christian Fox]

Originally Posted by Rob Thayer

Can't you just rip the guy's site, host it yourself on a similar domain, and change the opt-in to your own autoresponder? That way you are in complete control of the sales page and you get to build a nice little list as a bonus.

I could do that

Hmmmm that has me thinking...

I'd probably get kicked out of Clickbank for that if I got caught?

[SolomonHuey]

I'm not sure what you can do with regards to clickbank... but here is what you should do in the future regarding your affiliate promotions:

1) Send traffic to your own squeeze pages and build your list FIRST, then promote whatever the heck you want to

2) Stop promoting direct affiliate links unless it's on your own websites

Do that and if this ever happens again, your hard work is never wasted.

Solomon Huey

[Gail Sober]

It makes me want to set up a redirect page for all of my future affiliate links just so this does not happen

That one sentence alone is probably worth whatever inconvienence this may cause you.

If you have or can get access to shell on your hosting, you can do a search and replace for the links there. (to your new redirect page).
grep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That doesn't help with links on sites you don't have server access to. I can't tell you how many nights I've spent in the past swapping links. ugh

[Rob Thayer]

I doubt it, people do it all the time for those very reasons. As an affiliate, your job is to effectively promote the vendor's product. Personally, I don't think that most vendors would object to it as long as you are bringing in sales.

I looked at the Clickbank Client Contract and saw nothing about this, but that doesn't mean it is legal. Technically, the vendor owns the rights to the text and images. If you're really uncomfortable, just ask them for permission. If they refuse, then screw 'em... find another product to promote.

[Christian Fox]

Originally Posted by SolomonHuey

I'm not sure what you can do with regards to clickbank... but here is what you should do in the future regarding your affiliate promotions:

1) Send traffic to your own squeeze pages and build your list FIRST, then promote whatever the heck you want to

2) Stop promoting direct affiliate links unless it's on your own websites

Do that and if this ever happens again, your hard work is never wasted.

Solomon Huey

That is good advice... I'll never stop learning things.

Thx

[Marcus Paul]

Basically CB could have kicked him out and that's why his product isn't there anymore. I don't think they track who has active links for someone. I am surprised the CB aff links continue to take you to his site if he is not in the network anymore. So I would suggest contacting them and maybe they can give you a link to the product in their directory.

Unfortunately this why you have to build links to your own websites and then link to affiliate products from your websites. I imagine many of your links on other sites cannot be edited, so he will continue to get free traffic from them. I live by a rule that if I can't modify a link later than I have to send that link to one of my websites.

But that's like describing the water while you're drowning, I know.......

[Christian Fox]

Originally Posted by Gail Sober

That one sentence alone is probably worth whatever inconvienence this may cause you.

If you have or can get access to shell on your hosting, you can do a search and replace for the links there. (to your new redirect page).
grep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That doesn't help with links on sites you don't have server access to. I can't tell you how many nights I've spent in the past swapping links. ugh

I agree....The 'education' of an affiliate marketer... Lesson learned..

[mikeyman120]

Originally Posted by Marcus Paul

Basically CB could have kicked him out and that's why his product isn't there anymore. I don't think they track who has active links for someone. I am surprised the CB aff links continue to take you to his site if he is not in the network anymore

Marcus if the vendor doesn't have at least one sale a month they will fall out of the clickbank marketplace and thus you can't find them there. Could be that.

Mike

[mikeyman120]

Originally Posted by Christian Fox

It makes me want to set up a redirect page for all of my future affiliate links just so this does not happen. Is this feasible, then I could have simply redirected those links to whatever offer I choose to promote instead of continuing to stuff this guy's wallet.

Christain. definetly do that. It helps for just these kinds of situations.

Mike

[Mreese601@gmail.com]

So this is a little off the subject but I'm new and I'm promoting someone product and I was wondering how do you set up a squeeze page?

[Christian Fox]

Originally Posted by SolomonHuey

I'm not sure what you can do with regards to clickbank... but here is what you should do in the future regarding your affiliate promotions:

1) Send traffic to your own squeeze pages and build your list FIRST, then promote whatever the heck you want to

2) Stop promoting direct affiliate links unless it's on your own websites

Do that and if this ever happens again, your hard work is never wasted.

Solomon Huey

Actually I do have some direct links but..... As an SENUKE subscriber I can really crank out backlinks/2.0 properties.... If I were to directly link that many links to a squeeze page it would end up in the sandbox. I rely mainly on organic traffic and a basic squeeze page wont rank without good keyword related content. I basically have a squeeze page for every keyword in order to rank well in the organic serps...

It is a conundrum.

Perhaps I should look into doing things a bit differently but I am at a loss for a better way as of right now...

I am learning PPC now but I know I need to know what I am doing or I will not see a positive cash flow...

[Christian Fox]

Originally Posted by Rob Thayer

I doubt it, people do it all the time for those very reasons. As an affiliate, your job is to effectively promote the vendor's product. Personally, I don't think that most vendors would object to it as long as you are bringing in sales.

I looked at the Clickbank Client Contract and saw nothing about this, but that doesn't mean it is legal. Technically, the vendor owns the rights to the text and images. If you're really uncomfortable, just ask them for permission. If they refuse, then screw 'em... find another product to promote.

If I were to rip it, it would not rank well at all. I imagine this approach will only work with PPC?

[laynee]

So...can you build a list with a Clickbank product if you're the vendor? Wouldn't you always lose your affiliate hoplink if the person decides to sign up for your list instead of purchase at that point? This is something I've been wondering about.
Laynee

[Christian Fox]

Originally Posted by laynee

So...can you build a list with a Clickbank product if you're the vendor? Wouldn't you always lose your affiliate hoplink if the person decides to sign up for your list instead of purchase at that point? This is something I've been wondering about.
Laynee

I have vendors that I will let build a list because their emails sent out by their opt ins contain my hoplink. If they don't then obviously that is bad...

This is easily checked, just opt in and follow to the order page. Look for affiliate = "you" at the bottom.

[morry]

I don't really know what you're worried about. People get cookied when they click your link. If someone clicks your affiliate link, goes to the vendors page and opts in, you'll still get the sale if he buys from the email (as long as it's within 60 days).

As long as the vendor doesn't use his own hoplink there shouldn't be a problem.

I own several products and I have no idea how to setup my list so that my emails contain the hoplinks of the affiliates who sent the leads to my list...

I did a blast last week and a few affiliates popped up with sales because their cookies were still installed on the customers computers.

Sean

[lexscripta]

Originally Posted by SolomonHuey

I'm not sure what you can do with regards to clickbank... but here is what you should do in the future regarding your affiliate promotions:

1) Send traffic to your own squeeze pages and build your list FIRST, then promote whatever the heck you want to

2) Stop promoting direct affiliate links unless it's on your own websites

Do that and if this ever happens again, your hard work is never wasted.

Solomon Huey

I like this idea, but sometimes the merchant has a squeeze page too. This would seem to be a bit aggravating for a potential customer

[naughtyneo]

Is it DoublingStocks?
The whole domain itself is redirecting to daytradingrobot.com So forget about any affiliate commission.
Clickbank should have some way of informing the affiliates about sites which are not longer available in their network.

[disi]

Originally Posted by SolomonHuey

2) Stop promoting direct affiliate links unless it's on your own websites

Sorry Christian for hijacking your thread for a second...How hard it is to find vendor that allows to sell his products via YOUR website? I am beginner and I thought this is the way it is done. Now, as I can see, it looks like vendors want affiliates only to promothe "their" websites. What a silly idea that is for me...

Are ther affiliates that allow to sell their products directly via MY own website? Is this a 'rare' thing at CB/PayDotCom?

[theimdude]

Originally Posted by disi

Sorry Christian for hijacking your thread for a second...How hard it is to find vendor that allows to sell his products via YOUR website? I am beginner and I thought this is the way it is done. Now, as I can see, it looks like vendors want affiliates only to promothe "their" websites. What a silly idea that is for me...

Are ther affiliates that allow to sell their products directly via MY own website? Is this a 'rare' thing at CB/PayDotCom?

I have done a hoplink like this
2.affiliate_vendor.pay. clickbank . net

And it goes directly to the CB sales page. Not sure if it still work as it works
on the one site I am using. On the other problem I have lately noticed when I click on a
CD hoplink it first goto another domain and then to the vendor site.

If possible Christian would mind naming the vendor so that we can adjust accordingly

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by morry

If someone clicks your affiliate link, goes to the vendors page and opts in, you'll still get the sale if he buys from the email (as long as it's within 60 days).

I'm astonished to imagine that you seriously believe that, Sean!! What proportion of such sales, across Clickbank, do you think end up being attributed either to the vendor or to his wife or to his brother's dog because a subsequent link's been sent in an email?

You're surely not suggesting that a potential affiliate should have to check out the vendor's entire autoresponder sequence as well as everything else, before deciding what to promote?!

Who wants to take a chance like that, when you don't need to?

Originally Posted by morry

As long as the vendor doesn't use his own hoplink there shouldn't be a problem.

LOL. You could just as easily say "As long as you don't ever become an affiliate for a product with an opt-in on the sales page, there shouldn't be a problem". And that's what many of us are saying, and very consistently, too.

In fact that's even easier to say.

Why should we have to worry about the vendor's honesty when there are so many other products to choose from?!

(Obviously I don't mean you, Sean, I hasten to say: I already know from knowing you 'off the board' that you're entirely honest and supportive of your affiliates - I'm just generalising here).

And here's the thing: there are plenty of vendors who understand that, too! So there's no shortage of marketable products without a vendor's opt-in.

[DougBarger]

Very timely thread Christian.

Vendors/Publishers pay attention!

Affiliates, do due diligence!

Product creators doing research...this is a hot topic! ;-)

[mikeyman120]

Originally Posted by morry

As long as the vendor doesn't use his own hoplink there shouldn't be a problem.

Sean

Correct!

Lets say you have 2 vendors on Clickbank both selling the same exact product with the same exact website and the same bonuses for the same price and they give the affiliate the same amount. BOth are extrememly honest and would never try to overwrite an affiliate cookie. One has an optin form and one doesn't! Who are you going to promote - The vendor with the opt in form of course as he is the one helping close the sale which will benefit the affiliate.

Mike

[Christian Fox]

Originally Posted by naughtyneo

Is it DoublingStocks?
The whole domain itself is redirecting to daytradingrobot.com So forget about any affiliate commission.
Clickbank should have some way of informing the affiliates about sites which are not longer available in their network.

Actually it now WAS Daytrading Robot.....

Wow he's actually dirtier than I thought... Nice.
I feel like driving to Miami....

I don't mind calling it out...

[Christian Fox]

Originally Posted by morry

I don't really know what you're worried about. People get cookied when they click your link. If someone clicks your affiliate link, goes to the vendors page and opts in, you'll still get the sale if he buys from the email (as long as it's within 60 days).

As long as the vendor doesn't use his own hoplink there shouldn't be a problem.

I own several products and I have no idea how to setup my list so that my emails contain the hoplinks of the affiliates who sent the leads to my list...

I did a blast last week and a few affiliates popped up with sales because their cookies were still installed on the customers computers.

Sean

Sure if they are not wiping out my cookie (this guy was). I test these links and he is either overwriting my cookie or putting in a new link that wipes it out. I follow these email all the way to the order page and there is no reference of me at all anywhere. This is NOT the first time I have had this happen with an opt in.

[Christian Fox]

Originally Posted by mikeyman120

Correct!

Lets say you have 2 vendors on Clickbank both selling the same exact product with the same exact website and the same bonuses for the same price and they give the affiliate the same amount. BOth are extrememly honest and would never try to overwrite an affiliate cookie. One has an optin form and one doesn't! Who are you going to promote - The vendor with the opt in form of course as he is the one helping close the sale which will benefit the affiliate.

Mike

Right but now I have to wonder after what email do they stop being honest. I know what you are saying and I know the follow up emails will increase conversions...

That said I am quickly losing trust with CB vendors...

We should have an entire section devoted to calling out these vendors so we can keep a look out for each other. Right now I am promoting about 35 vendors I don't have time to babysit them all and run through their entire auto responder sequences to make sure they are not opening the cookie jar.

[Christian Fox]

Originally Posted by alexa_s

I'm astonished to imagine that you seriously believe that, Sean!! What proportion of such sales, across Clickbank, do you think end up being attributed either to the vendor or to his wife or to his brother's dog because a subsequent link's been sent in an email?

You're surely not suggesting that a potential affiliate should have to check out the vendor's entire autoresponder sequence as well as everything else, before deciding what to promote?!

Who wants to take a chance like that, when you don't need to?



LOL. You could just as easily say "As long as you don't ever become an affiliate for a product with an opt-in on the sales page, there shouldn't be a problem". And that's what many of us are saying, and very consistently, too.

In fact that's even easier to say.

Why should we have to worry about the vendor's honesty when there are so many other products to choose from?!

(Obviously I don't mean you, Sean, I hasten to say: I already know from knowing you 'off the board' that you're entirely honest and supportive of your affiliates - I'm just generalising here).

And here's the thing: there are plenty of vendors who understand that, too! So there's no shortage of marketable products without a vendor's opt-in.

I agree, because of this I immediately go to the next vendor if I see an opt in. They can just as easily build a list after the sale can't they? They could easily put whatever they want into their product. At this point I have made my sale so whatev...

[Kelly Verge]

This won't help Christian with his array of sites, but I've talked about my work-around in another thread and it's worth repeating again:

1. Subscribe to their list
2. Duplicate their freebie (don't copy)
3. Duplicate their emails (don't copy)
4. Offer your traffic the same freebie to sign up to YOUR list
5. In your emails you have your affiliate link. Your subscribers will have no reason to sign up for the vendor's list. If they want to buy, you get the credit
6. If you're getting enough traffic, replace their sales page and product with yours.
7. After promoting this product a few times to your list, you can then send other related offers (including CPA offers, if applicable)

[b.super13]

What you should be doing is building your own list. You can also entice people to join with free offers. Then when you have thousands of people on your list you can just send out an email with your affiliate link and not the vendors or send an email about a product that you created. But, I agree with what others have said, send all your traffic to a squeeze page.

[gacott]

FYI, it is in the CB terms and conditions (as a vendor) that your product web page does not change substantially. They could get booted because of that.

I would complain to CB on that basis.

Garret

[LB]

Once cookied, you will get credit for the next 60 days unless your prospect clicks on another affiliate's link. Some people advocate that vendors should pull the affiliate link and append it to the autoresponder series...this effectively credits the first affiliate rather than the last and I'm not sure what CB's feelings are on this.

Obviously, he's trying to make it difficult for his affiliates to get in touch with him because it there was a very obvious affiliate link before this update whenever it happened.

90% of people on these boards bitch and moan when vendors HAVE an affiliate link as they claim it will impact their own commissions. Although I don't think it to be a big deal as some make it, most would say no affiliate link on the page is a GOOD thing for affiliates.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by LB

most would say no affiliate link on the page is a GOOD thing for affiliates.

If you mean "no opt-in on the page", then yes, I think most professional/serious affiliates agree that that's clearly a good thing: it means you don't have to worry about that particular aspect.

[morry]

Originally Posted by alexa_s

I'm astonished to imagine that you seriously believe that, Sean!! What proportion of such sales, across Clickbank, do you think end up being attributed either to the vendor or to his wife or to his brother's dog because a subsequent link's been sent in an email?

You're surely not suggesting that a potential affiliate should have to check out the vendor's entire autoresponder sequence as well as everything else, before deciding what to promote?!

Who wants to take a chance like that, when you don't need to?

How is checking an autoresponder taking a chance? If you check it, you can not only check the quality of it, but you'll also see if the vendor is doing anything dodgy. If you're a serious affiliate, taking a minute to read an autoresponder everyday is hardly an effort.

I own several products on Clickbank and it's in my best interest to make sure my affiliates make as many sales as possible. The more sales they make, the more likely they are to continue promoting it.

I get a TON of sales from my lists and I have promotions that are geared towards making early sales, which means extra sales for affiliates. So promoting a sales page with opt in will boost your sales. If you're doing PPC, it could very well be the difference between profit and loss.

Using my own hoplink might be great in the short term, but it will kill my business long term.

I know several guys who own tons of products and not one of them ever places their own affiliate link in the autoresponder. I'm sure there are vendors dumb enough to do this, but you don't want to be promoting guys who do.

LOL. You could just as easily say "As long as you don't ever become an affiliate for a product with an opt-in on the sales page, there shouldn't be a problem". And that's what many of us are saying, and very consistently, too.

In fact that's even easier to say.

Why should we have to worry about the vendor's honesty when there are so many other products to choose from?!

(Obviously I don't mean you, Sean, I hasten to say: I already know from knowing you 'off the board' that you're entirely honest and supportive of your affiliates - I'm just generalising here).

And here's the thing: there are plenty of vendors who understand that, too! So there's no shortage of marketable products without a vendor's opt-in.

You want to promote an honest vendor (and I think most are) who uses an opt in form because you'll get more sales. You want to give him extra chances to sell the person you sent to their website.

One of the things you want to do as a Clickbank vendor is rise up the rankings. And one way to do this is through gravity. Sure, there are some dodgy vendors, but I'm certain you'll make more money promoting sales pages with an opt in form.

Sean

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by morry

How is checking an autoresponder taking a chance?

The nice simple questions, first, is it? The chance is that it can change after you checked it.

Originally Posted by morry

If you're a serious affiliate, taking a minute to read an autoresponder everyday is hardly an effort.

It's not a great effort. Just an unnecessary one. Why take a chance when you don't need to?

Originally Posted by morry

Using my own hoplink might be great in the short term, but it will kill my business long term.

We know that you know this and act accordingly.

There are thousands of other vendors we don't know and don't need to take a chance on, if we just stick to the huge numbers of products without an opt-in on the sales page.

Originally Posted by morry

I'm sure there are vendors dumb enough to do this, but you don't want to be promoting guys who do.

There's one very, very easy way to make sure you don't.

Originally Posted by morry

One of the things you want to do as a Clickbank vendor is rise up the rankings. And one way to do this is through gravity.

One way, arguably. Not the best way.

Originally Posted by morry

Sure, there are some dodgy vendors

We know.

Originally Posted by morry

I'm certain you'll make more money promoting sales pages with an opt in form.

Curious, the number of professional affiliates who seem to disagree, Sean ...

Originally Posted by Christian Fox

I agree, because of this I immediately go to the next vendor if I see an opt in.

Absolutely. Same here. Who needs to worry about stuff like this on top of all the other issues that arise when you deal with Clickbank?!

[adamv]

Originally Posted by Christian Fox

Another thing that really bothers me is that even if I stop promoting this guy's stuff. I have hundreds of Web 2.0 pages out there with direct affiliate links are doing me no good. It makes me want to set up a redirect page for all of my future affiliate links just so this does not happen. Is this feasible, then I could have simply redirected those links to whatever offer I choose to promote instead of continuing to stuff this guy's wallet.

I think that's exactly what you should do. Set up a redirect so that if you ever find that you're getting screwed you can make one change to promote another program rather than going back and changing hundreds of individual links.

If you promote CPA offers at all, you would know that those kinds of offers come and go quickly sometimes. I was promoting something recently and after 2 weeks the program was taken down. I just set my redirect to a similar offer and in 5 minutes I'm done.

[morry]

What products are you heavily promoting Alexa? Do you know any vendors yourself that do dodgy stuff with their autoresponders? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to out them in public.

Virtually all the products I promote use opt ins because they want to build a relationship with visitors, just as I do with all my products.

Sean

[mikeyman120]

Originally Posted by Christian Fox

I agree, because of this I immediately go to the next vendor if I see an opt in.

Originally Posted by alexa_s

If you mean "no opt-in on the page", then yes, I think most professional/serious affiliates agree that that's clearly a good thing: it means you don't have to worry about that particular aspect.

How do you guys know that the vendor that has no opt in isn't trying to cheat you out of commissions. Maybe they have a php script or some script designed to set the affiliate cookie to affiliate=none. Are you checking each vendors code to be sure of this before promoting their stuff. Or maybe they are even more clever and they have a script which makes your affiliate id appear at the bottom of the clickbank order form but you get no credit. People with optin forms are not the only ones who can cheat you out of your commission. So does this mean when you guys find a vendor with no optin who has found a way to cheat someone that you are going to ban promoting vendors with no optin also. All vendors have an optin or they don't and if you ban them all who are you going to promote. Or are you going to give up internet marketing/affiliate marketing alltogether because of a few bad apples. This means you are giving up on finding financial freedom and should quite this forum and go to work at McDonalds. Is this what you are going to do?

But Christians idea of creating a thread to out these vendors is a good idea. Cheating vendors need to be kicked out of affiliate networks.

Mike

[actionplanbiz]

Originally Posted by Christian Fox

I could do that

Hmmmm that has me thinking...

I'd probably get kicked out of Clickbank for that if I got caught?

I often do this if the page is already good so i can enter an exit pop of my own and build my list.

i dont know about clickbank products, but i have heard some top marketers have done it on click bank vendors.

[Christian Fox]

But Christians idea of creating a thread to out these vendors is a good idea. Cheating vendors need to be kicked out of affiliate networks.

I think I will do this, although it may deserve it's own little section. Maybe Allen would like to chime in?

I'd like to start the list with....DO NOT promote daytradingrobot.com