Do you worry about people stealing your products?

[nick1123]

I hear people talk about how to make their products more secure on the forum a lot. I see a lot of questions about hiding download links and keeping people from stealing what they have not paid for.

Personally, I really don't worry about this too much. I know itwill happen to some extent and I have decided to focus my time and energy and efforts on growing my business. I believe that this approach will make me a lot more money in the long run.

What is your approach? Are you vigilant in tracking down people who download your products without paying? Or do you let it go?

[SurviveUnemployment]

I don't worry about it in the least. Every download link is uniquely generated and encrypted, and the files are stored in a directory that is not publicly accessible. You can't get into that directory until I have your money, and then you can only get into it once to follow your unique link.

In other words, even if you guess the location of the file http://mysite/files/whatever.mp3 and put it in your browser, you won't get anything but a scary warning message about stealing.

Anybody keeping for-pay files in a publicly accessible directory really needs a new webmaster.

[bobcath]

SurviveUnemployment

What application or service do you use to achieve that, if you don't mind me asking!

Thanks
Bobby

[SurviveUnemployment]

We use a custom hack of Ubercart.

[Adam Michael]

You shouldn't waste your time worrying about it...

Obviously you should take as many precautions as possible to make sure it is not easily accessible, but BlueFartters will share it no matter what.

One thing you have to understand is the people downloading it are people that wouldn't have bought from you in the first place.

[Andyhenry]

I can understand why people do focus on this (it's a real problem), but I don't pay attention to it. With people dying and starving in the world, if I'm going to worry about something it needs to be bigger than product thief's.

Andy

[Frank Ayres]

Originally Posted by SurviveUnemployment

I don't worry about it in the least. Every download link is uniquely generated and encrypted, and the files are stored in a directory that is not publicly accessible. You can't get into that directory until I have your money, and then you can only get into it once to follow your unique link.

In other words, even if you guess the location of the file http://mysite/files/whatever.mp3 and put it in your browser, you won't get anything but a scary warning message about stealing.

Anybody keeping for-pay files in a publicly accessible directory really needs a new webmaster.

That doesnt stop the product being shared once it has been bought though

[SurviveUnemployment]

That doesnt stop the product being shared once it has been bought though...

Nope, but that doesn't really bother me. The music advertises itself -- if someone shares a couple of songs with their friend, that friend is likely to show up at the store at some point. I don't want them to be able to steal everything else once they're there.

With e-books, there's not much you can do but upsell so that maybe you can make a few bucks off the shared copies.

[Mo Goulet]

I use DL Guard and have been very happy with it's simplicity.

As far as worrying about theft, remember what you think about will become manifested in your life. The more you think about people stealing from you, the more it will happen. Picture everyone in the world scrambling to your website to get what you have to offer and do not worry about the few who will take advantage of the system. They are building their own karma.

[sbucciarel]

I just signed up with these people. You don't have to roll over and play dead. This looks very promising and hassle free.

Ebook Security - Protect Your Ebooks from Piracy

If you don't think it's a problem worth worrying about, then your business is probably built for the short term.

Quote from the sales page:

Just think about it. If you sell your ebook without ebook security for $29.95 US and every 3 months it is shared with just 100 people (which is a very conservative figure), that totals $2995.00 US in lost profit in just 3 short months. That’s $11,980.00 US a year! And that doesn’t even take into consideration the people who might actually be reselling your ebook and pocketing your profits.

[Alexa Smith]

As an affiliate, I avoid - mostly for other reasons, actually - niches in which it's likely to be a huge problem (like "IM-advice/education" and "MMO").

As a future e-book vendor, I'm concerned about it, yes.

[Rod Cortez]

I don't worry about it, but I do concern myself with basic security issues. For example, I try not to make it too easy for freebie seekers / file sharers / hackers to hack into my sites. I find my products on torrent sites all the time. But here's a fact: most peope WILL buy your products. It's a small % of people that won't pay for your products / will ask for a refund / or share it with everyone they know. There's very little you can do to stop it.

I do go after people, legally, if they use my stuff as their own, or if I think they are distributing any of my products in large volumes. Sometimes I am successful and sometimes I am not. The greatest way to combat this is to offer great products and service, treat your affiliates right, diversify into more than one niche, and offer a whole line of products / services.

Security should be a concern, but I see too many people obsses over it and this keeps them from growing their business and moving forward.

RoD

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by nick1123

What is your approach? Are you vigilant in tracking down people who download your products without paying? Or do you let it go?

I simply don't see the benefit in chasing down a thief. It isn't going to get me more customers, make me more money, or improve my business in any way.

[Emily Meeks]

One thing I plan to do is offer a chance for people to sell a product of mine for 100% commission, getting their customers on MY list. Where people are petty thieves, people are also lazy, so if I throw them that bone and walk away, everybody wins.

[Profit-smart]

A fun trick I learned guys,

#1-Tag EACH copy of your pdf with a tracking code, unless your selling MASSIVE volume this is easy. If you are, then have one of your workers do it for you. If you dont have any workers, hire someone.

tip:Using kunaki helps to, check out kunaki.com a simple php script can buffer all your orders through kunaki, and for around $1.99 a sale hardcopys can be sent out as well.

#2:Use plimus! This prevents chargebacks/the use of hacked paypals. Plus, you can accept payment for a large number of processors through a central location. The only downside, is plimus only sends out checks once a month. But if you refuse to use clickbank, this is a good alternative for you.

#3:I call this the "evil" viral marketing ploy. About a week before you run your prelaunch, hit 10-20 warez forums and 15-20 torrent trackers. Upload viral/teaser copys of your product, make sure to lead to an optin or upsell of your product in the report.

Upload these virals, under your products name-and closely matching the description on all the aforementioned sites. This HEAVILY dilutes the piracy, as people get confused when their trying to find a free copy of your work.

#4:Remain ever vigilant, disabling copy paste and printing of your PDF's works wonders. If you can, get an ISBN number. With this, your content is truly yours. If someone pirates it, and you have a retainer (IE:Lawyer) you really can sue the pirates. Youll win, in a cinch, and usually they get fined a few grand. Depending on how/why/where, this may or may not be worth the effort.

Just some stuff I learned over time, vending various info products over the last few years.

[patJ]

Like you said. It's probably gonna happen so i try not to think too much about it.

[Star69]

No, I don't worry much about it because all of my products are inter-dependent on the others, connected. Someone who steals one will need the others to make it really work, and I, of course, include links to the sites in each product so they can order the others...

Just having a part of it, you can make it work, but having all parts of it really makes a huge difference.

And my download pages do not have URLs with the word Download in them, but random numbers and letters. Good luck trying to figure out what my download page URLS are....

[shermancox]

Originally Posted by Profit-smart

A fun trick I learned guys,

#3:I call this the "evil" viral marketing ploy. About a week before you run your prelaunch, hit 10-20 warez forums and 15-20 torrent trackers. Upload viral/teaser copys of your product, make sure to lead to an optin or upsell of your product in the report.

Upload these virals, under your products name-and closely matching the description on all the aforementioned sites. This HEAVILY dilutes the piracy, as people get confused when their trying to find a free copy of your work.

That's an interesting idea...it seems like it would work.

[bryan1812]

Well, we sell a few scripts and products.

The only real way to protect your work is via proper licencing and encryption.

The problem we find then is that it requires the customer to have server side stuff like ioncube and Zend, which whilst common now my still trip you up.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I simply don't see the benefit in chasing down a thief.

Nope. I don't, either.

I see great benefits in preventing them, though!

[sbucciarel]

I just signed up with these people and I'm running a test to see how well it works. It prevents copying/sharing of a pdf or an exe file. It's $29/mnth and if it works as described, problem solved.

Ebook Security - Protect Your Ebooks from Piracy

Will let everyone know what the results are when my test person makes the purchase and then tries to copy or share the file.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

that totals $2995.00 US in lost profit in just 3 short months.

It's only lost if you might have gotten it. You will never convince me that all 100 people who would take your book for free were also willing to pay $30 for it.

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

It's only lost if you might have gotten it. You will never convince me that all 100 people who would take your book for free were also willing to pay $30 for it.

Sorry to hear your business is not worth protecting. I'm already aware of your pro-piracy stance from this thread

If Everyone Here Puts in $5.00 we can get the latest course and share it

My businesses make money and therefore could lose money from pirates, so they are well worth protecting.

[Patrick Mader]

i must say...i was i this position..and after three products i decided to invest. Got the latest version of butterflymarketingscript and boooom only registered user that paid for their membership can download.. downloadlinks are protected and can only be accessed after login...and only registered member that paid......

Cheers,

Patrick

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I just signed up with these people and I'm running a test to see how well it works. It prevents copying/sharing of a pdf or an exe file. It's $29/mnth and if it works as described, problem solved.

Ebook Security - Protect Your Ebooks from Piracy

Will let everyone know what the results are when my test person makes the purchase and then tries to copy or share the file.

Thanks very much in advance! I'm potentially interested in this service and would love to see updates of how you're getting on with it.

(Does it include a way of preventing people who buy an e-book from simply emailing it to people who are otherwise potential customers for it?).

[thunderbird]

Life's too short to worry about people stealing stuff. Basically, intellectual property rights are hard to protect in any industry. The more you promote your products/services, the more people know about it, and some will get the idea to do the same thing (others will literally try to steal it from your site). If you're overly protective secretive about it, it makes it harder to spread the word and promote what you're offering. That said, there are lots of products out there to help you protect your digital products from theft.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I'm already aware of your pro-piracy stance

Non-interactive media can't be protected from piracy. If your encrypted PDF isn't easily cracked, they'll just take pictures of the pages with a camera phone and OCR them.

It's not a stance. It's simple reality. You can't protect it. There's no way to do it. Don't waste your time on it.

[Intrepreneur]

Life definately is too short to be worrying over stolen downloads. Piracy is rife and that's that. What would be most hateful would be to have a free version of your product in the top 4 or 5 pages of any serp result.

I seen a woman's good worked destroyed by this, I bought her book from her because it interested me "Teach Your Dog a Hundred English Words" but the top of Google is flooded now with lots of illegal download sites.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Intrepreneur

Life definately is too short to be worrying over stolen downloads. Piracy is rife and that's that.

It's more important to design a piracy-proof business model. The correct place to put your effort isn't in preventing piracy, but in making the piracy irrelevant.

The key to that is understanding that since the 1980s, a growing number of new businesses have been service businesses... which proceed to labour under the misapprehension that they are manufacturing businesses. Just like a lot of Southern factories failed by trying to run a manufacturing business like a plantation, a lot of internet marketers are forgetting that a PDF is not really a product - it doesn't have a marginal cost of production, nor does it get stored in an inventory, nor does theft of the "product" reduce inventory or increase marginal cost.

A lot of the economic theory around this business gets bogged down in terminology that dates back to the 19th century. You're not really working in the material economics of production, but in the political economics of intellectual property. The place you should be looking for inspiration on your business model isn't factories and retail outlets, but arts and entertainment.

[Christophe Young]

Nope, I don't have to worry about ebook theft because I use ebook pro secure software. Download links are privately emailed after purchase and limited registration prevents sharing the book once purchased. It's not cheap but worth it!

Highly recommended!

[thunderbird]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

It's more important to design a piracy-proof business model. The correct place to put your effort isn't in preventing piracy, but in making the piracy irrelevant.
<snip>

I agree. Your comparison to arts and entertainment is also very interesting. It is about making making it more value-added to buy it, and possibly even finding ways to benefit from anyone pirating your products. For example, pirated videos (which we, at least here in Canada, essentially pay for with that penalty fee added to the price of DVDs) would actually help increase product placement exposure (and movies are full of product placement).

10 times more money is made from film industry spin-off products than from the actual theatrical distribution (and most industry folks get squat from where the real money is). In fact, movies are adverstisments for spin-off products, starting from computer games, to music, lunch boxes, you name it. One could have lots of links in the digital property so that some of it would go back to you even if it was stolen in the first place.

How would this apply to digital property?

Well, the promise of upcoming spin-off products and services for those who purchase your product (and creative ways to even benefit from stolen distribution of it) could serve to enticement to want to buy vs succumbing to the temptation to steal.

[CDarklock]

I kind of see two ways it could go, depending on how you want to spin it.

There's the fine artist model, where you create amazing stuff ONCE. Copywriters are doing this. What they do is highly specialised, and few people can do it. They charge an exorbitant amount for what they do, because the supply is necessarily restricted... but once they've sold something, it's gone, and they have no further ability to profit from it.

Then there's the rock star model, which a lot of your big names are using. They produce amazing stuff, just like a rock band produces CDs, but it's fundamentally designed to sell THEM - "in concert" - for outrageous speaking and presentation fees.

They're both scarcity models based on uniqueness. The piracy doesn't matter, because if you were to "pirate" a fine artist's work, he didn't have any investment in it anyway - he's already been paid for it. Meanwhile, if you "pirate" a rock star's work, it's just more advertisement for his personal appearances.

What it really comes down to is not being attached to outcomes. You release a product, you make money; the money you make is the money you make, you take it, you're happy. But the real money comes in on the long tail.

[thunderbird]

Very cool.

[zapseo]

cheap and effective download protection can be had by using the 7 Dollar Script. Which is, I believe, still $7.

Quite a bargain.

[Pete Grantaire]

I'm new to IM, but I have experience with writing for profit, so this sort of thing is pretty familiar to me.

I take a pretty laid back approach to piracy and file sharing. As I see it, most people who pirate your goods wouldn't have bought it. Most pirated copies are not lost sales at all. For whatever reason, most people who grab a copy of something for free off the internet weren't thinking of buying it otherwise. It sounds pretty bad when you put it that way, but that is only one side of the story.

Here's the other, much more positive angle. Piracy is free advertising. It really is. It gets your name out there, and it spreads awareness of your brand. There's a reason places give out free samples. I think piracy not only proves that there is demand for your product (good!) but creates more by spreading awareness (better!). Look at music, for example. One of my favorite bands, Grizzly Bear, saw their newest album leak MONTHS before it officially came out. It was pretty big news in the indie world when this happened. The disc went on to break the Billboard Top 100 when it finally came out. And this is a band that was not exactly a household name, either. How many new fans do you think they got just from their songs being bandied about The Pirate Bay?

When I see someone sharing or downloading any of my work, I'm okay with it. I don't know their situation or circumstances, and I know that at the end of the day, there are still people who will buy my stuff. Heck, there might be even more because of the person who uploaded it.

[Kyle Tully]

I protect my download links using software, but after that I don't worry about it.

There will always be people who steal/share your stuff and it's mostly a waste of time and energy worrying about them.

There are a few ways of overcoming the issue at a strategic level -- by combining live coaching calls, 1-on-1 time, "done for you" solutions etc as part of your product. That way people can steal the core product but they miss out on all the high-level stuff that makes it crank along at super speed.

But overall I'd rather put my energy into making 10 more sales than trying to prevent 1 guy from stealing something he a) probably won't even use, and b) probably couldn't have afforded anyway.

[MichaelHiles]

Embed yourself into your products.

They can't steal "you".

[love2Code]

You can also try Digital Product Delivery System that Fully Automates & Protects Sales and Downloads for Google and PayPal Transactions?

[rachaelgerk]

Good to know I shouldn't worry too much, because I have been!

[kimothy777]

Why would you? Products are good but marketing is King, right?

I have products that plenty of other people sell but I know how to market them well

[stoco]

While it's easy to over worry about the problem, taking some basic steps is usually a good idea. Link protection, member areas, software solutions are all good ideas to make sure you are at least making an effort to keep the honest people honest.

But, in my opinion, security is only part of the issue. It is a good idea to look at your entire process, from marketing, to sales, to delivery and ensure that:

- You are providing a compelling reason to buy
- Your products are easy to purchase - no glitches in the process
- Your customers have instant acces to the product (if digital)
- They can easily get help if needed

It is a good idea to have the right tools in place to make sure that all of this is happening, otherwise you wont have to worry about your product being stolen.

[SamKane]

I would not worry so much about a product thief...

You should worry about the idea thief who will buy your product, copy it, and if he's any good, he'll out-market you... Does are the guys to worry about.

[Mohammad Afaq]

I don't have any product but I don't think I would want this to happen to me. I mean these people are not paying me for the product I worked hard to create and they are just stealing.

You should have a secure site where your links should be encrypted so that no thief can get in. You should use a good site script to protect your products.

This is what I think.

[nick1123]

Thanks for all the advice everyone! This is why I keep coming back to the WF,