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| | #1 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: , , USA.
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So, I've got a little issue ![]() I was doing some coaching with someone that contacted me privately off of this forum. They asked me to do some private coaching with them and asked me how much it would cost. My reply was just pay me how much you want to make and I'll stick with you until you hit that number. So, he payed me $3,000 and we hit the number of $3,000 net profit 3 weeks later. So, that's it, right? I thought it was... Now, he says that 3K is too much to pay for 3 weeks of coaching. I told him that the deal wasn't for a certain amount of time that we agreed the coaching would last until he hit 3K, but he still feels like I should coach him for an unspecified amount of time for whatever reason... I thought about agreeing to do so for a couple more weeks, with a reduced workload on my part, but am really second guessing that because he was not willing to honor the original agreement that we had. In the end, I could coach him for a couple more weeks and he could again give the same argument... What say you, warriors? |
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| | #2 |
| HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mobile, AL , USA.
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A deal is a deal. You held up your end of the bargain. Not your fault if the person can't take advantage of what they learned from you.
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| | #3 |
| Sara is my name! War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2008
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I agree...a deal is a deal. PLUS, if you have already showed him how to make $3000 in 3 weeks...he should be able to take it from there and repeat it! I wouldn't do anything else unless he paid me more. People pay more than that for 1 weekend seminars sometimes.
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If you say "I can" or "I can't", either way you are right!
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| | #4 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA, USA.
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I agree with the the two guys that posted above. A deal is a deal. You held up your end of the bargain. He should be thanking you not trying to give you a guilt trip. $3K is not too much to pay for 3 weeks of coaching if you can take someone from zero to $3,000 in 3 weeks. The deal you gave him sounds like a good one and sounds more than fair to me. In fact I think agreeing to work with someone until they hit a certain dollar amount was very risky for you. You can coach the hell out of someone but they still have to do the work. You're lucky you didn't have to coach this fool for 6 months to hit $3K. You delivered on your promise. He should be kissing your ass so if he's not happy, that's his damn problem. |
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| | #5 |
| Suzanne War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Virginia, USA.
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I am constantly being asked for more than what I sell. It's common no matter what you do online. Deliver a service or product of any kind and there will be those who want more for nothing. A deal is a deal and I think you gave him an outstanding deal. |
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| | #6 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: , , USA.
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Jeremy, The only problem is that if you just say "A deal is a deal" even though you made him the $3,000 he's going to be offended/hurt/mad. He could run around and bad mouth you and harbor ill feelings for you and just send a whole lot of negative karma your way. I'm not saying this is justified at all. I'm saying, why have someone unsatisfied if there is an easy solution. You seem like you're willing to bend a little to appease him. I think you should just draw up a contract that says you agree to coach him for the next couple weeks, obviously specifying the exact time. Have him sign it. That way when your coaching is over, he really can't harbor ill feelings and he can't do this again, because you have the contract. If he does harbor ill feelings, than at least you can sleep at night and know you did everything you could to make it right. You can just chalk it up to some people can't be satisfied. If it goes the other way, if he's tickled pink that you actually cared enough to keep coaching him, you could have a real champion and supporter of you and your services. He'll run around and tell everyone how great you are. There's nothing like good word of mouth. That's my $0.01 because I need to save the other $0.01 for a rainy day. |
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| | #7 |
| Content & Copywriting Wiz War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Roselle, NJ, USA
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A deal is a deal. You fulfilled your end of the agreement. If word gets out that you caved, then people who you DID hold firm with are going to bitch about you giving others special treatment. For this reason I am very firm on all my offers. No exceptions no matter who you are or how much you beg. This way people know that when you say "X" you mean "X". So far, it's worked very well for me. |
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| | #8 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA, USA.
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Jason, Some people will have hard feelings as soon as you stop letting them take advantage of you. It's no reason to give in. Some people will never be satisfied and they will continue to walk all over you as long as you let them. Bitching and crying about getting a "bad deal" is just a pathetic way they try to get someone to keep doing what they want you to do. For every one person that might go around and bad mouth Jeremy for giving them the shaft, you'll find 100 others thanking him for the help they've received. |
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| | #9 |
| In Search of Eternity War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Earth is My Home - I love dearly
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He should pay you the $3K as not only did you keep your part of the bargain you gave him the fish and taught him how to fish.As a result you are given him value of $100k or more however you work it out. He could go to one of those seminars be out of pocket $5k and still not make a cent! or buy every wso and 2 years later still be stuck I guess he must feel like your making money easily so why take that much off him and you should discount him. However your time is money and even at $50 bucks an hour he would find that it was cheap to hire you. He is probable thinking in terms of a wso and now doesn't want to pay however he must remember he is not paying for a cheap wso but your time that he hired you for. So I guess in future have a written gentlemans handshake! |
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| | #10 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: High Desert Arizona hot hot hot
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It could be he's just scared of going cold turkey without you and figures the money he's made will evaporate if you're not around to coach him. So maybe answering 1 question a day by email for the next week would give him some confidence to stand on his own two feet. Phrase it as you're doing him an extra service above and beyond the original coaching deal. Dee |
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| | #11 |
| GarrieWilson.com War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Mount Vernon, IL
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If you bend, you will always be bending for them. Ive found out the hard way...
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| | #12 | |
| Sara is my name! War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2008
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I understand what you are saying. The only thing is that there are some people that are NEVER satisfied. The amount of people out there that want something for nothing far outweighs the people willing to abide by an agreement or pay for information. My husband made an agreement one time to do a job for someone. It was clear what he was going to do and how much he would be paid. He got to the job and the site wasn't ready and the guy wanted my husband to get it ready which was not in the agreement. It took 2 days to get it ready and he was freaking out saying this isn't gonna cost more is it. WHY NOT? 2 days loabor for NOTHING...I don't think so. Jeremy has built an excellent reputation and I don't think he needs to be fearful of this one guy. | |
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If you say "I can" or "I can't", either way you are right!
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| | #13 |
| HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Maryland, USA
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I agree with most of the opinions above that you should not give anyone special treatment and that a deal is a deal. However an idea I had was that if this guy wants additional coaching then you should charge him a weekly fee of something less substantial than $3000 until he is comfortable on his own but, definitely not for free.
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| | #14 | |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Wales, UK.
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Thanks for posting the tip. Regards, Jeff Henshaw. | |
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| | #15 | |
| Zen Redneck War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Erie, PA
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Jason, Quote:
It's not limited to small players, either. I had an encounter like this with a pair of clients with combined personal incomes well over the $100 million a year mark. I've found a simple question that works to eliminate virtually all of the issues: "In what way have I failed to do everything I agreed to, and have I not gone beyond that by [some extra measures]?" That works as well for the big players as the bit players. Believe it. If they can't answer that privately, they're insane to try and take their argument public. Garrie nailed it. If you don't draw the line, they'll be back to take advantage of you again, and you'll have set the precedent for others to do the same. Paul | |
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| | #16 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: , , USA.
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Thanks everyone. You guys pretty much confirmed what I was thinking, but I've never really dealt with a situation like this before so needed some reassurance if that makes sense ![]() I just fired off an email to him pretty much telling him that We agreed that I would coach him until he made 3K doing what I showed him how to do and I had fulfilled my end of the agreement. However, I did agree to do a 1 hour call with him in 2 weeks to address any problems that he has run into. Which I honestly feel is something that should have been ut into the original agreement. Thanks everyone! Jeremy |
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| | #17 |
| The Ethical Marketer War Room Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wisconsin, USA
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As a coach, which answer will truly help your client the most? 1. Giving in and keeping them dependent on others. 2. Learning that a person's word actually means something. Just a thought: Continue coaching for 200% of what he wants to make in the next three weeks. All the best, Michael |
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| | #18 |
| HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Southern California, USA
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Jeremy, if your coaching made him $3,000 in 3 weeks I figure it was underpriced. He should think about giving you a tip rather than complaining. Hold to your agreement and move on. -David |
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| | #19 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA, USA.
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| It was Jeremy that did the coaching but I agree with you. Zero to $3K in 3 weeks is pretty darn good. There are a lot of other people that would charge that much for one day of coaching to achieve those results.
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| | #20 |
| Drunken Greek War Room Member |
In any event Jeremy, don't give in to him - this completes the deal, "So, he payed me $3,000 and we hit the number of $3,000 net profit 3 weeks later", so you have no further obligation to him. If he wants additional coaching, then you're certainly entitled to your fee. Gotta love it when after the fact they fail to see the value in it that they saw in the beginning and demand more. This is why I prefer not doing business locally in Greece anymore - we've got an expression that translates something like, "When you take on a client, you're getting married to them!" And believe me...they keep coming back for years expecting a lifetime of free assistance! |
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| | #21 |
| Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2008
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3 k for 3 weeks is a good deal especially if you make it back. I dont understand what is wrong with people. First of all a deal is a deal, both parties should hold their end. Secondly, he or she just made their money back and learned a skill from someone who really knows their stuff and has proven it. I have no patience for people like that and you should be very stern with these people. Btw Jeremy, please check your pm on coaching site |
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| | #22 |
| Steve Peirce War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Rugby, UK
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This guy clearly just doesn't get it. Firstly, $3k for 3 weeks coaching is not expensive. Secondly, where else would you get a guarantee of a defined net profit before any money changes hands? Thirdly, if this guy had reneged on a deal like this with me, the very last thing I would be considering is to give him even more training for an indeterminate period of time. Lastly, if I was shown a way to make $3k net profit in 3 weeks, you'd better believe i would make sure I could carry on replicating that process again and again. A deal is a deal. Don't be taken for a ride by this guy. Regards, Steve. |
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| | #23 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA, USA.
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It's really hard to believe that someone was trying to get even more out of you after the deal you gave him. You agreed to coach him until he hit his goal. That could have been one day, one week, one month etc. Coaching with a guarantee of making $X is pretty awesome. You won't find a deal like that very often. You didn't just show him how to do something, you agreed to continue helping until he hit a certain target. Who else is going to offer something like that? |
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| | #24 |
| Advanced Warrior Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: U.S.A.
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Sounds like he should have set his goal a little higher, like $52,000. Then he would have had you for an entire year. Ask him if he'd like to revise his goal now that he has a little sample of what you can offer. |
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| | #25 |
| You need to become a War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A cave with 47 computers and an internet feed
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If you're worried about him bad-mouthing you or posting nasty stuff - think of how he'll possibly "hold this 'deal' over your head" until he's satisfied - which sounds like it might be never. Imagine 3 months from now, he could say "You'd better give me more coaching and get me to $10,000 per month or I'll tell everyone your coaching SUCKS!" You've honestly done exactly what you would do, and I applaud your kind-heartedness to want to go the extra mile - but people don't know the value of what you've given them if you give it to them for less or for free. |
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| | #26 |
| Deadbeat Cat to Support Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Spokane, WA
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If someone makes $3000 in three weeks as a direct result of your coaching, that person got an exceptional deal for $3000. You didn't just give him a fish, you taught him how to fish like a pro! What he learned can earn him a full-time living for life. He got a bargain.
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| | #27 |
| Active Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008
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If you taught him to fish he should be good to go... is he still making money from the training, and what you guys set up? What's he bellly aching about. Plus "A DEAL IS A DEAL" To add to that... I know personally... you ALWAYS over deliver BIG TIME. |
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| | #28 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: , , USA.
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I honestly just think that he is afraid that without someone looking over him that he's not going to make the money. He emailed me back and we have come to terms with a phone call in 2 weeks to address any problems that he has. So, even though there was a little "hiccup" there it still ended well. |
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| | #29 |
| Active Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008
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PS: I've paid 3k for 3 days over 3 times... and it was never one on one coaching. And I haven't been unhappy with it. What world is he from. I bet if he had not tried to BS you.. you would have taken a call or 2 over the next few weeks anyway. Right Jeremy?
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| | #30 | |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: , , .
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| Quote:
First off, you did deliver, so you need to do no more atm. However, may I suggest offering further coaching, and this time split the money at least 60/40 in your favor for as long as he wants? | |
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| | #31 | |
| List Building Freedom War Room Member | Quote:
Well that certainly isn't hard to turn into a powerful marketing message... "Showed Client How To Go From $0 to $3K... Now He's Mad As Hell" He Paid Me $3,000 And I Coached Him To A $3K per month Business... Now He's Mad About The Whole Thing Because It Only Took 3 Weeks To Get Him there. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - That's a marketers dream situation you can easily come out on the winning end. When he starts complaining to others whats he gonna say... "I asked him to coach me to a $3K business, he did that is only 3 weeks and now I'm mad as hell because this success happened too quickly..." As far as I'm concerned you should see if he wants to be coached to a $10K business... Because you've lived up to your end of the deal and proved it can be done. ![]() Mike Hill | |
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| | #32 | |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: , , USA.
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I'm glad to hear it. I figured there could be some kind of solution that everyone would be happy about. | |
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| | #33 | |
| AT gmail DOT com War Room Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Kent, WA
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| Quote:
First, he paid you $3,000 to coach him until he made $3,000 profit, right? He'll have to agree. And he's made $3,000 profit, right? He'll have to agree again. Now, does he feel that he hasn't learned enough from your coaching? He'll probably get fidgety and make excuses, but he wants more, so he'll say he hasn't learned enough. Now offer to write it all down for him, so he has it to study for as long as he wants and he'll never forget it. (This is probably his big fear.) If he wants more personalised coaching, ask him "well, how much more do you want to make?" | |
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| | #34 | |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Hubbard, Ohio, USA.
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Hi Jeremy, Interesting dilemma ... I would stick to the original agreement, especially since you honored your end of the deal by sticking with him until he made the 3K. He made his money back, plus got some education out of it that he can use for a very long time. He should be able to duplicate what you've taught him. Besides, he didn't stick to the agreement, and that should tell you something about him right off the bat that sends up a red flag. It's up to him to apply what he's learned. He has to be responsible for his side of the street just like you do (and you have). To be a good coach also includes teaching people how to be responsible for what they've learned or will learn - whether it comes by tough love, by you simply telling him, or if he picks that up on his own. ![]() Hope this helps ... Mary Edited to add - Sorry Jeremy, I didn't realize you resolved the issue before I finished this post. ![]() Quote:
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| | #35 |
| Vegas Whale. War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Wild blue yonder
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I think you did a good thing here with the 1 hour phone call. This way he can get get his feet wet and write all of his questions down to get them answered. Now he won't feel left out on his own. P.S. If you taught me how to make 3 grand in 3 weeks, I would kiss your feet. |
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| | #36 |
| Senior Warrior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: US of A
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I'd cut him/her loose. If they can keep going on their own then that's great. If they can't then they'll be back. It's that simple. Both sides fulfilled the agreement if what you stated is accurate.
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| | #37 |
| Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dirty Jersey, USA.
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You could tell him to give you the 3k back and you'll coach him for 3 more weeks if he is still unsure.
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| | #38 |
| Watching Carefully War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Contiguous US
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Well he paid you $3K and he made $3K net. That means he made more money but minus expenses and other what nots, he profited $3K. That sounds like a wash to me. His ROI was 100% in 3 weeks! So in essence he got your expert coaching for free-lol ![]() What's there to complain about?...you guys are even! |
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| | #39 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Gulf Coast, USA.
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You had a deal - the deal is completed. Did you put in writing? If not, why not? Gentleman's agreements only work if both are gentlemen. He can't argue or debate someone who doesn't respond to the argument. You can choose to say "we agreed to xxxx and it's now completed" - and refuse to discuss it further. That said - nothing wrong with over delivery if that's what you want to do. Perhaps one or two time limited consultations per week for XX weeks as a "favor" to him. AND put that in writing - and have him agree in writing. kay |
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| | #40 |
| HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Florida, USA
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Some people are unbelievable. This guy is now capable of making 1K a week and complaining about it!? It does seem that he was probably just nervous to be on his own and fully responsible for things. I love your solution, Jeremy. Even though my initial reaction was also "a deal's a deal", I would have felt bad about dropping someone cold turkey.
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| | #41 |
| HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Jul 2009
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A deal is a deal, unless you have ways of drivinging Internet traffic to make that $3000.00 that you're not telling him. Is he making money still?......and how much? But my question is, why coach him, he was out no out of pocket change and you could have made that $3000.00 on your own without him right.......or is there more to this story, like he has a power ranked website and you need him also? These are questions I'd ask you......I am not being mean, just trying to figure this out? |
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| | #42 | |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: , , USA.
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I made 3K for talking to someone for a total of under 3 hours probably and exchanging a couple of emails. Even though each call was scheduled for an hour, we were usually off the phone after about 25 minutes. Could I have made $3,000 without him? Yes, I can make 3K in about 10 different ways to Sunday in under 3 weeks. That's not me bragging, that is me just keeping as real as I can. Internet Money is like Monopoly money, there are millions of people in tens of thousands of niches or more just waiting to give you their money. There is no more to the story. He said he would pay me $3,000 to show him how to make $3,000 and I did. | |
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| | #43 |
| HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia.
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Good to hear you sorted him out. I can't stand people who don't stick to their word. You'd think being able to make $3000 would give him the confidence to go and do it on his own. Sean |
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| | #44 | |
| Dare To Be Different War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: U.K.
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Hi Jeremy, I would be careful about asking questions like this (in the way that you did) on a forum. Quote:
Hypothetically, imagine if you weren't that good, and you had bad intentions - this thread would be a really good way to get half of the forum PMing you and asking for you to coach them. In that scenario, this thread, with the figures and timescales thrown in, would be a great way to advertise your services for free. I'm not questioning your integrity, I'm explaining that a thread like this is too similar to the type that someone lacking integrity would make, and therefore causes questions to be asked. Hope this helps. | |
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| | #45 | |
| Marketing Mentor War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Maui and Massachusetts
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First, all of us, however expert we are, have blind spots. Even gurus can't be expected to have no questions at all! Someone can be really good at increasing profit but not so good at client relations, especially with respect to a situation that I would guess few of us have ever faced, either. Second, many times people ask questions not because they don't know the answer but because they know the answer but lack confidence in it. I'm glad Jeremy shared this question. I'm glad you shared your reply also. We all have the opportunity to learn something here. Marcia Yudkin | |
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| | #46 |
| Advanced Warrior Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne
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Jezz, Take a look in the mirror, mate. If you are comfortable with what you see, move on. If you truly believe you have been legal,ethical and moral in your dealings with him then it is case closed. |
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| | #47 | ||
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Location, Location.
Posts: 2,066
Thanks: 246
Thanked 446 Times in 266 Posts
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Quote:
Anybody who's grabbed Jeremy's stuff knows he knows how to make a buck and he's one of the very few on this forum who actually would be worth paying . | ||
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| | #48 |
| Life Student War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: rural NZ
Posts: 128
Thanks: 61
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
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I agreed with Dee on this that I think he saw you as having some kind of "magic touch" and that without your support his revenue would dry up - sounds like you got it sorted though and that is the main thing. Personally if I ever get a spare 3K I know who to spend it on ![]() Have a great day Lisa |
| Hire me to write your ebooks - Warriors get a discount: just check out the blog below for more details. Gran's tackling the world of IM - check out the blog here Understanding domestic violence, writing a book in just 8 hours and more can be found here | |
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| | #49 | |||
| Dare To Be Different War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: U.K.
Posts: 8,875
Thanks: 1,318
Thanked 2,807 Times in 1,041 Posts
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Hi Marcia/Simon, Quote:
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| | #50 |
| Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: England UK
Posts: 541
Thanks: 182
Thanked 216 Times in 79 Posts
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Hi Jeremy, you know what..... Let me put this sentence before you - You just took some guy in THREE weeks to make $3,000 Let me break it down ... Time frame: 3 weeks Cost: $3,000 Earnings: $3,000 Profit: $0.00 Oh no hang on ... Profit $0 ?? You just taught this person exactly how to make money online and by anyones standards to teach someone to make 3k in 3 weeks is phenomenal ! I think the risk was all on you and I think you're very brave to do such a thing knowing that many people just dont put in the work. Man if you were able to repeat such a thing regularly or even in a longer time frame then that is a flipping GREAT deal for anyone. Many guys are charging multiple thousands of dollars and people leave making no money but they have the knowledge and leave the coaching to continue building their business that will in time make money. And they are very happy with that What you have done for this person is very commendable and you should not only not feel any bad feeling, you should feel proud ! I think you undervalue what you have done, 3k in 3 weeks ... Worth a lot more than $3000 IMO ! What would I do in your position ?? Hmmm, of course you do not want this guy bad mouthing you however what will he say ? "oh man I just paid this 1 guy $3,000 and only got 3 weeks coaching... I made all my money back though in that time and know how to make more" lmao ! Joking aside though, I personally would put the ball back into his court. Ask him what more he expects as the original deal has been forfilled. Let him put his thoughts to you as to what he would like ( like not have ) .... Then respond according, keeping in mind that the original deal is complete so if the expectations of this person exceed your idea of reasonable then you propose something to him to benefit both of you. If it comes to it then simply refuse, inform this person that you have forfileld your side of the deal and he has made his 3k back. Then as a last resort send him to this post Nice one anyway, thats real cool you did that for him ! Dean |
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