When a costly project flops - which of these 5 x positive options would you take in my shoes?

12 replies
This isn't a negative thread by any means. However, it IS a thread to keep things in perspective for those that procrastinate and fear failure.

After all, I share the mantra of fail fast, succeed quicker (or your favourite variation of that principle...).

If you know the reality of "failure" and become desensitized to it, you'll be able to hit out more products and ideas with little procrastination.

This post is to make something very clear - even when you do everything by the book, you can still experience a dud...and only then can you decide where you want to go with it (do you throw more money into it, work harder to create different products, survey lists, etc etc...or do you sell the site and try something more "evergreen" as they say)

Why could it be a dud in the first place? Because some markets just plain SUCK (at least, on first throw of the dice)

A case in point, is a health niche I just flopped with.

Now, this niche had all the ingredients of success:

1. People were buying magazines related to their health problem
2. There were many active communities online (with lots of activity)
3. There were other books/info products selling online
4. People were opting in to my list
5. There was a lot of a backend potential
6. The target prospect was easily reachable, at a reasonable cost

I even ran some test sales copy and had huge responses - with people signing up to wait for the product to be released (aka the underachiever method).

Guess what? Nearly $1000 in product development, $500-1000 in advertising later...and only 8 sales to show for it.

Price was tested, email marketing campaign got great open rates and click thrus...but no more sales.

Sure, some of my keywords were broad, but the majority were targeted and all in all, this campaign was so highly targeted to convert is was crazy (right down to different adwords landing page copy per ad group, with different free reports and email follow up sequences sent to different ad group visitors...)

This was a seriously focused and full blown crack at marketing an inexpensive niche product...a product which contained information which was either:

1. Offered in top selling books on Amazon
2. Being searched for online and asked about in forums frequently
3. Being offered by competitors
4. Showing as "popular" content on directory sites

So, what have I learnt from this?

Well first of all, it's not the 1st project to go belly up...so I know not to let it "hurt me"!

Secondly, I know that I still have options...

I could:

1. Split test the sales copy drastically, to try and find a different selling angle (will require a further hefty advertising budget to test the waters though)

2. Sell the site and probably make a small loss on my investment

3. Turn the product into a whole plethora of blog posts using a word press blog, and generate revenue from the site via advertising

4. Build a list from free traffic (following on from the example above) and then continually survey that list to find out my potential upsell offers I could map out inro an autoresponder sequence

5. Continue all PPC campaigns except send the traffic to a survey page and ask the visitor to just TELL me what they will pay for...or go deeper and throw some questions at them which will let me get a better insight into their TRUE desires, which I may have missed.

So, which one do you think sounds like the most viable option if this was your business, roughly and speculatively speaking?

(P.S - I think I already know which one makes the most sense right now, but I'm entruiged to see what you think too...)
#advice #costly #flops #options #positive #produce #project #proven #shoes #show
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    If the product isn't selling then:

    1) People don't want it
    2) People don't trust you
    3) People "ain't got no money"

    These are basically the 3 things Frank Kerns talks about. Problems 1 and 2 are the most important, and seems like #1 was already researched by you. So I'd go with #2 and build up more credibility indicators. Tim Ferriss talks about how to do this in the 4-hour workweek. It would make sense to do this.

    Another idea:

    Use your product as a FREE giveaway in return for one of many things:

    1) Free for customer if they buy XYZ product (that you earn commission on)
    2) FREE for opt-in. If it is really good you'll have your site become a massive link-bait site and get huge traffic. THen sell other offers to the list

    3) FREE bonus for another product you create in the same niche.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1092552].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author n7 Studios
    Clearly you've identified it as something people want. The price may be right (as you've had a few sales).

    However, from what you've said:
    - People were buying magazines related to their health problem
    - There were many active communities online (with lots of activity)
    - There were other books/info products selling online
    - Offered in top selling books on Amazon
    - Being searched for online and asked about in forums frequently
    - Being offered by competitors
    - Showing as "popular" content on directory sites

    - why would people buy from you? It sounds as if your competitors are offering something similar, there's info on forums, it's in the top selling books on Amazon etc.

    Does your site make it simple to go through with the purchase?
    What feedback did you get on the site / materials?
    What sort of stats do you have to date - visitors, traffic sources etc?

    If you're able to answer those questions yourself confidently and you're happy with the answers, then I think it's still worth pursuing. If any those questions trip you up, then perhaps it's time to step back and review the project or focus on one of the specific areas that's preventing the project from being a success.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1092585].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
    Hi Nick,

    The feedback from your 8 buyers could be gold in the follow up.
    Allow me to submit to you for your consideration sending a quick follow up
    customer satisfaction feedback form asking questions about what they
    liked and disliked, how likely they'd be to refer it to a friend or colleague,
    what areas they'd love to see improved, what they would love to see
    included in an upgraded, future version and how interested on a scale
    of 1 to 10 they'd be in purchasing the new upgraded version if it
    contained everything they've indicated they'd like in a follow up product.

    You can also offer them a %$discount off the purchase of the new
    product as your way of saying "thank you" for giving you permission
    to publish certain portions of their feedback in the form of a testimonial
    in your marketing materials.

    That's leveraging those existing assets to build momentum
    with your next release and injects a ton of the social proof
    which looks like may just be what you were needing
    for that credibility boost others in this thread have mentioned.

    You'll now be in a better position to test the "new and improved" offer
    with the social proof and hopefully recoup some of the previous investment
    or at least offset some of the expenses when testing it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1092621].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      All replies below are great suggestions. Some of which I'm thinking about doing, and some I will definitely do.

      Doug's suggestion about following up with my few buyers is a great idea for expansion and further credibility building...

      ...and along with another comment, I think there's still major holes in my campaign:

      1. I can't really speak from authority, (the product was outsourced so there's no real "face" to the product). Therefore, I need to rely on the product's performance with people (so if I can't sell it, I'll need to give it away as a way to get testimonials/feedback/proof).

      2. I've gone "too wide" with the guide...trying to encapsulate every issue/problem and area of interest with this health field. So that leaves yet another option - break it down and expand each section into seperate products...

      ...sheesh, I can see a lot more hard work on its' way!

      I hope these thought processes are going to help others in a similiar situation too...;-)

      Originally Posted by n7 Studios View Post

      Clearly you've identified it as something people want. The price may be right (as you've had a few sales).

      However, from what you've said:
      - People were buying magazines related to their health problem
      - There were many active communities online (with lots of activity)
      - There were other books/info products selling online
      - Offered in top selling books on Amazon
      - Being searched for online and asked about in forums frequently
      - Being offered by competitors
      - Showing as "popular" content on directory sites

      - why would people buy from you? It sounds as if your competitors are offering something similar, there's info on forums, it's in the top selling books on Amazon etc.

      Does your site make it simple to go through with the purchase?
      What feedback did you get on the site / materials?
      What sort of stats do you have to date - visitors, traffic sources etc?

      If you're able to answer those questions yourself confidently and you're happy with the answers, then I think it's still worth pursuing. If any those questions trip you up, then perhaps it's time to step back and review the project or focus on one of the specific areas that's preventing the project from being a success.
      Originally Posted by Chris Thompson View Post

      If the product isn't selling then:

      1) People don't want it
      2) People don't trust you
      3) People "ain't got no money"

      These are basically the 3 things Frank Kerns talks about. Problems 1 and 2 are the most important, and seems like #1 was already researched by you. So I'd go with #2 and build up more credibility indicators. Tim Ferriss talks about how to do this in the 4-hour workweek. It would make sense to do this.

      Another idea:

      Use your product as a FREE giveaway in return for one of many things:

      1) Free for customer if they buy XYZ product (that you earn commission on)
      2) FREE for opt-in. If it is really good you'll have your site become a massive link-bait site and get huge traffic. THen sell other offers to the list

      3) FREE bonus for another product you create in the same niche.
      Originally Posted by DougBarger View Post

      Hi Nick,

      The feedback from your 8 buyers could be gold in the follow up.
      Allow me to submit to you for your consideration sending a quick follow up
      customer satisfaction feedback form asking questions about what they
      liked and disliked, how likely they'd be to refer it to a friend or colleague,
      what areas they'd love to see improved, what they would love to see
      included in an upgraded, future version and how interested on a scale
      of 1 to 10 they'd be in purchasing the new upgraded version if it
      contained everything they've indicated they'd like in a follow up product.

      You can also offer them a % off the purchase of the new
      product as your way of saying "thank you" for giving you permission
      to publish certain portions of their feedback in the form of a testimonial
      in your marketing materials.

      That's leveraging those existing assets to build momentum
      with your next release and injects a ton of the social proof
      which looks like may just be what you were needing
      for that credibility boost others in this thread have mentioned.

      You'll now be in a better position to test the "new and improved" offer
      with the social proof and hopefully recoup some of the previous investment
      or at least offset some of the expenses when testing it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1092776].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1093010].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      I reordered your list somewhat into what I would do:

      1. Split test the sales copy drastically, to try and find a different selling angle (will require a further hefty advertising budget to test the waters though)

      5. Continue all PPC campaigns

      4. Build a list from free traffic (following on from the example above) and then continually survey that list to find out my potential upsell offers I could map out inro an autoresponder sequence

      3. Turn the product into a whole plethora of blog posts using a word press blog, and generate revenue from the site via advertising

      2. Sell the site and probably make a small loss on my investment
      That's interesting - and totally logical. I might not even need a full rewrite of the copy, as some elements could instantly be improved with some extra TLC (more visually speaking rather than the copy itself).

      Or am I just prolonging the inevitable full rewrite/second letter?

      Options options...so tempted to crank out a survey to help with my sales copy rewrite...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1093414].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pojax
    Can we see the site? whats the url..
    maybe we can find the issue..
    give you advise!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1093736].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by pojax View Post

      Can we see the site? whats the url..
      maybe we can find the issue..
      give you advise!
      Sorry - I never reveal my niches. Not because I think that there's a threat, but it always hikes up the PPC costs for longer than I care to mention, and usually ends up with a few forum invasions which ruin my cred and hard work as I'm taken down with burning balls of marketing plagiarism fire as we all plummet to the ground...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1093827].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
        Originally Posted by madison_avenue View Post


        I find that online books have to sold much harder than print books because of the inherent lack of credibility of ebooks compared to print books. You need to have some unique selling point which will trump the competition this can be one or more of the following: Very highly targeted material, audio visual material, very powerful sales letter, very competitive price point, highly personalized sales letter, clear differentiation from competitor products, website which has content which marks you out as go to authority in the field.


        madison
        This is indeed an excellent point and one which eludes me as a copywriter turning aspiring info product creator/owner...(no problem selling other people's stuff, because I wrench this stuff out of them because I know it's in them...)

        Incidentally, you'd be amazed at how many "gooorooo lists" pitch the idea of "simply seeing what's on Amazon and then replicating it..."

        (In fact, there was one membership launch recently that tried this hook, say no names...not my scene).

        Either way, you're right - don't bother approaching a market with info that others are paying for - because unless you've got some info that is killer which is really spun at a different angle or better still, totally ORIGINAL, PLUS the creds to back up your offer...you better go home Johnny...

        Maybe that's a little skeptical of me. I know in reality that as long as I build a relationship and test more often than I already do, the money is practically there - I just need to be more creative than the Amazon Best Seller guys...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1093855].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
    "This was a seriously focused and full blown crack at marketing an inexpensive niche product...a product which contained information which was either:

    1. Offered in top selling books on Amazon

    If the information was already being offered on amazon and this information could be readily available and sourced by your potential buyer, why would they buy the information from you rather than amazon? An amazon print book would have more credibility than an ebook. What added value, uniqueness, spin, specificity was in your offer which was not in the amazon books?


    2. Being searched for online and asked about in forums frequently:

    Yes the information was in demand, but could be easily accessed from a more credible source and in an attractive format and at a price superior to your offer. How could you make yours superior?

    3. Being offered by competitors"

    Did you have better offer or did they?




    It could be that your product did not have a "personality", maybe it was to dry and impersonal?


    I find that online books have to sold much harder than print books because of the inherent lack of credibility of ebooks compared to print books. You need to have some unique selling point which will trump the competition this can be one or more of the following: Very highly targeted material, audio visual material, very powerful sales letter, very competitive price point, highly personalized sales letter, clear differentiation from competitor products, website which has content which marks you out as go to authority in the field.

    Of course you may have done a lot of these things but these are just some suggestions from me. Good luck with whatever you decide to do with the product.

    all the best

    madison
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1093825].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Voasi
    Building upon what Madison_Avenue said about credibility and online/offline books, you're unique selling point needs to be well-defined, but that should be with every product launch.

    More-over, you talked about you talked about your product being very broad on the subject. I talked with another brilliant marketer who does $1mill+ launches every other month and we talked about "Niching the niche". It sounds like you need to break the product down into junks that you WILL have a unique selling point. It will make it very easy to sell it to the market, because they'll be able to relate with your niche topic.
    Signature
    Want $6,000/mo. SEO Clients? Watch My Free Video!
    We do WSO Designs TOO!!! Best on WF! - Click Here
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1093888].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Was it possible to cheaply test another similar product before springing for that investment??

    TL
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1093977].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by Voasi View Post

      Building upon what Madison_Avenue said about credibility and online/offline books, you're unique selling point needs to be well-defined, but that should be with every product launch.
      It actually did have a strong USP - I'm just thinking that the USP itself wasn't a good enough match for the market.


      More-over, you talked about you talked about your product being very broad on the subject. I talked with another brilliant marketer who does $1mill+ launches every other month and we talked about "Niching the niche". It sounds like you need to break the product down into junks that you WILL have a unique selling point. It will make it very easy to sell it to the market, because they'll be able to relate with your niche topic.
      I think this might be the core gremlin at play here - nit being niche enough, even in a micro niche health topic (that most people have never heard about but is a common problem, kinda...)


      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Was it possible to cheaply test another similar product before springing for that investment??

      TL
      Indeed, I usually test by running content sites, adsense and aff products - but on this occassion I decided to go with the "create a sales letter first and track how many people click the order button and sign up for more info on the release date" underachiever type method.

      Seems that approach might have left me scraping egg off my face on this occassion...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1094039].message }}

Trending Topics