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clickbank opt-in forms??

by blackhawkup Banned
42 replies
ok so lets say i want to promote a clickbank product ..the sales page is nice, the product is nice, the payout is nice....but they have an email opt in form on the front page...

HOWS DOES THAT WORK??

does that mean all of my leads i send to that page will not count for me unless they buy today?

or if they join this persons mailing list will i still get commission if he makes a sale through his own email marketing...

so to boil this question down.

should i avoid clickbank products that have email subscriptions on their sales copy?
#clickbank #forms #optin
  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    Unless the product vendor uses his own hoplink in his emails (which is rarely done in my experience), you will get credit as long as your cookie is still good and the product(s) are from the same CB vendors account. Of course, you are out of luck if/when they promote other peoples products to their list.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnlagoudakis
    Going along with Jason's post above, it would be a good idea to subscribe to their email list and see how they are marketing to their list. That way you can know if they are promoting other products and/or using their own hoplink.
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  • Profile picture of the author morry
    Yep, Jason is right. I've been seeing threads like this pop up all over the place lately. Is there a big guru warning people against clickbank vendors with opt in lists? Sounds pretty crazy to me as you'll make more sales with an honest opt in system (and most are in my experience).

    I remember one thread by a guy who got screwed by a vendor, but it was for a stock trading bot, so it's probably not a surprise that someone who'd sell that would also rip off his affiliates.

    If you're promoting guys who have been around for a while and will be around for a while, then you should be right. But definitely check it out as I'm sure there are a minority of vendors who will rip you off.

    Sean
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    • Profile picture of the author blackhawkup
      Banned
      Originally Posted by morry View Post

      Yep, Jason is right. I've been seeing threads like this pop up all over the place lately. Is there a big guru warning people against clickbank vendors with opt in lists? Sounds pretty crazy to me as you'll make more sales with an honest opt in system (and most are in my experience).

      I remember one thread by a guy who got screwed by a vendor, but it was for a stock trading bot, so it's probably not a surprise that someone who'd sell that would also rip off his affiliates.

      If you're promoting guys who have been around for a while and will be around for a while, then you should be right. But definitely check it out as I'm sure there are a minority of vendors who will rip you off.

      Sean


      i don t know if there is a guru or not, but i was doing some searching on clickbank for new products and 8 out of 10 had email opt in forms ...and of course my common sense kicked in and i figured that for a long term business(which is what im stirving to build) would not greatly benefit from increasing someone else's list!

      so i have come to the conclusion that i will not even promote products with emails on the sale copy..(big thanks to Alexa_s...theres something about the way she put it that really made it sink in )..

      thanks guys and gals.
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  • Profile picture of the author iBBnet
    Did you know that sometimes you can bypass those opt-in forms and send your referrals directly to the sales page? You'll still get credit for it. I do that all the time with Clickbank promotions.
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  • Profile picture of the author longdrv4u
    I skip the clickbank products with opt in pages but if you want to use one sign up and every time they send you an email go to the check out page and see if your affiliate name is at the bottom.
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    • Profile picture of the author mikeyman120
      Originally Posted by rpjackson View Post

      ok so lets say i want to promote a clickbank product ..the sales page is nice, the product is nice, the payout is nice....but they have an email opt in form on the front page...

      HOWS DOES THAT WORK??
      That's good news for you if they have an opt in form. Remember this - people need to see your message 7-9 times or more before they are ready to buy.

      If the vendor doesn't have an opt in form then how are they going to reminded people of the site so they can come back and order when they are ready?

      As long as the vendor is honest and not trying to overwrite your cookie then you only want to promote sites with opt in forms. That's what I say!


      Originally Posted by rpjackson View Post

      does that mean all of my leads i send to that page will not count for me unless they buy today?
      No. With clickbank if they order within 60 days of clicking your link(assuming they don't click another affiliates link) you will get the commission.


      Originally Posted by rpjackson View Post

      should i avoid clickbank products that have email subscriptions on their sales copy?
      NO! Opt in forms are great tools to help close sales for the affiliate. Look at it this way. Since most people will not order on their first visit to a website how are you going to get them back to the site so they can order when they are ready to. There are 2 ways. The vendor has an opt in form and emails them to remind them or you create your own opt in form and drive all your traffic to your opt in form and then redirect them to the clickbank site. Then you can send out emails with your affiliate link yourself. Chances are pretty good that if someone signs up for your list then they redirect to the vendors website that they are not going to subscribe again. So you can be in control of YOUR customers and market to them forever or until they unsubscribe from your list.

      Bottom line - someone has to have the opt in form, either you or the vendor or both.

      Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author blackhawkup
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        Originally Posted by mikeyman120 View Post

        That's good news for you if they have an opt in form. Remember this - people need to see your message 7-9 times or more before they are ready to buy.

        If the vendor doesn't have an opt in form then how are they going to reminded people of the site so they can come back and order when they are ready?

        As long as the vendor is honest and not trying to overwrite your cookie then you only want to promote sites with opt in forms. That's what I say!




        No. With clickbank if they order within 60 days of clicking your link(assuming they don't click another affiliates link) you will get the commission.




        NO! Opt in forms are great tools to help close sales for the affiliate. Look at it this way. Since most people will not order on their first visit to a website how are you going to get them back to the site so they can order when they are ready to. There are 2 ways. The vendor has an opt in form and emails them to remind them or you create your own opt in form and drive all your traffic to your opt in form and then redirect them to the clickbank site. Then you can send out emails with your affiliate link yourself. Chances are pretty good that if someone signs up for your list then they redirect to the vendors website that they are not going to subscribe again. So you can be in control of YOUR customers and market to them forever or until they unsubscribe from your list.

        Bottom line - someone has to have the opt in form, either you or the vendor or both.

        Mike
        but isnt that why it would make more sense to have an opt in on your own pre sell that way you dont have to chance dealing with a vendor with integrity or not. i would rather email them myself 7-9 times then to send a good lead to someone else hoping that they give me credit for the sale.....

        i mean after all this is business at the end of the day!
        i dont think walmart would expect kmart to send them commission if someone saw a wal mart comercial but bought the product from kmart instead!!

        at the end of the day its business i need to make sure i protect my business by taking smart steps and building a moat. putting my business in the hands of others just isnt sound judgement!!
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        • Profile picture of the author mikeyman120
          Originally Posted by rpjackson View Post

          but isnt that why it would make more sense to have an opt in on your own pre sell that way you dont have to chance dealing with a vendor with integrity or not. i would rather email them myself 7-9 times then to send a good lead to someone else hoping that they give me credit for the sale.....
          Right. Building your list is the best option. I meant when you are direct linking to a site its better for you if that site has an opt in to help you close the sale.

          Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
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            Of course, you are out of luck if/when they promote other peoples products to their list.
            You are also out of luck when they promote other people's stuff without using a list.
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  • Profile picture of the author LegionNate
    I started a thread about this recently, and on the particular product I wanted to promote I cannot get my Clickbank name to show up when I go through an email he sends, no matter what! No problem with my link in general, or when I click on the 'buy now' button... but when I go through any of the 6 emails I've receive now: Affiliate=none, every single time. So I'm not gonna chance it.
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  • Profile picture of the author iBBnet
    I agree with rpjackson.

    That's why when promoting Clickbank products with an optin form before the sales page, I actually BYPASS (and still pass my affiliate cookie so I get credit) the optin form and redirect straight to the sales page.

    Another option is to setup your own optin page. Then, once the customer fills it out, direct them to the actual Clickbank sales page. That way, you're the one who will market to them. Why build somebody else's list when you can build your own and keep them YOUR customers?
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    • Profile picture of the author blackhawkup
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      Originally Posted by iBBnet View Post

      I agree with rpjackson.

      That's why when promoting Clickbank products with an optin form before the sales page, I actually BYPASS (and still pass my affiliate cookie so I get credit) the optin form and redirect straight to the sales page.

      Another option is to setup your own optin page. Then, once the customer fills it out, direct them to the actual Clickbank sales page. That way, you're the one who will market to them. Why build somebody else's list when you can build your own and keep them YOUR customers?

      exactly thats the point im trying to make as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author eidoan
    Usually it's fine. It most cases it's good. If they have an autoresponder series set up to keep the lead coming back to their site and the person ends up buying while the clickbank cookie is still valid, you hopefully get a few sales from people who didn't buy right away.
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  • Profile picture of the author markshields
    yeah I have never found that the opt in forms on those clickbank products promote for the individual, I think with the clickbank products you only have one shot and thats when you send the initial prospect
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    A few comments that I'll repeat from another similar thread:

    1) The opt-in form gets the vendor a lead. The vendor follows up with the lead through autoresponder messages, and it tends to improve the conversion rate.

    2) YOU, the affiliate, get paid for sales up to 60 days later unless the vendor does something dishonest, which is rare. Or if another affiliate refers the same lead to the vendor's website after you (also rare).

    3) You should always sign up to the opt-in yourself. Always. Always.

    4) You'll have a good "gut feel" for the honesty of the vendor by reading his autoresponders. Real value offered? Hype emails? There is a difference. Honest vendors offer real value in the autoresponders, and will never screw over their affiliates.

    In short - Opt In lists HELP conversion, and so they HELP you. My $0.02
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
    I replied in another thread so I won't say it all again here, but I will add one small thing. I have opted into many lists and I have never seen a vendor use anything other than a naked link to their sales page. So that tells me it's rare. I haven't done a probability model on this to calculate the confidence interval (and I forget how!), but I think it could easily be proven that it is rare. The test would be easy. Subscribe to 200 lists. Wait a month, examine all links. Draw conclusion.

    So you're right ... I don't know exactly how rare it is, but I'm confident based on my experience that it is 5% or less of all vendors who do shady crap. But I can't prove it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
        Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

        I'm simply stating factually and unarguably that it's a problem you can choose to avoid (as many Warriors do) by not becoming an affiliate if there's a sales page opt-in.
        Trust you to bring logic and reasoning into it at this early stage of a debate

        Jay
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        • Profile picture of the author DeePower
          I contacted clickbank and asked point blank if there was any problem with a vendor using their own affiliate link to sell their own product. And the answer was they could.

          If the vendor is using aweber and is monitoring the clickthroughs then the url is not obvious. This means you would have to click through on each link in any email the vendor sends to his list.

          Out of the 50 CB top products I've evaluated so far 50% have an opt in form. Several have the form as a means of registration before you can get to the clickbank order form. A number of them have more than one opt in form.

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          • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
            Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

            Since you ask, Sean, yes: I've just been kindly told by p.m. that Harvey Segal (whom I think you'd accept as a guru on this subject if anyone is?), in one of his e-books about Clickbank, suggests that becoming an affiliate for products with a sales page opt-in might be considered less than an optimal strategy. I didn't know this at the start of these conversations. I haven't read it myself - this is only second-hand information. Excuse me, please, Harvey, if I've inadvertently misquoted you here: am just answering Sean's question to the best of my limited ability.
            No - I've not said that as such.

            I said that one of the many ways a ClickBank affiliate can lose
            out on commission is when -

            "There are offers to join a mailing list or claim a free
            report: you should get credited for any sale ensuing from
            these leads but an unscrupulous vendor may follow up and
            make the sale via his own link. Similarly the vendor may use
            a pop-up upon exiting a site to convert a leaving visitor
            into a sale for which you do not get the credit."

            That is not to say that an effective follow up
            from an honest vendor is not a good strategy.

            Harvey
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          • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
            Originally Posted by rpjackson View Post

            i don t know if there is a guru or not, but i was doing some searching on clickbank for new products and 8 out of 10 had email opt in forms ...and of course my common sense kicked in and i figured that for a long term business(which is what im stirving to build) would not greatly benefit from increasing someone else's list!

            so i have come to the conclusion that i will not even promote products with emails on the sale copy..(big thanks to Alexa_s...theres something about the way she put it that really made it sink in )..

            thanks guys and gals.
            As a list builder / email marketer who promotes affiliate products, I can tell you that multiple exposures to a product increases sales significantly. I promote the same few products within 30 consecutive emails in my autoresponder, and most of my sales are not from the fist email.

            follow-up increases sales. period.

            And I woudnt' be to worried about "building someone else's list".. I don't see guys like frank kern, mike filsaime, etc take issue with it, so I don't

            Originally Posted by LegionNate View Post

            I started a thread about this recently, and on the particular product I wanted to promote I cannot get my Clickbank name to show up when I go through an email he sends, no matter what! No problem with my link in general, or when I click on the 'buy now' button... but when I go through any of the 6 emails I've receive now: Affiliate=none, every single time. So I'm not gonna chance it.
            This is why you check - like you did.
            In your case, it does not make since. A vendor can't delete a cookie that's been placed - they can only replace it with thier own affiliate id. In your case, it looks like they are promoting a different product via a different CB account (or else you deleted your cookies).

            Originally Posted by rpjackson View Post

            but isnt that why it would make more sense to have an opt in on your own pre sell that way you dont have to chance dealing with a vendor with integrity or not. i would rather email them myself 7-9 times then to send a good lead to someone else hoping that they give me credit for the sale.....

            i mean after all this is business at the end of the day!
            i dont think walmart would expect kmart to send them commission if someone saw a wal mart comercial but bought the product from kmart instead!!

            at the end of the day its business i need to make sure i protect my business by taking smart steps and building a moat. putting my business in the hands of others just isnt sound judgement!!
            Yeah, but with affiliate marketing we are always relying on others in one way or another. The only solution that I feel comfortable with is to sell your own products, and only work with others whom you feel are trustworthy.

            Originally Posted by iBBnet View Post

            I agree with rpjackson.

            That's why when promoting Clickbank products with an optin form before the sales page, I actually BYPASS (and still pass my affiliate cookie so I get credit) the optin form and redirect straight to the sales page.

            Another option is to setup your own optin page. Then, once the customer fills it out, direct them to the actual Clickbank sales page. That way, you're the one who will market to them. Why build somebody else's list when you can build your own and keep them YOUR customers?
            this isn't usually possible, as the cb hoplink needs to land on a 'pitch page' which is almost always the sales letter, and the opt-in is incorporated within it. The only way I can see around these is to pre-sell AND sell, bypass the sales page with the opt-in form and just link to the checkout page.

            Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

            You are also out of luck when they promote other people's stuff without using a list.
            My point Which is why I don't worry too much about it.

            Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

            "Hopefully" being the operative word.

            If, instead, you confine your affiliate promotions to products without an opt-in on the sales page, you get "security" instead of "hope". My bank manager and my accountant understand the difference.
            Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

            How do you know?!

            The reality is that you have no way of knowing how rare either is, Chris, and neither do I.

            What I know with certainty (like many Warriors posting in many threads on this subject) is that if I'm an affiliate for products without a vendor's opt-in, I don't have to worry about it.
            Here's the thing alexa - you may be making half as much as you could from your same efforts, all because of a fear that the vendor will send out his/her own affiliate link in thier follow-ups. This is easily tested simply by opt-ing in.

            Here's my own some-what related experience:

            I built a squeeze page for a niche, and used ppc to drive traffic to it. I had no follow-up sequence in place - I simply put an affiliate link as the 'thank you page' in weber. So folks would opt-in to my list, then be forwarded to a sales page. I had several hundred people opt-in, and zero sales. I then finaly added some emails to my autoresponder (with the same affiliate link to that exact same sales page), and I immediately started to make sales.

            So I am a firm believer that a follow-up system can make a huge difference in sales.
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            • Profile picture of the author blackhawkup
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              Originally Posted by jasonl70 View Post

              As a list builder / email marketer who promotes affiliate products, I can tell you that multiple exposures to a product increases sales significantly. I promote the same few products within 30 consecutive emails in my autoresponder, and most of my sales are not from the fist email.

              follow-up increases sales. period.

              And I woudnt' be to worried about "building someone else's list".. I don't see guys like frank kern, mike filsaime, etc take issue with it, so I don't



              This is why you check - like you did.
              In your case, it does not make since. A vendor can't delete a cookie that's been placed - they can only replace it with thier own affiliate id. In your case, it looks like they are promoting a different product via a different CB account (or else you deleted your cookies).



              Yeah, but with affiliate marketing we are always relying on others in one way or another. The only solution that I feel comfortable with is to sell your own products, and only work with others whom you feel are trustworthy.



              this isn't usually possible, as the cb hoplink needs to land on a 'pitch page' which is almost always the sales letter, and the opt-in is incorporated within it. The only way I can see around these is to pre-sell AND sell, bypass the sales page with the opt-in form and just link to the checkout page.



              My point Which is why I don't worry too much about it.





              Here's the thing alexa - you may be making half as much as you could from your same efforts, all because of a fear that the vendor will send out his/her own affiliate link in thier follow-ups. This is easily tested simply by opt-ing in.

              Here's my own some-what related experience:

              I built a squeeze page for a niche, and used ppc to drive traffic to it. I had no follow-up sequence in place - I simply put an affiliate link as the 'thank you page' in weber. So folks would opt-in to my list, then be forwarded to a sales page. I had several hundred people opt-in, and zero sales. I then finaly added some emails to my autoresponder (with the same affiliate link to that exact same sales page), and I immediately started to make sales.

              So I am a firm believer that a follow-up system can make a huge difference in sales.

              ok i see the logic in this and your case study is cool ...but the thing i noticed is that you are talking about your own auto responder..heck yeah i believe multiple contacts would eventually lead to a sale. but it just seems to me that it just to unsafe to send somebody my leads and then believe that they would be honest.
              i know this is like well F%^& it dont sell products with opt ins--who cares. but the point of this thread was to get some info out in the open for all to see.

              so anyway my reasoning behind this is this. i come from the world of stock investing in which i currently make a comfortable living from value investing. If you are familiar with value investing you would know about warren buffet and his strategies..

              and one thing he says that i apply to all of my business ventures (online and off) is making sure that you have a moat of protection around my business.

              and sending my leads to someone else's opt in form just seems like sleeping with the enemy.

              now on the other hand i think its a numbers game and as a value investor i hate numbers game...its probably a %50 chance the vendor would be honest and a %50 chance the vendor would be dishonest..(those numbers arent factual i was just making a point). so i agree when you said the best way is to just sell your own products..reason being is because i know these sites also do comm. shaving haha you cant win lol
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  • Profile picture of the author FriendlyRob
    I don't know if it is a coincidence, but I have found that the "%referred" rating on clickbank, is almost always lower if there is an opt-in box on the sales page. So as an affiliate, I tend to ignore those pages.

    However, as a vender, I still find them very effective, so I will continue to use them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Thompson
      Originally Posted by rob123 View Post

      I don't know if it is a coincidence, but I have found that the "%referred" rating on clickbank, is almost always lower if there is an opt-in box on the sales page. So as an affiliate, I tend to ignore those pages.

      However, as a vender, I still find them very effective, so I will continue to use them.
      Rob - this makes no sense. As a vendor you KNOW opt-ins are effective. And unless you don't trust the vendor you choose to be an affiliate for, why would you conclude the *exact opposite* when acting as an affiliate? It's not logical to me. Just curious as to your thinking here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Jennings
    Avoiding sales pages that have opt-ins is SO short-sighted if tests have proven that more sales are converted with a follow-up sequence in place.

    If you "don't like" those pages, fine, but don't kid yourself that you're making more money because of that if you haven't even *tested* the theory.

    Jay Jennings
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      • Profile picture of the author Jay Jennings
        Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

        With respect, Jay, you appear slightly to have missed the point of the conversation. Nobody's disputing that more sales are converted with a follow-up sequence!

        What matters to some of us is by whom the follow-up sequence is sent and to whose benefit the eventual sales are.
        Right, but unless the vendor does something underhanded, the sales will still be credited to the affiliate, even is the sale was made via autoresponder sequence.

        Plus, your last post said something along the lines of "professional affiliates" avoid vendors with opt-in pages, so I think my reply was right on track.

        Jay Jennings
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  • Profile picture of the author LegionNate
    It seems to just boil down to whether or not you find your CB affiliate link in the emails that come to you or not through the email sequence. I gave the site to one guy by PM, but haven't heard back from him. I don't know if this is against the rules or not, but I'm just going to go ahead and list the product name, and if someone else wants to check it and see if it indeed DOES NOT give affiliate commissions, like I think it does not when I click on a link from an email I receive, that would be awesome. Product is:PENNYSTOCKPROPHET.COM

    No aff. link there, and this is not a robot of any kind (because someone made mention of forex/stock robot sellers as being less scrupulous sometimes). Who knows.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jay Jennings
      Originally Posted by LegionNate View Post

      It seems to just boil down to whether or not you find your CB affiliate link in the emails that come to you or not through the email sequence. Product isENNYSTOCKPROPHET
      Nate -

      The email link doesn't have to be YOUR affiliate link, as long as it's just a normal link back to the sales page you're fine because your cookie is still in place (for 60 days).

      Go to that site using your CB link and then click the order link. Check the bottom of the order form for your name.

      Now, go sign up for his free report. When you get it, click the link in the email that sends you back to his site, click through to the order form, and see if your name is still there (it will be, I tried it).

      Voila - more sales because the vendor used a follow-up sequence and you STILL get your commission.

      Jay Jennings
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      • Profile picture of the author DeePower
        Think about this. The vendor has the opt in form on the sales page and figures if the affiliate didn't make the sale to the customer on the first visit why should the affiliate get a commission if the vendor does all the work with the follow up messages?

        What's unethical about the vendor using their own affiliate link as a replacement in the follow up messages? Clickbank says it follows the TOS. Clickbank TOS says last cookie gets the credit for the sale.

        You know what I think is worse? It's the affiliate link at the bottom (and sometimes at the top) of probably 75% of vendor sales pages. No, I haven't gone through and counted how many of the top 50 CB vendors have an affiliate link on their sale page, but I've got the info and it will be part of the report sent to my members at the end of every month.

        Customer goes to sales page sees the affiliate link and thinks, mmmm I'll just buy through my own affiliate link and save up to 75%.

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        • Profile picture of the author blackhawkup
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          Originally Posted by DeePower View Post

          Think about this. The vendor has the opt in form on the sales page and figures if the affiliate didn't make the sale to the customer on the first visit why should the affiliate get a commission if the vendor does all the work with the follow up messages?

          What's unethical about the vendor using their own affiliate link as a replacement in the follow up messages? Clickbank says it follows the TOS. Clickbank TOS says last cookie gets the credit for the sale.

          You know what I think is worse? It's the affiliate link at the bottom (and sometimes at the top) of probably 75% of vendor sales pages. No, I haven't gone through and counted how many of the top 50 CB vendors have an affiliate link on their sale page, but I've got the info and it will be part of the report sent to my members at the end of every month.

          Customer goes to sales page sees the affiliate link and thinks, mmmm I'll just buy through my own affiliate link and save up to 75%.

          Dee
          Originally Posted by alexa_s View Post

          That's the big "unless", and the part we can't control or influence or even realistically monitor, as affiliates.

          Many vendors are quick to claim that it's a rarity but actually nobody knows.

          Fortunately there are plenty of opt-in-free products not giving us the problem to worry about, as so many Warriors have been pointing out in so many threads over recent weeks. We can build our own lists for those and send our own follow-ups to maximise outcomes.

          I completely agree with you guys.....see JAY the point they are trying to convey is that yes we know more contacts with the prospect equals more sells...so why dont we make those contacts ourselves!!we dont want to have to "think" ur aff links are being used we want to know it because its our "BUSINESS" thats on the line. also we want to build our own list bottom line im already sending a prospect to your product why would i build your list as well. thats just making more competition for myself now..because you will be making multiple sales from a prospect that i could be making multiple sales from(i know they could make more sales from upsells, but you get my point)..
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  • Profile picture of the author iBBnet
    Exactly!!!
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    Bryan
    After5PC.net
    Freelance Web Development
    and Graphic Design Services
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  • Profile picture of the author searchnology
    Old thread but here's some useful information....

    1. The argument of "risk" should not be based on hypothetical possibilities but rather on data. The most important metric in affiliate marketing is EPC (earning per click) I don't really care what somebody does with the traffic I am sending them as long as I get an effective EPC.

    2. The argument of building an opt-in list yourself and sending users directly to a CB order form is sound but there are some issues. First, you might be sending far less traffic to the affiliate order form if you are lengthening the sales funnel. The numbers may even out with higher conversion rates but that is not always the case. Once again the EPC will tell you what to do. Secondly, you will need to create a lot of "pre-sell" content for each and every affiliate offer. If you are in the mode of constantly testing offers, this is a lot of work without knowing the outcome. I propose to first test traffic to the vendor landing page to see if the offer even converts at all before doing all of that work.

    Now here's the data...of the 50 or so CB affiliate products that I promote via Clickbank...the best EPCs are from those with OPT-IN FORMS on the site. No surprise there. Of those that I have tested without first sending them to the vendor's landing page, the EPCs are slightly lower thus I don't usually waste time creating a lot of pre-sell information these days.

    Now, I am also a CB vendor and what you have to understand is that if I am not honest with my opt-in traffic, my affiliates will stop sending traffic. (Just like I do when an offer is not converting for me as an affiliate) Now if I want to be successful on Clickbank WHY IN THE HECK WOULD I HURT MY AFFILIATES AND REDUCE MY TRAFFIC. Thus the argument in #1 above means that I am willing to shoot myself in the foot...not likely and very rare...too rare to be of concern.

    I hope that helps someone.
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