Offline prospect wants proof that e-mail marketing works - what do I say?

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

I am talking about offline marketing and you are comparing it to heart surgery. Now who is comparing apples to oranges? At any rate ... and to the heart (pun intended) of the matter.

Stop chasing dead fish.

Seriously, stop it. As Dan Kennedy says unzip your pants and make sure you still have a pair. Chasing after a single customer/love interest/job/ etc is foolish and frankly it comes off as desperate. And clients smell that like a bottle of cheap cologne.

True story time.

After my first marriage went the way of the Titanic I had to get out there dating again. Man I sucked at it, but I kept at it and about a month or two after I started I was going on 3-4 different dates. There is nothing more brass balls then telling a women - hey I'd love to call you some time but I have 3 more dates this week so why don't you call me.

Guess what - they did, they actually called me to go on a second date. Why? Because I was a desperate guy waiting by the phone to call them 10 times a day. I had my crap together and I was going places.

The women I married (the second and final time) ... called me to go out on the second date.

My point is be the one who is chased, not the one doing the chasing.

When there is only one "fish" in the sea you better catch it or die but if you understand that there are a million women/fish/etc out there when you don't catch one then you can just throw your pole back in the water.

Tim

I'm still not disagreeing with you.

The point about the surgeon was to illustrate the level of asinine thinking by rank amateurs who might have a lot of cajones in their sacks, but still need to learn a little before actually running down the road, advising people about something almost as serious as a heart transplant - how to run their business.

As MacFreddie indicated and I can also reflect my own observations, I've seen businesses that have literally been devastated because they put faith into a consultant who had a lot of brass, and sold the owner into some consulting engagement - only to fail at cramming to learn on the job and make good recommendations in direction. They were subsequently sued and proved to be a fraud for having sold themselves as something that they weren't.

And that is something that I highly doubt Dan Kennedy would recommend that anyone do.

[Glenn Leader]

If you don't have niche list already to show how email marketing
can bring in real orders, then why don't you get hard to convince
businesses on your offline marketing list? Let your autoresponder
do the education while you go out to get more prospects.

HTH

Glenn

[Glenn Leader]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Not exactly.

There's this thing called liability. And all a client has to do is prove that you really didn't know WTF you were talking about, and you'll be putting his great grandchildren through college.

Business owners actually joke about idiots who play office as professional consultants.

Selling your expertise when there is none is a sure fire path to the defense attorney's office.

I have professional liability insurance... dirt cheep. I get
free legal advice etc. too as part of the package.

HTH

Glenn

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by Glenn Leader

I have professional liability insurance... dirt cheep. I get
free legal advice etc. too as part of the package.

HTH

Glenn

Absolutely. If someone is engaging in any substantial level of consulting work, some kind of E&O policy is a must. And they're generally not too expensive.

[MrYossu]

Originally Posted by Michael Silvester

"81% of businesses plan to increase spending on email marketing." -- Alterian, 2006

"Email marketing in the US will account for approximately 71,000 jobs in 2006, growing at 8-10% annually." -- DMA, October, 2006

"Email delivers the highest ROI by an eye-popping margin:a whopping $57.25 for every dollar spent on it in 2005." -- DMA, October, 2006

"70% of the top retail sites in Google's paid search listings offered email newsletters." -- JupiterResearch, March 2006

54% of respondents in a consumer survey said they had a more favorable opinion of the companies that send them email. - Epsilon (Oct 2008)

44% of respondents in a consumer survey said that email from financial services companies make them feel more loyal towards the companies and their products - Epsilon (Oct 2008)

PM me if you want a heap more

Thanks for those, they are brilliant. I'll PM you right now.

Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh

As someone else mentioned the real issue is probably that you're trying to convince a prospect who is just not worth the effort.

How do you know he's not worth the effort?

Not trying to be rude, or criticise anyone here, but I'm amazed at the amount of negative comments this thread has raised. If I were to follow the line of reasoning put forward here, I would give up at the prospect's slightest sign of anything other than delight, and would never get a customer.

I don't see what's so bad about discussing the issues with a customer. I'm glad he's asking intelligent questions, and feel confident that if he does decide to take up the offer, he'll be doing it from an informed position, and will make a better customer. If he doesn't take up the offer, he will have helped me understand my prospects' point of view a lot better, and will have enabled me to present my case better next time. Either way, that's a worthwhile investment of my time.

I agree that there comes a point when it's not worth continuing, but my discussions with him have so far entailed a 15 minute 'phone call, and several e-mails. Hardly a huge investment of my time, and certainly not enough to justify labelling him as a waste of time.

This isn't directed at you Andrew, but is a general comment on the nature of many of the replies. I don't understand how anyone gets any business with such an attitude of giving up so easily.

Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh

There are so many buisness owners who would be happy to hire you.

Sure there are, and many of them will have reasonable questions before they say yes. Do I give up as soon as they ask a challenging question?

Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh

Be friendly, ask for referrals and move on to your next prospect.

And what will I do with those referrals? Give up at the first question as well? I'll spend a long time getting nowhere at that rate.

Again, this isn't a flame, and certainly not against you personally Andrew. I've learnt a lot from you and respect you. I'm just amazed at the ease with which I'm supposed to give up on a client who asked two perfectly justifiable questions.

I would be interested in positive comments on this. If anyone takes offence at my words, then please accept my pre-emptive apology and move along. I didn't make the comments to upset anyone, and do not wish to argue with anyone. I'd just like to know why (almost) everyone is so quick to drop prospects. Maybe you all have to suffer the ordeal of prospects ringing you night and day, begging you to take their money. I don't. I'm not at that stage yet, and am quite happy to put in a little effort to get a client.

Ta ra

P.S. If anyone would like to show me how to get endless streams of hot prospects ringing me up and begging me to take their money, then please feel free to do so! I would be very happy to be in that position. So far I've had to work for my clients. I'd love to find an easier way, but haven't done so yet. If you have, which would explain why you can afford to drop a prospect to quickly, then please educate me

Originally Posted by Vince Runza Online

Show your prospect this: Why do email marketing?

Vince, if I could hit the "Thanks" button multiple times, I would! That was not only spot on for this client, but a gem of a site altogether.

Thanks very much

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Chasing after a single customer/love interest/job/ etc is foolish and frankly it comes off as desperate. And clients smell that like a bottle of cheap cologne.

Maybe this is where I'm playing a different CD from you all.

When did I say I was chasing a single client? When did I even say I was chasing him?

I have been discussing marketing with a prospect, amongst other prospects, and have been answering his questions. I am not devoting my entire life to this, nor even a significant amount of it. So far, I have had a 15 minute 'phone conversation and some e-mails. As he's in a different country, it's not practical to sit down with him. I've actually spent a lot more time in this single thread than I have with him!

I agree that you shouldn't devote your life to chasing one prospect, but going to the opposite extreme and dropping one at the first question seems just as illogical to me.

Ta ra

Originally Posted by Kevin_Hutto

Tim,
I agree with you about the sales side of things. And I think that the OP should probably move on.

No disrespect intended, but you seem to be basing this suggestion on very little knowledge of the situation. Please read my previous replies and see if you still think I should move on. If you do, I would like to know how you ever stick out a conversation long enough to win a client.

Again, no disrespect or offence intended. I'm just surprised at how easily people seem to give up.

Originally Posted by Kevin_Hutto

But... my original comment was pointing out the fact that if he has to come to the warrior forum to acquire a lucid argument for email marketing then maybe he isn't ready to hold himself out as a professional consultant.

Well, maybe you read my original post differently, but that wasn't what I asked.

I am already very familiar with e-mail marketing, and have no problem explaining its benefits to prospects. I came asking specifically for some references that it works for professional services, as opposed to e-commerce.

My personal experience so far has been more with small shops, and the prospect asked for evidence that the ideas would be applicable to his business as well. I asked if anyone had support that I could show him. That's a very different question from looking for arguments for e-mail marketing overall.

Originally Posted by Kevin_Hutto

I dont know the OP and am not accusing him of that at all. My point was and still is: Dont just learn the "tricks of the trade"... Learn the trade.

I know the trade well enough to benefit my customers. I have been doing e-mail marketing for some years, although not for offline customers for all of that time. I don't claim to be a guru, but I certainly know enough to bring genuine value to many offline businesses. I'm just trying to expand my horizons.

I hope this clarifies matters.

Originally Posted by brunski57

The problem is he Does Not Trust You... you are TOO young, just a kid.

Judging from your picture you look about 7-8 years old.

I afraid you'll just have to wait another 10 years or so.

Hee hee, that picture was taken about 40 years ago! I used it because it looks more pleasant than one of a fat and hairy middle-aged man!

[Jillian Slack]

Fabulous advice here.

Another thing to consider. Let's say you have given this prospect your best shot at educating him on why he needs your services and he STILL isn't getting it.

Get him signed up on YOUR newsletter and then he will be reminded of you often.

He will see your clients' success stories in your newsletter.

He will see the news that you have found related to online marketing and included in your newsletter.

Eventually he will realize what he is missing out on, but if he doesn't ever come around, find a different client in that same industry. You won't get 100% of them. Just don't let it get to the point where you have invested so much time and energy in this guy that you could have been convincing and signing up 10 or 20 others.

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Remember those 4 NFL players that died off the coast of Florida last year? Turns out it was over a $200 anchor that the boat owner didn't want to cut loose. $200 = 3 lives because he wanted to hang on to the anchor.

There's more to the story.

The boat owner had already lost one anchor earlier - in the same spot. When this anchor lodged in the rocks, the boat owner took a suggestion from an incompetent adviser.

The adviser suggested that they could get a better pull on the line by moving the rope from the bow to the stern. The result was that, rather than simply taking on water because of rough seas, the boat's stern was dragged into the water and the boat flipped. Three lives lost and one likely permanently damaged.

Why?

The boat owner took advice from someone not competent to give that advice, and neither knew enough to realize what might happen.

Changing gears...

Yossu, gaining value from building a list doesn't always mean direct sales.

Your professional could gain a lot of value by getting prospective customers, clients, whatever into an email series that answered the basic questions that almost every client might have. This would free the professional and his staff to pursue tasks with more immediate value.

As an example, my ophthalmologist combines his website and email to guide potential patients through the process of working with his practice, what to expect, pros and cons of various procedures, etc.

Patients can even download PDF versions of the forms they fill out to become patients. I appreciated it, and I overheard others mentioning that it was much more convenient to fill out the forms at home, in comfort, rather than trying to balance a clipboard on their knee in the waiting room.

I asked the doc, and he said that little service alone saves him several hours per week. Multiply that by the average staff salary, and you have a value that is in addition to any direct sales.

[MrYossu]

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Yossu, gaining value from building a list doesn't always mean direct sales.

Your professional could gain a lot of value by getting prospective customers, clients, whatever into an email series that answered the basic questions that almost every client might have. This would free the professional and his staff to pursue tasks with more immediate value.

Excellent point, thanks very much for that.

[Preben Frenning]

@MrYossu - If he haven't bought into it yet, it's something wrong you have done, or something you haven't done.

You could always give him 1 month for free, and show him why it works. Regardless of how many subscribers you are able to get him, remind him that those are potential customers, and they WANT to get emails from him, as well as offers. - Make him realize he would be an idiot if he doesn't continue to build his list, without telling him directly.

You can do this by asking the right questions, and make him talk himself into it.

As for proof that it works, show him ANY very successful business with a website. You can be 99.9% certain that they have some kind of opt-in form on their website. Why? - Because it works.

Also, watch your language. You know internet marketing and all of the terms, while it might not make sense to him at all. Don't use words like "autoresponder" etc. Especially not "pop-up", as he will most likely have a very negative attitude towards it.


And you mentioned he had talked with other business owners about it, and they didn't think it would work. Well, if you make it work for him, you will immediately have several new clients. He will definitely talk about it to them, if he defies their advice, and have great success with it. It makes him look good, and they trust him too, meaning easy sales for you. He will take care of all the selling, and you will just need pick up your checks, and make lists for them.

Andrew Cavanaugh mentioned earlier in a post I made, that referrals are the easiest kind of customers you will ever have, and it's true. In many cases, you can even tell them you're not sure if you will be able to do much for them, but they won't care. - They want YOU to work with them.

I seriously see a great opportunity to get lots of referrals here. Try to get in contact with any of the people he had talked with, and make them a customer, and you will get the other ones too. It shouldn't be that hard if you're decent at selling. After all, they have no idea what they are talking about, regarding lists not being effective. Shouldn't be too hard with the tips you have got in this thread.

As for positioning yourself as an authority, it makes business more fun, as well as it will boost your income. Taking control is probably one of the best things about sales, and a good number 2. after getting the sale itself.

This thread is golden, and I will keep checking back. Thanks for sharing so much guys!

And the best of luck to you MrYossu =)
- Preben

[MrYossu]

Hello,

Originally Posted by Preben Frenning

As for proof that it works, show him ANY very successful business with a website. You can be 99.9% certain that they have some kind of opt-in form on their website. Why? - Because it works.

I don't think he's question the basic idea of e-mail marketing, just whether it will work for professional services, as opposed to e-commerce sites.

Originally Posted by Preben Frenning

And you mentioned he had talked with other business owners about it, and they didn't think it would work.

Actually, he said he had asked some friends about it. Don't think they were business owners at all.

However, your points about referrals are very valid.

Originally Posted by Preben Frenning

And the best of luck to you MrYossu =)

Thanks, and the same to you

[Mohammad Afaq]

If you have a list and you been promoting affiliate programs to them and had success then you can show him you clickbank or paypal account pictures.

Still make sure that nothing is on you by telling him that you don't take responsibility of the results.

[Preben Frenning]

Oh, another thing!
This have worked extremely well for me in the past, and I'm sure it can help you too.

Talk about all the different things he can do with a list,using spesific examples to his company.
Is customerflow seasonbased? (For example, some companies might have lots of work to do in the summer, and nothing to do in the automn. Tell them you can increase customer flow at those times, as you can email a discount to the list etc.)

Using specific examples like that can really make business owners think for themselves, and fire them up a bit.

[MacFreddie]

Originally Posted by MrYossu

P.S. If anyone would like to show me how to get endless streams of hot prospects ringing me up and begging me to take their money, then please feel free to do so! I would be very happy to be in that position. So far I've had to work for my clients. I'd love to find an easier way, but haven't done so yet. If you have, which would explain why you can afford to drop a prospect to quickly, then please educate me

Are you doing any Direct Mail?

Mac

[Jillian Slack]

@MrYossu - If he haven't bought into it yet, it's something wrong you have done, or something you haven't done.

This is not always true.

There will always be some people who just don't get it. No matter how hard you try, they will not understand or they will not let go of their checkbook, no matter how great your presentation is.

If that statement were true, 100% of your prospects would sign up with you.

If you are having success with other clients signing up for your services, then obviously you are doing something right.

If 100% of them are not signing up with you, it's time to revamp your presentation and take a good look to figure out what you are doing wrong and fix it.

With a client like this one, you will get to a point where you have to weigh the time you have already invested vs. the what you could have been doing with that time, and then move on if the client still does not get it.

Otherwise, you could spend hours, days, or weeks trying to convince this guy, while you could have had several other people who DO get it signing up with you and moving forward.

[MrYossu]

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

Are you doing any Direct Mail?

Mac

Done some, but with little success. I've been mailing stuff, then following up with 'phone calls. Lot of work, less than impressive results.

[MrYossu]

Originally Posted by Jillian Slack

This is not always true.

There will always be some people who just don't get it. No matter how hard you try, they will not understand or they will not let go of their checkbook, no matter how great your presentation is.

If that statement were true, 100% of your prospects would sign up with you.

If you are having success with other clients signing up for your services, then obviously you are doing something right.

If 100% of them are not signing up with you, it's time to revamp your presentation and take a good look to figure out what you are doing wrong and fix it.

Finally, someone who understands! I was beginning to think I was on my own here.

Originally Posted by Jillian Slack

With a client like this one, you will get to a point where you have to weigh the time you have already invested vs. the what you could have been doing with that time, and then move on if the client still does not get it.

Otherwise, you could spend hours, days, or weeks trying to convince this guy, while you could have had several other people who DO get it signing up with you and moving forward.

Quite correct, but as I have mentioned in other replies, my total investment so far has been a 15 minute 'phone conversation, and a few e-mails. Hardly a major investment, and certainly not enough to write him off as not being worth the effort! It may get to the stage where I will give up, but I'm not near that yet. The rewards are sufficient to make each prospect worth a reasonable amount of time and effort.

Thanks

[MacFreddie]

Originally Posted by MrYossu

Done some, but with little success. I've been mailing stuff, then following up with 'phone calls. Lot of work, less than impressive results.

What does "done some" mean?

How many mailers at one time?

Was it a Postcard, letter, ...?

What does the mailer look like?

Was it a Stamp or Impression?

What day does it arrive?

Was it a Sequential campaign?

What did the copy say? Was there a powerful CTA (call to action), sense of Urgency, Limited offer, etc...? Can you post your mailer?

What was your response ratio?

What is your ROI per mailer?

What was your Modality to respond?

A good mail campaign is KILLER.

If you care to elaborate I'll try to help.

Mac

[Ross Bowring]

If he doesn't see the value of e-mail marketing already I'd probably cut him loose...

BUT if you want to give it a shot, you could just ask him if he's ever bought anything through e-mail marketing before. If he says "no" then you walk away. If he says he has then ask him what made him buy? Whatever his answer... you tell him you can build him an e-mail marketing campaign just like the one he bought from.

[Black Hat Cat]

Tell him to hire his friends to make his business better if they know so much.

[SageSound]

Let me ask you something ...

If you were selling cars, and you tried to sell a car to a guy who CLEARLY wanted to buy one, but it has a diesel engine in it, and his friends all tell him to avoid diesels, what are you going to do?

There used to be a time when diesel fuel was 30%-40% cheaper than regular gasoline, and then you could sell cars based on the type of fuel they consumed.

Today, hybrids and electrics are a great example. In a few years, we're supposed to believe that hydrogen fuel-cells will be all the rage.

Now, I could go on for quite a while discussing the type of fuel that vehicles use, but ... are we talking about FUEL or CARS here?

Your client wants MORE BUSINESS, right?

Why are you getting bogged down in a debate about one specific MECHANISM?

"I'll increase your traffic/sales/profits by xx% in yy days, guaranteed."

Don't address the HOW part! That's YOUR business.

You say your client is a "professional". Clearly, he's not in the Marketing field. So, why are you arguing with him about marketing methods? If he's an accountant, say something like, "My friend said Corporations are dangerous today, and that LLCs are much safer. So what advice would you have for me in setting up an LLC?" He'll probably try to tell you that each one has its pluses and minuses and they depend on your situation. Which is a fair response to his objection about email marketing vs. other means of contacting customers (of which there are many).

You really want to focus on the BENEFITS, and not the MEANS.

-David

[George Wright]

If you want to be a superstar then produce amazing results for a customer. Amazing to who? To the customer, of course.

No more no less.

You can produce amazing results with about 1/2 hours of research/training in many different online/offline subjects.

George Wright

Originally Posted by Kevin_Hutto

Tim,
I agree with you about the sales side of things. And I think that the OP should probably move on.

But... my original comment was pointing out the fact that if he has to come to the warrior forum to acquire a lucid argument for email marketing then maybe he isn't ready to hold himself out as a professional consultant.

My comment about 10,000 hours is a reference to Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers" where he puts forth that it takes 10,000 hours of hard work to become a superstar in your profession. I have found that to be pretty accurate. I'm not merely talking about reading forums or ebooks or studying. I am talking about putting in your time doing the work.

The point of that is there are many industries where "hacks" armed with more zeal than knowledge carve a wide swath of destruction to the reputation of the group as a whole. I have worked in SEO for several years and consulted many fortune 2000 companies on their SEM strategy and I have seen more and more of this in the last year. There are guys who are doing little more than ripping people off because the client doesnt know better.

I dont know the OP and am not accusing him of that at all. My point was and still is: Dont just learn the "tricks of the trade"... Learn the trade.

[robvegas626]

I think building a list and setting up an email autoresponder is only worth doing if the messages can contain some type of useful content -- such as a "tip of the week" or whatever. If you're just sending out sales offers over and over again, then it's no better than spam. It's been said that with email marketing, it takes the typical customer seven "exposures" to your product/offer before they decide to take action. So, you'd better give them reasons to read at least six of your emails. If you're just sending them "buy this now!!" links, they won't read past the first one.

[Dave Ryan]

I'm not going to do the leg work for you... But you can get all sorts of detailed stats on the effectiveness from many well known organizations and use them as solid stats for presenting to clients. Let's see... perhaps the Direct Marketing Association? The government? these types of organizations have the ability to produce mind blowing stats... and they have. This allows you to market your services with very detailed information for the client while at the same time using proof from a source that the know. It's a win-win-win. You get a better pitch, your business grows and you help others grow their business. Everyone makes more money! That's the beauty of good B2B sales.

Dave

[HiTom]

This thread is excellent. Great advices, thanks to all.

As some others have said, I think providing case studies, even from some of your online clients (testimonials ?) should be something to do.

Or offer a free test drive for the first two weeks or first month, or just as we often see online : a money back guarantee.

[Preben Frenning]

Originally Posted by Jillian Slack

This is not always true.

There will always be some people who just don't get it. No matter how hard you try, they will not understand or they will not let go of their checkbook, no matter how great your presentation is.

If that statement were true, 100% of your prospects would sign up with you.

If you are having success with other clients signing up for your services, then obviously you are doing something right.

If 100% of them are not signing up with you, it's time to revamp your presentation and take a good look to figure out what you are doing wrong and fix it.

With a client like this one, you will get to a point where you have to weigh the time you have already invested vs. the what you could have been doing with that time, and then move on if the client still does not get it.

Otherwise, you could spend hours, days, or weeks trying to convince this guy, while you could have had several other people who DO get it signing up with you and moving forward.

I believe everyone has a trigger, and they can be very varied. But I meant in this case, as he was obviously interested at first, but listened to his friends instead. That means he probably doesn't consider you credible enough, or something similar.

If you give him an offer he can't refuse, well, then he can't refuse
A moneyback guarantee, free trial etc. gives him nothing to lose. And if you are 100% certian it will make him money, offer to PAY HIM if it doesn't make him money. After he have done what you tell him to to promote the list of course.

[AllAboutAction]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

But when you come across like the hound dog in the old Foghorn Leghorn cartoon, "WHICH WAY DID HE GO GEORGE WHICH WAY DID HE GO..." you start to shoot your credibility - pre sale AND post sale.

Priceless imagery right here.

[MrYossu]

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

What does "done some" mean?

Two campaigns, one split over two different letters.

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

How many mailers at one time?

About 100 each time

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

Was it a Postcard, letter, ...?

The first was a letter, basically David Preston's "cash cow" letter, split test with two different opening lines. The second was Shaun O'Reilly's "client attracting report."

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

What does the mailer look like?

What do you mean by mailer? Do you mean the envelope? if so, it was a plain envelope, like you'd send a letter in.

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

Was it a Stamp or Impression?

Stamp - I wanted it to look like a personal letter, which would give it a much higher chance of being opened. All addresses were hand-written for the same reason.

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

What day does it arrive?

Given the unreliable nature of our postal service, I can't say for sure, but I aimed to have them arrive mid-week.

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

Was it a Sequential campaign?

Not sure if I understand you right, but in both cases, I sent out the letter/report, then followed up with a telephone call a few days later.

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

What did the copy say? Was there a powerful CTA (call to action), sense of Urgency, Limited offer, etc...? Can you post your mailer?

If you're familiar with either of the (well known) sources I used for the letter and report, you will know that they both had powerful copy with a strong call to action. I didn't write them, so I can say that without being biased!

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

What was your response ratio?

First campaign (David Preston's letter) got one positive response out of 100 letters. They were very excited and wanted to go ahead, but were waiting for their web guy to finish their new web site. I'm still waiting! They tell me they still want to go ahead, but that they aren't ready yet. I have no doubts about their sincerity and intentions, but I don't know if they will ever get around to it.

The second campaign got one person very interested, but as they are moving shop this month, they don't want to commit to any expense until that's done. I have a note to ring them back in a few weeks. They are keen, and understand the power of what I've offered. They just need to make sure they can justify the initial investment until the extra sales start rolling in. One other person agreed to a telephone consultation following this campaign, but when I rang back at the agreed time, she was busy and said she would get back to me. I'm going to follow that one up today.

So, out of about 200 attempts, I have one client who intends to go ahead, but is stalling, another who intends to go ahead assuming the money is in place after they move shop, and one who is interested in finding out more - assuming I can get her on the 'phone long enough (not local enough to go and speak to her in person).

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

What is your ROI per mailer?

The mailings weren't hugely expensive. Even the report, which was 8 pages long and printed in colour only cost around 60p (about $1 I think) each by the time you factor in the envelope, stamp, etc. Given that one client is worth around 1800 GBP (around $2700) per year, PLUS any one-off stuff, like a new web site or some optimisation, then the ROI is good - if I can get anyone to move!

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

What was your Modality to respond?

Sorry, lost me there! What do you mean?

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

A good mail campaign is KILLER.

So I'm told, but my initial attempts have been more dead than a killer! I'm sure it's good if you can get it working. I used material and methods from two people who claim to have done this many times and optimised the stuff to work.

Originally Posted by MacFreddie

If you care to elaborate I'll try to help.

I appreciate the help. I hope my answers above will enable you to get more of an idea.

Thanks very much.

[MrYossu]

Originally Posted by Ross77

If he doesn't see the value of e-mail marketing already I'd probably cut him loose...

BUT if you want to give it a shot, you could just ask him if he's ever bought anything through e-mail marketing before. If he says "no" then you walk away. If he says he has then ask him what made him buy? Whatever his answer... you tell him you can build him an e-mail marketing campaign just like the one he bought from.

If you read my previous replies, you'll see that I explained that he is quite convinced that it works for e-commerce and the like. He was just not convinced it would work for professional service providers.

I have e-mailed him some info, based on some of the comments I got here, and will wait and see what he says.

[JohnMcCabe]

So, out of about 200 attempts, I have one client who intends to go ahead, but is stalling, another who intends to go ahead assuming the money is in place after they move shop, and one who is interested in finding out more - assuming I can get her on the 'phone long enough (not local enough to go and speak to her in person).

It might sound picky, but there's a definite distinction. At this point, you don't have any clients out of your 200 attempts. You have two serious prospects and one lukewarm prospect.

Once you have a solid agreement, backed by a deposit you can actually deposit, you have clients.

Back when I actively worked in retail, I used to watch salespeople counting their sales and mentally spending their commissions on the same kind of "be-backs". Once they accepted that many of those be-backs wouldn't really be back, they experienced a subtle shift in attitude that resulted in more signed orders and cash sales.

[MrYossu]

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

It might sound picky, but there's a definite distinction. At this point, you don't have any clients out of your 200 attempts. You have two serious prospects and one lukewarm prospect.

Once you have a solid agreement, backed by a deposit you can actually deposit, you have clients.

Back when I actively worked in retail, I used to watch salespeople counting their sales and mentally spending their commissions on the same kind of "be-backs". Once they accepted that many of those be-backs wouldn't really be back, they experienced a subtle shift in attitude that resulted in more signed orders and cash sales.

You're right, and I realised the typo (which is what it was) when I read the posted reply. I just couldn't be bothered going back and editing it!

I'm not counting my chickens before they're hatched. Thanks for the reply.

[docsulo]

I don't think he's question the basic idea of e-mail marketing, just whether it will work for professional services, as opposed to e-commerce sites.

This is an objection that should have been handled earlier in the process.

Study Dan Kennedy in his Magnetic Marketing presentation for some good take-aways on how to address this in a conversational manner in your area of consulting (to more than one niche).

Or better yet...

Focus on one niche - ie - attorneys, MDs etc. and become an expert with LOTS OF PROOF of results in that niche.

This is more profitable in the long run and opens up possibilities of licensing proven campaigns, content, etc.

[Glenn Leader]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Absolutely. If someone is engaging in any substantial level of consulting work, some kind of E&O policy is a must. And they're generally not too expensive.

I pay just a couple of quid a month, added to my car/house insurance.
About three bucks of your American money. Well worth if for the piece
of mind.

GLenn

[Glenn Leader]

Originally Posted by docsulo

This is an objection that should have been handled earlier in the process.

Study Dan Kennedy in his Magnetic Marketing presentation for some good take-aways on how to address this in a conversational manner in your area of consulting (to more than one niche).

Or better yet...

Focus on one niche - ie - attorneys, MDs etc. and become an expert with LOTS OF PROOF of results in that niche.

This is more profitable in the long run and opens up possibilities of licensing proven campaigns, content, etc.

Spot on. Concentrate on one vertical market at a time.

[MrYossu]

Originally Posted by docsulo

This is an objection that should have been handled earlier in the process.

I would have, if I had anticipated it.

Originally Posted by docsulo

Study Dan Kennedy in his Magnetic Marketing presentation for some good take-aways on how to address this in a conversational manner in your area of consulting (to more than one niche).

Or better yet...

Focus on one niche - ie - attorneys, MDs etc. and become an expert with LOTS OF PROOF of results in that niche.

This is more profitable in the long run and opens up possibilities of licensing proven campaigns, content, etc.

Well, you still have to get your first client in that niche, which brings us right back here again.

Also, I didn't approach this one. He followed a link on another site I wrote, entered his name and e-mail into my opt-in form and read my e-mails.

No, he didn't spot the irony either! He contacted me - a professional service provider - after reading my e-mails, and then suggested that e-mail marketing doesn't work for professional service providers

I'll be interested to see what he comes back with on that one.

[docsulo]

Originally Posted by MrYossu

I would have, if I had anticipated it.

All the more reason to be prepared in the future. While you're trying to close this potential client take note of the things that are going wrong and what can be done to fix them. Focusing entirely on this particular close will not move your business or your skills forward.

You may want to make a list of possible objections.

"That won't work in my business" will be your biggest one if you work in multiple niches.

Originally Posted by MrYossu

Well, you still have to get your first client in that niche, which brings us right back here again

Lot's of ways to go about that. Think creatively. Take away the risk of working with you - a consultant with no proof of results in their niche.

Fighting someone's beliefs head on is a recipe for failure.

Your potential client either:

a. Doesn't believe that e-mail marketing will work for him in his particular business
b. Doesn't believe you

If these are beliefs he has consciously or un-consciously, then everything you say or do from this point on will be filtered through those beliefs. Those beliefs will modulate every word from your mouth.

This is why many on this thread have suggested that you move on.

I am assuming (maybe incorrectly) that you don't have many other prospects to speak to - in which case practicing with this one is fine. However, you must give the prospect room to change their beliefs on their own - and this will require massive risk reversal and subsequent proof of performance.

[MrYossu]

Originally Posted by docsulo

All the more reason to be prepared in the future. While you're trying to close this potential client take note of the things that are going wrong and what can be done to fix them. Focusing entirely on this particular close will not move your business or your skills forward.

Although I never really made much in IM, one thing I really picked up on was to learn from my mistakes. I'm certainly viewing each conversation with any prospect as a learning exercise, irrespective of the result.

Originally Posted by docsulo

You may want to make a list of possible objections.

"That won't work in my business" will be your biggest one if you work in multiple niches.

Lot's of ways to go about that. Think creatively. Take away the risk of working with you - a consultant with no proof of results in their niche.

Fighting someone's beliefs head on is a recipe for failure.

Generally, I've not come across this objection. The way I've been putting the idea across to people is based in their own niche, and no-one has ever suggested this before.

Originally Posted by docsulo

Your potential client either:

a. Doesn't believe that e-mail marketing will work for him in his particular business
b. Doesn't believe you

Well, I'm not sure how firm those beliefs are. Remember, we only had a 15 minute conversation, which isn't really enough to substantiate the ideas. After that he mentioned it to a few friends who put him off the idea.

I answered his first objection, and he moved onto another. I have presented him with evidence that this is also not an objection. I am waiting to see how he reacts to this one.

From my brief knowledge of him, I get the impression that he's quite prepared to change his mind if he sees reasonable evidence. I've given him some fairly strong arguments that it will work for him, so we'll see what he says.

He may still decide it's not for him, in which case I've not lost a great deal of time or effort, but have learnt a lot about talking to prospects. It would be nice to expect to win over every prospect, but it's hardly realistic, so I'm not going to cry myself to sleep over it!

Originally Posted by docsulo

If these are beliefs he has consciously or un-consciously, then everything you say or do from this point on will be filtered through those beliefs. Those beliefs will modulate every word from your mouth.

This is why many on this thread have suggested that you move on.

Could be, but in my humble opinion, the suggestors have been far to keen to drop a prospect at the first sign of objection. I don't see the problem in discussing issues, presenting information and allowing him to think about the ideas.

Originally Posted by docsulo

I am assuming (maybe incorrectly) that you don't have many other prospects to speak to - in which case practicing with this one is fine. However, you must give the prospect room to change their beliefs on their own - and this will require massive risk reversal and subsequent proof of performance.

I'm not pushing him at all. I've provided him with some information, and am sitting back and waiting for him to make the next move. I may follow up if he doesn't come back to me, but I'm not going to do it too quickly. I have other things I want to try.

Thanks