Competing with the big boys...

[Richelo Killian]

Right, so as to not be accused of promoting, I have turned off my signature for this post, and will do so for all replies I do on this post.

I also ask you not mention specific names or services in this post.

So, why the reason for the post?

I would like to hear your thoughts on how you would compete with long and well established business for a product or service.

I don't want to hear the negative comments like don't even try! If Apple listened, we would all be the poorer for it, as with many other companies taking on the big boys.

So, let's recap my own thinking and actions...

1. See, listen and act on customer complaints from the big boys.
2. Develop a product or service which is as good as, if not better than the big boys. This has to include ALL aspects of the product or service.
3. Price it competitively.
4. Test it to death, knowing that when it launches, users will still find issues with it.
5. Invite a couple of high profile users to look at it, and get feedback.
6. Fix issues discovered in previous step.
7. Launch. Do this with all the normal avenues including Press Releases, videos, etc, etc, etc.
8. Once some initial conversion stats are known, approach high level JV partners for promotion.

All those steps are standard, and nothing new or groundbreaking there.

Now for some questions....

1. What if your new product or service takes some work to switch too?
2. What if the big boys are so entrenched in the market that no one wants to even look at your product or service?
3. What if the big boys are so entrenched in the market that no JV wants to promote you?

How do you tackle these "challenges" when entering a new market with some established big players?

I really want this to be an open and frank discussion with NO reference to any specific company, product or service!

I HONESTLY believe we can all benefit HUGELY by this discussion!

Kind Regards,

Richelo Killian

[dbarnum]

Answer these questions in your sales copy & give people compelling reasons to try your product or service:

Originally Posted by Richelo Killian

1. What if your new product or service takes some work to switch too?
2. What if the big boys are so entrenched in the market that no one wants to even look at your product ?

And about JVs, you don't need one. Start selling. As people reach out with questions, connect with them. Offer them a JV to kick things off. Be creative

[tryinhere]

? I think your busy talking the talk, go and and walk the walk, others will then follow.

[trafficwave]

Identify a niche within their market that they are either missing entirely or not quite taking care of and target that niche.

[JayXtreme]

Hey Richelo

[*]What if your new product or service takes some work to switch too?

If the current providers in the market/niche have downsides in great numbers (which they do in this case ).. then the "hassle" of switching is well worth it.

Just recently, a marketer from this forum switched his whole affiliate management system, a week or so before launch of his new product. When the pro's outweight the con's.. the switch becomes necessary.

Our job (or yours in this case) is to showcase the pro's for your product/service and let happy customers start to work in your favour. As a sidenote... this is how I found out about your service.

[*]What if the big boys are so entrenched in the market that no one wants to even look at your product or service?

No big boys are EVER "so entrenched" in the market like this. Upon first inspection, it may appear that way.. but massive shifts in the shopping cart management market over the years have proven to us that no company is too big to become second best to a rival service. The big players in your market/niche are only as big as their last big advocate

Just my opinion

Peace

Jay

[Kyle Tully]

Originally Posted by Richelo Killian

1. See, listen and act on customer complaints from the big boys.
2. Develop a product or service which is as good as, if not better than the big boys. This has to include ALL aspects of the product or service.
3. Price it competitively.
4. Test it to death, knowing that when it launches, users will still find issues with it.
5. Invite a couple of high profile users to look at it, and get feedback.
6. Fix issues discovered in previous step.
7. Launch. Do this with all the normal avenues including Press Releases, videos, etc, etc, etc.
8. Once some initial conversion stats are known, approach high level JV partners for promotion.

Now for some questions....

1. What if your new product or service takes some work to switch too?
2. What if the big boys are so entrenched in the market that no one wants to even look at your product or service?
3. What if the big boys are so entrenched in the market that no JV wants to promote you?

How do you tackle these "challenges" when entering a new market with some established big players?

Hey Richelo

What I don't see in there is a USP.

What's your positioning? Why should anyone choose you over all other options?

If you're just another "me too" competitor it's going to be an uphill struggle from day one. You're fighting for mindshare that's already claimed, against bigger competitors with deep pockets... and you've got one hand tied behind your back!

Everything you've done -- and every question you've asked -- is framed from a perspective of doing the same thing as the "big boys".

Establish your own unique positioning and the rest of the marketing puzzle will solve itself

Cheers
Kyle

[Richelo Killian]

Originally Posted by dbarnum

Answer these questions in your sales copy & give people compelling reasons to try your product or service:

1. What if your new product or service takes some work to switch too?
2. What if the big boys are so entrenched in the market that no one wants to even look at your product ?

And about JVs, you don't need one. Start selling. As people reach out with questions, connect with them. Offer them a JV to kick things off. Be creative

Makes sense yes.

JV's are great though for quicker and deeper penetration at the beginning. Long term word of mouth and the viral aspect will kick in.

Originally Posted by tryinhere

? I think your busy talking the talk, go and and walk the walk, others will then follow.

Makes no sense. Just trying to bump your post count I assume!

Originally Posted by trafficwave

Identify a niche within their market that they are either missing entirely or not quite taking care of and target that niche.

Let's assume you are doing that with your new product or service, and the uptake is still slow because of the mind share the big boys already has?

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

Hey Richelo
[*]What if your new product or service takes some work to switch too?

If the current providers in the market/niche have downsides in great numbers (which they do in this case ).. then the "hassle" of switching is well worth it.

Just recently, a marketer from this forum switched his whole affiliate management system, a week or so before launch of his new product. When the pro's outweight the con's.. the switch becomes necessary.

Our job (or yours in this case) is to showcase the pro's for your product/service and let happy customers start to work in your favour. As a sidenote... this is how I found out about your service.
[*]What if the big boys are so entrenched in the market that no one wants to even look at your product or service?

No big boys are EVER "so entrenched" in the market like this. Upon first inspection, it may appear that way.. but massive shifts in the shopping cart management market over the years have proven to us that no company is too big to become second best to a rival service. The big players in your market/niche are only as big as their last big advocate

Just my opinion

Peace

Jay

I agree 100% that NO product, company or service is ever so entrenched that it can not be dislodged. That is the main reason for this discussion in the 1st place.

I really want to keep this generic so as to benefit as many people as possible reading this.

Happy users who tell their friends, etc, are ALWAYS the best possible way to grow and take on market and mind share. It can just sometimes take some time to get this going in big numbers.

Originally Posted by Kyle Tully

Hey Richelo

What I don't see in there is a USP.

What's your positioning? Why should anyone choose you over all other options?

If you're just another "me too" competitor it's going to be an uphill struggle from day one. You're fighting for mindshare that's already claimed, against bigger competitors with deep pockets... and you've got one hand tied behind your back!

Everything you've done -- and every question you've asked -- is framed from a perspective of doing the same thing as the "big boys".

Establish your own unique positioning and the rest of the marketing puzzle will solve itself

Cheers
Kyle

Hey Kyle,

SO true!

USP IS very important, but, not the be all and end all.

Being unique and different is a BIG one as well, and WILL be one of the big differentiators.

Again, please do not focus on MY products or services. Assume I have NON, and let's just talk in general about entering a market which is dominated by a couple of big players.

Let's say someone wants to take on Twitter, or FaceBook or Microsoft. How would you go about it?

[John Taylor]

Why do people change?

The vast majority of people need two things to be present
to make change successful:

1. Pain: There has to be some discomfort, something
   to move away from.
2. Pay Off: Some for of gain, at least one strong and
   compelling benefit. Something to move towards.

So, given that there is already an amount of pain in the
current market place, you must offer a strong and unique
selling point.. something that your prospects can only get
from you.


John

[Richelo Killian]

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Why do people change?

The vast majority of people need two things to be present
to make change successful:

1. Pain: There has to be some discomfort, something
   to move away from.
2. Pay Off: Some for of gain, at least one strong and
   compelling benefit. Something to move towards.

So, given that there is already an amount of pain in the
current market place, you must offer a strong and unique
selling point.. something that your prospects can only get
from you.


John

VERY true!

Let's for the sake of discussion, and pointing to specifics say that I am contemplating taking on PayPal directly, and offering that type of service. This way we can use specific examples as well.

Yes, this discussion will benefit me, but, HOPEFULLY, benefit the whole forum as well! I am SURE there are some other warriors around who wants to, or ARE taking on the big boys. Like Mike F did when he launched PDC to compete with CB.

Thanks for all the great comments so far.

Kind Regards,

Richelo

[globalpro]

Hey Richelo,

I agree with Jay on this one. This is how any new business comes about. The 'Big Boys' get complacent (I call it fat and sloppy) and someone steps up to fill the void.

Complacency is a business killer in that the edge is lost, and no one is irreplaceable.

To see something is missing and that people are not happy is enough to give it a go, but the only way to guarantee. Success comes from maintaining that edge by listening to what the people are saying and respond. I have seen too many people go under because they think they know more than their customer.

Within reason, the customer may be right, they may be wrong, but they will always be the customer.

I do commend you for the way you are proceeding. Realizing what you are doing, and the timing of it, no knocking what the other guy is doing wrong and focusing on what you bring to the table is the only way to go..

If it helps, the scuttlebutt on the IM street is you are moving in the right direction. Stay the course and you should do well. I wish I would have found you before I made a switch, but I think it may be only a matter of time, from the good reports I am getting.

All the best.

Thanks,

John

[John Taylor]

Richelo,

I can think of a number of specific actions that
someone contemplating taking on an already
well established website could take..

1. Reverse engineer their processes, seek
   out anyweaknesses, look for things that
   if improved would provide the user with a
   better, faster, more quality experience.
2. Identify their supporters, find the people
   who have the greatest influence in the
   marketplace and sell them on the benefits
   of the new product/service.
3. Recruit as many JV partners and affiliates
   as possible. Educate them,nurture them
   and encourage them to "evangelise" your
   competitive offer.
4. Leverage as many social networking sites
   as you possibly can to get the word out.
   Encourage people to tweet, blog and tell
   their friends and contacts about your offer.
5. Educate the market on how to best use
   your product/service to achieve their own
   aspirations. Solve their problems, give them
   something that will increase their profits.
6. Niche the niche.. offer your product/service
   to specialists with custom features. E.G. A
   service with specific features for accountants,
   lawyers, doctors, personal coaches, etc.
7. Publicity: Run a massive campaign to build
   brand recognition and to soft sell the new
   product/service to the target audience.

I guess, in the Internet Marketing tradition, I should
quit at number 7. ;-)

John

[Martin Salter]

Hey Richelo

There are many things to cover in your questions, and not easy to address
all of them here, but food for thought.


There are 3 ways to approach this

1) Act like you are one of the big boys and take them head on with a
BOLD USP
2) Target smaller parts of your current market
3) Target a different sector / niche to build your rep.


Some examples

1) When you think of how certain Courier companies marketed themselves
to make them stand out from all the other well established providers.
In essence they provide the same service, but they put a spin or bold
guarantee.

In the Pizza Business, Dominoes were the first I believe to offer, to
your door in X minutes or it is free. It won them a bite of the market.


2) Rather than head on attack the established internet marketing crowd
with your product, why not go after total newbies to the market. Approach
some of the smaller traffic exchange site owners with AWESOME JV deals,
even give them free accounts of their own and perhaps higher then standard
comms to get them to refer others.

Investigate where the newbie first enters I.M and tap them at source. They
will then grow up using your product and will recommend to others if they
are happy with what you are providing.

Perhaps use the foodstore approach
Bring them in the door with loss leaders. Maybe look at grabbing hosting
services and giving that away for FREE. Eat into some of your own margins
to get them hooked on hosting with you, provided they use your service.

3) Go after a different marketplace. IN your case, the service you provide
could be supplied to new business startups. You could approach ltd company
formation agents and ask them to send out a link to your service when they
form a new company. You make a promo video showing them why your service is
a valuable asset to have when starting a new business / company.
The formation agent makes ongoing commission far exceeding what they will
charge for their initial service, so its a win win.

Speak to call centres (outsourced) who will work on signup. Offer to pay them
the first 2 months full payment for every new customer they win for you, then
the standard aff rate for the other 10 months. So if your service is $20 pm
then pay the call centre $40 for every new client who signs via them.Then
an ongoing commission. Could you handle 1000 new business clients??

Would it be worth making a loss for 2 months to then make $x per month from
month 3?

Think about services like Hostgator paying upto $125 in commission for a service
they sell around $15pm. Why do they do this? Because they have their metrics
worked out.

As for your USP, give me a call on Skype, I have an idea that you may want to
look into that NOBODY offers that you could potentially give on your service
that will really set you apart


Many of the main points have been covered in this thread if you want to take
business away from your big boys!

Some other points to consider!

* Put an exit pop on your salespage asking the one thing that would persuade people
to move from X service to you!You may be surprised by the feedback you get.

* Run a no quibble refund offer for 30 days to try your service, or a $1
trial for 30 days.

All the best

Martin

[FrankPinch]

I think the answers are business basics! If nobody wants to look at your product, you haven't done your homework right. If you don't create anything different or innovative, you won't get ahead, in any market.

And as for Apple vs MS, with all due respect, you should do some research, Apple has always been there, same time as MS, they just always been behind because of Jobs beliefs. The story of Jobs and Gates is pretty good, i suggest you get a read on it, it's a small business course in a book!

[MichaelHiles]

Actually, the USP is the single most important foundation for the success of any business.

If you don't know how to properly differentiate yourself, then why would someone assume that what you're selling is actually appropriate for their needs or wants?

You're essentially saying, I want to sell something to the big guys. But I don't think that making a distinction of why the thing that I am selling is all that essential.

mixed messages here

It sounds as if you've got a product focus and not a customer focus, and that's quite common.

A sure fire formula for failure is to create a "me too" product. This has been documented through the history of technology marketing especially. Arbitrarily recreating PayPal, using your example, is a waste unless you've got a specific niche market or other strategy in mind, as well as a very compelling USP that shows why your market should switch-- and that includes the ROI on the total cost of ownership... the time it takes to make the switch... training the staff.... etc..

[Rod Cortez]

Years ago I was told by many well-meaning experts to not get into a certain niche because it was too crowded and too competitive. There were a lot of big players and a lot new comers coming in weekly. As proof of their wisdom they told me they tried it and failed; it would behoove me to get into a less competitive niche.

My gut told me they were both right and wrong. I'm glad I did not listen to them. I decided to learn the answer for myself.

I spent many months researching both the "big boys" and the newcomers. I bought their products, studied their sales processes, studied where and how they marketed, subscribed to all their e-zines / e-courses/ or reports. I talked to their customers and potential customers. I tested their customer support (after all, I was a customer). I found weaknesses in all of them.

During the research process I also discovered many truths. Their customers also bought other products and services. I began surveying potential customers and realized that I could compete with the "big boys". My USP was not very unique, but it didn't have to be in this case because the market was full of desperate, rabid buyers who very seldom purchased only one product. I also discovered channels of distribution that some of the big boys did not use. For example, not a single one of them used the radio and press releases consistently to get exposure so I was able to amass a large list from just those two channels. I discovered many more.

Most of them had marginal to horrible customer service. So I modeled my training platform after a company called In-And-Out Hamburger because their training processes and procedures were the best I have ever encountered (go to any In-And-Out and you will find their service excels no matter what city you go to). I could plug any motivated person into my customer service training program, coupled with quality control and audits, and blow away the competition on customer service alone.

Sometimes happy customers tell others about your service, but BLOWN-AWAY customers tell everybody they know. Most organizations are not willing to invest the time or money to create a culture that creates rabidly loyal customers, which is why I believe that I can compete in just about any market that I go into.

That's one way on how you can compete with the big boys.

RoD "Coffee-Its-In-My-Blood" CorteZ

[Andyhenry]

Hey Richelo,

I wrote a report a while ago that might be useful to you.

You can grab it here: http://www.turntoandy.com/members/pr...cheWarfare.pdf

Regards,
Andy

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

Years ago I was told by many well-meaning experts to not get into a certain niche because it was too crowded and too competitive. There were a lot of big players and a lot new comers coming in weekly. As proof of their wisdom they told me they tried it and failed; it would behoove me to get into a less competitive niche.

My gut told me they were both right and wrong. I'm glad I did not listen to them. I decided to learn the answer for myself.

I spent many months researching both the "big boys" and the newcomers. I bought their products, studied their sales processes, studied where and how they marketed, subscribed to all their e-zines / e-courses/ or reports. I talked to their customers and potential customers. I tested their customer support (after all, I was a customer). I found weaknesses in all of them.

During the research process I also discovered many truths. Their customers also bought other products and services. I began surveying potential customers and realized that I could compete with the "big boys". My USP was not very unique, but it didn't have to be in this case because the market was full of desperate, rabid buyers who very seldom purchased only one product. I also discovered channels of distribution that some of the big boys did not use. For example, not a single one of them used the radio and press releases consistently to get exposure so I was able to amass a large list from just those two channels. I discovered many more.

Most of them had marginal to horrible customer service. So I modeled my training platform after a company called In-And-Out Hamburger because their training processes and procedures were the best I have ever encountered (go to any In-And-Out and you will find their service excels no matter what city you go to). I could plug any motivated person into my customer service training program, coupled with quality control and audits, and blow away the competition on customer service alone.

Sometimes happy customers tell others about your service, but BLOWN-AWAY customers tell everybody they know. Most organizations are not willing to invest the time or money to create a culture that creates rabidly loyal customers, which is why I believe that I can compete in just about any market that I go into.

That's one way on how you can compete with the big boys.

RoD "Coffee-Its-In-My-Blood" CorteZ

Rod, I would contend that your USP was actually unique (I think that's redundant). Having superior service or capitalizing on an under-utilized distribution channel is absolutely differentiation fodder for the USP.

That BECOMES your USP.

You identified weaknesses in the competition, and differentiated yourself based on those market conditions. Your USP absolutely does NOT have to be product or service based alone.

[Million Dollar Joint Venture]

Hmmm interesting thread?

Why compete with the BIG BOYS at all?

Create your own SUCCESS I say - I managed to do a JV with a company in the UK recently that has over 4 million customers without even thinking about the BIG BOY mentality all in just 30 days - without a BIG BOY reputation, contacts etc.

If you have the right MINDSET and GUTS then just do it I say!

Sohail

[AndyBeard]

Identify people who could become your product evangelists
Often those people have blogged about problems with existing products, with a desperate need to have things fixed.

It is quite possible they have an established presence in your marketplace, but without the baggage of having promoted a competitor extensively - it is one thing to use a service, quite another to switch a large affiliate from evangelising one product over another they have been promoting heavily for years (and provides their bread & butter)

Whilst competing on price might be looked on as the most obvious, it means your potential evangelists will also face a reduced income. A small reduction is tolerable, a huge reduction isn't.

There are features you could probably inroduce to your service that currently are not being served at all, and have a significant effect on the quality of your competitors service.

Early adopters are often geeks - you need to serve their needs

[GuerrillaIM]

Use their strength against them.

They are big, you are small. Make this work for you.

Big companies move slowly. Their left hand takes months to talk to their right hand. Understand the market and make offerings quicker than they can. Alter your offer quickly so its always well positioned.

I have been competing against multi million dollar organisations for the last 8 years and this is exactly what I have been doing to keep ahead of the game.

Talk to your customers to get a feel for what they want and what they are looking for then alter the offer and product accordingly. Corporates market research is based on statistics and information passing through several pairs of hands. Often a gut feeling can blow their research out of the water.

[Richelo Killian]

Thank you everyone for your amazing responses.

All helps, all adds GREAT value, and I think if people read and follow this thread, they can all compete with the BIG boys.

I think I have had a bit of an epiphany myself.....

I think I have fallen into the "newbie" trap!

I am a newbie, thus, I can't, I don't know how, I am not well known enough, etc....
I am too young, too old, too short, too tall, too thin, too fat, and all the other I am TOO something, and thus can't!

Why not.... I have competitors. Yes, they have been around for a while, and they are well established, BUT, I am young, fast, nimble, and THUS, can adapt and change quicker, etc!

I am NOT competing against big boys! I AM a big boy! I am just competing!

Suddenly it's MUCH easier to focus on USP, price, functionality, etc, and win customers away from the OTHER competitors!

That's one of the greatest things about doing business on the Internet. We don't have to worry about massive advertising budgets. We don't have to run super bowl adds on TV or take out full page, full color adds in newspapers. A small budget can get you just as much advertising exposure as the OTHER players with BIG budgets!

Throw in a viral element, and ecstatic customers, and you virtually don't need to advertise at all!

So, to everyone considering competing with established businesses online, read all the great responses on this thread, and just GO FOR IT!!!

Cheers

Richelo

[James Schramko]

Just get out there and provide what people want.

Do it from the heart and have integrity.

The rest follows....

[James Schramko]

Originally Posted by cheesy

I agree, as long as you sell legit, people will come back and refer you to others, people will trust you more and you'll be much more successful. You should be getting customers easily after.

Having outstanding client service helps too in a sea of mediocrity

[cheesy]

Originally Posted by James Schramko

Having outstanding client service helps too in a sea of mediocrity

Yeah, that is another thing to think about, you have to help the customer out with whatever they want, dont treat them rude or anything, be as polite as possible and dont force the sales on them.