Couple Ordered to Shut Down Health Ebook Site

[Audrey Harvey]

From today's Brisbane Courier Mail:

Pair ran &squo;quack medicine&squo; websites | The Courier-Mail

[Michael Oksa]

Thanks Audrey, it's always nice to read good news like this.

All the best,
Michael

[havplenty]

Well it just confirms what I have always suspected. The whole business of selling information online would attract the attention of regulators eventually. All these miracle cures that have popped up in ebooks on the internet, which incidentally have managed to trump the big drug companies R&D department were bound to raise red flags sooner or later.

I think the Frank Kern fiasco might rear it's ugly head again.

[SteveJohnson]

Would be interesting to know just what these people were selling. Their 'quack medicine' could really be just that - but it could also be some sort of advice that the 'authorities' don't approve of.

Does my mistrust of people who wield power show through a little much? LOL

[havplenty]

[QUOTE but it could also be some sort of advice that the 'authorities' don't approve of.

Does my mistrust of people who wield power show through a little much? LOL [/QUOTE]

I don't trust the 'powers that be' either Steve, but for me it comes down to this:

The cure for Acne, which has been a major problem for people for ages is not going to suddenly emerge in a $67 ebook (which by the way is priced so high to entice affiliates) on Clickbank. A universal problem such as acne would have garnered the commercial interest of drug companies a long time ago, who would then in turn invest millions in research in finding some sort of solution. If they (drug companies) haven't been able to find some sort of one-time-fix for acne, what are the chances of some author sitting in a back room with Clickbank aspirations doing it? I hope you see my point.

I am firm believer in enterprise, but there must be something in place to ensure that people who sell stuff don't dupe people out of their money with false promises.

[SteveJohnson]

I am firm believer in enterprise, but there must be something in place to ensure that people who sell stuff don't dupe people out of their money with false promises.

I don't disagree with you on that, to a degree.

OTOH, there is quite a bit of useful information, and not a few products, that have been suppressed by authorities simply because some people have used the info or products irresponsibly or stupidly. So, we need protecting. Mama knows best. And those of us who could benefit from responsible intelligent use of said info or product are left out in the cold.

A universal problem such as acne would have garnered the commercial interest of drug companies a long time ago, who would then in turn invest millions in research in finding some sort of solution.

To use your example, it has, and they have. Have you looked on the shelves of the cosmetics aisles lately? Obviously, there's not a universal solution to acne. And who's to say that someone who found some combination of treatments that worked spectacularly shouldn't package and sell what they've learned?

#########

Of course, this is all speculation - I have no idea what these people were selling. Obviously, there were some dissatisfied customers or the nannies probably wouldn't have caught wind of it in the first place.

Just sayin' there's a little too much nannying going on - IMHO, of course

[theimdude]

So where do you draw the line?

I have a acne ebook that is plr. Part of the plr condition is that I can put my name on it and call it my own.

I have a problem with sugar. I purchased the reverse diabetes ebook on CB. I read it applied and it works. Got my sugar stable but as I like certain stuff I don't follow the instructions and now my sugar is wrong again. A doctor will tell me this ebook is garbage yet it work and the doctors remedy is a chemical pill that have side effects.

A friend of mine purchased fatloss4idiots and swears by it. The system works for him and whenever he is over in weight he used there system and it works. I tried last month a "herbal weight loss" product that is certified but the side effects is bad and it didn't help me.

For $300 I can on this forum outsource a ebook, website and all the "research" on a diabetes niche(or any health product) made and call it my own yet I know not one thing about the subject.

On the WSO section you can purchase 20 health related plr articles and call it your own yet you have no medical knowledge.

I have a few forex sites selling some forex niches but I have never traded in forex.

Basically what I am saying is that couple that was closed down are they much different to all the ebooks being sold on CB or the guy writing plr acne articles using the latest software to research google using keywords,
or the doctors claiming they have the answer. I have some stevia seeds that is not recognised by doctors for there herbal use as an alternative for sugar. Yet they prescribe sweeteners that have poison in it.

A person selling a product saying they make $1000 a week could not even afford to pay me $15 to create a ebook cover. Is this person any different?

I am not saying what they did was right but in comparison to what I mentioned is there a difference?

[havplenty]

Originally Posted by theimdude

A person selling a product saying they make $1000 a week could not even afford to pay me $15 to create a ebook cover. Is this person any different?

So where do you draw the line?

I think that is precisely the point. At some stage information products should face the 'merchantable quality' test that every other good or service is subjected to.

The internet has made it easy for people to make money but unfortunately it has also made it easy for people to scam people out of their money.

[MichaelHiles]

I don't know how many "just sell em' something" marketers have argued this point with me.

At some point, someone, somewhere actually has to know what in the hell they're talking about. I see so much crap touted as "quick and easy product creation". Hell you don't have to know $hit from shinola! Just make some schlocky crap and sell it to as many people as you can get to buy it.

I'm glad this is coming to an end.

[Audrey Harvey]

Quote "testimonials on the sites were from the same people". So they have various sites selling ebooks on various medical conditions, and all the people giving the testimonials have had all the conditions and successfully tried all of their cures?

Quote "Expert evidence provided to the ACCC showed the treatment would not have any therapeutic benefits or medical efficacy in the treatment of the conditions."

I don't have a problem with different names for each ebook, I use pen names myself for different niches, but I think I would have used different photos.

There's no difference at all between this example and yours of the person who is lying about his income, theimdude. People are being dishonest, but there are dishonest people in all walks of life.

I think there are still many people out there who think that online information products are scams. I hate to see people perpetuating that opinion, and making it harder for others who are selling legitimate products that do solve people's problems.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way to regulate this.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by havplenty

A universal problem such as acne would have garnered the commercial interest of drug companies a long time ago, who would then in turn invest millions in research in finding some sort of solution.

Preferably an expensive one that you have to buy over and over for the rest of your life.

OH WAIT, WE HAVE THOSE!

Incentives. Look to the incentives.

[Nightowl]

A browse through Google turned up this press release from the Attorney General's office:

Washington Attorney General claims Aussie pair became rich using sexy stories to sell bogus cures

As to what the couple were selling, here is an example from the PR:

'Washington’s complaint alleges that the defendants created numerous Web sites, many showcasing a fictitious testimonial from someone supposedly living in Seattle. Many of the sites used sexual innuendos to grab attention, with headlines such as: “Sex Crazed 60 Year Old Reveals a Simple Home Treatment that Eliminates Fibromyalgia in Days.” Others took a more maternal approach: “39 Year Old Mom Stumbles Upon a Simple 5 Step Plan That Eliminates Multiple Sclerosis in Weeks.”'

As to what was in the books:

'Henderson said the “cures” were actually e-Books containing a few facts about the relevant disease and instructions to consume either something called “Miracle Mineral Solution” or a concoction of apple cider vinegar and baking soda as part of an extreme diet.'

Nice people, eh?

- Nightowl

[ksmike]

Big government to the rescue. Let's ban ephedra because a few people misused the product, didn't follow the instructions, and died...

But it's okay to sell Tylenol which kills over 30,000 people every year for the same reason.

Makes sense if you own stock in the big pharmaceutical company. But not if you were the poor bloke who was losing weight with the proper use of ephedra.

Oh well.

[TedMarlett]

Audrey,

Thanks so much for the post. I really do think these people with the type of crap information they sell should be taken offline.

havplenty: At some stage information products should face the 'merchantable quality' test that every other good or service is subjected to.

Okay so exactly who is going to do this? There is so much misinformation out on the market today that no-one can find all the "bad" stuff. And how many people actually have the power to knock someone offline and make sure they stay offline with their dishonest offers and misinformation?

Too many people are out to make a buck and this is what happens even though we do have this offline also. The problem is that we don't know who the physical person is doing this most times and many are very hard to track down.

I am glad to see that Washington State has worked to set an example of this type of selling.

[selcor]

scary thing is i've been to some sites like what they talk about in the article and have always wondered if they are ligit, especially when you see the same company name on a whole range of different topics or illnesses...

[ramone_johnny]

Could this potentially hurt all of us? I mean, wouldnt this only solidify mistrust within the ebook/infomarketing industry amongst the general population?

[Barbara Eyre]

The news story doesn't load for me tonight (@&^%$# internet) so I can't comment a whole lot. But from it seems, if you sell ebooks on medical conditions of any kind ... you need to do a lot of fact checking on both the author of the ebook (or creator of the product), make sure all featured testimonials are true, etc .... a CYA type of thing before you market the product.

Which is something we all should be doing anyhow to begin with.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by ksmike

Let's ban ephedra because a few people misused the product, didn't follow the instructions, and died...

Not exactly. Ephedra is a twitchy thing - individual metabolism and tolerance vary so dramatically, and people's health awareness is such crap, that even if you DID follow the directions it might be very, very bad for you. It belongs under a doctor's care and control, provided you can afford one who doesn't just parrot what the drug companies tell him.

There are also some really effective ways to lose weight by directly manipulating T3 and T4 hormones, but if you screw it up you will cook your thyroid and end up seriously screwed. T3/T4 and ephedra belong on a sizeable list of things the general public should just. Not. Touch.

Unless you want to develop a rudimentary education in endocrinology, that is. It's really not rocket science, if the only thing you care about is your own endocrine function.

[theimdude]

Originally Posted by Audrey Harvey

There's no difference at all between this example and yours of the person who is lying about his income, theimdude. People are being dishonest, but there are dishonest people in all walks of life.

My brother refuses to buy anything on the internet as he say all ebooks is no good. He wont even use Paypal. He made in interesting statement the other day saying that he is get frustrated with searching for information on the net as all you get is some page with a story (the page he showed me was a ezinearticle.com page) and then they want to sell you something. If he thinks this way many others do.

So much for article marketing.If we frustrate people the we doing something wrong. I use UAW and you can add videos and pictures to your articles so maybey that is the way to go.

On the testomonies side it was not until I found this forum that I learned how people got there testimonies for a new product so from now on I disregard testimonies completely on any product site.

[HeySal]

I wouldn't trust info from someone who uses fraudulent methods to sell anything.
However - the "authorities are often quick to call anything "quack" that isn't a pharm dealt drug. But look at what THEY use - benzyol peroxide is on both the US and UK
MSDS sheets - as a harmful and dangerous chemical. The US MSDS is a bit soft on it - the UK MSDS says it promotes cancer. Yet nobody is being sued for sticking it into products that cause reactions in a high percentage of cases. It's a pharmaceutical, of course. I know 2 natural ingredients that can clear up acne problems real fast for almost anyone I've shown it to and nobody has ever screamed for money back. But to put them in my book I have to have a disclaimer that the information in the book is only for informational purposes and not meant to perscribe treatment, yadda yadda yadda.........Just because I'm not a pharmaceutical dealer. I don't think it's going to be long before any information - factual or not that is not given straight from the pharmaceutical/med complex is going to be illegal.

Theimdude - not everyone uses phony testimonies. It's just because some do that the real ones don't mean anything.

[theimdude]

Originally Posted by HeySal

Theimdude - not everyone uses phony testimonies. It's just because some do that the real ones don't mean anything.

I agree but since I have found out how easy it is to get a testimony especially in the IM market I have been turning a blind eye on them. I rather buy the product and judge it myself.

[TPFLegionaire]

Originally Posted by havplenty

The cure for Acne, which has been a major problem for people for ages is not going to suddenly emerge in a $67 ebook (which by the way is priced so high to entice affiliates) on Clickbank. A universal problem such as acne would have garnered the commercial interest of drug companies a long time ago, who would then in turn invest millions in research in finding some sort of solution. If they (drug companies) haven't been able to find some sort of one-time-fix for acne, what are the chances of some author sitting in a back room with Clickbank aspirations doing it? I hope you see my point.

I am firm believer in enterprise, but there must be something in place to ensure that people who sell stuff don't dupe people out of their money with false promises.

Ha...Ha...HA! You have a very benign view of the Pharma industry . Do you really believe that Pharma has any interest of curing anything so trivial as acne? When they can make billions selling you something that will take care acne symptoms as long as you apply it....

Come on...Bottom line is...as far as I am concerned

you have acne ---> you see a book purporting to have the cure---> you buy it knowing that you have 60 days to get your money back ----> you apply the cure---->it works!---->hoorah! or ----->it doesn't work for whatever reason (including you not applying the cure)-----> you get a refund-----> you try something else.

now I do agree with you on one point 67$ is too much considering the target market(teenagers) ... Personaly, if I was selling my own ACNE ebook, I would price it at under 10$ and would use a purchase by phone (premium message) as my main payment mechanism.

Press Release: Over Fifty Million Consumers to Pay for Every-day Goods and Services via Mobile Phone by 2011, According to Juniper Research
SMSWebCash

[BIG Mike]

Selling anything in a heavily regulated industry is high risk. Doesn't matter if you outsource the reasearch and creation of the product - if you make unproven claims (proof is needed from the regulating body), you can pretty much assume that sooner or later you're going to be busted for it.

And don't think for a moment that by incorporating or setting up an offshore company you'll be safe from criminal and/or civil penalties. You're not - even with disclaimers about the product.

The simple fact is, some industries are regulated for good reason - whether you agree or disagree, the risk is still there for you. That's why I wouldn't touch the health market with a ten foot pole.

[Richard Tunnah]

It amazed me recently the number of medical ebooks on clickbank that made what I consider either plain wrong claims or close to the line claims - you know the ones that hint you can be cured from some long term illness by reading their ebook. I do wonder how long many of these type of ebooks will last (and they shouldn't last!). I see these no different than a ponzi scheme - making money regardless of the ethnics.
Oh I must also balance this post by saying their are also many great ebooks on clickbank.

Rich

[Martin Luxton]

From what I've read they were doing two things wrong

1. Lying in their promotions and using false testimonials.

2. Promising a cure.

The solution is simple. Either avoid the health market (@BigMike) or be honest and just offer people real life examples of people who were helped (not cured) by the remedies you suggest.

For example, adult acne. It's not sexy, but I know from personal experience that cutting out sugar and fast food and eating lots of fresh fruit and veg can improve the condition greatly. Find medical studies into the condition and use modifying language like

"results from experiments in America suggest . . . "

and put a link at the end of the ebook to the experiment.

I agree with HeySal and CDarklock about chemical treatments. I have a friend who was almost killed by mainstream acne treatment (apparently the side effect that caused it is not infrequent).

Martin

[snapper]

IMdude posted that he purchased the diabetes book and it helped him. My father has a similar experience...he is a diabetic and tried the 'remedy', albeit half heartedly. He is insulin dependant and dropped his insulin intake by 30%. Therefore if the product works and the company is reputable, what is the problem.

The problem with the couple mentioned is they seemed to be doing dishonest things (false testimonies) and making false claims...and any site should be shut down no matter what niche if they are being dishonest.

So I wonder if it is just because health is so emotive that we are talking about this or is there no room for health ebooks online?

[ijohnson]

Snapper,

I agree with you -- the dishonest sellers should have their site shut down. You shouldn't penalize the entire internet marketing industry because we have a few (or a bushel) of BAD apples!

One of my mentors, Steve Weber, stresses the 3 essentials of a successful internet marketing business: (1) traffic, (2) value and (3) TRUST! You must have all three to make things work, successfully.

And, as always, BUYER BEWARE!

[Lewis Leake]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Selling anything in a heavily regulated industry is high risk. Doesn't matter if you outsource the reasearch and creation of the product - if you make unproven claims (proof is needed from the regulating body), you can pretty much assume that sooner or later you're going to be busted for it.

And don't think for a moment that by incorporating or setting up an offshore company you'll be safe from criminal and/or civil penalties. You're not - even with disclaimers about the product.

The simple fact is, some industries are regulated for good reason - whether you agree or disagree, the risk is still there for you. That's why I wouldn't touch the health market with a ten foot pole.

That's the very reason that I closed all of my health websites.

[edhan]

I believe when we do business online, we have to be honest. That way, your business will last for a long time.

It is bad to give promises that are not true. Personally for health products, I am cautious and I do take quite a fair bit of supplements. I normally consult doctors and pharmacies before I go and buy health products.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

From what I've read they were doing two things wrong

1. Lying in their promotions and using false testimonials.

2. Promising a cure.

That was the impression I got too. It is not the content of the books they went after, but the marketing.

There is a book publisher that I know of that has been publishing what could be considered "quack medicine" books for over 50 years. They're still in business. The difference is that they don't market the books as cures. They offer them strictly for informational purposes.

And, it's not one of those things where they say "Here's a cure for acne but don't try this at home" where they market one way and try to use a disclaimer to cover themselves. I don't think that would fly either.

No, both their marketing and their disclaimers are, as far as I can tell, consistent.

For example, they might have a book written 50 years ago with a "cure" for the common cold. There is no medical value to the book because the "cure" doesn't work. But, there is historical and research value in the book. It may even be entertaining, depending how how ridiculous the cure might be. So, despite the content being completely wrong, the book can still be sold.

Now, so long as they sell it for informational, research, historical, etc. purposes, there's no problem as far as I know. But, if they started marketing the book as a cure for the common cold, then they would land themselves in trouble.

The bottom line is that what got the couple mentioned herein in trouble was not the content of their books but rather how those books were sold and marketed.

[Deek3870]

Reminds me alot of the Kevin Trudeau book and how the fda ahut him down with the Natural Cures book.

[JackPowers]

I don't know the product in question and I think many of these ebooks, acai etc., are just selling a dream.

BUT..!

It's naive to thing that big pharma would just release a 1 time cure of any disease. I know this sounds like a conspiracy theory, but there's much more money in 'treating' rather than 'curing'. This makes me sceptical of many drugs from the pharmacy industry.

There's a lot of great supplements out there, for example Beta-Glucan which is a huge booster for the immune system and cheap, yet it receives no attention because it isn't patented.

So, basically I see no difference between this and selling crap medicine. In fact I consider pharmacy such as the 'swine-flu' vaccine to be much more dangerous potentially.

[Whosyou]

First and foremost thanks for this thread; This is a really serious issue that goes way beyond just selling health info products online; What we are witnessing ( and have been witnessing over the last decade or so) is a systematic erosion of YOUR health freedom.

Ok Maybe a health info product work wonders for someone but does nothing for someone else but at least YOU had the choice to buy the product and investigate the info provided. If the regulatory authorities have the power to shut down anyone offering such info regardless of its usefulness then we are all in BIG TROUBLE. Where can you draw the line if the value of a product is determined subjectively?

If we get to the stage where the only place we can get health and nutritional information is the regulatory authorities we will have lost the right to make our own informed health decisions. - Because they will control the information.

To illustrate my point you need to look at the flip side of these regulatory authorities; On the surface they may look like they are there to protect us from fraudulent and bogus products and people. but. in reality (i believe )they are only here to protect the interests of the big Pharmaceutical company's that have a vested interest in making sure that YOU are NOT cured of your condition; IN THEIR EYES: A PATIENT CURED IS A CUSTOMER LOST.

If we all realised that A: We are not suffering from a deficiency of any one drug
B: Drugs are TOXIC in nature and have no place in the human body.
C: nature provides all we need in abundance

then we would realize that we have no need for these Authorities and companies on THIS PLANET.

There has always been frauds, Quacks, con men etc... ever since the day we were all enslaved into chasing Money for the best part of our lives, and there always will be. Its an inherent side effect of the system.

Youve got to use your god given ability to think logicaly and anaylyse things when considering purchasing anything because there are people out to con you in EVERY industry. This doesnt mean we want or need regulatry bodies in EVERY industry.

I don't want big brother deciding whats best for me. I would much rather be conned into buying a bogus info product than being conned into a lifetime of prescription drugs.

Just my 2cents

I was going to start to write my first e-book this weekend which was going to explore the relationship between diet and disease (something i am very passionate about if you hadn't noticed!) but after reading this thread i am not to sure now. I could be asking for a world of trouble from these Authorities.

The info it was going to contain was NOT quackery, (all tried and tested myself) but i realise; It may be great info but its NOT the sort of info the Big Pharma's and the Authorities would look favorably on. (for reasons stated above)

Good health to all.

[edhan]

When it comes to health, I believe one should be honest. Unless you have tested or have evidences that it is true, then promote it. Otherwise, I think you should think twice before doing so.

Guess when people are desperate and finding these so call 'cure' when make them try. I feel that it is bad to do so unless it is proven true. It is a matter of bad Karma for those who are doing so without having the knowledge of whether or not it can helps.