Why Do So Many People Think Anything With Marketing Has No Value?

Hi John,

No. In reference to the part you quoted, it seemed strange that the whole premise was about getting people to follow through with their purchases and take action, yet your posts were expressing the exact opposite. I sympathise with your hardships, but everyone has them - even those people who are struggling to create an online business - the ones that I was discussing.

If I point out the incongruence in that statement, am I calling you a liar?

I don't see it as being that absurd. If you were to immerse yourself in the forum community, you would quickly see that a majority of people at the lower end of the marketing spectrum regularly find themselves going back to examine purchases they have made, to try and work out how they missed so many things before they clicked buy.

They discover small print, hidden print, inconsistencies between the product description and the product actually delivered, hidden charges they never expected whacking their credit card and a whole host of other things I could drone on about.

THIS is ONE of the reasons why large IM launches come under such scrutiny. MOST top level IMers encourage lower level IMers to examine the sales process in depth. Are they supposed to remain tight lipped about all of this in public? Is it a taboo subject? Well if there is any kind of community within IM forums, then it is based around that - people telling others what to look out for in order to avoid getting burnt, wasting time etc.

Can you see why it's not so absurd? It's actually quite logical. I appreciate that it might not be very comfortable for those having their actions and work dissected, but surely that's what everyone takes on if they choose to become a 'public' figure and leverage that exposure for their own benefit?

The reason 'mass control' comes into it is because I find it absurd that people can buy a product from someone that teaches persuasion techniques, then a few months later, when that person is launching something else, people argue that they're not being 'persuaded' and that the person is acting out of altruism. That's not a criticism of Mr. Kern, it can only be a compliment towards his powers of persuasion.

But I hope you can see that aspects of the response to it are purely 'protective' - the type that you would expect in a 'community' environment. I'm not telling anyone to buy my products instead.

Well that's not my intention. If you remember, we had this conversation before, I took some of the ongoing 'rap' for being a hater and driving people like yourself away, and I did consequently spend some time avoiding most of the rows, negativity and attacks on top level IMers.

But as I explained above, as an active member here I felt compelled to respond, and my initial response was directly at lower level IMers and the way I felt they were behaving - in two camps - the ones I said were acting like sheep, and the ones I referred to as cohorts.

I too felt like not posting here as much after seeing the the normal functioning of the forum come to a virtual standstill while half the place ran to grovel to a group of people who had turned up out of the blue, while also attacking anyone who dared to disagree with the 'party line' of this group. New threads kept appearing on the subject and it seemed like everything else came to a halt, while 'anticipation' was being manufactured.

I understand your point, and I would repeat (as I said in the other thread) you seem like a decent, genuine person (especially in comparison to some of the others at 'the top').

But as you're bringing up the old 'because of you I might not bother coming here', I'm compelled to point out to you that it's not just a case of 'good guy top level IMers getting slammed by anonymous nobodies.'

There is an obvious clique of top level IMers who launch products together and often back each other up on this forum.

Some of this clique are a little more regular at visiting/posting than the others, and due to your (presumeably) less frequent visits, you might be missing the way that they behave and how it affects the way the 'clique' is viewed and treated by some of us.

You've got the 'cohorts', who are like chameleons and if there's a launch happening, you see a totally different side of them - not a pleasant side.

You've got guru A (no names) who comes in here on a regular basis with the most arrogant attitude of almost anyone on here - even me. I don't think I've ever seen him post without a belittling, condescending 'you're a loser' tone towards anyone who happens to criticise a guru.

And then there's 'clinging desperately onto his semi-guru status' guru B (no names) who has an epileptic fit if anyone criticises him, swears he will never come here again, then turns up again about a week later to produce the same performance again.

If anyone dares to ask about his product in the review forum, he hi-jacks the thread, has another fit, and if it doesn't go his way (it never does) he and his cohorts get the thread deleted.

My point - I admit that I let rip in this thread. But it's not just a one way thing. There are good reasons behind it, and on some of the points, I know that I am speaking for at least a few others with the points that I make.

(I'm also fully aware that now that this thread has resurfaced, there will be a whole bunch of people who totally disagree with me as well - such is life.)

The way that some people from the 'upper echelons' behave in their marketing and their forum posting, directly relates to the responses they get on here.

I don't think there's anyone who responds negatively towards top level IMers purely for kicks - there's always a reason, and the majority of the time I would wager that it is related to them spending money on a product and the resultant buyer's remorse that they felt which was NOT purely down to their own gullability or stupidity - they felt deceived or conned.

This money is investment money for their business, which may be in short supply, and it's directly related to them hoping to achieve their dreams and aspirations. If someone invests four figures in a course, they are obviously hoping that it is life changing for them. If they end up disappointed, can you not understand where their anger comes from? I can.

Thanks for your reasonable response to some harsh criticisms. It actually makes quite a difference to see that and is appreciated.