Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus

trader_stuart · 08-30-2009, 06:44 AM

Maybe it's just me (and I have bought the product) but the following text taken directly from the sales page is not playing fair IMHO:

---
And if you go ahead and buy Keyword Elite 2.0 right now...

You get SEO Elite FREE, as a part of your 30 day trial to the Search Marketing Elite club!

($167 Value!)
---

What I've actually received is 1 months free access to Search Marketing Elite (which costs $39/month to be a member) and my copy of SEO Elite will stop working when my membership expires.

On the other hand if I purchase SEO Elite outright it will cost me $167 and never expires.

Rather a big difference between the value of what I'm told I'm getting and what I actually get don't you think? And it's not an oversight because this bonus was pushed pretty heavily as part of the official email campaign.

It's one of the reasons I didn't hesitate too long before buying, and I can't find anything in the sales letter that explicitly says SEO Elite only works whilst you're still a member, you only determine that by reading between the lines so to speak.

Not that I'm planning on asking for a refund or anything but is this acceptable practice?

Steven Wagenheim · 08-30-2009, 06:56 AM

Just another reason why I hate product launches.

:sigh:

Scott Ames · 08-30-2009, 06:59 AM

I read the copy... it shouldn't expire in my opinion. Not the way it reads.

Quote:

*** A FREE copy of my SEO Elite software! (Value: $167)
SEO Elite costs $167 to buy on its own, and it's the go to SEO tool for SEO pros all over the world. This thing can provide you with EVERY piece of information you need to drive any site to the #1 spot, whatever your niche.
Get SEO Elite FREE!

And if you go ahead and buy Keyword Elite 2.0 right now...

You get SEO Elite FREE, as a part of your 30 day trial to the Search Marketing Elite club!

($167 value)

Are you sure? If so I would open a ticket and see what they say. It could be that someone messed up.

trader_stuart · 08-30-2009, 07:04 AM

I have already opened a ticket. To be honest that is how I found out that it expires, not by working out from the sales copy!?!

I didn't believe the first response I got from my support ticket so I pointed out to them as you suggest and the reply I got back was

---

When you make the purchase of KE 2.0, you do see that SEO Elite is included inside your 30 day trial membership to Search Marketing Elite. So, if you cancel that subscription, you do lose the SEO Elite functionality as well

We apologise for any misunderstanding
I hope this response was helpful.

Scott Ames · 08-30-2009, 07:11 AM

Well that sucks. They messed up... that's not what it says at all. If that's the case its not a $167 value.

Lance K · 08-30-2009, 07:14 AM

It says somewhere that the copy of SEO elite launches within the membership area of the Search Marketing Elite club. Not sure at which part of the process though. It may be after payment is already made.

Brad doesn't seem like the deceiving type. I'd guess he'll change it if people find it confusing. He's somewhat active here at WF. Why not shoot him a PM before you kick him in public?

trader_stuart · 08-30-2009, 07:30 AM

You do have a point but I did wait before I received confirmation from 2 different people on his support team before I went public.

There may be some confusion about how SEO Elite works with the membership but that to me is a separate issue to the $167 value claim which is my main objection.

Jermaine Tabor · 08-30-2009, 08:02 AM

Hopefully he will clear this up. Brad is a pretty good guy since I've known of him and I've never know him to deceive anyone.

Kay King · 08-30-2009, 08:42 AM

It's not just you - and I don't think they messed up, either. By the time the reader gets to the "provision" the word "FREE" is firmly fixed in his mind. Then the limitation is not read exactly as stated but "interpreted to mean...." by the reader. Pretty smart!

Think how carefully copy must be crafted to appear to offer "FREE, FREE, FREE" a piece of expensive software while also factually stating the bonus is tied to an upsell "as part of".

The ad isn't deceptive - it carefully phrases the conditional terms of getting a big bonus while using the bonus offer for max attention.

kay

mar1on · 08-30-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kay King

It's not just you - and I don't think they messed up, either. By the time the reader gets to the "provision" the word "FREE" is firmly fixed in his mind. Then the limitation is not read exactly as stated but "interpreted to mean...." by the reader. Pretty smart!

Think how carefully copy must be crafted to appear to offer "FREE, FREE, FREE" a piece of expensive software while also factually stating the bonus is tied to an upsell "as part of".

The ad isn't deceptive - it carefully phrases the conditional terms of getting a big bonus while using the bonus offer for max attention.

kay

Exactly - It's clear as day when you read it carefully. Pretty smart way to sell a second product on the same sales page.

mohammad111 · 08-30-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

You get SEO Elite FREE, as a part of your 30 day trial to the Search Marketing Elite club!

I think that the wording of this sentence explains this itself.

You get SEO Elite FREE as a "part" of your 30 day trial

so it means that SEO Elite ends with your trial but I don't blame you for that. If I were you I would have fallen in this too.

I guess you can go ahead and ask for a refund because it's no use to you once the trial expires.

corporation · 08-30-2009, 11:46 AM

If, usually, You can get a piece of software for $167 that never expires and someone tells you that you can have that piece of software bundled with a 30 day trial somethingelse: the trial somethingelse will expire after 30 days: but the piece of software will not! Or they have to tell you that that is not a full piece of software but only a shareware expiring after 30 days (and being that they can't claim that is a $167 software).
IMHO!
Ciao
Enrico

Julian Lockhart · 08-30-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corporation

If, usually, You can get a piece of software for $167 that never expires and someone tells you that you can have that piece of software bundled with a 30 day trial somethingelse: the trial somethingelse will expire after 30 days: but the piece of software will not! Or they have to tell you that that is not a full piece of software but only a shareware expiring after 30 days (and being that they can't claim that is a $167 software).
IMHO!
Ciao
Enrico

]

What confuses is me it that I had a affiliate sale for seo elite for like 47.00 bucks a few weeks ago.

Must of had a price increase.

Andyhenry · 08-30-2009, 12:13 PM

The owner of this software is a Warrior - have you tried PMing him for a response?

I know a lot of marketers are using this type of forced continuity model because it gets more sales, but I'm sure feedback about negative experiences are something they would take seriously.

Andy

trader_stuart · 08-30-2009, 07:14 PM

I have not tried PMing Brad. I did not think of that up front and now that I have started this thread I think I'll just leave it at that.

I just wanted to bring this to other marketers opinions and see what the consensus was.

Mind you if the dollar value was stated as $39 (or insert real value here) instead of the claimed $167 then I would not have raised this in the first place.

Here's a hypothetical for you: Imagine you bought a new home and the company stated you would also get a FREE car (worth $20,000) as part of a promotion. After you've moved into your new home you read the fine print to find what you've actually got is only 1 months free rental of that car. I know I've raised the stakes with the dollar amounts but the principal is the same. Would you applaud the company for their marketing smarts or would you be a tad peeved? ;-)

CDarklock · 08-30-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Ames

I read the copy... it shouldn't expire in my opinion. Not the way it reads.

It's weasely.

"You get SEO Elite FREE, as a part of your 30 day trial to the Search Marketing Elite club!"

From an ethics perspective, and as far as the FTC is concerned, that counts.

It's still weasely. You've been misled, and it was deliberate. I don't approve.

Lance K · 08-30-2009, 10:26 PM

Regardless of intent and/or execution, my question is this...

Why is the bonus determining how you feel about your purchase of KE2? If you put KE2 to use, you should easily bank enough that it'll pay for itself as well as the entire year of Search Marketing Elite club.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dig deceptive ads (not saying this particular one is either). BUT, when people navigate to the KE2 sales page, presumably, they are looking to buy a keyword research tool. Allowing a bonus to affect your buying decision defeats the original purpose of the visit to the site.

It's a bonus. Once you start treating it as your basis for the transaction, you've already done yourself a great disservice.

Dexx · 08-30-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDarklock

It's weasely.

"You get SEO Elite FREE, as a part of your 30 day trial to the Search Marketing Elite club!"

From an ethics perspective, and as far as the FTC is concerned, that counts.

I think to be "honest" the wording should say:

"You get FREE access to SEO ELITE, as a part of your 30 day trial to the Search Marketing Elite club!"

either FREE access or FREE trial, but not just FREE, FREE implies no strings attached to the thing that is free, as in freedom from restrictions right...

In my opinion at least.

diggy20 · 08-30-2009, 11:56 PM

Another thing I found a little shady about the Keyword Elite 2 launch. One of the bonuses you supposedly get is a "free" membership to My Article Network. Maybe I overlooked it, but I don't think the bonus page specified what that meant. Anyway, I contacted support and all it is a 14 day free trial to MAN. A little lame if you ask me.

James Blair · 08-31-2009, 01:10 AM

Very deceptive in my opinion. I purchased too and I thought the same thing about the SEO Elite bonus, that the software wasn't contingent upon your membership that is. I don't plan on refunding anyway but that's not the point here.

I don't have anything against "forced continuity" either, but I do think the terms should be clearly stated.

IMHO He knew what he was doing when he created that sales letter, or had it created then read over it or whatever. I love keyword elite and seo elite as well but that was out of line.

Just my opinion..

08-30-2009, 06:44 AM	#1
trader_stuart HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: , , Australia. Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus Maybe it's just me (and I have bought the product) but the following text taken directly from the sales page is not playing fair IMHO: --- And if you go ahead and buy Keyword Elite 2.0 right now... You get SEO Elite FREE, as a part of your 30 day trial to the Search Marketing Elite club! ($167 Value!) --- What I've actually received is 1 months free access to Search Marketing Elite (which costs $39/month to be a member) and my copy of SEO Elite will stop working when my membership expires. On the other hand if I purchase SEO Elite outright it will cost me $167 and never expires. Rather a big difference between the value of what I'm told I'm getting and what I actually get don't you think? And it's not an oversight because this bonus was pushed pretty heavily as part of the official email campaign. It's one of the reasons I didn't hesitate too long before buying, and I can't find anything in the sales letter that explicitly says SEO Elite only works whilst you're still a member, you only determine that by reading between the lines so to speak. Not that I'm planning on asking for a refund or anything but is this acceptable practice?
	Tired of getting in your own way? http://www.selfsabotagestop.com Last edited by trader_stuart; 08-30-2009 at 06:51 AM. Reason: Rewording

08-30-2009, 06:56 AM	#2
Steven Wagenheim Article Marketing Wiz War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Roselle, NJ, USA Posts: 13,262 Blog Entries: 11 Thanks: 515 Thanked 2,887 Times in 904 Posts Social Networking	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus Just another reason why I hate product launches. :sigh:
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08-30-2009, 07:04 AM	#4
trader_stuart HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: , , Australia. Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus I have already opened a ticket. To be honest that is how I found out that it expires, not by working out from the sales copy!?! I didn't believe the first response I got from my support ticket so I pointed out to them as you suggest and the reply I got back was --- When you make the purchase of KE 2.0, you do see that SEO Elite is included inside your 30 day trial membership to Search Marketing Elite. So, if you cancel that subscription, you do lose the SEO Elite functionality as well We apologise for any misunderstanding I hope this response was helpful.
	Tired of getting in your own way? http://www.selfsabotagestop.com

08-30-2009, 07:11 AM	#5
Scott Ames I'm getting fat War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: West of Rockies Posts: 4,808 Thanks: 194 Thanked 304 Times in 168 Posts	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus Well that sucks. They messed up... that's not what it says at all. If that's the case its not a $167 value.
	http://www.kiva.org/

08-30-2009, 07:14 AM	#6
Lance K Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 3,053 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 627 Thanked 266 Times in 191 Posts Contact Info	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus It says somewhere that the copy of SEO elite launches within the membership area of the Search Marketing Elite club. Not sure at which part of the process though. It may be after payment is already made. Brad doesn't seem like the deceiving type. I'd guess he'll change it if people find it confusing. He's somewhat active here at WF. Why not shoot him a PM before you kick him in public?
	Lance

08-30-2009, 07:30 AM	#7
trader_stuart HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: , , Australia. Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus You do have a point but I did wait before I received confirmation from 2 different people on his support team before I went public. There may be some confusion about how SEO Elite works with the membership but that to me is a separate issue to the $167 value claim which is my main objection.
	Tired of getting in your own way? http://www.selfsabotagestop.com

08-30-2009, 08:02 AM	#8
Jermaine Tabor Advanced Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Georgia , USA. Posts: 839 Thanks: 19 Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus Hopefully he will clear this up. Brad is a pretty good guy since I've known of him and I've never know him to deceive anyone.

08-30-2009, 08:42 AM	#9
Kay King Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Gulf Coast, USA. Posts: 11,314 Thanks: 296 Thanked 736 Times in 451 Posts	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus It's not just you - and I don't think they messed up, either. By the time the reader gets to the "provision" the word "FREE" is firmly fixed in his mind. Then the limitation is not read exactly as stated but "interpreted to mean...." by the reader. Pretty smart! Think how carefully copy must be crafted to appear to offer "FREE, FREE, FREE" a piece of expensive software while also factually stating the bonus is tied to an upsell "as part of". The ad isn't deceptive - it carefully phrases the conditional terms of getting a big bonus while using the bonus offer for max attention. kay

08-30-2009, 11:46 AM	#12
corporation Active Warrior Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus If, usually, You can get a piece of software for $167 that never expires and someone tells you that you can have that piece of software bundled with a 30 day trial somethingelse: the trial somethingelse will expire after 30 days: but the piece of software will not! Or they have to tell you that that is not a full piece of software but only a shareware expiring after 30 days (and being that they can't claim that is a $167 software). IMHO! Ciao Enrico
	Quit Smoking the Enrico's Way Monitor Your Paid Link: set and forget Linkguardians.com Download Page Protector: download it for Free (if you're able to) http://www.DownloadPageProtector.info/full_download.php

08-30-2009, 12:13 PM	#14
Andyhenry Beware - Straight Talker War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5,953 Blog Entries: 16 Thanks: 221 Thanked 1,487 Times in 355 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus The owner of this software is a Warrior - have you tried PMing him for a response? I know a lot of marketers are using this type of forced continuity model because it gets more sales, but I'm sure feedback about negative experiences are something they would take seriously. Andy
	Twitter With Me - Andy on Twitter Turn To Andy - marketing, blogging and success info shared openly.

08-30-2009, 07:14 PM	#15
trader_stuart HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: , , Australia. Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus I have not tried PMing Brad. I did not think of that up front and now that I have started this thread I think I'll just leave it at that. I just wanted to bring this to other marketers opinions and see what the consensus was. Mind you if the dollar value was stated as $39 (or insert real value here) instead of the claimed $167 then I would not have raised this in the first place. Here's a hypothetical for you: Imagine you bought a new home and the company stated you would also get a FREE car (worth $20,000) as part of a promotion. After you've moved into your new home you read the fine print to find what you've actually got is only 1 months free rental of that car. I know I've raised the stakes with the dollar amounts but the principal is the same. Would you applaud the company for their marketing smarts or would you be a tad peeved? ;-)
	Tired of getting in your own way? http://www.selfsabotagestop.com

08-30-2009, 10:26 PM	#17
Lance K Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 3,053 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 627 Thanked 266 Times in 191 Posts Contact Info	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus Regardless of intent and/or execution, my question is this... Why is the bonus determining how you feel about your purchase of KE2? If you put KE2 to use, you should easily bank enough that it'll pay for itself as well as the entire year of Search Marketing Elite club. Don't get me wrong, I don't dig deceptive ads (not saying this particular one is either). BUT, when people navigate to the KE2 sales page, presumably, they are looking to buy a keyword research tool. Allowing a bonus to affect your buying decision defeats the original purpose of the visit to the site. It's a bonus. Once you start treating it as your basis for the transaction, you've already done yourself a great disservice.
	Lance

08-30-2009, 11:56 PM	#19
diggy20 HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 104 Thanks: 2 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus Another thing I found a little shady about the Keyword Elite 2 launch. One of the bonuses you supposedly get is a "free" membership to My Article Network. Maybe I overlooked it, but I don't think the bonus page specified what that meant. Anyway, I contacted support and all it is a 14 day free trial to MAN. A little lame if you ask me.
	Try AffiliIT for free for 7 days!

08-31-2009, 01:10 AM	#20
James Blair HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: , , USA. Posts: 117 Thanks: 8 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Keyword Elite and the not so $167 value bonus Very deceptive in my opinion. I purchased too and I thought the same thing about the SEO Elite bonus, that the software wasn't contingent upon your membership that is. I don't plan on refunding anyway but that's not the point here. I don't have anything against "forced continuity" either, but I do think the terms should be clearly stated. IMHO He knew what he was doing when he created that sales letter, or had it created then read over it or whatever. I love keyword elite and seo elite as well but that was out of line. Just my opinion..
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