I kinda noticed that MLM is not that respected here... Is it true?

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

And what does that prove? It doesn't disprove Josh's posts. The FACT of the matter is that most people don't make money in ANY business due to a myriad of factors. Nor does it change the fact that the average mlm earner still earns LESS than the average job earner. Nor does it change the perception of the mlm industry. And with good reason. Between the IRS, Dateline, and more than one large accounting firm, MOST people in network marketing don't make squat. As a ten year mlm veteran I can attest to that.

Hi Rod...

Your 10 years would be about 20 years less than mine... and in those
30 years I've found that what you say is pretty much true... but the point
is that what you say is pretty much true for any business.

Comparing what average people make in business to what average people
make in jobs is a ridiculous comparison.... although I know most people who
start a business really know almost nothing about business and have done
little more than create a job they own. The barrier to entry is low and we
all know that what's easy to do is also easy to not do.

Owning a business is about opportunity... not security... and that's why
most people make little, or no, money in any work at home type business.

We see it on this forum daily... people who buy into the promise of
instant wealth on the internet but have no clue about the level of desire,
skill and commitment that will be required to achieve those goals.

Network marketing... MLM... is no different. I've long said that the vast
majority of people who join network marketing companies shouldn't... at least
unless they're willing to learn the skills and have the discipline to apply them
on a consistent daily basis.

I know there are many who will sign up anyone who can fog a mirror.
I'm not one of those people. I'm not trying to convince anyone... I'm
looking for those who are looking for freedom and are willing to do the
work necessary for achieving it.

That requires training... discipline... knowledge... vision.

So... yes... most of the money is earned by a few. Again... no different
than any other business.

The only question in my mind is will you be one of the many or one of
the few. It's always your choice.

Tsnyder

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by dv8

Haha, feisty in the morning I see!

"We aim to please".

Originally Posted by dv8

Let's accept that I accept the fact that you accept that we both accept pretty much the same viewpoints on MLM and IM. Is that acceptable?

I can accept that, just as I'm sure you accept whatever the hell it was I originally said somewhere on the previous page. Tsnyder is right, anyway, and this is probably the point. Or at least a significant part of it.

[Tsnyder]

Owning a business is about opportunity... not security... and that's why
most people make little, or no, money in any work at home type business.

That quote is from my post above... I want to expand on that thought.

The truth is most people opt for a job because they buy into
the notion that jobs provide security.

I think anyone who's followed the news during the past few months
should know better... millions of people have lost jobs through no fault
for their own... along with that job loss went the security they were
banking on.

In my view the only security you will ever enjoy will be the security
you create for yourself. There are many vehicles for creating that security.

Network marketing is one of those vehicles.

Tsnyder

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by JustinHart

im not a fan of mlm personally, it is too misleading and doesn't build any equity.

MLM is not misleading... some of the people who promote it are.

How is that different than what we see on this forum every day?

Equity? Define equity for me in business terms... I cash checks
every month from a company I haven't actively worked with since
the mid 90's.

Is that equity? I call it residual income but I can sell it whenever
I choose. Sounds like equity to me.

Tsnyder

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by rbecgolf

Never really liked approaching my friends and using that relationship to get them to make money for me.

Me either... training is a wonderful thing.

Tsnyder

[kenjitay]

Originally Posted by RankOne

even many people says its a scam... there's a lot of people attract too join MLM..

Well... MLM is not exactly a scam. Depending on the distribution system.

To simplify it, MLM is just a distribution model using "word of mouth" advertising. As such, it is said to save a lot of advertising cost - does that sound like buzz marketing ?

However, MLM products are expensive because instaed of using these money for "advertising", they use them to pay distributors and research "break through" products. This very much up the cost of MLM product and being a distributor.

So.. if you do not make money by finding enough downline, and you have no use for the product.. you are not making money.. and you drop out. But the question again is... what are the people doing in "distributing" the products and finding potential home business owners as downlines... I mean... most fail because they try to sell "salt to a snail"

Like IM membership, if you don't find the membership useful... you don't pay every month to subscribe. In addition, you cannot sell IM products to people who simply don't believe in making money online. This is the line most MLMers cross that dooms them..

If its hype about getting rich quick.. they got it for free... no business in the world can succeed without effort and planning..

In short, MLM is not a scam, when people fail, they procrastinate, tarnishing its name.. because MLM is joined by the very wrong people in the first place...

It is all about marketing and being an Serious business owner...

Regards
Kenji

[Mr McDonald]

Iam all for MLM if its a legal well managed set up. Firstly you need to choose your product carefully. Try to avoid the saturated market. The best way is to find a company which has been in the business for quite some years now and is quite reputable.
The MLM network marketing opportunity can help you to earn quite a large amount of money...... If done correctly and honesly.

[Jack Bastide]

In Internet Marketing terms:

MLM is a Multi tiered Affiliate Program with a Built
in Continuity Program

Done Correctly, with a Great Product that people
really want, MLM is a very powerful way to make
money

But the main thing you have to ask is this ...

Does the product stand on its own?

Would I still buy the product without the
Opportunity to make money?

If the answer is yes you have a winner

Are their Sleazy annoying people in MLM?

Absolutely

Are their Sleazy annoying people in Internet Marketing?

No!! they are all saints who only have your best interest
at heart

You REALLY DO need that Shiny new $997 Product thats
the greatest thing since sliced bread .. until Next week when
theirs ANOTHER launch

One thing about MLMErs is they are products of their product

they are actually USING their product as well as promoting it

the same can't always be said about IM Affiliates

Jack

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by rbecgolf

Never really liked approaching my friends and using that relationship to get them to make money for me.

Nope, for most people that's a terrible way of doing network marketing (and that makes it largely non-duplicable anyway, even for those wanting to try it) - and one which most really successful network marketers wouldn't touch, or teach. I think it worked to some extent in the 1960's.

Most of the people who believe in and try to duplicate warm market prospecting, just like most of the people who believe in and try to duplicate online approaches to prospecting "virtual leads", and "funded proposals", are among MLM's undeniably many failures. In all walks of life and all business models, there are and will always be people who "just don't get it" - and some of them repeatedly so.

[Robyn8243]

Originally Posted by dv8

I don't see a problem with this as long as the person "recruiting" is honest with people that there is a very good chance they make not make any money with the program.

You have just hit on the very problem with the MLM industry...

Money is mostly made by recruiting people based on premise that anyone can make money by duplicating the EASY, ANYONE CAN DO THIS system.

It's simply not true...but almost nobody who is making money is doing it by being honest about this.

"Join my downline, but there is a 97-99% chance you will fail."

And if you are in the 1-3% who succeed, what that means is that you are successful at recruiting others, knowing that 97% of those you recruit will end up worse off financially than before you met.

If people were upfront about the likelihood of success PLUS the amount of time and effort and money it takes to achieve success in MLM, almost nobody would join.

While legitimate MLMs may have been designed with good intentions, without "sales" to the 97% who will fail to make money, these companies could not stay in business.

My guess is that most if not all MLMs could not survive if "personal use" purchases were not made. How many could survive on sales to non distributor customers
only?

Robyn

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by Robyn8243

My guess is that most if not all MLMs could not survive if "personal use" purchases were not made. How many could survive on sales to non distributor customers only?

I agree with you. But maybe we'll eventually find out, if the FTC, AG's and courts gradually get more keen on enforcing the "70% rule", of which they've been showing some signs?

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by Robyn8243

You have just hit on the very problem with the MLM industry...

Money is mostly made by recruiting people based on premise that anyone can make money by duplicating the EASY, ANYONE CAN DO THIS system.

It's simply not true...but almost nobody who is making money is doing it by being honest about this.

"Join my downline, but there is a 97-99% chance you will fail."

And if you are in the 1-3% who succeed, what that means is that you are successful at recruiting others, knowing that 97% of those you recruit will end up worse off financially than before you met.

You couldn't be more wrong. The odds of becoming successful with
MLM... or ANY business... are either 100% or ZERO. You assume that
because some fantasy % of people fail (whatever that means) that the
same % of all new participants must also fail.

That's nonsense.

My point is that it's an individual thing. If I join a company... and I recently
did join another one... my chances for success are 100% because I know what
I'm doing and have a proven track record.

If I didn't know what I was doing and was unwilling to learn... and was unwilling
to do the work... my chances for success would be ZERO.

See how that works?

My guess is that most if not all MLMs could not survive if "personal use" purchases were not made. How many could survive on sales to non distributor customers
only?

Robyn

Your guess would be wrong. Nutrilite (Amway) is the biggest selling brand of
nutritional supplements ON THE PLANET. Avon (if I'm not mistaken) is the biggest
selling brand of cosmetics ON THE PLANET. (if not, it's Mary Kay). PrePaid Legal
Services sells tens of thousands of legal protection plans to non-distributors ever
year. (listed on the NYSE btw). The list goes on and on and on...

The problem is most people's experience with MLM has been with their Uncle Joe
or Cousin Jimmy who have never owned a business in their lives and really have no
clue how a business actually operates successfully. So they all fail and blame it on
everything but themselves.

If I wanted to know something about earning money on the internet I think I
might seek out one of the experienced, knowledgeable, successful Warriors to
teach me... not Frankie from down the street who just put up his first site
last Tuesday.

Tsnyder

[thunderbird]

People here make legitimate points that most people fail in any kind of self-employment enterprise. Commission-based sales gigs that are door to door, person to person or business to business, are not something most people do well at. It demands self-motivation, self imposed deadlines and schedules. It will likely involve taking a fair amount of abuse (of course, varying degrees of psychological abuse happen in most jobs).

MLMs are not an easy way to make money for most people, nor are most other business models. To be fair, it can certainly be argued that every human enterprise, even charity, ultimately depends on sales, being able to effectively promote something enough for people to part with their money for it.

It can also be argued that while deception occurs in MLMs, it also occurs in almost all business models. Having been involved in merchant marketing for a while, I can attest that credit card companies, for example arbitrarily set rates for small businesses, basically making it as high as they can get away with, based primarily on parasitic greed. Every time you buy something with a credit card at a business, 1.7-5 % of the cost of purchase goes to the credit card company. Banks are supremely loot-minded as well, setting service charges, based on a greed so parastic that even with that along with many other shyster activities they still manage to loot them to the ground, causing an economic crises (via CEO "bonuses" and suchlike), forcing a government bailout to supplement their greed. Wealth distribution is dictated by the top 1%, by and large government-supplemented looters, who preach tax-cuts, while hypocritically having a parasitic dependency on taxpayer-supplied money.

Most politicians are sponsored and bought by ravenous corporate entities, and serve as their servants so they can later be rewarded with a high-paying job in the private sector.

So, what should you do? I would reckon: Make money, lots of it, so you're not personally at the mercy of vested interests who would sacrifice you at the drop of a hat if it meant more $$$ for them.

[Vital Video]

There is a stigma surrounding mlm, some of it justified. I avoid hanging out with some good people that I know because I just don't want to hear about their latest scheme. Its too bad because I genuinely like them. They have never made any money with anything they've tried and are always bugging everybody. Being so dependent on others efforts to make your income is backwards thinking IMO.

[Ram]

MLM isn't "bad" per se. But there are some real problems with most - not all - companies.

1. Overpriced products. Especially bad in nutritionals and cosmetics/skin care, but prevelant in other lines too. Sorry, I'm not paying $40-$50 bucks for some jungle juice. And most who do aren't buying the juice/vitamins/skin cream/miracle product, etc. They are just buying because of autoship requirements. Some older companies (Avon, Mary Kay, Amway) have decent prices (comparable with those found in retail stores.) Most of the newer companies do not. They jack up prices so they can advertise higher payouts.

2. Outrageous claims about the products and the opportunity. Again, nutritionals are bad about it. Sorry, your juice, pill, potion may be good for you, but it's not a miracle. You can get the same benefits for a lot less money at your local health food store - or even Wal Mart. Those wild claims can get a company shut down.

3. You really have no control. Your business is dependent on downline members actually doing something - most won't. And the company staying alive. You can build a business and see it vanish in a day. Lots of "good" companies are no longer around. No matter what you think, mlm is never "your" business if you are a distributor.

4. A lot of work. Forget a few hours a week if you want to make big money. The high earners put n a lot of work and keep putting in a lot of work. You can't just "recruit 2" and be set. You have to be constantly recruiting and constantly supporting your team. Or your group will fall apart.

5. MLM attracts a lot of people who buy the "get rich with little effort" hype. They won't do anything. They expect you to do it for them. IM has those as well. But when I sell an IM product I don't have to promise training, hand holding, whatever, unless I get paid a lot of money. Many MLMers expect training for free. And they think it's unethical or a scam if you sell training. To hell with that. Someone wants me to train them they will have to fork over some serious cash. But there is some implied "obligation" when you recruit someone into a biz opp that doesn't exist when you just sell a product.

There are more problems, but you get my drift. Yes, you can make money in MLM. No, not all MLMs are scams. But frankly, it's too much work for too little stability for me. I'll take regular IM and affiliate marketing. It's a lot easier to sell "make money" info and services to people over and over again, than it is to present a biz opp and get them to make a committment and join..

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by Ram

1. Overpriced products. Especially bad in nutritionals and cosmetics/skin care, but prevelant in other lines too.

Have to agree with you, there. Too many MLM companies have overpriced products. Not all.

Originally Posted by Ram

2. Outrageous claims about the products and the opportunity.

Certainly a major problem and risk-factor in some industries. The behaviour of other distributors can even (occasionally) have the whole company closed down.

Originally Posted by Ram

3. You really have no control. Your business is dependent on downline members actually doing something - most won't.

Don't agree with you here. You have both control and responsibility and can build your business as selectively as you want and (to some extent) ensure that gets duplicated, too. Your income depends on what happens "under" you, and you have plenty of control over that.

Originally Posted by Ram

4. A lot of work.

Agreed. All really successful people in MLM have worked hard and are good at what they do.

Originally Posted by Ram

You have to be constantly recruiting and constantly supporting your team. Or your group will fall apart.

That depends how you build it. If you do so online, that's probably true. Offline models of MLM are FAR more successful.

Originally Posted by Ram

5. MLM attracts a lot of people who buy the "get rich with little effort" hype.

This is true. But to a degree you're responsible for whom you attract.

Originally Posted by Ram

I'll take regular IM and affiliate marketing.

This seems to be more or less my position too, for now, anyway. And if I ever return to MLM it certainly won't be to any online model.

[imon32red]

I am usually a reader on this forum but I thought that I would give my two cents.

I thought about this for a minute and this is what I came up with.

I think that part of the problem is that most of have probably been approached too many times. I know I have. In fact if you think about your average Joe that works 9-5 he probably knows very little about MLM's. But how many of us know what some of the latest companies are selling, how the down-line works, and someone that is involved. I know that I know more than I want to and the last time that I took a serious look at a MLM has been over ten years.

The only conclusion that I can come to is that I have owned several businesses, and most of my jobs where I worked for someone else was in sales and marketing. The average person that invests in an MLM probably realizes very soon that they don't have what it takes to really be successful on their own. That is when they start thinking of the people that they know that do have tenacity and a sales mentality.

So in answer to the question I don't think that it is so much that they are not respected. Some of us just get really sick of hearing about them, to put it politely.

[nobodyreal]

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

Its sort of a sum-zero game. Rip off all your friends and family so some hot shot can spit out the crumbs to you. Nothing like actually delivering a product that people want, for the right price and getting a commission on it.

As someone who hopes to implement a MLM campagin very soon, I disagree. Let me tell you the numbers.

Right now, communicating directly with salespeople, paying 700 per sale of a 2k SEO package. A good salesperson can contact up to 90 businesses in about 3 hours(via phone) and have conversion rates of 4-6 out of every 100 discussions with a business(only targeting likely businesses here).

So this person spends all day 6 hours calling, and because they have the system down and are adept enough to figure out who is likely to buy and who is not likely to buy within 3 minutes of talking(through question based selling), they can contact up to 180 businesses. With a conversion rate of 4-6 per 100, you see that this person could easily pull 2-3 sales a day. Quite remarkable!

So a work horse and a talented salesperson could make a 6 figure income on this, at 700 per sale, IF they are a master salesperson. Now here is where the MLM comes in.

My salesperson ran the idea by me--and of course I checked with my lawyer and read around online--Do you care how I get the sales? Can I use 'independent contractors', nothing would change for you, you would simply see way more sales coming from me.

So I investigated, and found out that this person was going to reward the outsourced salespeople with 500 per sale. Still a decent price. If they are a good salesperson, and can master the process of finding prospects(through a pretty basic system) and the actual selling to the point of being able to get 5 sales a week-- that person would also pull a six figure income.

You see what I'm saying? It's a multi level marketing scheme with the people on the bottom clearly able, dependent upon their skill, to pull 6 figures a year.

[mywebwork]

I think (and this thread helps to confirm) that the issue with MLM is one of perception -many people equate MLM to Pyramid Schemes without a second thought. It is a stereotype.

This is no different than the reputation Used Car (excuse me, "Pre-owned Vehicle") salespeople have had - the stereotypical used car salesman was a rip-off artist who was trying to swindle as much money as he could from you for a piece of junk that barely ran. In reality there are thousands of honest people who make a living selling quality used vehicles. It's another stereotype.

Stereotypes are hard to break!

Bill

[nobodyreal]

Bill, that's a very good point. Multi-level marketing is the method that all of the successful drug dealers use, it must be legit.

[wordofmouthmagic]

Originally Posted by Jack Bastide

In Internet Marketing terms:

MLM is a Multi tiered Affiliate Program with a Built
in Continuity Program

Trust a copywriter to nail it!

I came to MLM via IM because the product was an ideal affiliate sale on the back-end. This bit of luck helped me get past most of the MLM stigma and see it just as you describe Jack!

[sunonpath]

Originally Posted by Robyn8243

"Join my downline, but there is a 97-99% chance you will fail."

And if you are in the 1-3% who succeed, what that means is that you are successful at recruiting others, knowing that 97% of those you recruit will end up worse off financially than before you met.

If people were upfront about the likelihood of success PLUS the amount of time and effort and money it takes to achieve success in MLM, almost nobody would join.
Robyn

If people were upfront about it...then maybe only the 1-3% who succeed would join!

David

[Jay Truman]

Whats the difference between affiliate marketing and MLM?

Both are direct sales programs and... You don't own the product in either...

MLM is almost like selling a product with resell rights in affiliate marketing.

Robert Kiyosaki and Donald Trump both recommend MLM... Maybe because MLM provides leverage and leverage is a key factor in wealth?

I dont see Robert Kiyosaki or Donald trump recommending affiliate marketing, yet

[Ram]

Originally Posted by Jay Truman

[B]Robert Kiyosaki and Donald Trump both recommend MLM... Maybe because MLM provides leverage and leverage is a key factor in wealth?

I dont see Robert Kiyosaki or Donald trump recommending affiliate marketing, yet

They recommend it because they have a financial interest in doing so. Both are paid endorsers. Trump licenses his name. Kiyosaki's raise to bestselling author is due primarily to Amway groups recommending (and bulk buying) his RD/PD book.

Neither have ever been in mlm as a distributor. Frankly, their endorsement means nothing in real terms, though it will certainly draw in sheep.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by sunonpath

If people were upfront about it...then maybe only the 1-3% who succeed would join!

I agree entirely with the sentiment (not necessarily with the exact figures, which are widely quoted/alleged but always without a source and I think they're probably an exaggeration).

Both the people I know who are very successful in MLM businesses are extremely selective whom they'll sponsor. They won't use up their time, skills and effort on people they think are high-risk to drop out at some point. They have a simple duplicable business model that's reliably successful for people who are willing to copy it, and anyone wanting to "try the internet instead" (as a way of generating leads) is quickly but firmly invited to find another sponsor instead.

[Michael Mayhew]

Originally Posted by Success With Dany

Any notions of network marketing, mlm systems, mlm companies, etc, seem to be quickly shot down.

Are there any reasons for that? Or am I just imagining things?

I don't think that at all?

[Rachel Embry]

I've personally found this board to be fairly friendly towards MLMers. Actually, affiliate marketing is similar (in some ways) to MLM.

My husband has been a full-time MLMer for 3 years & I do online consulting work with several of the "big dogs" in MLM. Two things I have found surprising about the industry:

1) The general lack of respect for the entire industry. As an example, last week I was on the phone with the VP of Business Development for Jivox.com to inquire about some LARGE ad purchases for one of my clients. I said to him, "I'm a marketing consultant for several big leaders in the direct selling industry."...and the conversation ended. His whole demeanor changed & he got me off the phone as quick as possible.

This happens all the time. Salespeople don't realize that I represent leaders who have downlines in the tens of thousands- this would be HUGE business for them- but once they hear "direct sales" they turn a deaf ear.

2) Several very well known IMers also have MLM downlines. Some of them are open about it. Many of them are "stealth" & don't promote it to the IM world.

There are famous authors, talk show hosts, motivational speakers, and successful IMers, etc...all with large downlines in an MLM. I don't blame them. Multiple streams of income...

[David Frey]

First of all, I feel that I come to this conversation with a
unique position in that I've worked (and am still working)
very deep in the trenches in both Internet Marketing and
Network Marketing.

I've made millions in Internet Marketing and I've certainly
made over a million dollars in network marketing.

So I believe that my opinion carries a little more weight
than the people on this board who've only done one or the other.

[Which incidentally, is the problem with forums. Misinformed
people's opinions carry the same weight as informed people's opinions]

But to be honest, it's very hard to have an intelligent
conversation about network marketing because the people
bashing it are usually the ones who...

1. Have never actually done it.

or...

2. Never really committed themselves to becoming successful at it.

____________________________

Success Statistics
____________________________


People in internet marketing constantly point to the high failure
rate in network marketing.

Well here's a news flash.

My experience says that the failure rate in internet marketing
is the same or worse!

But we'll never know because there is no system for determining
true failure rates in internet marketing while the FTC demands
that MLM companies generate their earnings disclosure statements.

I've trained tons of "wanna be" internet marketers over the years
and about 3% go on to be successful.

The 97% usually spend money on courses, never use them, and
with little effort they quit.

From my experience, THE ONLY industry that this statistic does
not hold true in is in the franchise industry.

__________________________________________________ _______________

"It's Just a Pyramid Scheme and Only the People at the Top Make Money"
__________________________________________________ _______________


Uhhh, I was a Senior Vice President of a $500 Million Dollar company
and guess what, it was a big pyramid too!

Only the people at the top made big money.

Take a look at the home based internet marketing industry. If you
looked at income disbursement you would find that it's a pyramid too?
Only the people at the top make big money.

Of course only the people at the top make big money.

It's because there are only a few people who are willing to do what
the 97% of the others are not willing to do.

That's true in sports, in relationships, in business and in life.

______________________________

"Most MLM Companies are Scams"
______________________________


We throw around that word very loosely.

A scam is a business set up solely to defraud people.

I would venture to say that there really are very few scams in
existence when compared to legitimate businesses who
just don't offer great products or great service.

Just because a company that doesn't have a great product or a
great compensation plan or a great marketing plan, DOES NOT
mean it's a scam.

Heck, if that was the case...I could point to hundreds of products
in the internet marketing industry and say they are a scam.

1. Does Mile Filsaime have the best products and the best service? Is he a scam?

2. Does Fran Kern have the best products and the best service? Is he a scam?

3. Does Russell Brunson have the best products and the best service? Is he a scam?

4. For that matter, do I have the best products and the best service? Am I a scam?

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO we are NOT scammers!

Some of our products are great. Some aren't so great.

Some of our service is great. Some isn't so great.

One man's "not-so-great" product is another man's treasure and
saving grace!!

Thank goodness for people like Mike Filsaime, Frank Kern, and Russell Brunson
who step out of the box and share their experience in the form of home study
courses, software and coaching programs.

_______________________________

My Honest Experience With MLM
_______________________________


Here's what I've experience first hand with MLM over the years.

1. If you work the system, the system will work for you.

2. If you wholly dedicate your time and energies to being
successful and treat it like a business instead of a hobby,
you will be successful.

3. You have to invest your time, MONEY and efforts to
become successful (just like any other business).

4. When you do become successful, the passive income
that your network marketing company generates is far
superior to what internet marketers call passive income
(the explanation for this is for another time and place).

5. I've created a group of friends in network marketing
whose relationships I'll always cherish.

6. In network marketing I HAVE to care about people's
success. If they are not successful, I don't make money.
(That is NOT true in internet marketing)

7. I LOVE MLM and I LOVE Internet Marketing and they
will both be a part of my business for a long time to come.

_______________________

The Last Word...
_______________________


I personally went through over $100,000 before I ever
made a penny in Internet Marketing. I'm grateful for
every last penny that I lost to learn this skill because
it has paid itself back over many, many, many, many times.

I spent $400 to enter network marketing and have
never lost once cent but have made my initial $400
back many, many, many, many times over.

David

P.S. But maybe I'm spoiled because I represent a
company that includes everything that is right about
network marketing.

[Dave777]

Originally Posted by Jay Truman

Whats the difference between affiliate marketing and MLM?

Both are direct sales programs and... You don't own the product in either...

MLM is almost like selling a product with resell rights in affiliate marketing.

Robert Kiyosaki and Donald Trump both recommend MLM... Maybe because MLM provides leverage and leverage is a key factor in wealth?

I dont see Robert Kiyosaki or Donald trump recommending affiliate marketing, yet

Definitely...
The Trump Network : Discover the difference between opportunity and success

Just for your info in case you were not aware...
Commission Junction Affiliate Program - Trump University

Dave

[Jay Truman]

Originally Posted by Ram

They recommend it because they have a financial interest in doing so.

Kinda like Affiliate marketing

Originally Posted by Ram

Trump licenses his name.

Exactly, because there is money in MLM.

Originally Posted by Ram

Neither have ever been in mlm as a distributor.

True, but Donald does own an MLM company. Why be a distributor, when you can own it?

The Trump Network : Discover the difference between opportunity and success

Originally Posted by Ram

Frankly, their endorsement means nothing in real terms, though it will certainly draw in sheep.

That's what celebrity endorsements are for

[Jay Truman]

Originally Posted by Ram

1. Overpriced products.

2. Outrageous claims about the products and the opportunity.

3. You really have no control.

4. A lot of work.

5. MLM attracts a lot of people who buy the "get rich with little effort" hype.

MLM and affiliate marketing are very similar

[JaniG]

Originally Posted by mlmguru

Two well known people that many consider to be financial genuises support the MLM business structure, Donald Trump and Warren Buffet. This alone says a lot. Anyone know which cosmetic company is the biggest? Avon and Mary Kay, both who use the MLM business model. We have been bombarded with so many advertisements these days that they are no longer working, businesses are looking for alternative to promote and MLM is becoming a popular way. When franchises first came out everyone said they were a scam, you had to pay them to use their name, and then pay them a percentage of your profits, francises have since flourished and have become very popular. MLMs are very similiar to franchises. As with anything there are some crap MLMs out there, a lot of them. Look for one with a great product, and one that is not dependent on recruiting others.

The MLM Model LOOKS good from the outside

However those 2 financial geniuses are not in any MLM's lol

but ofcourse the structure looks good

but that doesnt mean it works for everyone

and the subject in this topic was asking why members of the WF don't support MLM

and that is because this is a forum on Internet Business / Internet marketing so why would we want to talk about MLM

however i am not bashing MLM

just saying that this forum probably isnt the best place to come for advice on mlm

[Jay Truman]

Originally Posted by teamfire

However those 2 financial geniuses are not in any MLM's lol

Well, Trump does own one now...

The Trump Network : Discover the difference between opportunity and success

[Success With Dany]

Originally Posted by David Frey

Uhhh, I was a Senior Vice President of a $500 Million Dollar company

To this day, I'm still amazed every time I read people from the corporate world with cushy, big dollar jobs make the jump to MLM and IM! Always!

[kennykencaid]

MLM has a bad name because its JUNK.

Talk soon,
Kenny Kencaid

[Rachel Embry]

David, thanks for jumping in on this conversation- your name was one of the "big dogs" I was thinking about as I know you've been very successful in both the IM & MLM field.

My honest opinion: Give the IM world about 5-10 more years, and you'll start hearing people saying, "I tried one of them internet marketing deals...it was just a scam. No one makes any money at those things."

[Sonja]

Originally Posted by David Frey

Which incidentally, is the problem with forums. Misinformed
people's opinions carry the same weight as informed people's opinions

Amen....ain't that the truth

[dandimit]

Cool examples. I agree, but truth-be-told, 97% of Internet marketers won't make money,and about the same percentage is true about any other kind of business...

[dandimit]

I'm glad you said it, because I thought I was going to have to do it. Great job.
I totally agree with what you've said here.

[MattRobson]

MLM has a shaky reputation for a lot of reasons. The fact that they are known to proposition people in book stores is one hit against their reputation. Leading companies are known to change names, have large PR problems, lawsuits, backlashes against practices of their salespeople. Many people go all-out to discredit leading Network Marketing companies, like merchantsofdeception or the Bo Short Saga.

One blogger made an interesting point that an MLM that makes the viable portion of the revenue from the downline will eventually become over-saturated with sellers(if it's any good), and will simply not sell at all if it's no good. In either case, the possible favorable window must come to a close by the laws of continual multiplication. Eventually, there is no longer a favorable sellers market for the goods, or for the new downlines to sustain the model. So, each MLM has a certain 'timing' involved as well.

That being said, the larger players in this market do upwards of 6 billion in revenue.

Some have credited the network marketing model with pioneering the whole and organic foods, vitamin and supplement crazes that are now mainstream.

Many MLMs I've seen also seem to use a sponsor that acts as a mentor for new members.

I knew this very successful businessman who was doing ACN with his son as some kind of bonding experience, but, that didn't stop him from selling to his personal network.

Whenever everyone is pitching their friends an opportunity where they haven't made any money yet, it's shady. When the only real money they can hope to make would come from their friends, it gets worse than shady.

You wonder if they are being intentionally manipulative, or simply selective pollyanna syndrome.

Who really knows.

" That'll be $500 to get started. Cash Only Buddy! "

Seems like a lot of MLM Refugees out there who made it into IM.

[AndrewCollinson]

I agree with the point that the product must be sellable even if it was outside of MLM.

It seems to me there are so many mlm companies operating in the wellness industry.Just how many wonder juices are there?

It is much harder to sell a product that someone does not already use than one they do but at a lower price.

My opportunity is in the telecoms/utilities industry,which everybody already buys,so the sales process is so much easier than pitching some new wellness product.

The other side of the equation is that the company must allow internet marketing of the product,we all know those generic company website are useless.If you can't do that then you are stuck with the talking to strangers in shopping malls nightmare and who wants that?

[Sapphire69]

MLM has many "false promises" of exponential financial growth, which earnt it a bad name.

Network Marketing has always been great if you, to coin a phrase, put the Networking before the Marketing, and put the affiliate and customer first. Mottos like "my success is your success" create the correct mindset.


Sophia

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by AndrewCollinson

The other side of the equation is that the company must allow internet marketing of the product,we all know those generic company website are useless.If you can't do that then you are stuck with the talking to strangers in shopping malls nightmare and who wants that?

It's absolutely breathtaking to me that someone actually promoting an MLM opportunity can imagine that to be true!

I agree completely that those generic company web sites aren't too good. But nothing's as bad as talking to strangers in shopping malls. Fortunately, however, that's by no means what "you are stuck with". Truly successful network marketers have none of those problems at all and many other ways of attracting to themselves genuine prospective associates who are already looking for a home-based business opportunity.

[Sapphire69]

I have reposted my article on The False Promise of MLM at my Blog for those interested.


Sophia

[Mal Keenan]

I've been involved with one or two highly respected Warriors in the past. So I doubt it is frowned upon here although as others have pointed out it probably depends on the quality of the program.