I kinda noticed that MLM is not that respected here... Is it true?

[Success With Dany]

Any notions of network marketing, mlm systems, mlm companies, etc, seem to be quickly shot down.

Are there any reasons for that? Or am I just imagining things?

[markquinn]

Originally Posted by Success With Dany

Any notions of network marketing, mlm systems, mlm companies, etc, seem to be quickly shot down.

Are there any reasons for that? Or am I just imagining things?

Hmm. I've never noticed that specifically, unless it's some crazy wild-haired scheme or a cash gifting ponzi.

[threatlevelorange]

Its sort of a sum-zero game. Rip off all your friends and family so some hot shot can spit out the crumbs to you. Nothing like actually delivering a product that people want, for the right price and getting a commission on it.

[Success With Dany]

Originally Posted by threatlevelorange

Its sort of a sum-zero game. Rip off all your friends and family so some hot shot can spit out the crumbs to you. Nothing like actually delivering a product that people want, for the right price and getting a commission on it.

Thou speaketh well on the matter.

[George Sepich]

I don't think it's really MLM that gets shot down in the forum. It's just the fact that many of the forum spammers are promoting MLM. Therefore MLM is not really taken seriously.

On second thought, most MLM just plain sucks.

George

[George Wright]

Most things that can't be done through Paypal don't fly with other IMers. Although there are some IMers that are MLMers also.

George Wright

[l23bc]

most mlm i have seen seem to crash and burn a lot quicker and are not worth joining

besides when google slaps your website or you just lose money from clickbank at least you can gloat and smile in the 60 day refund policy unlike most mlm groups i read alot about on scam forum

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Anyone want to buy into my Amway downline? lol

[Hesaidblissfully]

I think it's a case of guilt by association. MLM (rightly or wrongly, depending on who you ask) is associated with scams ans ponzi schemes, so I think most people here just figure it's better left untouched.

[Tsnyder]

I think most of the posters in this thread have no experience
with legitimate mlm companies. Yes, there are lots of illegal
pyramid schemes and bogus cash gifting deals floating around
internet but they bear zero resemblance to legitimate mlm.

There are some very prominent Warriors who derive a significant
portion of their income from legitimate mlm companies.

Tsnyder

[thunderbird]

I've seen people get wealthy with mlm's. They accomplished this by going far and wide to give presentations, whether to one person or to groups. The problem with mlm's is that the emphasis is on selling the business and getting other people to join rather than the product. This inevitably involves badgering friends, family, colleagues and strangers to join your scheme.

Most of the money MLM's make is from members' purchases of products, who buy them because it is conditional to buy whatever product or service to make money. Most of them lose money, rather make money, and often spend a fortune on the mlm's how-to guides (the kind of thing that is free with regular sales gigs).

Formulaic presentation. In selling their businesses, mlm reps (or whatever title is bestowed on them) typically ask questions to the effect of what would you do if you had a lot of money. I guess it is in the hopes of getting the prospective buyer into dream-mode. I even witnessed this in someone's pitch to sell an addon to a product (not MLM). I pick up on it immediately and find it annoying.

Worship of CEO's. MLM's often show pictures of wealth and, in embarrassing kiss-a$$ mode lend godlike aura to CEO's (those looting thieves who've been rendering serious damage to our economy).

Frankly, for most people it is more lucrative just to go into sales (many regular sales gigs do include potential of "residual income" that mlm-types repeat like a mantra). And such sales opportunities don't demand that you buy the product in order to sell it.

It is likely that some mlm's are good, but most that I have seen suck.

[Tsnyder]

thunderbird...

Interestingly, a good portion of what you posted could be
accurately said about the business of internet marketing...

Tsnyder

[Carl-Reed]

MLM can be an amazing business to be involved in, but I would only choose one with tangible products, and one which didn't give distributors cash rewards for recruiting.

A real MLM pays its distributors on product volume, not recruitment volume.

That's really the bottom line between a legit MLM and a pyramid scheme.



As for it not being respected here, I've not seen much MLM bashing going on.

And it's not really a popular topic, this is an Internet marketing forum after all, not a network marketing forum.

IMO, MLM's which are Internet based normally burn out very quickly.

[thunderbird]

Tsnyder, I suppose so. In fact, in some cases internet marketing and MLMs are one and the same.

However, there are major differences. You can be an internet marketing affiliate and even make residual income in some affiliate programs without having to buy whatever it is month by month.

I think Carl-Reed presents a reasonable point of view on it.

[The Oilman]

I kinda feel sorry for MLM

I think it gets a bad reputation due to some bad apples.

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Tsnyder, I suppose so. In fact, in some cases internet marketing and MLMs are one and the same.

However, there are major differences. You can be an internet marketing affiliate and even make residual income in some affiliate programs without having to buy whatever it is month by month.

I think Carl-Reed presents a reasonable point of view on it.

Yes... Carl-Reed is absolutely right. There have been so many
scams perpetrated under the guise of being MLM that many now
have a negative point of view about MLM... even though the scam
had nothing to do with legitimate MLM.

The major difference you cite isn't a difference at all. Legitimate
MLM's require monthly product volume in order to earn residuals on
group volume but that volume doesn't have to be personally purchased.
It can come from customer orders on your ID number.

Although I use the product myself, my monthly volume requirement
is more than fulfilled by my customers.

Tsnyder

[internetmarketer99]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Anyone want to buy into my Amway downline? lol

OMG... cant-stop-laughing... I just spit my coffee all over my monitor!

Thanks Jeremy, that's got to be one of the funniest things I've read in a while. BTW, you owe me for a new monitor. Or at least some paper towels.

Amway was my first foray into MLM and one of my first 'serious' business ventures. Has to be close to 30 years ago, when they were in initial growth spurt, not too many had heard of Amway or even knew what MLM was.

Of course, I sold out my "required" initial buy-in to friends & family, signed up a few of the same, and have been trying to shake that shyster rep ever since...

For the most part, companies like Amway are good, well-run companies. Unfortunately, MLM is over-run with scams and scammers. And as has been said above, the good definitely suffers from 'guilt by association'.

Of course, who wouldn't want an ever-widening network of worker bees funneling up some of their commissions...?

Mark

[Dave777]

As with many things and particular relationship situations in Life including MLM, being out of the gate 1st and staying on "Top" seems to be the way to Win at the good ol' MLM game! The following resource might Help a little in the respect department...
Truth on MLM or Network Marketing

Dave

[dv8]

I never paid attention to MLM because I always thought they were scams.

But that changed. I personally know someone that gets a check every week for $27,000. He is the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. His father in law does over $3 million a year in the same company. His siter in law does about $1 million.

So it can be done. But 97% of people never make any money with MLM.

[Steve Diamond]

Originally Posted by dv8

I never paid attention to MLM because I always thought they were scams.

But that changed. I personally know someone that gets a check every week for $27,000. He is the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. His father in law does over $3 million a year in the same company. His siter in law does about $1 million.

So it can be done. But 97% of people never make any money with MLM.

Yup, I think 97% is about right. You know what that means? The "nicest guy" you mentioned is getting his earnings from a) those in his downline who are losing money, and b) customers who are overpaying for products so that huge commissions can be paid. It may not be, strictly speaking, an illegal pyramid. But it's inevitable that the majority pays so that the tiny minority can profit.

Steve

[dv8]

Originally Posted by Steve Diamond

Yup, I think 97% is about right. You know what that means? The "nicest guy" you mentioned is getting his earnings from a) those in his downline who are losing money, and b) customers who are overpaying for products so that huge commissions can be paid. It may not be, strictly speaking, an illegal pyramid. But it's inevitable that the majority pays so that the tiny minority can profit.

Steve

What's your point?

Seems you are implying that he is ripping people off? This is the way the world works. The top 5% earn 95% of the money. Numbers may not be exact, but you get the point.

It's not his fault the people below him fall into the 97% bracket while he falls into the 3% (or more specifically, probably in the top 1%). They all have the potential to do what he does. He is there to help them if they want it. They all have access to him. Access to the same products and materials he uses. Problem is, most of them don't want it bad enough.

I have his phone number, emial, and I can stop by his house whenever I want. He would take the time to help me make money with this. But I am not pursuing it right now. And that's my choice, not his.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by dv8

97% of people never make any money with MLM.

So some people allege.

They never have any evidence for it, but they allege it anyway.

I suspect the true figure is about 80 - 85% and it's probably also about the same figure that applies to internet marketing and to many other business models as well (and no, I don't have real evidence either: I'm just giving my own opinion like the rest of you!).

[Melkor]

Actually, if you look up the IRS and SBA data, you will see that 99.98% (+/-0.01%) of MLM'ers never make enough money to actually have a taxable income from their MLM business.

There may be some ROI and sales, but the advertising expenses and general business expense eat up the income faster than it's produced for all but the very few top heavy hitters in any company - go look it up yourself, it's right there in the IRS and SBA stats.

Of course some Warriors make a mint - what do you think the PIPS program is? It's even conceivable that the Warrior members beat the odds by a significant margin given the level of support in the PIPS program. But the real figures are right out in the open for all to see - a lot of people who claim to make oodles of money in MLM have in fact never actually made enough to even have a taxable income.

[Liam Hamer]

I haven't seen it mentioned a lot here to be honest, which actually surprised me a lot when I joined. Some of the first opportunities I joined when I first got into IM(around Feb this year) were MLM/Matrixes and the like. In fact, before I joined the WF I thought that was the way forward for me and I'd eventually make some good money from it. In the last few months, I've gradually moved away from this kind of thing. I'm still a member of some of these sites/companies, but I've cancelled my subscription to quite a few too.

The ones I am still in, I don't think they're scams at all - but I'm just not sure if they're for me long term. I've had some moderate success with some of them, but my focus is now pretty much completely on niche marketing. The guy that effectively got me into MLM/Matrixes initially makes very good money(5 figures) every month and good luck to him. I have found it quite difficult to brand myself as a leader and bring people into these things. Partly because I'm not really a natural leader, and partly because the sites I am promoting are either saturated or only provide an income opportunity, rather than a specific product. I have not given up though, I still believe there is a huge market for MLM and matrixes, I just think I'm better suited to niche marketing - and I actually find it more rewarding too

To conclude, there are some out there that aren't scams and are genuine, but you have to make sure you are suited to them and you are confident about promoting them to others. Generally though, I can understand a) why a lot of people think all things MLM are scams and b) why MLM isn't talked about much here at the WF.

[Steve Diamond]

Originally Posted by dv8

What's your point?

Seems you are implying that he is ripping people off? This is the way the world works. The top 5% earn 95% of the money. Numbers may not be exact, but you get the point.

It's not his fault the people below him fall into the 97% bracket while he falls into the 3% (or more specifically, probably in the top 1%). They all have the potential to do what he does. He is there to help them if they want it. They all have access to him. Access to the same products and materials he uses. Problem is, most of them don't want it bad enough.

I have his phone number, emial, and I can stop by his house whenever I want. He would take the time to help me make money with this. But I am not pursuing it right now. And that's my choice, not his.

My point is simply that all MLMs are inherently structured to make the redistribution of wealth inevitable. It's not just that they count on it, they actively aid and abet it. Because they generally don't bother to mention this little secret up front, they basically manage to keep recruiting folks to feed the top earners through their own losses.

You know, this little discussion is unlikely to change anyone's mind. Each of us has his or her own point of view. But the OP has sure gotten a nice spectrum of responses.

Steve

[WebMaster Jim]

The one thing I haven't heard mentioned yet about MLMs, is that if someone lacks a basic business background. MLMs (and I mean the reputable ones), usually have a very good business system for the individual to follow.

I was involved with one offline and that is where I learned most of my "business" knowledge.

Jim

[dv8]

Originally Posted by alexa_s

So some people allege.

They never have any evidence for it, but they allege it anyway.

I suspect the true figure is about 80 - 85% and it's probably also about the same figure that applies to internet marketing and to many other business models as well (and no, I don't have real evidence either: I'm just giving my own opinion like the rest of you!).

It may be lower, who knows. I doubt it though. But I guess it depends on what would qualify as "making money". Technically making even a penny is making money. So yes, if we go by that definition, then I would agree the number is probably lower than 97%. But let's be real here. A good majority of the people who do make money don't make much so it's not even worth mentioning.

[dv8]

Originally Posted by Steve Diamond

My point is simply that all MLMs are inherently structured to make the redistribution of wealth inevitable. It's not just that they count on it, they actively aid and abet it. Because they generally don't bother to mention this little secret up front, they basically manage to keep recruiting folks to feed the top earners through their own losses.

I don't see a problem with this as long as the person "recruiting" is honest with people that there is a very good chance they make not make any money with the program.

And again, it's just the way the world works. A small percentage of people make most of the money. At least you have the choice to pick which category you want to be in.

Originally Posted by Steve Diamond

You know, this little discussion is unlikely to change anyone's mind. Each of us has his or her own point of view.

Steve

Agreed.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Success With Dany

Any notions of network marketing, mlm systems, mlm companies, etc, seem to be quickly shot down.

Are there any reasons for that? Or am I just imagining things?

Your impression is right. As a long time member of this board
I know that MLMs don't have a favorable welcome around here.
At the same time there are warriors involved in MLMs who do very
well even though they don't post a "how to make $xxxx in X days"
thread.

I've written copy for some MLMers who rake in over $80,000
per month, so I know the field is lucrative. But successes are
few and far between.

-Ray Edwards

[Nido]

MLM attracts too many idiots who think they'll become millionaires by just thinking positive and making a list of friend and family. Once they run out of the list...they don't have another system to fall back on (no REAL marketing skills) so they bug everyone who comes their way.

I was presenting to my meetup group 2 weeks and some lady starts promoting her mlm right there. I was PISSED. So mlm as a company isn't the problem...it's just their systems to make money suck. Once they suck all the blood from their family and friends...they come after us like BLOOD THRISTY vampires.

[dv8]

Originally Posted by Nido

MLM attracts too many idiots who think they'll become millionaires by just thinking positive and making a list of friend and family. Once they run out of the list...they don't have another system to fall back on (no REAL marketing skills) so they bug everyone who comes their way.

I was presenting to my meetup group 2 weeks and some lady starts promoting her mlm right there. I was PISSED. So mlm as a company isn't the problem...it's just their systems to make money suck. Once they suck all the blood from their family and friends...they come after us like BLOOD THRISTY vampires.

That's exactly the problem. Good post.

To add, then they go and bash MLM and say it's a scam.

[Josh Anderson]

I have high end clients in the MLM industry. I was successful in MLM. I still recommend some legit MLM companies because they have good products and services...

However, generally speaking... most MLM opportunities are a lot of work with very little reward when compared to how much more and how quickly you can earn with affiliate marketing or marketing your own products with your own affiliate program.

Lets take one of the most successful MLM companies for example:

Mona Vie.

Mona Vie boasts over $1 Billion in sales since its inception.

Mona Vie also has 1 million distributors.

But here is their income disclosure statement required by law:

http://media.monavie.com/pdf/corpora..._statement.pdf

If you do the math based on their average yearly incomes and the average number of hours worked to produce those incomes you will find that the majority of their distributors make far less than the federal minimum wage.

How many of us have seen brainwashed MLM distributors who work hard believing they are going to get rich and actually end up loosing money?

What the Income Disclosure Statement fails to display is the auto ship and minimum ordering requirements forced on distributors by that company.

If you had those numbers you could subtract what they paid from what they made and find what they really earned... and it would be far far less.

However, lets forget what they paid and only take into consideration what they made on average and how much time they spent to earn it:

Here is the formula:

(average yearly earnings) / (average hours worked each week * 52) = Hourly wage



Here are the numbers based on my interpretation of that disclosure document:

Rank earning averages:

Distributors who earned anything earned an average of $3.69 per hour.

Star who earned anything earned an average of $3.90 per hour (that is just 5 cents more than I made working as a dishwasher at 16 years old in the 80's.)

Star 500 made an average of $7.85 per hour but the % of all people who had become distributors of Mona Vie who achieved this level is less than 1%

Note that when I say all people who had become distributors I am including those who are not active who intelligently stopped wasting their time. The disclosure statement of Mona Vie contains stats that represent only the average active weekly volume and does not represent the hundreds of thousands of "dead bodies" this particular company leaves behind.

Of those distributors that actually earned enough income that it could have been their primary income source and put them above the income poverty line according to the average active distributors only those at the "Silver Executive" level reached that.

Sliver Executive level averaged $56 per hour working an average of 12 hours per week and earning an average of $29k a year.

But get this of all active distributors Silver executive made up only 1%... and numbered only 666

But that % does not even represent the % of total distributors who made it that far...

That equation, being conservative, is 666 divided by 1 million.

or .0666 of a %

If you add that number to all the distributors out of the 1 million + who had become distributors for mona vie who had earned more income than the poverty line it is only 1465.

That is less than 1 1/2 tenth of a percent.

The numbers are even smaller for those who become financially independent.

This company is a particularly bad example but when you pull back the covers on the mlm industry...

Its easy to see by the numbers why so many people say that 99.9% of people in MLM fail...

If you consider that 99.9% of people in MLM fail to live up to the dream they are sold of replacing their income.

How much over priced forced auto ship product each year is sold based on a financial pipe dream rather than the quality, value, and competitive price.

My response to people in opportunities like Qstar (Amway) is:

"Your going to have to buy a lot of toilet paper off your self to get rich."

Yet that is what these people are taught... that they make money by buying these products off themselves at a discount and convincing other people to become distributors and do the same.

[Rod Cortez]

I've spent a decade promoting 4 different MLM products / services and spent nearly a decade promoting my own digital and physical products. I stopped my involvement in mlm years ago when I saw that owning my own company, owning my own commission structure to affiliates, and cranking out my own products was infinitely more profitable.

Though I sold my downlines and did extremely well, I would not recommend mlm to anyone. Even the legit ones. There are far more sound business models out there.

Even though there are some Warriors that do well with mlm, this is primarily an internet marketing forum and the mlmers that generally come here don't know how to participate effectively in this forum. That's why mlm is not very popular around here.

[Eric Lorence]

"MLM" is just to broad of a term like "Internet Marketing" there's too much being pushed under the umbrella.

"Legit" or not - it's just semantics, you may make a million in the program, and you'll think it's legit - or loose your arse and think it's a scam.

For every one who's made a killing in any MLM program, there are 50 who made nothing, so with those odds - yes the general consensus will be poor.

And yes - the "Millionaires" of MLM are the ones that LAUNCH the programs, and their immediate partners, 99.999% will make peanuts.

[JaniG]

Its because this forum is more about Real internet marketing business and we talk about things to do with haveing a real internet business instead of MLM recruiting etc etc...

So learn all you can, this is the best place you can come to get away from the MLM crowd and start to make real money online

Jani

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by Eric Lorence

And yes - the "Millionaires" of MLM are the ones that LAUNCH the programs, and their immediate partners, 99.999% will make peanuts.

If that's true how do explain the fact that the #1 money earner
for Pre-Paid Legal Services joined after it was more than 20 years
old?

In response to others... no... average people don't make much
money in MLM... then again, average people don't make much money
at anything.

Tsnyder

[Eric Lorence]

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

If that's true how do explain the fact that the #1 money earner
for Pre-Paid Legal Services joined after it was more than 20 years
old?

In response to others... no... average people don't make much
money in MLM... then again, average people don't make much money
at anything.

Tsnyder

That's why I didn't say 100%, and yes there are more then a few "pink Cadillacs" in my neighborhood too.

Don't know what you mean by "average" ... unless you consider yourself "above average" because you made some bucks at MLM.

The fact is most people just aren't cut out for it, but there are plenty of other ways to make money online ... MLM is just one small segment.

[Josh Anderson]

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

If that's true how do explain the fact that the #1 money earner
for Pre-Paid Legal Services joined after it was more than 20 years
old?

In response to others... no... average people don't make much
money in MLM... then again, average people don't make much money
at anything.

Tsnyder

Certainly, average people don't make much money...

But the average person working a 9 to 5 minimum wage job makes more money than 99% of all network marketers.

Chances are if you deliver pizza or wait tables and someone pitches you on MLM you will make more money working extra hours delivering pizza and waiting tables than that person will ever make in MLM.

In fact above average people make less than minimum wage at MLM... high above average. Average people in MLM never even break even or make any profit.

The numbers is network marketing are more abysmal than options like affiliate marketing or selling your own products and services and running your own affiliate program.

I recruited thousands, trained thousands, and made thousands in network marketing...

That was before I realized what an amazing and more profitable business affiliate marketing and creating products and services on the net for people who need and want them and running my own affiliate program could be. Creating services providing automation systems and marketing funnels for network marketing lead gen companies and distributors is a much more profitable business :-)

Look...

This is not coming from a guy who is opposed to network marketing...

A couple days ago I just got a check for $5700 in the mail to set up a lead generation and network marketing training membership funnel for one of the most successful distributors in one of the most historically successful network marketing companies there is... and that's just for the setup ;-)

There are a few network marketing companies that do offer good commissions on products and services that provide good retail value... I actually belong to a couple and buy business products and services off them.

Its generally though the type of company that focuses on the marketing of the product primarily and not the forcing of auto ship order on the distributor as a requirement to qualify to get paid or earn higher commission levels.

[Yadira Barbosa]

Im on MLM and IM, but I never mix my business.

I hate those guys and gals that promote themselves as big leaders, and only spam on every forum and social network their found.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by dv8

A good majority of the people who do make money don't make much so it's not even worth mentioning.

Originally Posted by dv8

A small percentage of people make most of the money.

I accept that these points are true of MLM, just as I'm sure you accept that they're equally true of internet marketing and many other business models, too.

[Sportsmarketer]

I don't think that the Warrior Forum is unique in there general dislike of MLM companies. Nobody likes when there relatives call them with a great business opportunity that has a very small chance of making anyone a considerable amount of money.

Steve

[Rod Cortez]

Originally Posted by Tsnyder

If that's true how do explain the fact that the #1 money earner
for Pre-Paid Legal Services joined after it was more than 20 years
old?

In response to others... no... average people don't make much
money in MLM... then again, average people don't make much money
at anything.

Tsnyder

And what does that prove? It doesn't disprove Josh's posts. The FACT of the matter is that most people don't make money in ANY business due to a myriad of factors. Nor does it change the fact that the average mlm earner still earns LESS than the average job earner. Nor does it change the perception of the mlm industry. And with good reason. Between the IRS, Dateline, and more than one large accounting firm, MOST people in network marketing don't make squat. As a ten year mlm veteran I can attest to that.

[dv8]

Originally Posted by alexa_s

I accept that these points are true of MLM, just as I'm sure you accept that they're equally true of internet marketing and many other business models, too.

Yes, that is also true. But this thread was started to ask about MLM. Not other business models.

But yes, it's all the same, some people make money but the majority don't in every business model.

[JazzOscar]

For an MLM operation to be respected, at least by me, what you sell have to be a product or service that can stand on it's own feet, and which can be, and also is, sold by people not just because of the MLM structure. MLM then becomes just a method by which you organize your selling. Those MLMs doesn't even necessarily have sales volume requirements.

What I do not respect at all is all those MLMs with products that are outright crap which are in place only to add a stroke of legality to the recruiting game.

[kenjitay]

I guess most MLMers are not real business owners, that is why they do not know how to go about doing their business.

Most preach their opportunity about how you can make alot of money and promises "get rich quick" scheme. I guess that is why MLM is not very popular .. and in fact had its name tarnish..

However, in defence, I agree that MLM is a great business model. If it is taken as a business - "as a distribution and training system" and not just mainly recruiting downlines fr money, then people can be truely successful with it.

In fact, some IMers are using IM business model as a tool to help build their downlines. As such, instead of preaching people, they are receiving real value as to how to "build a business" using IM.

Like IM, It is the leadership of the entreprenuer.. not the product... not the company.. not the upline.. though they do play a certain part.. ^^

[Imran Naseem]

MLM is every Internet Marketers bad, wet dream.

Period.

MLM died a few years ago. Despite people making money with it I don't recommend it.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by dv8

Yes, that is also true. But this thread was started to ask about MLM. Not other business models.

I accept that, just as I'm sure that you accept that in a thread in an internet marketing forum that was started to ask about a specific subject, if someone says/implies "One of the things wrong with it is that ... "x"-reason"," and "x"-reason" is also equally true of internet marketing itself, it's not only entirely reasonable and appropriate to point this out, but it would actually even be colluding in a deception to fail to do so!

[mlmguru]

Two well known people that many consider to be financial genuises support the MLM business structure, Donald Trump and Warren Buffet. This alone says a lot. Anyone know which cosmetic company is the biggest? Avon and Mary Kay, both who use the MLM business model. We have been bombarded with so many advertisements these days that they are no longer working, businesses are looking for alternative to promote and MLM is becoming a popular way. When franchises first came out everyone said they were a scam, you had to pay them to use their name, and then pay them a percentage of your profits, francises have since flourished and have become very popular. MLMs are very similiar to franchises. As with anything there are some crap MLMs out there, a lot of them. Look for one with a great product, and one that is not dependent on recruiting others.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by James Lancaster

MLM is multi level marketing, basically a pyramid scheme.

All you show is your own prejudice and lack of familiarity with the meanings of these words, James. Not only is MLM not "basically a pyramid scheme", but the two are actually entirely mutually exclusive terms. A pyramid scheme can't be MLM: it can only be pretending to be MLM. These scams do apparently fool some very gullible people, though, which must be very annoying indeed for people promoting MLM businesses.

Originally Posted by James Lancaster

You can usually refer your friends to CPA networks and earn a commission, but that's just a side bonus, the main money comes from you selling products.

James, in MLM businesses, the only way that anyone can earn money is in the form of commissions on product sales. Without products being bought and sold, nobody earns a penny. Anything else would be an illegal pyramid. Oh dear - you really are a little confused, aren't you?!

[dv8]

Originally Posted by alexa_s

I accept that, just as I'm sure that you accept that in a thread in an internet marketing forum that was started to ask about a specific subject, if someone says/implies "One of the things wrong with it is that ... "x"-reason"," and "x"-reason" is also equally true of internet marketing itself, it's not only entirely reasonable and appropriate to point this out, but it would actually even be colluding in a deception to fail to do so!

Haha, feisty in the morning I see!

Let's accept that I accept the fact that you accept that we both accept pretty much the same viewpoints on MLM and IM. Is that acceptable?