I am absolutely sick and tired of marketers lying about the content of their sites.

[artwebster]

I have been taking advantage of some seeing time by trying to do some research.
What a mess marketers are making of the internet as an information tool. All too often I find that no matter what I search for there is absolutely no useful information for several pages of results because of the use of inappropriate key words in site descriptions by careless and desperate marketers.
I recently was doing research on snow blowers. What an absolute waste of time! Just having the words 'snow blower' in my search term ensured hundreds of web sites appearing in the search results that were only interested in selling something.
The wierdest results I saw were sites that simply included 'snow blower' in a list of topics that weren't actually on the site.
It seems to me that marketers are defeating themselves by creating antipathy among web browsers by forever pushing genuine information sites further and further back in the search results. Certainly I am staggered at the difficulty there is now in finding information on the web.
If I could get there I'm sure my local library would be a faster source.

[VoodooMethods]

Yeah, google is trying real hard to make it so they only rank useful websites high in the serps. It's too bad it's failing hard and too many spammy sites are ranking higher than legit ones.

I don't even remember the last time I searched for something and actually clicked on the first result and found useful info. It's always halfway down or on page 2.

[Gary McCaffrey]

But wouldn't you think that most people who search for snow blowers are in fact actually looking to purchase one?

I just did a search and the top results included a wikipedia info article, a snow blower model info and review site, which included a snow thrower buyers guide and expert reviews on many models.

There were also a few sites selling snow blowers and of course google ads selling snow blowers.

What else would someone searching for snow blowers possibly want to find?

[Ken Durham]

I guess it has become second nature with me to be specific in my searches when dealing with Google, such as information on snow blowers I would search:
snow blower information

This returns several pages of information with snow blowers guide, how things work, etc..

[darrin_cooper]

I completely agree. I wanted research on how to put together newsletter templates, and things are so messed up, you have to weed through 20 pages of worthless sites.

Soon, things will be so messed up, just to get to the page you want, you'll have to go link through 20 sites just to get to the one you want. Like this:

Google Search > Squidoo > Hubpages >wikipedia > MySpace > Facebook page >Some dude from Russia's comment >Yahoo Answers > Ask.com > Hidden Google Adsense >Blogger.com blog post > Links back to Link 3 on the same google search you just searched > You Finally Found It ---
---Only after you submitted your First Name & Email Adress 6 times, and then you actually turned on the television, and they were teaching the same thing you wanted to learn about 5 minutes ago.

Right now, it's the marketers who have the $10k - $20k per month to spend to rapidly create 300 word posts, game the system, and take up the first 5 pages of Google just so they can shell out another IM product & tell everybody: YOU CAN DO IT! (in a lil mexican voice).

[ExRat]

Hi Mark,

Any decent copywriter knows the importance of writing
sales copy with complete honesty.

Honesty is one of the most important facets of writing good
sales copy and is in fact, one of the key psychological triggers
that aid the selling process.

It must be pretty lonely out there on your own

I totally agree with you, but it appears that the majority of the 'leading lights' in IM totally disagree with you - based on their actions.

They seem to spend all of their time hiding their intentions, creating non-functioning customer support mechanisms and PR damage control exercises.

Hi Gary,

But wouldn't you think that most people who search for snow blowers are in fact actually looking to purchase one?

I just did a search and the top results included a wikipedia info article, a snow blower model info and review site, which included a snow thrower buyers guide and expert reviews on many models.

There were also a few sites selling snow blowers and of course google ads selling snow blowers.

What else would someone searching for snow blowers possibly want to find?

I agree. Snow blowers seems to be an unfortunate choice of search for this example, whereas many other search terms do cause the frustration Art is feeling. BTW Art - isn't it roasting hot in Spain? Are you running an artificial ski-slope or something?

AJD101,

Well that just goes to show why if you do it right and have quality informative content you will eventually rise to the top.

I'll take a one way ticket to the Utopia where you're currently residing, please.

[FifthDimension5]

Try variants of the keyword phrase - 'snow blower review' 'buy snow blower' 'snow blower comparison' etc. The more information you give to google about your intentions (ie product research vs ready to buy) the better is the quality of search results, if you are dissatisfied with any result you can use 'dissatisfied help us improve' link at the bottom to report the sites that include no useful info about snow blower yet mention somewhere snow blower and google has ranked them highly. Or try other search engine like yahoo, bing, etc. I searched for 'snow blowers' in stumpedia and it produced results from google and the results were relevant.

[Kezz]

That's why the term is Search Engine OPTIMIZATION, whereas a lot of people seem to have mistaken it for Search Engine TARGETING.

Everyone is so focused on pleasing the search engines, that they've forgotten to please the reader.

The first port of call should be to provide useful, valuable, helpful information to the reader, and then to optimize it for the search engines - not the other way around.

Search engines are trying to connect people with quality information, so in my book the best thing you can do for ranking, is provide quality information. If you then optimize as well, it's only a matter of time until the search engines establish the connection between you and the reader.

A little extra thought on how to actually be helpful will also go a long way towards conversion. Who ever landed on a page that made no sense, offered no help, and then went on to buy?

Who on the other hand has landed on a page that gave some really helpful information, offered a sincere referral, and then went on to buy?

We don't need to think of the search engines as the enemy, but as an ally. Just keep the same goal in mind as they have, that is to provide quality websites to internet users, and positive results should always be forthcoming.

[Jack Chua]

I agree with you Artwebster. I've experienced a lot of these unnecessary sites connected with the keyword that is not of relevance to such. I'm glad that Google is now working their way to filter each keyword content to the relevance of the site. Although this is not a very easy task to do but I can see its results now.

[Nicholas William]

mark...
I like how you create your own right hand margin with the response above, makes reading the content much easier than full page width.

but ya'r still a scurrrvy dog!

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by Gary McCaffrey

But wouldn't you think that most people who search for snow blowers are in fact actually looking to purchase one?snip

What else would someone searching for snow blowers possibly want to find?

Maybe an owner's manual, for a start. A troubleshooting guide, maybe? Recall information? Parts?

I can think of many things I might look for without the intent to buy a snow blower.

Originally Posted by FifthDimension5

Try variants of the keyword phrase - 'snow blower review' 'buy snow blower' 'snow blower comparison' etc.

Art is a smart cookie, and he never said 'snow blower' was the only search term he used.

Art, I've experienced the same thing you have - page after page of fluff articles, phony reviews and flogs, and so on. It's like those fancy coffee beans they process through a cat's digestive system. The stuff you want is there, but you have to pick through a lot of crap to find it.

As far as those sites with just a list of topics, I've found most of them are expired domains. Whatever entity controls them, slaps up a holding page with a list of possibly related key words linked to PPC ads or CPA offers.

[Kappa]

I think you do have to have a level of sophistication to find what you are looking for on the web. If you want straight information, chances are you should be looking for "snow blower repair" or even "snow blower mechanics" rather than just snow blower. For instance, if you want to find cheap car prices, don't search for "car deals" or "car bargains" search for "cars invoice price." You have to choose and use your words carefully. Good luck.

[Scott Ames]

I get upset when I do a search for medical information and all I find are affiliate sites selling this or that. Some even look like an authority site. This is downright dangerous. People rely on that information and it may be totally false.

We are marketers here and we understand the need to sell things. The problem is that people get greedy and as you say, put keywords where they don't belong to get traffic and all manner of spamish behavior. If as a group we don't throttle ourselves, government will and they won't do it gently. Look what happened recently with robo dialers. They are really a good idea and have a useful purpose, but they were abused and then taken away. Now even the good guys have to sweat bullets that the government will come down on them.

Affiliates linking directly to a sales page was fine for a long time until too may people starting doing it and messed it up for everyone.

I would bet that Google is aware of this and is working on a way to cut out the junk from their SERPs.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

It's the internet - It's a business and people do what works to get them on the first page.

With that being said though, I don't often have much trouble finding the info that I'm looking for as Google normally ranks decent content on the 1st page.

If I were looking for medical info etc I would not be searching I would just go directly to a site that I know can be trusted like webmd or something along those lines.

[Patrice Le Vexier]

IMO, it proves how dumb the Google algorithm is in spite of their thousands of employees and billions of dollars.

Marketers only exploit Google dumbness.

[Zeus66]

STOP! What are you people trying to do - get us all killed???

We have to lie low and stay out of sight. If you make Overlord Google angry with your complaints that the Master isn't giving us exactly what we want at all times :::: he'll take away our daily gruel ::::

I need my gruel. I'm hungry. Please stop making trouble. Just do what he says and smile a lot. OK? C'mon.

[ramone_johnny]

Originally Posted by Zeus66

STOP! What are you people trying to do - get us all killed???

We have to lie low and stay out of sight. If you make Overlord Google angry with your complaints that the Master isn't giving us exactly what we want at all times :::: he'll take away our daily gruel ::::

I need my gruel. I'm hungry. Please stop making trouble. Just do what he says and smile a lot. OK? C'mon.

Go back to twirling your moustache Johnno.

[Owen Mailer]

the problem is if you are like me i set up a site and chase as many buying keywords as is possible and for my lasest site its worked so i think maybe you have a point so im going to test it im going to build a information only site on exactly the same keywords and test the theory!! will it rank as well!!

[adamv]

Originally Posted by artwebster

It seems to me that marketers are defeating themselves by creating antipathy among web browsers by forever pushing genuine information sites further and further back in the search results. Certainly I am staggered at the difficulty there is now in finding information on the web.
If I could get there I'm sure my local library would be a faster source.

Marketers don't want information seekers at there sites, they want buyers. They want someone looking to buy that snow blower.

I believe that it's possible to put good information on a site in addition to selling products and that's what I try to do with my sites but if I was going to take the time to put up an information site about snow blowers I would try to sell one as well.

I don't agree with the tactics of some marketers but I don't think they care much if the information seeking non-buyer gets a little irritated. Maybe it will even be easier to sell things when people come to the internet to shop rather than just research.

Don't get me wrong, I do plenty of research on the internet and it is a great tool for gathering information. I just think that some marketers would prefer if there were less info and freebie seekers. Just a thought on the possible thought process of all of those unscrupulous snow blower salesmen.

[Intrepreneur]

Oh I think it's time for you to put Caffiene to the test..

Google Caffiene Here

[artwebster]

I just knew that using 'snow blower' as an example would finely focus minds on why searching for snow blower was foolish. I used 147 search terms for snow blower and they nearly all ended up with the same sites on view.

One search that really got me totally pee'd off was when I tried to do some research on a medical topic. The topic is a chronic disease from which I once suffered and which I had been asked to explain to a sufferer. The disease is not well known nor is it very common so I was staggered to find 23 pages of results for the term (which is Latin) offering every sort of bean, fruit, juice, hand laying ceremony, hot rock treatment, thermal bath and mud therapy all claiming to cure cancer, delicious tremblings, blindness, poverty and to get your whites whiter than white before I found any real information. To be blunt, many of these sites are dangerous and yet they are allowed to continue with their false claims, key word stuffing and lies.

As I ploughed through some of the dross I recognised techniques that were the subject of many ebooks and was apalled at the ignorance that was on display.

Leaving on a medical note. Did you know that orange juice can kill you?
Don't believe me?
Inject a rat with a gallon of it and see how long it survives.

[JayXtreme]

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

Hence the importance of very good copywriting.

Too many it appears today, don't want to pay anything out,
all they want is a fast return on their money and they don't
care how they do it. If this includes writing their own sales
copy, they're not worried about presenting highly factual
and truthful information which aids their own credibility online.

Any decent copywriter knows the importance of writing
sales copy with complete honesty.

Honesty is one of the most important facets of writing good
sales copy and is in fact, one of the key psychological triggers
that aid the selling process.

Inexperienced marketers on the other hand, trying to scrimp
on a few dollars and actually hurting their own pocket, their
bank balance... think nothing of writing sales copy for keyword
benefit only, under the false illusion that it is more important
to simply get to the top of the search engine results.

This eventually will hurt a lot of marketer's online as Google,
understandably will come down on such sites in the future,
quite possibly very heavily.

As the OP stated, it is becoming more and more difficult these
days to find the actual information that you require on almost
any topic, product or niche, without running into an endless
stream of absolute dribble first.

Is this greed? Are we so consumed by our own desire for money
at whatever cost, that we are prepared to lie and cheat and
give false information about the products or services, that we
are selling?

The end result of this is that searchers of information online,
their bull**** detectors will simply be raised higher than ever.

Hiring a darn good copywriter, the benefits cannot be
underestimated.

Good copywriting, that is honest and credible, and has integrity
will always give you a much higher return on your investment
than simply writing copy for SEO benefits only.

Good sales copy is not about lying or bull****ting your intended
target audience. Nothing will put off your potential buyers more
than BS.

Joe Sugarman, one of the world's copywriting great's had this to
say about copywriting honesty...

"Your advertising must be honest ... Consumers are very smart
-- smarter than you think and smarter collectively than any
single one of us. With all the experience I have in marketing
products and with all the product knowledge I've gained over
the past 35 years, you can take my word for it, the consumer
is quite sharp.

The consumer can also tell whether people are truthful in what
they are trying to communicate. And the more truthful you are
in your advertising, the more effectively your message will be
accepted by your prospects.

Try to lie in your copy and you are only deceiving yourself. Your
copy will say what you think you wanted it to say, but it will
also say what you thought you covered up. Even a reader who
hurries over your copy can feel the difference."

If that is the case, presenting false information, for search
engine benefit only, without concentrating on the core purpose
of your marketing sales copy - you can seriously affect
negatively. your bank balance.

Write with more honesty and a lot more people online will
appreciate what you are trying to convey to them. They will
be much more inclined to buy your product or service as
a result.

At the end of the year, you can market yourself falsely,
without a care in the world for high ideals, presenting at
best spurious information and receive x amount of orders.

Or... you can write and/or market yourself online with real
integrity and honesty, which will naturally aid your own
credibility and receive as a result, the long term benefit of
seeing a significant increase in the rate of your conversions.

The positive result of this will be a lot more money in your
pocket as people have more trust, dealing with you online
and elsewhere.

It's folly to believe that you can just fling words together,
with no structure, no understanding of the salesmanship
process online in print, and be as successful as you truly
believe you should be.

Which is why hiring a darn good, respected copywriter will be
very good for your business. They will instinctively know what
psychological triggers to implement into your sales copy and
what
perhaps more importantly - to leave out of it.

If you can invest in a very good copywriter, I assure you now
that it will be well worth it in the long run. You have a great
choice of some excellent copywriters to choose from, right on
this very forum ... simply head off to the Warrior Copywriting
Forum and take your pick.

I hope that someone here, finds this information useful to them.

Best regards.


Mark Andrews

lol.. what a stunning example of how to turn a forum reply into a gentle pitch for your services, Mark

[Shana_Adam]

Saying that google do have some fantastic tools to give you a 360 degree experience

underneath the search box is a blue bar with the + sign you can get a better experience using that.

otherwise you can come across a load of pure junk

[ucheboy]

Hi,

Yes, I really agree with you. I have come to realise that most top seraches you find in google searches are all seeking to promote one product or the other. The real sites that contain quality contents are most of the time push back to assume later pages in Google ranking.

This is rather sad but what can we do?. Google is out to make money and will always rank the highly paid ads very high, almost always on the first page. Not everyone searching for information goes beyond the first page.

I really don't think that there is anything one can do about that. Google is out to make money

Uche Nwaobi

[l23bc]

yes i know what you mean, intresting topic to talk about?

i did a blog a while on "health and essentials of eating healthy" and i get beat by rankings on google by spammy sites who are trying to sell something when all the infomation they sell on their site is free on my blog, Tried to get ranking by the usual ways hubpages squiddo ect,

Google is really hard at the moment by trying to get rid of review sites and re direct affilate sites that dont have content updated,

At present,Google is king of the internet ring until yahoo or bing get into higher gear i beleive.

[mmurtha]

Originally Posted by Kezz

That's why the term is Search Engine OPTIMIZATION, whereas a lot of people seem to have mistaken it for Search Engine TARGETING.

Everyone is so focused on pleasing the search engines, that they've forgotten to please the reader.

Hey Kezz,

That's one of the smartest comments in this thread!

Btw, not all people, just some. Lol can't assume the whole bunch is spoiled yet because a few are rotten.

[Julian Lockhart]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

lol.. what a stunning example of how to turn a forum reply into a gentle pitch for your services, Mark

I gave you a thanks but really need more buttons.

Cause I would have clicked "ROTFLMAO".

Marks post was useful, though. Nothing wrong with it.

EDIT: I also believe that Art's commentary is very valid. The big problem is that a lot of these "so called" marketers think their content is "excellent". I believe I am sometimes guilty of this skewed "point of view" as well.

Wish I had the solution. I bet googleplex does too. I bet you do too.

[Matt Maiden]

There is a link right alongside the search bar that says "Advanced Search".

When you click on that link you will see a form that allows you to put tailored information about how you want Google to search.

I just did a search using "snow blower history" and got the history of the snow blower.
Even better, "snow blower was invented".
Put a restriction on words "compare prices", "order", "join mailing list".


Matt

[misterwrecker]

I don't know, I remember back in the day when I used to search for information on Yahoo (when they were no. 1) I use to have to search pages and pages sometimes to find what I was looking for.

Sometimes over 20 pages!

Now I'm not complaining because it was still was more convenient than the offline methods available.

Now when I search Google I just about never have to go past page 1.

And Yes Wiki does answer a lot of questions that I have.




-John

[sevenish]

I don't think G ranks for metadata as much as it does for on-page content. I don't have that many issues, but it may have more to do with how I express my search criteria.

That said, I remember back before Google when you might do a search on Yahoo! for, say, "oven mitts" and you'd get pages and pages of results for porn sites.

[NightWriter]

It is definitely harder to find good information for free on the internet these days.

Sometimes I find that I have better luck finding info when I use a search engine other than google.

(*sigh!*) I'm new, so this thing won't let me post links. My favorite alternative search engine is Ixquick.com. I've been using it for years. Sometimes, although, not always, it yields better results.

[mRamses]

I would have to say 9 times out of ten I do find what I am looking for on page 1.

Interesting, I can't say how I am able to do this compared to what is being said here.

There's really 2 sides to this issue. If we're just talking about the user experience and the search engine returning relevant results on the first page, there will always be a gap.

No matter how good search engine algorithms get, they will never be mind readers. Users will type in incomplete keywords and get incomplete results. Users who type in descriptive keywords will get their desired results on the first page.

Not to pick on the original poster, but had you typed "about snow blowers" instead of "snow blowers", you probably would have gotten what you were looking for on the first page. (Assuming you were looking for information about snow blowers and how they work)

This is one of the reasons why, in my opinion, as the Internet community becomes more savy in regard to searching, it will be more lucrative to make money on the Long Tail.

[Kezz]

Originally Posted by mmurtha

Hey Kezz,

That's one of the smartest comments in this thread!

Btw, not all people, just some. Lol can't assume the whole bunch is spoiled yet because a few are rotten.

Yes, right you are, but there is a loooot of focus on keyword density and so on. It just doesn't seem to be very often you come across advice about SEO that covers creating quality at the same time.

There's some great tips about quality copywriting for sales, but I'd like to see some more practical advice circulating about how to write with quality on a lower scale, and still get your SEO in as well.

[Gail Sober]

I can get a pretty accurate feel for what I'll find on the website by simply scanning the title, description and url on the search results page but I can tell from watching my wife and kids that it doesn't come so naturally for everyone and they almost always will click on the first result and work their way down the page.

I've tried to show them some better searching techniques
Boolean Searching on the Internet

but I guess that just doesn't come naturally for some either.

[artwebster]

Not to pick on the original poster, but had you typed "about snow blowers" instead of "snow blowers", you probably would have gotten what you were looking for on the first page. (Assuming you were looking for information about snow blowers and how they work)

To repeat,

I used 147 search terms for snow blowers including such things as techniques, spares availability, safety measures and so on. I know snow blowers was a bad exampole to give because everybody seems to have latched onto that as the crux of my post.

Strange that there has been no comment about the medical search which was simply the name of the disease and researchers who were looking into modified treatment today.

Did you know that akai berry juice at a concentration of 0 .034% cures all known ills? I read it on a web site so it must be true!

[adamv]

In the post I made above I was not "latching on" to the snow blower. I was just pointing out that marketers are going to market and while I don't agree with all of the tactics people use (especially when making medical claims) I think there are a lot of marketers that don't care if they irritate someone who is a searcher and not a buyer.

[Martin Luxton]

Originally Posted by Kezz

Yes, right you are, but there is a loooot of focus on keyword density and so on. It just doesn't seem to be very often you come across advice about SEO that covers creating quality at the same time.

There's some great tips about quality copywriting for sales, but I'd like to see some more practical advice circulating about how to write with quality on a lower scale, and still get your SEO in as well.

What's the connection between SEO and quality content?

Science vs. Art

Martin

[Kay King]

A snow blower is a garden product? Oh boy - and wonder why search results can be screwy.

Use advanced search, use the word "information", and go to manufacturers and home improvement sites to find info on snow blowers.

what a stunning example of how to turn a forum reply into a gentle pitch for your services

that was gentle?

Many of those sites are filled with SEO fodder, not quality writing. The point is to attract the visitor to your site through the internet search and have him quickly leave through one of the links on your site.

Surely on a marketing forum we understand that method. We may not like or use it (or at least say we don't use it) - but we know it works for lots of site owners.

kay

[artwebster]

Hi, Kay,
Snow blowers, rick-shaws, fingerless mittens, silver frames, head ache pills . . . that is the sort of disparate list of topics I am coming across on too many sites.
I am coming across too many sites that pretend to contain information but only contain an invitation to buy their information product that has been ripped out of a public domain source.
I am coming across too many sites that use exactly the same article to try to claim they are providing value.
Today I needed to find information on sub retinal bleeding and nearly had a heart attack when I was not told how jinjywopfer juice could cure it. It seems that marketers have not found that particular key word yet.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Art, no offense intended, but jeeze are you a cranky dude!

I'm not sure I've read a post of yours on this forum that wasn't at least in a small way some sort of rant. Surely that can't be good for you

I'm not saying your not right lol - Just making an observation

[HeySal]

Geez o petz - of course google turns up some ridiculous results when you search. Marketers optimize to get seen - that is a natural state of marketing, (although there are a lot of purely crap sites out there). At this point of the game, algorithms are the most efficient means to pull info from pages.

It is also true that for some subjects the first responses you are going to get are the ones that are well paid for by the promoter.......google is a business, too.

That is why when you want the real nitty gritty -- you do a DEEP search instead of just google keyword play.

Art - when you google "badassdiease causes" you are going to get websites optimized for sales of incredible cures. If you search Pub-Med you will get a list of relevant research papers written by the researchers of the diseases who are knowledgeable about the biology and symptomology as well as of any substances that can either exascerbate or alliviate the causes.

HOW we search is not for google to decide. Perhaps if we learned as much about searching as most know about optimizing websites, research would not be a difficult procedure.

[eaglechick]

Mark touched some very basic internet marketing principles. Seems like
the moment some marketers enter the IM arena they forget about
sticking to old-fashioned honesty and values.

Artwebster - the best thing to do is : google - how to search the internet effectively. There is a lot of tips and tricks on the first page that will help
you find the info you're looking for quicker.

Searching the internet has become an art in itself.

[SantiSantana]

Well, the heading if this thread seems like the perfect beginning to the research and development of an information packed, relevant, well researched, SEO optimized website that would inform the people, build credibility and... you know the drill. I dont think you are bothered by the fact everyone is trying to sell something. I think the real problem is the lack of diferentiation. People are not trying hard enough.

It happens a lot in bricks and mortar businesses, people don't make an effort to differentiate themselves and put their profits before customer satisfaction. Then they wonder why is not working for them.

[Clark]

Walk into Home Depot, find someone (an expert) with an orange apron, stand in front of their face and say, "Snow Blower".

The immediate reaction of the dude in the orange apron is to point toward aisle 8 then wait for you to either ask a more defined question or walk away.

The same is true if you walked up to a stranger on the street and said "Snow Blower". You'd receive a perplexed look on the stranger's face followed by, "What do you want?" which then prompts you to ask a more defined question otherwise the stranger will walk away.

Stand in front of the newly crowned 2009 Ice Princess at the Annual Winter Carnival then say "Snow Blower" and you'll be sure to receive a swift slap across the face

Regardless, Jeremy's post nailed this thread shut.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Art, no offense intended, but jeeze are you a cranky dude!

I'm not sure I've read a post of yours on this forum that wasn't at least in a small way some sort of rant. Surely that can't be good for you

I'm not saying your not right lol - Just making an observation

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by artwebster

Today I needed to find information on sub retinal bleeding and nearly had a heart attack when I was not told how jinjywopfer juice could cure it. It seems that marketers have not found that particular key word yet.

They know it now. Besides, everyone knows jinjywopfer juice won't cure that. You need concentrated jinjywopfer extract, available at a bargain price at...

[David Snape]

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

Hence the importance of very good copywriting.

Too many it appears today, don't want to pay anything out,
all they want is a fast return on their money and they don't
care how they do it. If this includes writing their own sales
copy, they're not worried about presenting highly factual
and truthful information which aids their own credibility online.

Any decent copywriter knows the importance of writing
sales copy with complete honesty.

Mark you are absolutely right. And in fact, there are tons of people out there who rip others off on a daily basis. They do make claims that are not true. Some of the WSOs are run by scam artists. I feel that I've been ripped 2 and possibly three times by WSOs that didn't deliver on their promise - or even come close.

Many of these people just like in the greater IM community are trying to rely on the fact that most people will not ask for a refund, even if they feel cheated.


Taking advantage of people like that is bad karma.......

[artwebster]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Art, no offense intended, but jeeze are you a cranky dude!

I'm not sure I've read a post of yours on this forum that wasn't at least in a small way some sort of rant. Surely that can't be good for you

I'm not saying your not right lol - Just making an observation

Hi, Jeremy,
Me? Cranky?
I'm just more open and willing to see bad practice and talk about it.
I gave up "Every day in every way I am getting better" about the same tiome that my doctors told my first wife to not go home because I would not live through the night. That was forty years ago.
I don't believe that self regulation works but I do believe that if people can see that they are behaving like anal sphincters you have a chance to see them change.
Today I saw the same article about hydroponics on 37 web sites and attributed to 19 people. Even the idea of coincidence won't accept 19 people writing the same article at the same time in exactly the same word order and containing exactly the same bad information. (Hint - looking for TDS results and significance don't believe a word they say).
Cranky people are only cranky because the sheeple hear the Judas bell and trot quietly to their doom while we look on and wonder . . .
At least I have not heard "Oooohhh - You are soooo negative."






Yet.