Anyone else getting tired of this

8 years ago

I got kind of pissed when I bought a software product from a big name marketer, then a couple weeks or months later he was promoting a product as an affiliate that was a direct competitor of his own product.

He got called out for it in the fb group and came up with some lame excuse that I don't even remember now.

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JohnMcCabe

8 years ago

Product launches seem to have seasons, and late summer is one of the more active. What you are seeing is a group of marketers who all came up the ranks together and they are promoting each others' launches. When their launch comes up, it will be the other person's turn to promote.

If you look closely, you'll see that none of these courses are direct competitors, as in teaching the same set of tactics. Next to my chair I have five books by marketers, probably some of the same ones pissing you off, that if you take their assorted systems and weave them together you end up with a whole greater than the parts.

Whether you choose to learn from these guys (the fact that they do promote each other is a clue all by itself) or be pissed off by the concentrated emails that accompany a JV launch, rest assured that the wave will pass.

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kilgore

8 years ago

If you read this, you'll understand what's going on:
Scamworld: 'Get rich quick' schemes mutate into an online monster | The Verge

An excerpt:

Eventually, Jenkins and I discuss The Syndicate. It began in late 2006, he says, as a mastermind, or peer support group. A mastermind is a concept that mostly exists in the business world, and it derives from a depression-era book called Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. In the book, Hill describes "a coordination of knowledge and effort, in a spirit of harmony between two or more people, for the attainment of a definite purpose."

According to Jenkins, a bunch of Internet Marketers decided to start this mastermind, "so we wrote down The Syndicate, syndicate@listbox.com, and it just sort of stuck. But at the time in 2006, it was me and Brad Fallon, and then Frank [Kern] came along... and we all just sort of rose in the marketplace."

"The name stuck, and then Jason Jones, The Salty Droid, got a hold of it, and thought it was this massive conspiracy of price fixing and illegal offshore money laundering," Jenkins laughs. "Then, that was sort of 'beware of the boogie man, The Syndicate. They're out there going to strip clubs and taking your money' and that kind of thing."

He describes the list of "about fourteen" members as a blend of technical discussion, entrepreneurship, product launches, "and about twenty percent dick jokes."

As you'd imagine, Jones has a different take on this. "The Syndicate, as they call themselves," he says, "is a group of twelve or so Internet Marketers who early on decided that they would all band together, work together against the interest of the customers, to maximize the amount of money they can make [and] to really game social proof" by flooding the internet with fake reviews and testimonials.

"The only reason that Frank Kern is a 'big guy' or he's described like a 'genius' in Internet Marketing is because all these other, non-geniuses have agreed to call him a genius," Jones says. "And he's not a genius: he doesn't have any interesting insights into marketing, [his products are] just a bunch of rehashed garbage."

Fake social proof and syndicates are the real drivers of sales in Internet Marketing, according to Jones, and the Syndicate are representative of a much bigger problem.

"Fortunately," says Jones, "for the sake of illustrating my point one group decided to call themselves 'The Syndicate,' to make it really clear what's going on. Most of these niches have a group like that. The top group in Internet Marketing, The Syndicate, they teach other people to form these groups. Frank Kern says, 'You got to run your business like a Mafia-like organization.' He just straight out says it, and he's right, too. That's his one great insight: if you're not part of the insider cartel in the scam niche you're in, you're going to fail. You're going to fail."

"Just to really drive that home," Kern says in the Criminal Confession video, "it's probably very obvious to you, that all the top people in the Internet Marketing space promote each other, right? What you might not know is that a lot of the top people are in a 'trade union.' Because now I view my former competitors as partners."

Is what you're observing simply a case of entrepreneurs forming a peer support group to the benefit of everyone? Or is it a group who is banding together to overhype shoddy products to the detriment of their customers?

Honestly, I've never bought or even read anything from these guys, so I'll leave that judgement to you. But whether what these (mostly) guys are doing is beneficial or detrimental, I do think this explains why they're all promoting each other's products in the way you've observed.

Thanks
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SteveSki 8 years ago

The solution to your problem is simple.

Stop buying and start selling.

If you stay on their list, you have to expect the gurus
will try to sell you additional products because that's what
they do.... sell stuff. Do what they do.

Cheers,
Steve
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- George Schwab 8 years ago
  
  [DELETED]
  
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  aizaku 8 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by George Schwab
  
  i agree - totally - start selling
  
  and dont unsubscribe from their list
  
  the marketing lessons from these guys are priceless
  
  True,
  
  Don't UNSUBSCRIBE
  
  You're getting a free lesson on email marketing and sales copy.
  
  Take note of the frequency of emails. Hard and soft sales, etc...
  
  Best of luck,
  Ike Paz
  
  Thanks
  
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Long Beach Nathan

8 years ago

Originally Posted by kilgore

If you read this, you'll understand what's going on:
Scamworld: 'Get rich quick' schemes mutate into an online monster | The Verge

An excerpt:

Is what you're observing simply a case of entrepreneurs forming a peer support group to the benefit of everyone? Or is it a group who is banding together to overhype shoddy products to the detriment of their customers?

Honestly, I've never bought or even read anything from these guys, so I'll leave that judgement to you. But whether what these (mostly) guys are doing is beneficial or detrimental, I do think this explains why they're all promoting each other's products in the way you've observed.

Ah, thanks for that quote. That is so shady and shameful and dishonest of those people. I can't stand how people are willing to tell all sorts of lies because of their greed.

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trobo

8 years ago

You mentioned you've gotten some good info from them can't decide if you want to opt out of their list.

Do they give exclusive material to their list that isn't also posted on their site/blog? Or do they just mail their list whenever a new post goes on their blog?

If the latter is the case, just opt out of the list and visit their blog once a week to catch up on the new stuff.

I've had to do this to a few folks, and my inbox (and my sanity) has thanked me for it.

Thanks

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aizaku

8 years ago

WELCOME TO THE MMO NICHE

That's common practice, especially if the well know marketers are coming out with a new product.

Right now, it's Mark Ling's new product so im sure you've seen this down the email pipes.

All the best,
Ike Paz

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nicheblogger75

8 years ago

Originally Posted by aizaku

WELCOME TO THE MMO NICHE

That's common practice, especially if the well know marketers are coming out with a new product.

Right now, it's Mark Ling's new product so im sure you've seen this down the email pipes.

All the best,
Ike Paz

Yup. It's a hugely profitable niche.

It's the niche I'm in, and I promote a lot of different products from "top marketers." I make a great living doing it.

However, it's no "syndicate," or anything else of the type. That's a joke as far as I'm concerned. If a few big "brick and mortar" companies get together and decide to sell each other's products out of their stores, does that make them a "syndicate?" NO. It makes them smart because they use each other's marketing power to promote their own products.

There is absolutely no difference between that and what is being done here.

What the actual name for it is is great business, not a "syndicate."

It stands to reason that when you work together toward one goal everyone is going to make a lot more money.

However, I don't promote products that I don't own myself.

I'm to the point now that I know a lot of the "top marketers" because I've done successful promotions for them, so I rarely have to buy any products anymore. I get them all for free just by asking. It's common practice for marketers to give good JVs review copies.

Anyway, my point is, it's not a sleazy niche unless you make it one.

I don't promote a lot of the products that I review, because I don't think they are worthwhile to help my subscribers.

One of the reasons that a lot of my subscribers buy products through my affiliate links is simply because they know that I own the product and have used it myself.

If a marketer has a product or two and they get subscribers on their list, they aren't just going to promote one or two products. Once a subscriber buys their product, what are they supposed to do? Not promote to them anymore because they already bought their product? That's just nuts. Buyers are the absolute best leads. Of course you are going to promote other products to them, and if you don't have any more of your own products, then you promote other's products as an affiliate.

I have to laugh sometimes at people who get angry at marketers for selling and making money.

That's what we're in it for. Yes, putting out good products and quality and helping others is super important, but in the end this is about MAKING MONEY.

My advice is stop getting mad at people for making money and learn how they are doing it and start making money yourself.

And as far as dozens of marketers getting together, that's not totally true. Sure, "top" marketers may promote a lot of other marketer's products, but usually they only get together in groups of two or three to launch products.

Sometimes I think people feel that internet marketers should feel guilty about selling and making money. Personally, I'll never feel guilty about making money online. It's a great living and a fun business, and I love it and will never do anything else!

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PeterComeau

8 years ago

Unfortunately this is part and parcel of the JV syndicates. 'You scratch my back etc' translated to 'You promote my product and I'll promote yours'

Look on any JV affiliate page and you'll see this mentioned.

Internet Marketing is a business that thrives on its affiliates. Therefore JV deals are to be expected.

However I still maintain that a good affiliate shouldn't promote something he wouldn't sell to his mother and feel good about it.

I do get fed up with marketers who's advice I value sending me promo emails for stuff which is, frankly, beneath their dignity and mine.
For example why should a marketer who's course I bought for $197 send me a promo to Alex Jeffrey's latest $7 offer?

Unfortunately it seems to be a factor in this IM business that is difficult to get away from.

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MarkJukov

8 years ago

It's something you gotta live with. Everyone, including "top marketers", are trying to earn that buck.

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Isaiah Jackson

8 years ago

Simple solution for this:

1 - Unsubscribe from their lists

2 - Stop buying and start selling

Problem solved.

Try it, it may work for you.

Isaiah

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Azlan.MY

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Isaiah Jackson

Simple solution for this:

1 - Unsubscribe from their lists

2 - Stop buying and start selling

Problem solved.

Try it, it may work for you.

Isaiah

Yeah, unsubscribe from their list if you don't like those. If the problem persist simply filter their emails, or in my case I usually click the report spam button.

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TenaciousGrease

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Azlan.MY

Yeah, unsubscribe from their list if you don't like those. If the problem persist simply filter their emails, or in my case I usually click the report spam button.

You opt-in to their list, agreeing to let them email you - then report them as SPAM when they send you a promotion?

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nicheblogger75 8 years ago

Originally Posted by TenaciousGrease

You opt-in to their list, agreeing to let them email you - then report them as SPAM when they send you a promotion?

You'd be surprised how many people do this.

I should write a book about all of the complaints and responses I've gotten from some people that have subscribed to my list.

Now, you might say that's because I'm not doing what I promised to do when they opted in, or I didn't give them what I promised them when they opted in, etc.

That's absolutely NOT the case.

As far as marketers who are in the "MMO/IM" niche, I feel like I'm one of the better marketers.

I send a lot of good free products to my list and provide them with a lot of good, quality free information.

However, some of them still get mad when I send out a promo.

I've resigned myself to the belief that people who get mad are probably people that I don't want on my list anyway, and they are probably people that will never succeed online.

That may sound harsh, but there are literally tens of thousands of people who think that are going to jump on their computer and work a few hours a day for a week and the profits are just going to magically start rolling in.

These are people that simply don't understand how business works. They don't understand the hours and hours of hard work that I put in to get my business to the point it's at today.

They don't understand that it took me almost three years before I was able to make a full-time income from my online business, and they don't understand that I worked 50 hours at a regular job at the same time I was building my online business.

I read threads in this forum all the time with titles like "Lost my job and I need $500 by the end of the week," or "I have $100 to invest. What should I do?"

Well, guess what? If you lost your job and you have no established online presence at all you are not going to be able to make $500 by the end of the week. You probably won't be able to make $500 by the end of 90 days.

If all you have is $100 to invest, you should probably put it in your savings or checking account and save it, because you are not going to start a successful online business with $100.

I'm sorry if I sound like a negative person. I'm actually the exact opposite. I'm a very positive person, but I am also a realist.

People have to use common sense. If it sounds too good to be true, then IT IS.

If you land on a sales page that promises you can make $3K per month without your own product, without a list, without SEO, without Facebook ads, without Bing or Adwords, without any paid advertising, without your own website, etc, and you buy that product, then you have nobody but yourself to blame when it doesn't work out.

Now, on the flip side. Unfortunately, there are lots of marketers in the "MMO" niche who have no problem creating sales pages with copy that is way out in left field and that they know is total BS.

People can talk about the FTC all they want, and the FTC does a good job with what they have to work with, but the sad truth is that the FTC could never police every marketer who is using outrageous copy.

So what does it all mean?

It means people need to exercise common sense and to do their due diligence before purchasing any digital products, or physical products for that matter.

I don't blame the consumer for all of the problems that exist ion the MMO niche, though. A lot of it has to do with the marketers who are making these insane promises that they know they just cannot keep.

Unfortunately, this means that there are affiliates who are going to promote these products to their lists, and there are people who are going to buy these products, and it's going to leave a bad taste in some people's mouths.

This is bad for every Internet Marketer because people tend to put all marketers into the same category when they get a bad product. It leads to articles like the one about the so-called "syndicate."

I guess what I'm trying to say is that both sides are to blame. There are dishonest marketers who put out products that are sheer junk, and then there are consumers who decide to believe the hype even though deep down inside they know it's crap.

The message here is people need to be real. Think about the product you are going to buy. If someone had discovered a method or system that would allow them to make $3K per month without a list, website, etc, why on earth would they need to turn around and sell it to others for $7?

They wouldn't. They would keep it to themselves and exploit it for as long as they possibly could and they would probably even denounce the method so others wouldn't try it.

Does that mean that all "MMO" products are garbage? Absolutely not. There are tons of great products and software out there that I've used to successfully help me build my business, and those are the products that I'm going to promote to my subscribers because they are proven to work and proven to help.

That's how you build a good relationship with your list and that's how you get them to buy through you and not the dozens of other marketers who have promoted the same product to them.

There is a right way and a wrong way. A lot of people are doing it the wrong way, but there are also a lot of people doing it the right way.

In the end, I always find that honesty and showing your subscribers that you won't promote any product to them that you don't own and love yourself is a winning recipe.

Show your subscribers that the product you are promoting has give you positive and proven results, and offer them great bonuses to purchase through your link, and you are going to be able to stand out from the crowd.

If you just go off and promote every product under the sun just because everyone else is promoting it, you'll still get some sales, but little by little your reputation will crumble.

My advice is to keep it simple, keep it honest, and provide your subscribers with good quality information and whenever you promote a product to them, make a video and show them that you own the product and show them that you have gotten positive results with it.

Be 100% transparent with your subscribers and you will never have a problem making sales and your will have extremely low refund rates.

One thing I always do when I promote a quality product is to make a blog post and send my subscribers there and not directly to the sales page.

I set my blog posts up like this:

PRODUCT IMAGE

BLOG POST INTRO (50-100 WORDS)

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION (300-500 WORDS)

PROS AND CONS (100-300 WORDS)

VIDEO SHOWING RESULTS AND GIVING AN "INSIDER" LOOK AT THE PRODUCT

LIST OF BONUSES FOR PURCHASING THROUGH MY LINK

CALL TO ACTION (AFFILIATE LINK)

OPT-IN FORM TO SIGN UP FOR MY BLOG'S NEWSLETTER

That's just my own personal formula, and for me it works great. If you own the product and keep it honest, you will be doing your part to keep your promise to your subscribers and you will be helping to provide a positive image for marketers in the "MMO" niche.
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superowid

8 years ago

Use 2 different email addresses. 1 for personal & 1 for IM journey.

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TenaciousGrease

8 years ago

Originally Posted by marks2424

I come to this site often to read questions see the answers as well as ask questions my self. I have a different question today and it is.

Is anyone else getting tired of getting e-mails from the people you signed up for their news letters because they are supposed top marketers and sell their own courses for online marketing, but they are selling every other course that seems to pop up.

I signed up for about 4 newsletters from some very top marketers, if I listed them you would all recognize them. However since I think January every one of them plus some I didn't sign up for are trying to sell me the exact same thing every time another top guy is selling their system.

Often I think why are they trying to sell me someone else's system don't they think their system is good anymore. I will sometimes ask why are they selling this and will get the answer of their system is only one very good way of making money online but there are many more great ways to make money as well and that is why they are selling someones system too.

To me that answer is just crap as it seems like it is all about money and trying to promote someones system as an affiliate and making money selling another system.

I don't know if I want to cancel their newsletters because they often have webinars with some good information but man it seems like it has gotten out of hand lately. Getting 10 and 15 e-mails from different people every week promoting the same thing is getting out of control.

It's called email marketing man, try it sometime you'll find it's quite profitable. Just take the time to build a RELATIONSHIP with your list, ask for their feedback, offer them help - THEN it'll be YOUR promotional emails they'll be opening because they think of you as more than just a name in their inbox

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EPoltrack77

8 years ago

You should take a break for a while and come back when your more positive!

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Brent Stangel

8 years ago

To me that answer is just crap as it seems like it is all about money and trying to promote someones system as an affiliate and making money selling another system.

You are just now figuring that out?

You are in IM because you want to give money away??

It's really all about helping people change their lives because you care about them so gosh darn much.

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maxsi

8 years ago

GO FOR IT => Stop buying and start selling

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DABK

8 years ago

Psst! I'll tell you a couple of secrets. But you have to promise to not tell anyone. Promise?

Good.

Here they are:
Top marketers market.
Top marketers are top marketers because
1. they market consistently
2. they market to people who are known to have bought similar things
3. they are good at getting people to buy from them.

Your options, as many have pointed out are:
1. Whine (so far you're doing great but it's not making you happier or richer)
2. Unsubscribe (it will make you happier but not richer)
3. Study them pitches (it will make you both happier and richer, if you apply what you learn).

Nanoo nanoo!
DABK out!

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George Schwab 8 years ago

[QUOTE=DABK;10828601 t

Nanoo nanoo!
DABK out![/QUOTE]

right on!

one day the warrior forum staff will have enough credibility
to actually delete forum posts like this

at the moment they dont

and some people hire guys like that

i would not

you guys dont know how to deal with this

and you think you are in business right

someone has to to streamline your biz

i'm available - but not that cheap afterall
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Anthony J Namata

8 years ago

When you subscribe to lists, expect the mail to come flooding in. There's no way out. If you're fed up you can always elect to NOT read any of them. Thank heavens for the DELETE button. It's SO handy.

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donnysan

8 years ago

There's a simple solution to this problem. Just use a separate email address. Go to gmail. Create an email address that you use exclusively for websites that ask for email address where you don't to receive their junk mail. You email address: yourname_spam@gmail.com That's what I do. It works great.

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DavePalermo

8 years ago

Here's my take in a nutshell.
The big name marketers (that I used to follow) would promote somebody's crap. They in turn would use one of their own products as a "Bonus" (God I hate that word) to entice you to buy.
Now of course they make money. Who doesn't like bonus?

And to quote what was said above..."The only reason that Frank Kern is a 'big guy' or he's described like a 'genius' in Internet Marketing is because all these other, non-geniuses have agreed to call him a genius," Jones says. "And he's not a genius: he doesn't have any interesting insights into marketing, [his products are] just a bunch of rehashed garbage."

Rehashed garbage or not, Frank Kern is laughing all the way to the bank.

But one thing nobody brought up is the fact that the MMO niche always has people, unlike people on this forum that know the BS some marketers try to pull, that don't know the routine. They are completely new, aren't on this forum, and all they see are $$$$$$$$$$$$ and don't realize the games.

We were all once new to this shit, let's face it.
As long as you can sell "Hopes and Dreams" people will buy it.
And the Bonus doesn't hurt either.

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discrat

8 years ago

Yes, I've seen the good ole boy's club a lot. The same Leader board of people constantly on everyone els'e newest Launch.

There are a few that are legit and I respect (Tiff Lambert, Barb Ling. Paul Myers to name a few) But there are some where it's a big back and forth game with not a whole lot of Value in the Courses , from what I have seen at least.

- Robert Andrew

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Ellen Chedid

7 years ago

is stuff like this that gives email marketing a bad name. The marketer should do its best to avoid spam complaints by providing relevant and reliable information or products.

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timng

7 years ago

Hi,

This is about the same as any line of business carry out their sales operations. Even in traditional brick and mortar business, if you agree to be in their snail mail list, they will send you their regular offers via your physical mail box. If you are not in favour of receiving such mails from them, call them to cancel your residence address from their list, and they will stop the snail mails. Likewise, in the internet marketing world,you can free yourself from the "agony" through opting out of the autoresponder mailing list.

However, do bear in mind that if you wish to stay in the internet marketing world for long, you may eventually be creating your own products. If you do one day have your own products, you will have to rely on the exact people who piss you off through their promotions, to promote your products to others. Therefore, we just have to accept this give and take, reciprocity relationship.

Seriously, one day, you will need affiliates, particularly, Super Affiliates, to help drive traffic to your website and purchase your product.

Tim

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markGustaff

7 years ago

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Nico Puegher

7 years ago

Most gurus are insane these days, they don't even care about value they want more and more money that's why I stick with normal people and not this "millionaires".