UPDATE: I solved a BIG Azz problem for a very wealthy client today...

[winebuddy]

and now he wants to know "how much" he should pay me... WOO HOO

This guy donates a million or more to his fav charity or football team at the drop of a hat.

All I did was get his biz site to the top and added optin and followup!

So - he has been spending money on his "website" for the last 10 years with no results.

What should I ask? How much should I suggest? I need suggestions - I am meeting with him on Thursday

UPDATE: It's not what you think and it didn't turn out how you think. There was a lot going on in the shop and he THANKED ME and said "GOOD JOB". The subject quickly went to other things and then he was gone... There really wasn't an opportunity to even bring it up. The good thing is that I have another opportunity next Wednesday.

I was going to use the "whatever you think it's worth approach since we didn't discuss it" - but the opportunity didn't happen. You would have had to have been there. Not once in the conversation was there an opening to talk about a fee. Nor did he ask.

On a side note, I got to my office this morning and it was totally flooded from a break in a water pipe from an upstairs office. My mind was a little frazzeled by the time I met with the guy. Insurance adjusters and water damage people all over the place. Today was a VERY EXCITING DAY.

on Wednesday of next week - I am just going to SAY IT. That's the plan for now - what say you?

[fthomas137]

Ask him. He may surprise even you. If he is truly grateful, then he'll tell you the payment. Word it like this....

You know, I know that I'm really the best when it comes to x,y,z (remind him), and we've seen stunning results with your website. For example, 1,2,3. Now, here's my dilemma, and I need your help. I've become an expert in this profession with my own projects and have done quite well. But you know, I'm just not sure what I should be charging for what we've accomplished. I did do some hunting around at comparison pricing, but I just don't know if they will perform as good as I've done to get the results you are getting. What do you think?

Something like that. I normally find that a client will pay 3 or 4 times more then what you'd ask.

My 2cents.

Frank

[Matt Jutras]

Tell him $5000.00 then upsell him a monthly fee to maintain/improve the site on a monthly basis. Bring a one year contract with you for him to sign.

$1500.00 per month should do.

[OnlineMasterMind]

As much as he'll give you and still feel like he got a great deal.

[sf_Imtiaz]

Originally Posted by winebuddy

All I did was get his biz site to the top and added optin and followup!

If you are talking about ranking, If you mean you got his site to the top for a keyword and you don't know how much to charge for it then probably the best idea would be to get the quotes for the same keywords from the most expensive seo company out there. Just put together a webpage and tell the seo company that you want to get this site of yours to the top ranking for "your keyword".

for optin and followup, you can ask similar questions from an expensive web dev. and copywriter and get the quotes.

[sf_Imtiaz]

what OnlineMasterMind said is i guess really important for better customer retention

[ramone_johnny]

The same as you would charge anyone. Bumping your prices up because he "has money" is unethical.

Theres nothing worse in business, and to be honest it ****s me - no end.

[Croque]

Originally Posted by ramone_johnny

The same as you would charge anyone. Bumping your prices up because he "has money" is unethical.

Theres nothing worse in business, and to be honest it ****s me - no end.

Actually you can charge whatever you want! and it has nothing to do if he's money or not. It comes down to his ROI.

In this case try to estimate or find out how much he's making for every new deal/customer that he's getting because of your efforts. (and lifetime value as well)

If he is making $5000 a month because of the optin (list) and being at the top (organic traffic), then you can easily charge him $5000 for the set up and $2500 a month and still his ROI will be 100%

[Jason_V]

Wouldn't Ben Hart, who you so generously pointed to yesterday, tell you that you should probably charge a flat rate AND a recurring commission on money made from the site thanks to the work you did for him.

Thanks for that resource by the way

[FifthDimension5]

Reminds me of one thing when it comes to pricing your services - "dont undersell" but that doesnt mean you need to charge expensive - lets say tomorrow he comes across another guy offering the same services for a lot less - what will he think of you? Wont he think "that squabbler, he charged me more than what it is worth" or something like that. Try to align yourself with what is the standard going rate in the industry, what it costs you in terms of time money and effort and charge a fair price so that you can stay in business yourself. I am reminded of this pricing formula for web design
The design pricing formula | David Airey, graphic designer

Something similar should do even for SEO.

[mwoeppel1]

Ask him for his list and a testimonial. That oughta keep you busy for awhile!

[Kay King]

I have to agree with the last few posters. How much money your client has or what he spends on charity, etc. is not relevant. You should know what your work is worth - and that's what you charge.

He might be a repeat client or might be a source for referrals of other good clients in the future. Treat him honestly as any other client. It will pay you back in the future.

I'd state a price for what's been done so far - and offer options of pricing for monthly "maintenance" at various levels.

kay

[Paul Myers]

As much as he'll give you and still feel like he got a great deal.

Best answer of the week.

Combine it with another, and try something like:

"Ya know, I learned this working on my own businesses, not as part of a consulting program. That's probably why it works. [grin]

"For the same reason, I haven't actually thought about pricing for this stuff, and we didn't have an agreement on it. So, I'll leave that up to you. Based on what you expect it to earn you, what would you think is fair, and still leaves you getting a great deal on the investment?"

If the guy made his own money, that says all the right things. The key is the next step: Be prepared to accept any number at all with the same answer: "Done."

If he's the kind that just writes you a check without saying anything, don't even look at the number. Just fold it and put it in your pocket.

Remember, there was no deal, so anything is fair. You have to mean that.

Then suggest a couple of things that can add to the value of the work, and go on to other topics.

Here's the thing to keep in mind: This guy will be able to give you referrals. One of the secrets of referrals that most people never talk about is that people tend to send you folks who think like they do about money. If he paid you well, he's going to tell other people who will also pay you well. Making a value-delivered offer like this shows him that you mean what you say, and aren't out to gouge him just because he has cash to spend.

That makes a person very comfortable in telling others about you. It legitimately positions you as an honest and fair businessman, and you'll keep that positioning as long as you maintain it.


Paul

[akasher]

Ask for $5000 and say you need it for an investment plan.

Then say you will return most of it, and you will even include him in your business plan or give him some shares

[onlineleben]

Remember, there was no deal, so anything is fair. You have to mean that.

Here's the thing to keep in mind: This guy will be able to give you referrals. One of the secrets of referrals that most people never talk about is that people tend to send you folks who think like they do about money

Correct.
Maybe ask him to support a charity of your choice (and let him mention that you made him donate). An organisation you would have contributed to anyway. If he is as generous as you say, why not build on that.

[Paul Myers]

Maybe ask him to support a charity of your choice (and let him mention that you made him donate). An organisation you would have contributed to anyway. If he is as generous as you say, why not build on that.

I would be very careful about this. The value he associates with the charity might have no correlation to the value he'd place on your services. Doesn't solve the pricing issue, and might look insincere.

If you're not planning on doing this sort of thing for others, it could be fine, as long as you tell him that. If you're planning on doing this for pay, stick with letting him set the price.


Paul

[Michael Taylor]

Originally Posted by ramone_johnny

The same as you would charge anyone. Bumping your prices up because he "has money" is unethical.

This isn't true at all. Here's an example...

A small business with limited funds may only be able to pay $400 for a new logo design. However, if you land a sales meeting with a larger corporation and out of some sense of "fairness" offer to charge only $400 for their logo because it's the same kind of job you did for a lesser company, they'll probably not hire you for the work. The reason is in the expectation of value. A larger corporation expects a logo to cost several thousands of dollars, even though the quality of the design may be equal to that of a logo created for a small business. It's a matter of trust, and when it comes to folks with money, many of them believe you get what you pay for.

Having said that, I wouldn't go crazy with this customer, since the work is already done and it's a known factor that he has bags of cash. If you stick it to him, he may resent it, even if he does have the means to pay it without losing any sleep. Now, this isn't to say you can't charge a premium price for the services rendered...just don't go overboard.

The guiding factor here is the value he's gained. Frame it that way and then ask him what he thinks the work has been worth to him.

[Steven Carl Kelly]

Originally Posted by Michael Taylor

The guiding factor here is the value he's gained. Frame it that way and then ask him what he thinks the work has been worth to him.

This exact approach has been very successful for me in the past, and both parties to the deal end up happy.

[DrewG]

5% royalties on whatever his site makes =)

[winebuddy]

Thank you for all of the suggestions. I am reminded of an old saying...

"Be a pig but don't be a hog...Pigs are cute and get fat but Hogs get slaughtered"

I am leaning towards just asking him what he thinks it's been worth and will be worth to him and his company. Whatever he thinks it's worth is aok with me.

He'll suggest a number and I'll say DONE. Whatever it is.

Again - thanks for all of the ideas and suggestions - WARRIORS RULE

[iw433]

I should have this problem!!!!!!!!! Way to go, good for you.

[eaglechick]

This is a tough one. A friend of mine caters for a very, very wealthy
Arab sheik when he visits SA. You wanna know why they always
ask for her services? She treats them the same as all her other
clients and ask the same price - not jacked up because they've got
money. Their secretary told her in so many words.

The referals you'll get from this guy will be priceless. If you handle this
the right way you'll be in the big leagues. IMHO will this guy not think
you're unprofessional if you ask him what he must pay you? Surely as
a respected businessman you determine your fees. If someone ask me
how much I must pay them it puts me in an awkard position.

Your call.

Best of luck - let us know!

[mmurtha]

Originally Posted by winebuddy

Thank you for all of the suggestions. I am reminded of an old saying...

"Be a pig but don't be a hog...Pigs are cute and get fat but Hogs get slaughtered"

I am leaning towards just asking him what he thinks it's been worth and will be worth to him and his company. Whatever he thinks it's worth is aok with me.

He'll suggest a number and I'll say DONE. Whatever it is.

Again - thanks for all of the ideas and suggestions - WARRIORS RULE

Winebuddy,

That's good, but don't forget to set the groundwork for getting more work from him, and him spreading the word about you and your services.

[AndrewCavanagh]

It depends what you really want.

If you just want a few thousand dollars and you're not interested in doing that kind of work again then go through the dollar value of what you've done is worth to him in extra profits for his business over 3 months, 6 months, a year, 3 years, 5 years.

Then you can settle on a price you're both happy with.

Establishing value this way makes any money he pays you seem insignificant compared to the return he's getting.


Now if you DO want to do a lot more of this work then you can simply ask him if he'd call half a dozen of his best business friends who might appreciate the same service.

Get him to call them and recommend you.

A guy who is throwing down a million dollars to charities at the drop of the hat is going to have some amazing connections and when he recommends you your chance of being hired is about 95%.

And many of the people he'll refer you to will pay some SERIOUS money too.

One contact like this handled with tact can literally build you a business.


I'd also be asking if he'd mind putting what he thinks of the work you did in writing...or if you could just write down what he's said and use it as a testimonial.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[KenThompson]

Treat him fairly and honestly. Just because he has money is
not a good reason to overcharge. (Edit: There is never a good
reason to overcharge.) I can imagine he has run into enough
people trying to extract money from him in one way or another.

Find out what other people charge and base your fee on that. It
doesn't have to be exactly the same, but close at least.

If you treat him well and fairly, then he may very well refer you to
his friends. I'm sure he has them.

And congratulations.

[JohnMcCabe]

Given the information in the OP, Paul had the right answer in post #14. Here's why I think so...

1. There was no deal set in the beginning, so no set price. Unless you know what your friend is expecting to pay (and I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut he has a number in his mind somewhere), you risk either under- or over-charging.

2. As Paul said, if he just writes you a check, pocket it without looking. Since you'll say you'll accept whatever he thinks is fair, you have to back that up. Unless you have the poker face of a world class player, you will give away your reaction to the number on the check.

If you show disappointment, you'll make your friend feel bad because he didn't pay you enough. Not a good thing. If you show surprise or delight, he'll think he paid you too much. Also not a good thing.

3. When left to decide for themselves what to pay, most people (especially those with money they've had for awhile) will pay more than what you ask.

I saw this illustrated with a charity car wash run by some teenagers, including the daughter of a sharp marketing consultant. (At the time, his wife owned the lighting shop I sold out of.) The girls argued back and forth about how much to charge, some wanting to charge low and go for volume, some wanting to go high, etc. The father/consultant suggested the 'free will donation' model. The girls were shocked at the number of $10 and $20 bills in the cash box. There was even one $100 bill. And they stayed busy all day.

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by Michael Taylor

A small business with limited funds may only be able to pay $400 for a new logo design. However, if you land a sales meeting with a larger corporation and out of some sense of "fairness" offer to charge only $400 for their logo because it's the same kind of job you did for a lesser company, they'll probably not hire you for the work. The reason is in the expectation of value.

He has already performed the service, and results were achieved before any discussion of price occurred. There is no "expectation of value". Jacking the price up now simply because he has money would be unethical.

[Clint]

Hi winebuddy

Remember one of the most important things that you do at this point is to be honest and fair about your charging for your services. From this point on, you will be looking to build a relationship that you have with this client woo him go above and beyond.

Building relationships will bring you more wealth than you can ever charge.

This is just how I feel and what I've experienced through my business

Clint S.

[LegitBlogger]

Yes, Paul has summed up the best answer. I will like
to remind you of the power of NOT asking in certain
transactions, especially when a "rich" personality
like this is involved. Instead, give it to him to offer
you what he feels what you have done for him is
worth, considering that you just saved him 10 years
he has been spending money on what hasn't been
working.

[FG]

Many years ago I faced a problem with a wealthy client from the other angle.

I was the wedding photographer for the daughter of a big-shot local attorney.

Everything had already been agreed upon, date, time, package, and price.
I then take 50% of the payment due at this time with the other half being
due before the wedding day.

I got a call saying I could pick up the rest of the money owed for the
wedding at the law firm (where the father worked), just let them know
when I was coming down.

No problem.


At the Law Firm:


The father of the bride (the rich lawyer) was very interested in my work
schedule. His daughter was getting married on a Thursday night. He
concluded that most of my weddings were shot on Friday or Saturday
night. And he then reasoned, as if he was giving finial remarks to a jury
that Thursday was really one of my off-nights.

Therefore he should only be expected to pay half price for my top
package. After all, I would not be doing anything anyway.


I respectively asked him if he worked on Saturdays. He replied, “Of course
not, the weekends are mine.” I then asked him if I had any legal issues
could a see him on his off day and get a discount. He smiled and said, “I
see your point” and proceeded to write the check for the other half owed.


My conclusion:


I have no need to take advantage of someone because of their economic
status. And the reverse of that is just as true.

The first question I would have is how much did this guy spend in the last
ten years with no results. After all, I just saved him at least that much.


FG

[JoeCool]

WB,

I would tell him because you value his relationship as a fellow businessman, and the possibility of future business from him and his business contacts, that this one is on the house.

Yes, you may be giving up a few thousand dollars now, but don't doubt the power of the law of reciprocity.

In effect, you're playing a high stakes game of "moving the free line" which comes down to your new (future) client thinking, "if he can get me these kinds of results without even charging me, I can just imagine how good his paid services must be!"

Position yourself as the go-to expert in this area of his business.

Become his online marketing consultant, not a hit-or-miss service seller.


MHO,
~ JoeCool

P.S. You could possibly use the rest of the meeting to really dive into his website and the long term goals he has for it. Let him know you'll develop a detailed written plan of the additional (paid) systems and services you can add to his online marketing efforts to make his business even more profitable.

[rosetrees]

Originally Posted by eaglechick

A friend of mine caters for a very, very wealthy
Arab sheik when he visits SA. You wanna know why they always
ask for her services? She treats them the same as all her other
clients and ask the same price - not jacked up becuse they've got
money.

I have several very wealthy clients. I charge all my clients the same. My business exists because of recommendations and repeat business.

[he_august]

I would say that charge him with the price you offer for the public :>

i think that we shouldn't charge people higher even if we know his income even if its very very large amount
.
Thread him just like an ordinary client... I think he would prefer to be regards as ordinary client than "client with huge income"

And if he happy with it, who knows he will give you extra $$$ as bonus.. or even better, maybe he will become your loyal client for many other things :P

Think few steps ahead, just like in chess ... LOL

I think so :>

[olympus]

don't charge based on the wealth of your client, charge fairly and the same with other of your clients, if you are doing great I'm sure he will be the one to raise his payments or get bonuses...

real business doesn't take advantage of others.

[PaulLynch]

Why not test the water? If he likes you then you can always start high and only get knocked down

[eaglechick]

Gee man - when do we get the results of your meeting? My fingernails is bitten
down to NOTHING!
Please let us know - we feel for you!

[Intrepreneur]

Well done. What is the niche?

How long did it take you to get him ranked?

What was the competition like?

These questions might help you charge him and also I'd be interested to hear the answers too!

Mark

[Paul Myers]

I would tell him because you value his relationship as a fellow businessman, and the possibility of future business from him and his business contacts, that this one is on the house.

I would strongly recommend against this. It sets a bad precedent, and fails to solve the question of pricing. Additionally, not everyone can apply the reciprocity approach without looking manipulative. I have no idea of whether the OP is one who can or not, but it's something to consider.

The choice of phrasing you offer is especially unlikely to be effective, at least in a positive way. "... and his business contacts" sounds very much like a bribe. Some folks will accept that as a fair trade, while others will see it as an attempt to buy referrals. A LOT of people object to the latter.

The precedent problem is a serious one. Many of us have had the experience of someone trying to get free products or services based on the promise of future referrals. Remember what I said: People will tend to refer you to others who think the way they do about money. If they think you treat referrals as money, they'll often send you folks who'll do the same thing.

That's lovely, if you want to be the busiest person in the poorhouse.

As far as "moving the free line," I don't think that means what you think it means. That term is applied to information products that can be distributed to massive numbers of people at an extremely low incremental cost, either through virtual systems or by charging a fee that's enough to cover an outsourced delivery service.

The idea is to give them more and better information, in order to make more sales. Look at the prices the practitioners of that thinking charge for anything that involves personal time.

If you're going to adapt that model to services, you need to do it in a way that doesn't carry a significant time burden.


Paul

[winebuddy]

update posted in OP. Thanks for all the suggestions - now I need more.

[Bev Clement]

Do you think he might have been reading this thread and seen some of the suggestions given