All-In-One: Outsourcing Secrets

[admin]

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All-In-One Threads:

All-In-One threads is something I'm starting here where we as a group try to list damn near everything known about the subject of the thread. When you see an All-In-One thread feel free to speak up. It can be a 'secret', just a technique you happen to use or even something you haven't used, just heard about - whatever. Feel free to join in.

Please do not use the term All-In-One anywhere on this board. It will be saved for these threads specifically so at some point all one will have to do is search for the term "All-In-One" and all these threads will be easily found. At some point these will become some of the most sought after threads on the forum so it might be a good idea to participate if you have something to say people are going to really like.

If you have a great idea for an All-In-One thread please send me a PM and let me know about it.

To Find All All-In-One Threads Just Click Here: http://www.warriorforum.com/tags/allinone.html

Thank you..
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Please list anything you want to reveal about Outsourcing here in this thread. This is a hot subject so hopefully we can come up with some great sources and ideas in this thread...

Thanks!

Allen

[JasonParker]

This is going to rock Allen

Can't wait to read this thread as it grows and get some tips.

...Basically I have a few tips.

1) Best Jobs Philippines :: Philippine job search, job bank, employment and recruitment is a hot place to find people in the Philippines who will work for less.

2) If you find a guy who's REALLY good, pay him twice as much so he'll be happy.

3) Let the person who's working for you figure stuff out on his own and direct him here and there as you go. You don't want to train someone to contact you with every problem he's having. You want to correspond 2 times per day at the most, or else you might as well be doing the work yourself :P

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Before you outsource a project, you need to put together a clear and detailed project description. The better your description, the more accurate an estimate providers will be able to give you. A detailed and clear description also helps to avoid misunderstandings. Providers are not mind readers; they don't know what you want unless you spell it out for them. Keep in mind that aspects that may seem obvious to you may not seem that way to someone else.

For your first, and perhaps first few, projects, you might want to have a friend or family member review your project description and make sure it is clear to them. A second set of eyes can be a good benefit to making sure you don't overlook anything important!

Some Outsourcing Sites:

Elance
iFreelance
GetaFreelancer
Guru.com
Odesk
Rentacoder
Rent a Ghostwriter
ScriptLance
WarMarks
Your Man in India

[Lance K]

For bigger projects, make it known in your listing that you expect daily status updates. Not only will this keep you up to date on what's getting done, but it will also give your outsourcers a chance to get clarification/guidance on any issues that pop up.

Just swap instant messanger details and make sure you touch base every day. As long as you make it known that this is an expectation before accepting a bid, all should go well.

[Jag82]

Important - I will encourage you to sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with your freelancer so avoid any misunderstanding in future.

Jag

[Jason Johns]

Hi warriors,

As someone who is on both sides of the outsourcing fence one of the biggest tips I can offer is to make sure you know exactly what you want and when you want it by.

If you don't provide the freelancer with details they aren't psychic. Once you get to know them you can provide them with less information because they will have an understanding of your business. But the more info you can give them, the better.

I'd also say you need to value the good ones. Good outsources are hard to find and I am sure we all have stories about how we've been let down by them. Sometimes this is because of things outside their control, e.g. illness, other times it's for other reasons, but value a good outsourcer and they will work well for you.

If hiring from any of the above sites, always check their feedback and portfolio first.

If your budget is limited then you may need to look elsewhere. You can get some great work done by people on the forums at Digital point. I've hired a lot of people from their for things like SEO, writing and development and had some very good results for bargain prices.

All the best

Jason

[John Taylor]

A few tips..

1. Be sure you know exactly what you want and
don't take shortcuts writing your specification.

2. Ask to see examples of the freelancers previous
work and be sure to check it out.

3. Put a question in your request that requires a
specific answer. If the answer isn't in the bid, you
have probably got a canned response or a bot.

4. Do your due diligence before selecting a bid. Be
sure to look at the freelancers profile, especially
any feedback and ratings.

5. Give freelancers small projects to begin with to
"audition" them, their talents and their ability to
deliver to your spec and within time.

6. Wherever possible use a freelance site that has
an escrow system that keeps your cash until the
project is signed off to your satisfaction.

7. Maintain communication. If you're not hearing
from your freelancer regularly then ask them for
progress reports.

8. Keep records of ALL communication in case of
disputes. If you communicate off the freelance
site, be sure to record messenger chats in your
history file. (I cut and paste them into a project
folder) and if you use voice record the call and
retain it as an MP3.

9. Where good progress is made, the quality of
the work is good and the freelancer shows some
initiative, be sure to praise them.

10. Pay on time and where appropriate make an
extra "bonus" payment to show your appreciation.

11. Keep in touch with the good freelancers between
projects. You'll get a better response when you need
their help.

John

[SusanneUK]

Don't forget the "Warriors for Hire" forum when you are looking for outsourcers and then still follow the great advise given by everyone in this thread on being specific, keeping records, etc.

Sue

[Hamish Jones]

The main piece of advice I could offer would be to make sure that you are as detailed as possible in what you require from the project.

You may need to take in to account that for some people English is a second language- avoid jargon and country specific language when writing your assignment requirements.

[jayguy]

Clarity and specificity of project is key when outsourcing. Milestones also help the project stay on track and encourage timely completion.

[lakshaybehl]

Hiring freelancers can be like kissing frogs... You don't meet the ideal one everytime you hire a new one. But does that mean your quest for outsourcing stop? Well, you know the answer yourself. Just because one freelancer from Philipines didn't meet your expectations doesn't meanthe next one won't. There are some real gems to be uncovered. And those that go through the gruelsome task of kissing the frogs will one day certainly have some real nice gems secretly tucked away in their arsenal.

There are people all over this planet working for wages far below what you'd have paid to them. And they are happy, and they are talented and can achieve much more satisfaction with the work you assign to them as compared to what they are doing now. So while $3/hour may seem lame to you, its not- an Indian graduate with no experience but quite a lot of skills like- English speaking abilities, Content Research on the Internet, Transcription will be hired by a local company for a full time job at a measly $500/month, and will feel they are lucky. When they could have had the freedom to stay at home and work haldf the time for twice the money, and have a sort of security in terms of repeat clients.

The question is- What do you do once you find a right freelancer?

Answer- Always do more than what is expected of you. For a $100 project completed on time, pay out $125. While those extra $25 maybe next to nothing to you, for the other person it can be a lavish dinner at a 3 Star for their family.

Keep your grail quest on- For there is not one aspect of your business that can't be or shouldn't be outsourced or automated. Except of course the collection of money.

NOw, if you are just starting out, and if you are short on cash, don't worry. Find a plan that you can execute and start making some money. Then once you have some money coming in, start outsourcing.

Regarding what to outsource- well, whatever you don't WANT to do yourself. Note that I didn't say what you'e not good at, for if there is something you are not good at but still want to be able to do it someday, its better if you acquire that skill ASAP. Acquiring skiulls isn't all that difficult, we're not talking world records here. We're talking about small, simple skills like being able to close a deal. Being able to convert your prospects. Being able to motivate people to take action- to help someone realize the value of a new strategy that can help them. Maybe creating videos with your presentations in them. Maybe automating your business- whatever you want to do or be able to do, acquire those skills are work on it. All Other stuff needs to be outsourced. Life is too short to work on something that you do not want to do. There's so much you'd want to do and there's so much money you can make doing what you want to do. Outsource ALL ELSE.

-Lakshay

P.S. Might I suggest using a service like Escrow.com for payments, especially to new freelancers. Even if you are hiring someone off the Warrior Forum, do not make the mistale of sending money in advance. They can know you are willing to pya, but Escrow will hold the money while the work is being done satisfactorily.

[Mukul Verma]

Here are a few tips (will do my best not repeat what is already said)

1. Your outsource employee in a investment
spend time training them, if you want them
to produce better results. If you give them
sometime and expect them to fill in the gaps
it may take twice as long.

2. Look at hiring full time vs contract. If you
are dropping more then $500 to $1000 a month
on contracts, you may look at seeing if it works
better part time.

Next, if you do invest in training them well, you
want to keep them.

3. Know local holiday and customs. Example
in the Philipines they have 13th month where
at Christmas the employer gives 1 month
bonus. They will not ask since they dont
want to lose there job, but keep with the customers

4. This is a test I did. I hired a newbie for a
posting job vs a experience link builder. I paid
$120 USD compared to $200 USD for the month.
Newbie out performed the expereince, since they
dont have it stuck that there way (or the last job)
is the only way to do it. This is for more experience
Internet marketers know how to train

5. Invest the time to interview OR (like I do) have
one of your outsource employee pick resumes and
you interview.

6. Expect everything not to be perfect. Hiring
someone hear also often has issues. Look at the
cost/benefit ratio when hiring. It is still a great
deal.

7. (personal rule) I hire in call center for phone,
live message or customer support my business
cannot run without for a day. I will hire direct
for marketing and other functions that would
not impact my business if the employee leaves
(I did have a marketing guy quit instantly for
a better paying job half way through a trip).
It is hard to quit and someone else can back
it up, if you are away or busy.

[JasonParker]

I just started working with this Warrior for outsourcing. So far it's one of the best outsourcing experiences I've ever had. We're getting a TON done just in a couple days:

Full Time Virtual Assistant starting at $75 a week

[TiffanyDow]

My own outsourcing tips, since I've played both sides of the field are:

1.) Copyscape everything. They'll say they understand what plagiarism is, but either they don't, or they don't care.

2.) Find a whole bunch of freelancers, give them all a small job, and pick the ones who rise to the top to work with on larger projects.

3.) If you use Elance, etc., use the escrow feature.

4.) Tell them up front what you expect with formatting your text. When I was selling $20 per page text, I kept hearing about others who sold $10 per page text. Problem is, their text was size 14 point font and double spaced. Mine was 12 point font, single spaced, so the buyer actually paid the same amount because with the other person, they only got about 200-250 words. With me, they got 400-500 words.

5.) Be the squeaky wheel. I'm a great writer, but I will admit I used to suck at deadlines. The squeaky wheel got the grease with me, which is horrible because I should have been taking care of my patient clients. I just needed the annoying ones off my back, so BUG your freelancer even before they're late for a status

tiff

[Marhelper]

Great idea Allen. I have found the best outsourcing site to be "Get a Free Lancer." When you use the service you should open the bidding up for 7 days or more and ALWAYS get references and make sure the work is done BEFORE paying. I have found some of my best workers through GAF.

[Steve Robertson]

Hello Warriors,

Speaking as someone to whom Warriors outsource work, the sites such as Elance don't work for me.

These sites give almost all the advantages to the service buyer and almost none to the freelancer. By setting up a system where there is open competition for projects, these sites force freelancers to endure cutthroat competition and accept ridiculously low fees so they can land their first few jobs and establish a reputation on the site. The only relief from this would be for those who endure this injustice long enough to establish an excellent reputation that allows them to win bids even when theirs is not the lowest.

And the sites have the temerity to charge the freelancers for this disservice!

Many freelancers have spent countless hours developing their skills. And a skilled technician should be able to charge a fair amount for their time.

I think Warriors would be better served to do business directly with other Warriors. The "Warriors for Hire" section is a good start, but it omits some types of freelancers. I just looked through there and didn't find a single listing that started with the words "Video Producer." There were plenty starting with the word "Content," and I suppose video could be considered content, but it doesn't make much sense for someone to have to hunt through all the "Content" listings to find a video maker.

Steve Robertson

[Johnny Slater]

When you outsource make sure that the person you hire has a working understanding of what you want done. I don't mean just that they can write well, or are a good programmer, or a good graphic designer, but that they know exactly what you want done and know enough to be able to do the required work without messing up anything you have existing.

I have seen more than once where someone hired a programmer to integrate two different web scripts and it ended badly. This is very important if you are dealing with software, make sure that the person you hire has a good understanding of your existing software in order to integrate something else into it without totally messing up what you already have up and running.

If you have an article directory and want to add something to it, hire someone who understands what an article directory is. If you have a membership site and want a blog or forum directly integrated make sure you hire someone who understands membership scripts as well as forums and blogs. It's not enough that they know how to write code. Just because someone is a programmer doesn't mean they understand how all programs work.

The same goes for other stuff as well. Just because someone makes killer graphics doesn't automatically mean they will undersand your target market or will know how best to handle your needs.

You need be very clear in getting the outsourcer to understand your needs, but making sure that they also understand anything you already have existing that they must work with is a very important issue as well.

[Mohsin Rasool]

Hi Guys,

As I run my own small outsourcing firm and have direct contact with many
freelancers and outsourcing firms in this industry...

I see three mistakes which create huge trouble for the client , yeah the customer!

1. #1 Mistake: 500pages html pages post to Blog $35 only
Yes, it is too good to be true... When you are getting someone to do a BIG job for
a very little Price... you are asking for a big trouble, waste of time and waste of energy..

They will take your project, try to do it, will get fed up with it...2 days time stretch to
2 weeks and then 2 months without project completion!!!

So it is not always better to go for the lowest (unimaginable, unreasonable) bid/price...
Sometime poeple just need money and they are wiling to do anything for $10...but
just after they have got your project, they gonna rethink, and they gonna be tired...

Oh also sometime (and most of the time) they are new to the market, they just have
no idea what job they are taking, so they take the job for e.g.$15, start the work and
then they realize oh ..that is so much work...and now they are not going to tell you the
truth but waste your time and energy, and you are going to get very frustrated really!!!

So lowest price is not always the best solution to your outsourcing needs!!!

2. #2 Mistake Regarding Design :
When you want something to be Designed, do not simply explain in words via email,
or worse talk over skype(he/she is not going to understand)... as both you and your
designer cannot speak on the same communication level, he/she does not know your
terms and vice versa...

I have seen the best solution to this ... Open Word doc... and start drawing the
layout boxes with simple descriptions... Logo Here, Sign Up button here... and so on..
and send that to your designer..or simply draw by hand on a paper (just the draft idea)
and scan it and email your designer... this is going to save a week of back and forth emails of understanding your idea....

3. #3 Mistake Regarding Projects Descriptions and Specifications :

As already mentioned and advised by many Warriors above , that you must be
specific and detailed in your description...no short-cut and no exception...
If you really want the work completed as per your expectations and within
the time frame...give the all details to the outsourcing guy at the start of the
project so he/she tells you correct idea of the date of completion...

You can write, you can draw, you can record video, you can give reference links,
and the examples sites or blogs you like...so turn around time of your project becomes
fast and short...


BONUS TIP: Oh i was about to skip this very important advice i can give to
my fellow Warrior Friends regarding the Coding/Software stuff....{Dark secret of
the industry in the words of a senior employee}

On another day, i was talking to this senior coder in a big outsourcing firm here...
as i have checked his recent script, and i saw many security checks were simply
ignored...I mentioned that...and his answer was very surprising...he said...
we deliver what client asks for!...if he do not ask we do not do...in fact he was saying..
if client is clueless about the aspects of security of the script/site they are coding,
they are not going to take those measures...they will only do if client is smart, have
knowledge about that, and ask for that.... and it is not what he wanted to do..he said
this is company practice to get things done, and just do what is asked...

Solution, to this issue i recommend to my fellow warriors is that if you have no idea about
programming/coding..and you are going to get something built/coded...please have some
friend or buddy onboard...who have knowledge about that..and let him help you fine-tune
your project descriptions and specs...and also let him inspect the delivered work to you,
before you approve the same...just to be on the safe side...

best wishes,
Mohsin
PS. Allen thank you very much such great threads...i really love to see all great
stuff at one place...thank you!

[AmyBrown]

Use project management solutions to keep both you and your outsourcers on track. It's easier to have everything in one place rather than having bits and pieces in email, IM and Skype.

Basecamp: Project management, collaboration, and task software: Basecamp
Huddle: Project Management Software, Online Collaboration and Document Sharing ~ Huddle
dotProject: dotproject - Open Source Software :: Open Source Project and Task Management Software (open-source)

I prefer Huddle and in my experience it's been easier for people to learn to use.

[Maria Gudelis]

Originally Posted by AmyBrown

Use project management solutions to keep both you and your outsourcers on track. It's easier to have everything in one place rather than having bits and pieces in email, IM and Skype.

Basecamp: Project management, collaboration, and task software: Basecamp
Huddle: Project Management Software, Online Collaboration and Document Sharing ~ Huddle
dotProject: dotproject - Open Source Software :: Open Source Project and Task Management Software (open-source)

I prefer Huddle and in my experience it's been easier for people to learn to use.

Ditto on that Amy...only difference is that I prefer basecamphq

At the bare minimum if you can't pay up for those resources...then use google docs!

The other STRONG tactic to use that makes your life VERY EASY is to provide video and text tutorials of what you want them to do...that way:

1. If you have to change talent up - easy to do as the training is just - here go to this link - watch the videos and read the word doc. on 'your checklist'

2. If you grow your business, easy to hire more as well as you can also point to the training you have provided

If going after 'software development' - I only deal with a very reputable resource or company so that the IP is protected (especially if creating a product for someone else and private labeling it to them)

**** Not sure if this was mentioned - just like with employees...FIRE FAST! If someone isn't working out - you have to say next - it is your business, your bottom line you must be very aggressive here...this is one area where 'being nice' can kill your business, your own food on the table gets hit if you know what I mean!

great thread!

[seasoned]

I was actually writing a book that includes a few sections on this. I am talking about mainly programs/websites here....

Some cultures don't even honor NDAs, and NDAs should cover patentable info, and/or company/customer/vendor specific information. So don't expect NDAs to be THE solution. If you are REALLY worried, you can allocate key parts to different people.

BE PRECISE in how data relates, write out text, and mockup screens. Realize that some things MAY vary between what you do, and what they must do. Dropdown lists, for example, may look different, etc... BTW it must have some TEXT that you can cut and paste. If you provide only screen shots, they must retype and that wastes time and leaves a potential for errors.

GIVE THEM A TESTBED, if needed!

If you can, state what technologies and environment it should use! Is it Java? PHP? Will it use active Directory? Is it a website? Client? Standalone program? etc...

GET SOURCE! Examine it CAREFULLY! Check to see if there are any licensing requirements.

AND, despite what people say, complex programs may not be done in a day. If they speak of CRUD, MVC, libraries, etc... They may be using existing software or licensed software. In such a case you won't have COMPLETE rights, which is fine as long as you understand it, but you may not have ANY rights. Some require you to provide source to customers, some require per copy fees, etc....

Try to compile the product using ONLY source on a VIRGIN computer(one they didn't touch that never had the application on it). THIS will catch any patches they made, etc...

And if you can't do something like compile, or install, it means you can't support it if you sell it, and may not be able to ever move to another system. So you really SHOULD learn!

One more thing. NEVER assume they understand you, even if they say they do. Try to give examples and make it VERY clear.

Steve

[George Wright]

This comes from Tammy. I'm posting her idea, which she uses for other projects.

Get permission to post a "help wanted" index card or flyer on the student resource board at local private colleges. These are "for profit" colleges that have a lot of students who are looking for extra income.

Of course you could do this with JR. Colleges and State Colleges but our experience is with for profit colleges.

You will find students skilled in any IM related field you can think of. 99% of them don't know it

They are taking graphic arts, writing, website development, etc so they can work jobs that need those skills.

Tammy had a project she needed completed. She was contacted by a teacher and the teacher asked her if she could make it an assignment for the class. The students are working for a GRADE.

George Wright

[arepb]

As referenced in the 4 Hour Work Week, request (demand) someone with English speaking abilities. Sometimes this means putting in your RFP that the VA will have to conduct business over the phone (which may or may not be the case). Doing so ensures you have someone with better English skills than someone who can simply write a note or email message.

[MarkWrites]

Don't be afraid to give a high quality writer or VA a raise now and then. In the past when I have hired out some consistent work and it was being done exceptionally well, I've voluntarily bumped up the pay out so that they are making at least a little bit more than the vast majority of workers doing the same thing. This helps keep them happy, makes them feel appreciated, and hopefully stops them from looking too hard for better paying jobs. The small expense this creates for me is nothing compared to paying over and over for subpar results while looking for the right person.

[Brent Turner]

From an outsourcee's point of view.

If you're an outsourcer, here's one tip which is worth pure gold:

Treat your outsourcees with respect, praise their good work, correct them on their mistakes in a friendly way and just be friendly and nice to them in general.

They are FAR more likely to go to greater lengths to please you if you treat them well than if you don't.

We refused to work with someone recently because they were rude and disrespectful. We have no time for people like that.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Brent Turner

From an outsourcee's point of view.

If you're an outsourcer, here's one tip which is worth pure gold:

Treat your outsourcees with respect, praise their good work, correct them on their mistakes in a friendly way and just be friendly and nice to them in general.

They are FAR more likely to go to greater lengths to please you if you treat them well than if you don't.

We refused to work with someone recently because they were rude and disrespectful. We have no time for people like that.

Realize that it IS a two way street though. With a GOOD resource, you aren't doing THEM a favor, you are helping one another.

[Web Junkie]

Originally Posted by JasonParker

1) Best Jobs Philippines :: Philippine job search, job bank, employment and recruitment is a hot place to find people in the Philippines who will work for less.

This website is really cool man...thanks for the link! I've used rentacoder for individual tasks, but I see that it is quite inexpensive to hire a full time employee. I just have a quick question-

Would you suggest paying the outsourced employee via paypal or is there another method that you guys are using?

Thanks so much,

Rich

[Steve Diamond]

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

Before you outsource a project, you need to put together a clear and detailed project description. Providers are not mind readers; they don't know what you want unless you spell it out for them. Keep in mind that aspects that may seem obvious to you may not seem that way to someone else.

...you might want to have a friend or family member review your project description and make sure it is clear to them. A second set of eyes can be a good benefit to making sure you don't overlook anything important!

Originally Posted by Mohsin Rasool

{Dark secret of the industry in the words of a senior employee}

On another day, i was talking to this senior coder in a big outsourcing firm here...as i have checked his recent script, and i saw many security checks were simply ignored...I mentioned that...and his answer was very surprising...he said... we deliver what client asks for!...if he do not ask we do not do...in fact he was saying..
if client is clueless about the aspects of security of the script/site they are coding, they are not going to take those measures...they will only do if client is smart, have knowledge about that, and ask for that.... and it is not what he wanted to do..he said this is company practice to get things done, and just do what is asked...

Solution, to this issue i recommend to my fellow warriors is that if you have no idea about programming/coding..and you are going to get something built/coded...please have some friend or buddy onboard...who have knowledge about that..and let him help you fine-tune your project descriptions and specs...and also let him inspect the delivered work to you, before you approve the same...just to be on the safe side...

I'd like to triple-underline these points in bright orange and to add another dimension. A friend, family member, or buddy is not going to be able to help much, especially if they know little or nothing about computer security issues, about data design, about coding best practices, etc.

For any reasonably complex project, consider hiring a professional requirements analyst or business analyst to be your second pair of eyes. The analyst will make sure that your specification is coherent and sensible, that it will actually accomplish the goals you have in mind. The analyst will make sure that appropriate security measures are built into the specifications. Finally, the analyst will review the finished product and make sure that it actually conforms to the specifications and incorporates the requested measures. The analyst's final report on those points will be your ammunition in case you have to deal with a developer whose work is faulty or incomplete.

Steve

[Bev Clement]

As Vince Runza said, "We're ghostwriters, not mind readers"

When you hire a person be it a writer, coder, VA, we can't read your minds. If you know what you want then let us in on the secret, if not then you might not get what you thought you wanted.

Be as specific as possible.

[Doctor Article]

As a freelance writer myself, I would, if I'm honest, tend to recommend using one of the dedicated content writing sites for articles, blog posts, and etc. The quality is far more consistent than what you face with other options such as GAF. Also, you have the benefit of predetermined deadlines and customer support. Most importantly, you avoid having to jump through all the hoops associated with freelance sites, just as you don't have to wait for bids to come in. I would mention a few sites but not sure if I'm permitted to do so. Having said that, I suppose a lot depends on what sort of quality you're after, as a lot of writers, myself included, have moved away from the freelance sites.

[DyLan Lee]

The reality is that if you are doing article marketing it can be a lot of work if you are aggressively doing it. That is why I want to show you exactly how to outsource your article marketing so you can maximize your results and put this traffic generation strategy on total autopilot.

Secret #1:

Make sure you do a lot of article marketing first before you start outsourcing it. The reason is this - if you don't know how to do it and don't know your metrics then you will be in big trouble when you get someone to do it for you as you won't have a benchmark for success.

If you just outsource it and forget about it - you're not going to know what quality level to expect and what kind of results you should expect from your article marketing.

Secret #2:

Make sure you don't cheap out on getting people to write your articles. This is the biggest mistake that people make when they do article marketing. You're not looking to get as many articles as possible onto the Internet.

You're looking to get as many qualified visitors as possible to your site from your articles. There is a big difference! The first way you can just hire anyone to write bad articles because you don't care.

The second way is the right way - pay big money for the best articles and you will get way more visitors to your site. Would you not rather have more traffic & better traffic even though you had to spend a bit more?

In the end your profit will be higher and you will help more people.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by documaker

You don't have to hire offshore to avoid those kinds of costs. You need only hire independent contractors (freelancers). However just to append to your list regarding employees:

1. Are harder to fire.

Actually freelancers are harder to fire because they're hired under a contract. Employees usually have to sign some bizarre "pre-nup" agreement that disallows the employee from bringing a termination to court. In that regard, employees are **easier** to fire.

Sorry, I meant under the LAW! Employees sue ALL THE TIME, and people even sue on their behalf. HEY, I have been a consultant. Although I haven't been fired, I have seen plent that were. One time I was on a project and saw another project cancelled and DOZENS there were let go with NO notice!

Originally Posted by documaker

2. Must have benefits.

Freelancers, offshore **and** onshore are free from this requirement.

Yeah, but EMPLOYEES aren't. Don't beliieve me? Just ask MICROSOFT! They tried to use a loophole, and they LOST!

Originally Posted by documaker

3. Have payroll costs.
See #2


4. Require you to have an EIN.

See #2

5. Can subject YOU to liability.

See #2

AGAIN, I'm talking about employees.

[quote=documaker;1171255]6. Require YOU to have insurance.

Some outsourcing companies require freelancers to have insurance as well. Working with a no-insurance freelancer is a risk some business are too big to take.[quote]

NOBODY requires you to have insurance for you. I meant you have to have insurance to cover THEM!

Originally Posted by documaker

7. Often require YOU to provide resources.
This actually depends on what's stipulated in an outsourcing contract. Freelancers quite often come with their own resources and are thus required to use them.

Again, employees don't have outsourcing contracts!

Originally Posted by documaker

In the end, freelancers, independent contractors, outsourcing service providers, whatever you wanna call them are **always** cheaper than employers because they don't come with all the red tape.

My point is that they are less expensive than they appear at first. By some estimates, they both cost roughly the same. That is because a consultant costs roughly twice as much, and the support for an employee generally costs as much as their salary.

Steve

[dbarnum]

Get lots of outsourcing tips at my Warrior blog:

WarriorForum - Internet Marketing Forums - Moving Ahead with Warriors Blog

Plus the latest heads up for the many Warrior writers out there with outsourcing companies:


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Get a short 2-page PDF document from which you'll learn about 14 common errors that show up in many ghostwritten documents. Also included are three short steps to success for your ghostwriting endeavors. Download by clicking: Ghostwriting Errors


Podcast

Listen in to a short discussion about ghostwriting and overcoming the common errors that ghostwriters make in the podcast at the link below. Download the short PDF above that accompanies this, a helpful guide to follow while the tips are shared on the podcast:


Moving Ahead Blog: Writing Tips with Free Download and Audio (Podcast) - Ghostwriting Do's and Don'ts

Thanks,

Warrior (& team) For Hire!

[Peter Temp]

It is very cool to hear about outsourcing here. I am using getafreealncer.com and some guys from Sri Lanka to work on my projects.

I had tried with eufreelancer.com too but did not get impressions as getafreealncer.com where I have got good hard working providers. However, there are spammers everywhere, we have to identify them correctly with above mentioned secrets.

[JasonParker]

Originally Posted by Web Junkie

This website is really cool man...thanks for the link! I've used rentacoder for individual tasks, but I see that it is quite inexpensive to hire a full time employee. I just have a quick question-

Would you suggest paying the outsourced employee via paypal or is there another method that you guys are using?

Thanks so much,

Rich

I personally make sure the person can accept PayPal first because that's how I keep my records when it comes tax time. Plus you can just set up a subscription link and it'll pay them every month or weekly.

[Andyhenry]

The thing I've found has made the most difference in getting great outsourcing results is something I've never seen anyone else talk about.

It's called modeling.

If I need a new piece of software created I no longer bother with pages and pages of specifications - I just open up MS Powerpoint and I build a model of what I want.

By model, I mean something that looks just like what I want, and behaves like I want.

So if I want a login screen and then particular things on the next page - I create a slide of the the login screen then when I click my mouse some login details appear, then next click, then next screen appears (as if I've just logged in).

So, in this way I model the look and behaviour of what I want (It usually takes a few hours to do).

Then I give this to the programmer and say ' make it look like that and do what that does' but with a real database and backend.

Then the only things to discuss are limits and parameters for the values.

As long as they create a tool that looks like I showed and behaves like I showed - it's a perfect job with ZERO bugs and zero ammendments.

I've done this about 30 times over the last 4 years and spent about $100k on software development and it's saved me at least the same again because I always get the right thing first time.

Andy

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

The thing I've found has made the most difference in getting great outsourcing results is something I've never seen anyone else talk about.

It's called modeling.

If I need a new piece of software created I no longer bother with pages and pages of specifications - I just open up MS Powerpoint and I build a model of what I want.

By model, I mean something that looks just like what I want, and behaves like I want.

So if I want a login screen and then particular things on the next page - I create a slide of the the login screen then when I click my mouse some login details appear, then next click, then next screen appears (as if I've just logged in).

So, in this way I model the look and behaviour of what I want (It usually takes a few hours to do).

Then I give this to the programmer and say ' make it look like that and do what that does' but with a real database and backend.

Then the only things to discuss are limits and parameters for the values.

As long as they create a tool that looks like I showed and behaves like I showed - it's a perfect job with ZERO bugs and zero ammendments.

I've done this about 30 times over the last 4 years and spent about $100k on software development and it's saved me at least the same again because I always get the right thing first time.

Andy

Well, I DID say:

BE PRECISE in how data relates, write out text, and mockup screens. Realize that some things MAY vary between what you do, and what they must do. Dropdown lists, for example, may look different, etc... BTW it must have some TEXT that you can cut and paste. If you provide only screen shots, they must retype and that wastes time and leaves a potential for errors.

Still, the more info you can cover, and the more precise, the better your experience will be.
You would be SHOCKED at how much even working, and seemingly identical, routines can vary.

Steve

[Joseph Ratliff]

When outsourcing any part of your business or individual tasks...no matter how low on the priority list...

Pick up the phone and call the person or agency you're using and talk to someone...interview them to get a "gut feel" of how they will perform. Our intuition is a powerful thing, it's best to use it when involving others in your business.

If it's not possible to phone the other party(ies)... at least make some sort of contact and perform initial screening to get the best "gut feel" you can. It doesn't work as well as talking to them personally, as tone and inflection are lost, but it's better than nothing at all.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by seasoned

Well, I DID say:

BE PRECISE in how data relates, write out text, and mockup screens. Realize that some things MAY vary between what you do, and what they must do. Dropdown lists, for example, may look different, etc... BTW it must have some TEXT that you can cut and paste. If you provide only screen shots, they must retype and that wastes time and leaves a potential for errors.

Still, the more info you can cover, and the more precise, the better your experience will be.
You would be SHOCKED at how much even working, and seemingly identical, routines can vary.

Steve

These are not screenshots - they're interactive powerpoint slides. There's a difference - I've sold a lot of software from demonstrating the same thing and people forget it's a model and think it's the real software and want it right there and then.

I agree that the coding behind can vary wildly - which is why I always give new programmers test projects and look after the ones that work well.

Andy

[Jag82]

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

1.) Copyscape everything. They'll say they understand what plagiarism is, but either they don't, or they don't care.

Tiffany, I owe you a favor on this one. Had I not read this tip,
I may not even know I've been ripped off.

I just got some articles that I've outsourced back.

When I read through the articles, it gives me the
feeling that the content has been swiped off different
places and assembled together.

Totally incoherent. So remembering your copyscape
tip, off I went to do a check!

And true enough, much of the content is plagiarized!
Word for word somemore!

I think it is fair to say I won't be working with that
guy I've outsourced to anymore.

Thanks again Tiffany.

Jag

[JasonParker]

John Jonas just launched an outsourcing site yesterday where you can hire Filipinos at Find a real, online job! | Home I haven't looked at thoroughly, but it seems similar to Best Jobs Philippines :: Philippine job search, job bank, employment and recruitment

[MisterMunch]

Keeping an Outsourcer folder is a great tip.

Have a folder and put a page for every article writer you hire. Give him stars, and a short review for every job he does. Also keep a note of every scam artist or bad writer you step upon.

For outsourcing backlinks you can keep the same folder for each and every service you use. Also have a list of each project and track the keywords. Write the date the job is completed for that keyword, and track back a month later to see how it went. If great, give the service a star in their reviews.

By doing this over time you will have a great overview of who is good, who is bad, what services is great and what services do not work.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by documaker

HEY, what HAPPENED to THE original LIST?

Anyway, I think you're forgetting the costs of employee maintenance, benefits, 401K, and all the other goo that makes red tape stick.

I would LOVE to know WHO got rid of that list, and WHY!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway, NO! I didn't forget ANY of that! I mentioned it ALL in a post someone decided to delete for NO reason! I didn't advertise, insult, speak politics, or ANYTHING esle spamming or insulting, etc...

Steve

[dandimit]

Daniel Pereira and I just did a 3 CD audio training set about outsourcing...we love it.

A cool easy way to learn a little about it is the book:
The 4 Hour Work Week By Timothy Ferris.

[Andyhenry]

The same thing actually goes for code as well.

I spend a few grand on some software development once and found out it had pieces of someone elses software pasted in to it - so I couldn't legally use/sell it without paying a license to someone else.

The programmer swore that it was all original - but I had a friend check it out and even after I'd called them on the copied code and they said they'd rewritten the affected area - I still found a bunch of ***** at a part where they'd cut out the copyright message from someone elses code.

If you get software created - make sure you have someone who can take a look and spot any obvious copying.

Sometimes just doing a search for comment characters will find the copied code sections.

Andy

Originally Posted by Jag82

Tiffany, I owe you a favor on this one. Had I not read this tip,
I may not even know I've been ripped off.

I just got some articles that I've outsourced back.

When I read through the articles, it gives me the
feeling that the content has been swiped off different
places and assembled together.

Totally incoherent. So remembering your copyscape
tip, off I went to do a check!

And true enough, much of the content is plagiarized!
Word for word somemore!

I think it is fair to say I won't be working with that
guy I've outsourced to anymore.

Thanks again Tiffany.

Jag

[James Pateman]

I would agree with JasonParker's comment about sourcing from the Phillipines. Their english is excellent.

regards,
James Pateman

[jeffmull]

A few points about outsourcing software.

1) Specify that the code must be fully commented/documented. That means that each step of the code has comments within it that explain what is happening.

You must assume that whoever wrote the original code, if it is a freelancer, will not be available to support or modify it later down the road. If code is commented, than another programmer can more easily understand what is going on, so it will take them less time and money to do the work.

If code is properly commented, you should be able to look at the source code and get some inkling of what is happening - even if you don't know anything about programming.

2) If I'm doing a long-term project that is business-critical, I prefer to use a local programmer that I can get on the phone with - in my time zone - if there are issues. If it's a simpler script, I really don't care where the programmer is.

Jeff Mulligan

[iw433]

Thanks you, thank you. An excellent thread, well worth reading.

[ctutt]

Lance, thanks for this tip. I'm sure many of us would not have even thought of it.

[JAIDEEP2959]

You can outsource to people who are native English speakers residing in Asian countries like India and Pakistan. As cost of living there is low, you can get your project done at much less price.

If you are outsourcing on Elace.com or Getafreelancer.com, make sure you check the reviews of the members before assigning the project.

It is better to talk over a phone with the person before assigning him/her work.

Good Luck.