Forget about marketing and stuff! Let us all be developers!

24 replies
I attended a conference for freelancers. I love these events. You can share your experiences and meet interesting people. It is just like a reunion of old school buddies. I enjoy until the inevitable comparison game begins. Who is more successful. Who makes more money. When you wait for the next presentation to begin you have plenty of time to talk.

This time I just could not help myself overhearing a conversation among some pretty much passionate freelancers. It turns out that one developer was trying to convince us that the future and more importantly the source of safe and regular income is in development. One of the guys pointed out that we could not be all programmers. Someone has to do the writing, marketing, presentation, sales, design, and other types of work. If we all develop, then who is going to be left to do all these necessary jobs? Right?

Yet, this developer superstar was restless and persistent. Anyone can learn how to build apps and websites. I agree. We can all learn how to write codes, but are we going to be happy? I have dozens of friends who work as freelance developers. What is the catch? You still work from 9 to 5. Maybe in a different time zone, but it is all the same. That is not my thing.

At one point I decided that enough is enough, so I said what I think about it. Unless you develop some life changing mega popular app, you are going to write some boring codes and who knows what for a very long time. At the same time, in order for your app to be successful, you need to have a little bit of everything. You have to be an entrepreneur, a marketer, copywriter, leader, a true Superman. So, we are back where we started our discussion. You need a team. They cannot be all developers, can they?

It turns out that I hit the right or the wrong nerve. It depends obviously. This developer asked me a question about my car. I have nothing to hide or be ashamed of. I drive a used 12-year-old car. He said that compared to my car he drives a space ship. I did not know that this was a Fast and Furious competition. Luckily for us we had to go back inside because the next presentation was about to begin.

On my way back home, I thought about my work and my car. Nowadays, even the kids learn how to develop basic programs. Yet, that is simply not my thing. I am happy with what I do. I am not happy with my car and so many other things in my life. Yet, I work hard and hope for things to change and improve at some point in my life. The last thing I would recommend to anyone is that we should all become writers and copywriters. I respect all people and all professions. We are all pieces of one gigantic puzzle. Or, maybe it is about time for me to learn some things about development. I really do not know. How about you?
#developers #development #entrepreeneurs #entrepreneurship #forget #let’s #marketing #stuff #success and failure
  • Profile picture of the author Gary Pettit
    Yes....software apps are very much in demand and much of the time extremely profitable. It's always a good idea to sell your own products/software but even selling other peoples software as an affiliate can be very profitable

    Might want to consider that if you want an easier alternative to the software/app business

    Hope this helps
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      Thx Gary. Appreciated. Still believe that behind every great product/service, including apps, have to be a great team not just a great idea.

      Back in my sales days, I remember a colleague from South Africa, who made it to be a partner. How? His famously infamous line. You can create whatever you imagine, but without me to sell, what do you have - nothing.

      Signed an NDA. Can't say much. Writing blogs for a company, which software is behind one of the biggest toy factories. So, we are all pieces of this gigantic business puzzle, and we should be proud. Most importantly, respectful toward each other.

      Cheers!
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by neshaword View Post

    Unless you develop some life changing mega popular app, you are going to write some boring codes and who knows what for a very long time.


    Wrong.

    I build Windows apps and have never built anything that didn't keep me interested. If your bored writing code then you're obviously doing projects for random people/niches.

    Build your own apps for a niche you enjoy and nothing is boring. Time consuming, yes, but not boring.

    Also, you don't have to have a mega popular app to make decent money, If that's your mindset with anything in sales you've already failed.
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      So, this is such a promising field/market that all kinds of apps/inventions/improvements can rain money. Good to know. Had some suspicions, but now it is confirmed.

      One of my clients advised to keep an eye on Golang. Like that's the next big thing. Maybe I should give it a try and later write an ebook about it, lol.

      Thx.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by neshaword View Post

        One of my clients advised to keep an eye on Golang. Like that's the next big thing. Maybe I should give it a try and later write an ebook about it, lol.

        Thx.
        Unfortunately whenever a programming related subject comes up its moved to the programming section when marketers could benefit in the general marketing area.

        If you are new to programming I would suggest python and javascript. Javascript because if you want to build anything online you will need it. Python because many universities and trainers admit its one of the easier first languages to learn.
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        • Profile picture of the author neshaword
          I hear you. I am occupied writing my first ebook. The last time I logged a few months ago, can't recall a special programming section was here. My experience I shared here is rather a general one. The other thing would be for me to ask, hey recommend me a language to learn.

          Just hope warriors will accept that those were quite spontaneous conclusions. Can miss a category, but will do my best not to miss an opportunity to learn something new, lol.

          P.S.
          JavaScript appears quite often on my radar. For what is worth, the traumatic experiences with Windows failures made me learn how to install and use Linux. I am a proud and an independent Ubuntu users. I fix my problems myself now. So, maybe I should make the next step.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by neshaword View Post

            JavaScript appears quite often on my radar. For what is worth, the traumatic experiences with Windows failures made me learn how to install and use Linux. I am a proud and an independent Ubuntu users. I fix my problems myself now. So, maybe I should make the next step.
            If thats the case you should. As an Ubunu user you are no doubt already familiar with the command line which almost all web frameworks use.
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    • Profile picture of the author anayb
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Wrong.

      I build Windows apps and have never built anything that didn't keep me interested. If your bored writing code then you're obviously doing projects for random people/niches.

      Build your own apps for a niche you enjoy and nothing is boring. Time consuming, yes, but not boring.

      Also, you don't have to have a mega popular app to make decent money, If that's your mindset with anything in sales you've already failed.
      Very true. Doing codes can't be boring, it could be challenging and time consuming but not boring at least from a developer's point of view, whatever codes he does.
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  • Profile picture of the author techwizard
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by neshaword View Post

    t. Unless you develop some life changing mega popular app, you are going to write some boring codes and who knows what for a very long time. At the same time, in order for your app to be successful, you need to have a little bit of everything. You have to be an entrepreneur, a marketer, copywriter, leader, a true Superman. So, we are back where we started our discussion. You need a team. They cannot be all developers, can they?
    A few things.

    FIRST

    People are making coin off far more than just super popular apps. For every Zuckerberg there are thousands of startups with people making six and seven figures off their idea. I could drop web service names here you have not heard of with 10,000 to 50,000 users paying them anywhere from $19 per month to $99. Do the multiplication.

    They don't have to come up with new content each month either

    SECOND

    Of all the people you listed the only one without having some serious cash and being an investor that is likely to walk away owning rather than just being paid a fee or a salary is the developer. You come up with an idea that just a few hundred people in each state (not counting countries outside the US) think is solid and you are golden.

    THIRD

    The percentage of developers that have made some money from learning to code DWARFS the percentage of people who make money in marketing. If you stick it out with PHP, python, any variant of C, Node, Ruby you will make money. You can use the skill for yourself with your own ideas while getting paid very well on hired jobs

    FOURTH

    Every single person in internet marketing is using the work of coders to even make possible any selling online. The whole internet is based on coding. Why in the world wouldn't I want to own some of that?

    FIFTH

    Always follow the money when you want to see what is the most likely to succeed. Notice any venture capitalists lining up to invest in any WSO seller here? Not a one. They could not care less about PDF, Video training "products" But every year they open their wallet to software startups and literally and real life make developers millionaires or near millionaires overnight.

    SIXTH

    I find Golf boring to watch but once I got out there on the greens - got to admit its an entertaining game with the right people. Shucks I still think badminton is boring but played it and had fun with the right people. watching and doing are two different things

    I'm a die hard SEO marketer but a year and a half ago i got tired of just ranking other peoples sites and having ideas I had to search around on the internet and never found answers for.

    Yep learning to programming isn't a ten minute WSO but once you start creating things and bringing ideas to life of your own it gets to be a whole lot of fun despite the challenges.

    Finally this isn't the old days - software languages with frameworks have gotten A LOT easier. Many people are still intimidated by the idea of programming when they don't have to be.
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      Instead of saying "show me the money" to others, we should say "follow the money" to ourselves.

      Notes worth remembering. Appreciated.

      P.S.
      Thought a marketer prince in the shinny armor will comment and say, look I have dozens of developers working for me. But, I guess that's not gonna happen, lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author aizaku
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Finally this isn't the old days - software languages with frameworks have gotten A LOT easier. Many people are still intimidated by the idea of programming when they don't have to be.
      thanks Mike,

      any resources you'd like to recommend to ppl who'd like to start programming (in Java for example)?

      -Ike Paz
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by aizaku View Post

        thanks Mike,

        any resources you'd like to recommend to ppl who'd like to start programming (in Java for example)?

        -Ike Paz
        Java is pretty big in circles like phone app development but its not an easy first language,I think most people here would probably be better to start out with building web apps and they would be surprised how much easier it is than they thought to get going (mastering is still work).

        let me give a quick example - most people would think it impossible for them to build a blog on their own complete with logins. Just the part where people enter their username with password and then it logs the user in and shows their name up top would seem like a big deal. In a PHP framework like laravel you know how you do that?

        Type "php artisan make:auth"
        and then "php artisan migrate"

        and you now have a log in and registration system and a user model and database access has been set up to record the users logins and allow them to log in.

        now does that mean you are now a programmer and have something great? - nope...not that easy but add some more coding to protect certain posts and add a paypal module and you are pretty close to your own membership system you never have to pay anyone for and can build unique features into as you learn more

        This is why I think some programming knowledge is jsut good internet marketing. People always talk about USP (unique selling point). If you really want to be unique it helps dramatically for you to have something unique on your site. Its harder to stand out when you are trying to do every idea with WP plugins tens of thousands of people have. Of course you can hire someone to do that but as with most things in life - you generally need to have basic knowledge of something to be able to know who to hire, what they may be able to achieve and what the time period and challenges will be.

        Now if you personally want to dive into all kinds of programming personally I'd go with a C language like C#. People can say what they want about MS but few languages have reach into games, web , desktop programs and phone apps. FOr that I'd recommend Pluralsight (and I believe they have some Java stuff too)

        MS even arranges for you to get access for free for three months here

        https://www.visualstudio.com/dev-essentials/
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  • Profile picture of the author Punit Rao
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  • Profile picture of the author seobuzz
    According to me you are trying to follow a direction because someone has convinced you that what you are doing currently is bad for your future. In that case you are moving towards wrong direction!

    I am not saying that programming is a bad way to make money online. Definitely there is money in programming just like in design, social media, SEO, flipping .. the list will go on. What is more important is that you need to be persistent.

    Otherwise if you don't get success in programming too, you will again change your trade. And the circle of failure will continue.
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      Straight to the point!! Not all of developers are successful. Just like not every copywriter or writer has published a successful book.

      Do what you do and try to master it. To be the best at what you do. Have to admit you found the right words. I appreciate it.

      "And the circle of failure will continue."

      This one was definitely your best line.

      Thank you,
      N
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  • You know, just because someone developed an app doesn't mean it will instantly become a success, and this is where marketing is very much needed. Sure, you can use app monetization platform like AdMob or AppNext or any other one and you won't have to worry about the promotion at all, but many developers can't do it at the beginning, so they need to promote the app themselves.
    Besides, money isn't everything! If what you do makes you happy, it is more important than how much you earn.
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      Originally Posted by madaboutmarketing View Post

      You know, just because someone developed an app doesn't mean it will instantly become a success, and this is where marketing is very much needed. Sure, you can use app monetization platform like AdMob or AppNext or any other one and you won't have to worry about the promotion at all, but many developers can't do it at the beginning, so they need to promote the app themselves.
      Besides, money isn't everything! If what you do makes you happy, it is more important than how much you earn.
      I think I am an average person in terms of intelligence and the ability to learn. I tried some Golang. Wrote some nice stuff for my daughter's home work math assignments. But that wasn't a funny activity for me. Guess I will follow my heart, yet it would be nice if this "follow-up" ends with some money, lol.

      Cheers,
      N
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  • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
    Don't think of it as "building apps" so much as "building products" and yes, there is some strong truth to the notion that being a creator of products does afford a different set of opportunities than freelancing, working at a job, consulting, etc... buys you.

    The most important is the leverage you get by creating once and selling many times - there is nothing that beats the leverage of a product that sells...

    When it comes down to it, products are simply packaged value - whether that is code that does something like an app or a course that trains people to get results or a book or ebook that teaches and instructs people - you still get the leverage of creating once and selling many times.

    If your field is copywriting, then as you get better, create copywriting courses, a portfolio of copywriting templates to get people started or a swipe file, interview 10 copywriters and package the information, etc... From these, you get a product to sell - doesn't have to be an app

    Jeff
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      Originally Posted by jbsmith View Post

      Don't think of it as "building apps" so much as "building products" and yes, there is some strong truth to the notion that being a creator of products does afford a different set of opportunities than freelancing, working at a job, consulting, etc... buys you.

      The most important is the leverage you get by creating once and selling many times - there is nothing that beats the leverage of a product that sells...

      When it comes down to it, products are simply packaged value - whether that is code that does something like an app or a course that trains people to get results or a book or ebook that teaches and instructs people - you still get the leverage of creating once and selling many times.

      If your field is copywriting, then as you get better, create copywriting courses, a portfolio of copywriting templates to get people started or a swipe file, interview 10 copywriters and package the information, etc... From these, you get a product to sell - doesn't have to be an app

      Jeff
      Thx Jeff. Appreciated.

      Forgive me if I repeat myself, but sometimes it's hard for me to keep a track of things I said. But one of my clients, I did regular blog writing for, actually offered me to do a little bit of Golang studying, lol. You know in my free time. Like he needs a Golang developer. So, I asked which one you need more? A developer or a copywriter? He was like both, lol. Maybe, he was just being kind. You know not to hurt my feelings.

      Thx.
      N
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  • Profile picture of the author gingerninjas
    Hi Nesha,

    This all sounds a little like school yard stuff.

    Firstly, would you really change your career basely solely on potentially a ton of money. Maybe that's some people's main motivation however I'd never do something just to earn more especially if I A) didn't have any experience in it B) didn't have a passion for it C) was just doing it to keep up with a dude that drives a spaceship car.

    I'm sure you chose your niche of content writing / copywriting for a reason and although there are going to be people out there that have more cash in their pockets for whatever reason I would focus on your product/service.

    I realised a while back that partnerships with graphic designers, web developers and SEO groups were a great way to bring in extra business passively, and I have firm partnerships with about 8 groups who send me heaps of copywriting and content writing work.

    It's always important to continuously educate yourself and if you're finding you have a driving passion to start developing apps and software that's your choice however I'd steer clear from only doing something due to the fact that someone else said you should.
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      I know GN, but there's such a demand for developers that I can't help asking myself what am I doing. Have so many friends and family, they were like I don't have a problem finding a job after only a six months crash course. Sometimes, I am just so tired and I think about this change more and more. Looking at my kids. Quite frankly, I would like to see them study some IT stuff rather than English literature. At least, they won't have to worry about their future employment. Right?
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  • Profile picture of the author minishuu
    I do see some writing jobs that also ask for some front-end development, or just word press development skills. It might be a good idea to learn some new skills and demand higher rates. You don't have to box yourself into just one thing. There are doctors who have businesses. Chefs who are also writers and even programmers who are bloggers or authors too! But of course these people are doing these stuff because they want to and it's not just for the money.
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      Originally Posted by minishuu View Post

      I do see some writing jobs that also ask for some front-end development, or just word press development skills. It might be a good idea to learn some new skills and demand higher rates. You don't have to box yourself into just one thing. There are doctors who have businesses. Chefs who are also writers and even programmers who are bloggers or authors too! But of course these people are doing these stuff because they want to and it's not just for the money.
      An excellent point, indeed. I can accept an approach that the times when we had people specialized in only one field are long gone. A little bit of everything you like and want to learn about. Really, why not?

      Thx,
      N
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  • Profile picture of the author RefuseToLose
    At this point in the game I think it's a little too late to learn how to code (for money making reasons).

    Coding jobs are constantly getting replaced with cheaper alternatives overseas. So overall costs will continue to decline as far as coding goes. If you are only interested in coding for your own benefit, that's fine. Just don't get into coding thinking you're going to create the next best app idea and become rich off it.

    Do it because it's an interesting hobby and skill to have and expect nothing out of it and you will be happy with the results you do get from it...
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    • Profile picture of the author neshaword
      Originally Posted by RefuseToLose View Post

      At this point in the game I think it's a little too late to learn how to code (for money making reasons).

      Coding jobs are constantly getting replaced with cheaper alternatives overseas. So overall costs will continue to decline as far as coding goes. If you are only interested in coding for your own benefit, that's fine. Just don't get into coding thinking you're going to create the next best app idea and become rich off it.

      Do it because it's an interesting hobby and skill to have and expect nothing out of it and you will be happy with the results you do get from it...
      This also makes a perfect sense. This demand for developers will eventually reach its ultimate maximum. What will happen net with all those developers?

      Wrote a sales/promotion letter for some guys who think, they are developing the next WhatsApp. So sad. I would rather to be an author of some great new book than the next Zuckerberg, no matter how lucrative that may be.

      Thx.
      N
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