Buying domains from domainers... advice?

[JonathanBoettcher]

Hi guys,

I'm working on developing a guitar training product, and unfortunately the majority of the cool product names I've brainstormed - and believe me, we've been braining up a storm for a while now =( - are already taken.

Good news is, most of them aren't in use. Just being squatted on by domainers.

So my question is this: Does anyone have experience buying domains from domainers, and if so, any advice? Is it worth it to get a broker? Best to deal direct? Are they open to offers and haggling?

Cheers

[TristanPerry]

It's not squatting, we're allowed to own domains too Squatting is illegal, domain ownership is legal

As for buying a domain - don't bother with a broker unless it's a mid $x,xxx+ name.

One issue you may run into if it's a normal domainer is they may think you are a rich end user, hence ask for some silly amount for a domain which may only be worth $xx or less. But you should be able to 'get' reseller prices easily enough after saying the right things.

It's hard to advise without knowing the domain and your budget. Feel free to PM me those details. I'm a domainer hence can help/advise you if you want

[JonathanBoettcher]

Originally Posted by TristanPerry

It's not squatting, we're allowed to own domains too Squatting is illegal, domain ownership is legal

LOL thanks for clearing that up . I know its perfectly legal and all, just sometimes your business model throws an extra step into mine .

Thanks for the tips though - I'll PM you.

Cheers

[TristanPerry]

Originally Posted by JonathanBoettcher

LOL thanks for clearing that up . I know its perfectly legal and all, just sometimes your business model throws an extra step into mine .

Thanks for the tips though - I'll PM you.

Cheers

Hehe yeah no worries Just some people get confused so I 'remind' people Sorry to be picky

Okay sure thing

Tristan

[Voasi]

I've purchased lots of domains from domains. Email them, if that's the route, or go through SEDO, etc... and put out your starting bid. They'll counter and you just keep going through that process until it's sold.

For these domainers though, most of them have no clue how much each individual domain is making them, specifically the small domains that don't get any type-in traffic. So, they're just waiting for someone to give them a bid on the domain. They want to sell it, just remember that, so you just got to figure on what you're willing to pay and start low and work your way up to that number, if need-be.

[JonathanBoettcher]

That's a good point Voasi... the domains I'm looking at should have zero type in traffic... not keyworded at all.

[andwings2go]

No offense to anyone that is a "domainer", but the investment to own all of those .com domains that no one wanted must have been barely a penny a name and would fall into the definition of squatting. Sedo wants the offer to begin at $60.

So, I am just opting for the .net and I hope everyone else does the same. I know, capitalism and the spirit of entrepreneurship and you were the wise investors and yada yada yada. But, to me and some other people I've talked to...its more like you guys were first in line at the buffet and ran around spitting on all the food, forcing us to fill our plates with .net.

Seriously though, I really hope I'm not annoying anyone...I discovered this forum Friday night and I haven't slept yet. THANK YOU! All of you, even the domainers. ;-)

[salegurus]

Have you considered buying an expiring domain? Try godaddy, advanced search and highlight the $5 auctions, i have managed to pickup some nice keyword rich domains.

[TristanPerry]

Originally Posted by andwings2go

No offense to anyone that is a "domainer", but the investment to own all of those .com domains that no one wanted must have been barely a penny a name and would fall into the definition of squatting. Sedo wants the offer to begin at $60.

So, I am just opting for the .net and I hope everyone else does the same. I know, capitalism and the spirit of entrepreneurship and you were the wise investors and yada yada yada. But, to me and some other people I've talked to...its more like you guys were first in line at the buffet and ran around spitting on all the food, forcing us to fill our plates with .net.

Seriously though, I really hope I'm not annoying anyone...I discovered this forum Friday night and I haven't slept yet. THANK YOU! All of you, even the domainers. ;-)

Squatting is illegally holding a domain name in bad faith, usually to profit off an established brand in some way.

Domaining (which simply means to buy/sell/develop domain names) is 100% legal

Mind you, I'm a domainer but I don't go around regging any name under the sun (usually only newbies - who end up making a loss - or massive, spammy companies do this sort of thing).

So yeah, I know what you are saying (and can fully understand that point of view); I just wish to point out that domaining is 100% legal, whereas "squatting" is illegal.

Such a view would be a bit like saying that people who own knifes are breaking the law due to some people getting stabbed, etc

But don't get me wrong - I can fully understand why you have this view I'm just wanting to say about the domainer-squatter definitions.

Plus as an aside point, some domains (usually generic .coms) are worth millions (or $xx,xxx-$xxx,xxx) today - however perhaps 10-15 years ago they were worthless.

This is when some of the earliest domainers got in, holding domains for sometimes over a decade in hope that their value will rise (and spending hundreds on reg fees over the years). In this case, I don't see anything wrong with "them getting to the buffet first", since this is sort of like an investment IMO

Just, for example, I own some nice LLLL.coms and LLL.net domains; whose value should rise from the $xxx/low $x,xxx they are currently worth.. even if I do have to hold them for quite a few years yet.

(But again; I don't go around regging any domain under the sun. This is what quite a few "new" domainers do, and they nearly always all find out that it's not profitable )

Edit: I talk too much; apologies for the long post

[Gene Pimentel]

Jonathan,

Here's my tip. Find the domain you're interested in at Sedo.com or Afternic.com, to try to get a feel of what they're asking for the domain. Most people who list on these sites have pie-in-the-sky aspirations and hope to make a killing. The reality though, is many will accept a much, much smaller amount, especially if it's getting close to renewal time.

Initially, don't make an offer through Sedo or Afternic. Instead, look up their WHOIS information and approach them directly, and tell them you want to add a few names to your inventory and you're looking at a list of several names you're considering to buy at a reseller price. Let them know you may be interested in their domain if the price is low enough for you to resell easily. Domainers will understand this language and in many cases work with you on a different level than an end-user consumer.

Let them know that you're ready to buy and you're contacting a dozen different sellers, and will go with whoever gives you a price you can work with.

Many won't budge from their higher asking prices. That's fine. Reply to them with "No problem, thanks anyway". and move on (even if it's a domain that you really want). The ball will now be in their court, and if they were just bluffing, once they know you're moving on, they will often come back to you with a lower number. Others you approach in this way will be glad to sell at pennies on the dollar to unload the domain from their inventory.

Originally Posted by JonathanBoettcher

Hi guys,

I'm working on developing a guitar training product, and unfortunately the majority of the cool product names I've brainstormed - and believe me, we've been braining up a storm for a while now =( - are already taken.

Good news is, most of them aren't in use. Just being squatted on by domainers.

So my question is this: Does anyone have experience buying domains from domainers, and if so, any advice? Is it worth it to get a broker? Best to deal direct? Are they open to offers and haggling?

Cheers

[Gene Pimentel]

Originally Posted by andwings2go

But, to me and some other people I've talked to...its more like you guys were first in line at the buffet and ran around spitting on all the food, forcing us to fill our plates with .net.

Haha! Love that imagery. I'm wondering if you feel the same way about real estate developers who buy up premium parcels of land, only to sell off the parcels at many times their investment price. Or those who purchase a house and resell for a profit.

While there was a time that you could be "the first in line" when the domain name market started to boom, that does not hold true today. I purchase domain names that are available today, which ANYONE can register before me, if they'd only get up out of their chair and choose from the 'buffet'. Nobody has an advantage over the next. Nobody is designated to be 'the first in line'. The one who is the first in line made that choice, which is open to anyone who decides to do so.

There are 30,000 to 60,000 domain names that expire EVERY DAY. That is a mighty enormous buffet table. Anyone can choose to spend the time to look through that huge list and pick up a domain name or two that appeals to their taste. It's a level playing field for everyone.

You can also choose to take the investor route, by buying a premium domain name for $1,000+ and remarketing it for whatever profit margin you see fit, just as resal estate developers do.

By the way... welcome to the forum andwings2go! I've enjoyed your posts :-)

[davezan]

Originally Posted by andwings2go

would fall into the definition of squatting.

That depends on whose definition of squatting we're talking here.

To expand what TristanPerry posted, squatting is supposedly...supposedly...
registering and "using" a domain name with the intent to make money off of a
trademark. Outside that, many people have their own definitions of what they
want squatting to be.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by davezan

To expand what TristanPerry posted, squatting is supposedly...supposedly... registering and "using" a domain name with the intent to make money off of a trademark. Outside that, many people have their own definitions of what they want squatting to be.

I've always defined it as "the purchase of a domain with no intention of developing or using it except as a valuable property to be resold."

You can't really legislate against that, though, because it's all about what you're thinking. I own several domains that I planned to use and just plain didn't. How can you tell the difference? You can't! You'd have to read my mind!

So we drew the line where we could with the law, and I completely agree that the law stops where it ought to stop... but I still call it "squatting."

Because what are you doing with the domain? SQUAT!