Do you curse in your products?

[Scott Ames]

Some don't mind cursing at all. Some however find it very offensive which is why it surprises me that some marketers include it in their products. Sure, you must be yourself and I guess if you are successful you've found your audience. Still I wonder if you leave money on the table when you curse.

I was surprised that Tony Robbins does it. He didn't in the beginning at least not on tape. I guess he is now big enough that it doesn't matter and he is just going to be himself.

or

Have styles and what is acceptable changed?


I don't mind cursing. It doesn't bother me as much as it does some, but I will admit it makes me think slightly less of the person and I'm not even sure why. I say that knowing that I do it too when I'm angry, but I can't imagine doing it casually on tape or in normal conversation.

[Brian Cook]

Hey Scott,

Personally, I would never use profanity on a
sales page but that's just me.

That said, I'm sure some use it to great profit!

Brian

[thenextlevel]

I think if you use it in the right concept it can be okay. Never on a sales page though. Frank Kern does it, but all his videos are so laid back it doesn't seem out of place. For me personally I wouldn't do it.

[Lance K]

Nope. I left 'em all on the golf course (where they belong).

[dorim]

I don't like profanity and I don't use it in any of my sales pages or products.

[angela99]

It depends on your market. Some markets are more "edgy" than others, and it's a way of getting attention which seems to work in those venues.

That said, most of the time it's not worth alienating a part of your audience.

Marketing is selling, so think about it. Would you buy from a salesperson who used profanity?

You'll only know when you test.

Big clue -- if it makes you uncomfortable, don't. :-)

Cheers

Angela

[netcatapult]

I can't believe Tony Robbins is cursing in his products now. I don't think you should curse but I guess it really depends on what your selling and your who your target audience is.

[mr2020]

Sure,

I curse on my forums and in my ad copy too. Of course, I market to those who to some degree crave it. Most NLP is "stuck up prim and proper" so, I let it fly.

Twenty Twenty

[patJ]

Ever heard of the rich jerk? Probably the best selling ebook of all time. Of course, the rich jerk doesn't exist, he's just a character, so it might be easier to act that way.

[JonathanBoettcher]

If your sales character or persona tries hard to be against the grain or anti-establishment in some way, then you'll likely get away with it.

However personally I would never do that in a product of mine. I think you can get the point across that you're different without having to resort to swearing.

Side point - what about stand up comedy that basically relies on swearing to get a rise out of people? Seems like an easy way out to me... hard to find stand ups that are clean these days, because it takes more work. There will always be people out there that will appreciate you for it though, and the same with our products.

/2cents

[Pete Egeler]

I wouldn't, and I'm really beginning to wonder what today's parents are teaching their kids!

The increasing wave of 4-letter laced language is really upsetting.

Frankly, I don't care for the garbage mouth crowd. I don't care WHAT your name is, there's no excuse for it.

Pete

[JohnMcCabe]

I think it depends on your audience and your definition of cursing. If you're trying to be one of the guys in the locker room, let it fly. From what some of my female acquaintances tell me, you girls can be even worse.

Watch TV, especially the late night talk shows, and you'll see those guys get away with language that would have left you watching a test pattern 20 years ago - and they're pretty mild.

I have nothing against occasional, mild cursing in context. Getting frustrated and calling something 'dumb-assed' or letting a 'dammit' slip doesn't bother me. Make it too prevalent and I start wondering how many other words you might know if those are the only ones you use.

Jonathan, your point about standup comedy is a great illustration. The other night, my wife and I watched a Comedy Central show featuring Bob Saget (best known as the father on Full House and the schlub hosting America's Funniest Videos). If you took out the f-bombs and the pedophile jokes, his act was about ten minutes long. At first, the contrast to his normal on-air personas was a little amusing (Danny Tanner said that?) By minute 15 it was boring, and when it was over our reaction was 'there's an hour of our life we'll never get back'.

On the other hand, I can listen to routines by guys like Bob Newhart and Don Rickles and Bill Cosby and laugh so hard I ache - some of their subject matter may be PG, but the language was pure G.

Edit:

I want to clarify something. I don't care for deliberate profanity in salesletters or written products where the creator has time to come up with something else. In an unscripted video or telecall, I don't mind if something slips out.

[dv8]

Originally Posted by thenextlevel

I think if you use it in the right concept it can be okay.

I think that is the important part right there. That and what your audience is. Think of it this way, if you are a young 20 something year old male, cursing around your friends is acceptable. But talk that way in front of senior citizens and the reactions change.

Even still, cursing here or there in the right context, imo, is ok. Cursing too much, imo, is going overboard.

[patJ]

Originally Posted by Pete Egeler

I wouldn't, and I'm really beginning to wonder what today's parents are teaching their kids!

The increasing wave of 4-letter laced language is really upsetting.

Frankly, I don't care for the garbage mouth crowd. I don't care WHAT your name is, there's no excuse for it.

Pete

Being elitist and rude is way worse than using any kind of word in any kind of situation.

[TerrieS]

Warning--Prude Alert! I personally think cursing is demeaning to both parties--the person who uses it and the person who hears or reads it. Most people who swear are very aware of the language they are using--it's not just a matter of the words just slipping out. That certainly holds true for someone writing sales copy. My husband likes to watch Hell's Kitchen--I can't believe the language they use. They just look like uneducated fools. Now, I do like Jason, but I wish he would clean up his mouth!

[Hesaidblissfully]

It depends on the persona you put out there.

Some people just don't like profanity at all, from anyone. Then there are people who don't usually mind profanity, but are taken aback when it seems contrary to the speaker's persona (ie: the Bob Saget phenomenon mentioned above). That's probably also why hearing Tony Robbins curse was a bit jarring.

On the other hand, I think if Samuel L. Jackson ever puts out a product on how to make money online, people will be disappointed if he DOESN'T curse.

[Kay King]

I think there's a difference between what you say in a locker room or among friends and what you write on a sales page or in an email.

Will you ever antagonize a customer because you DON'T use four letter words? Probably not.

Will you antagonize some customers who see profanity as lack of respect or simply low class? Probably. My own first thought when I see it from a marketer is "written by a kid". That may not be the case - but it's my perception so for me it's true and I move on.

What you might say to a friend or he might say to you isn't the same as spewing to people who don't know you except through the words you use.

kay

[JW888]

Slight cursing may be okay if used in the right context but I wouldn't recommend
cursing in your products because it will turn off some people right away. You want
to gain the respect of the reader, and cursing tends to have the opposite effect.

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by TerrieS

Warning--Prude Alert! I personally think cursing is demeaning to both parties--the person who uses it and the person who hears or reads it. Most people who swear are very aware of the language they are using--it's not just a matter of the words just slipping out. That certainly holds true for someone writing sales copy. My husband likes to watch Hell's Kitchen--I can't believe the language they use. They just look like uneducated fools. Now, I do like Jason, but I wish he would clean up his mouth!

Terrie, my grandfather was the head chef for years in a fine dining restaurant in Minneapolis called Charlie's Cafe' Exceptionale. (It doesn't look like it from your avatar, but perhaps you might be old enough to remember it.) Uneducated was a common theme in the kitchen, but not fools. A kitchen in the middle of a busy dinner service is a high stress environment, even without a Gordon Ramsey vocabulary. What you see on Hell's Kitchen isn't that far from reality at times.

While my late grandfather could peel the paint from the walls in the kitchen, in the dining room he was a polished gentleman. Away from work, he was just Grandpa, who threw some of the best barbecues and holiday dinners I can remember.

It was all about matching his behavior to his environment.

[dsiomtw]

Obama called Kanye "douchebag" West a jackass the other day ... and it was funny. Like others have said, it's all in the context and knowing your audience. I'm working on a new salesletter right now and it's going to have a few curse words in it. Anyone who is offended by it would never buy the product anyway, and I guarantee you that if I were to split test it, the version with the curse words in it will outpull a "prude" version.

John Carlton is probably the greatest copywriter of all time. He curses all the time, in the right way and with the right audience. Ya think he knows a thing or two?

[JonathanBoettcher]

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

I want to clarify something. I don't care for deliberate profanity in salesletters or written products where the creator has time to come up with something else. In an unscripted video or telecall, I don't mind if something slips out.

Well said, John. People who take the time to write a sales letter have plenty of options at their disposal.

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

I'm working on a new salesletter right now and it's going to have a few curse words in it. Anyone who is offended by it would never buy the product anyway, and I guarantee you that if I were to split test it, the version with the curse words in it will outpull a "prude" version.

I'd be interested to see that matchup, actually. But not letter A, including curse words vs letter B, same thing but words deleted.

Letter A, with curse words, vs Letter B, intelligently re-worked to exclude them.

Would be interesting, at least.

[dsiomtw]

One of John Carlton's better salesletters, in my opinion, is a raw, visceral letter that he wrote to sell a "how to" self-defense video. It sold like crazy, and the story that sold it is filled with curse words. Are you people honestly claiming you know more about copywriting than John Carlton?

[JonathanBoettcher]

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

One of John Carlton's better salesletters, in my opinion, is a raw, visceral letter that he wrote to sell a "how to" self-defense video. It sold like crazy, and the story that sold it is filled with curse words. Are you people honestly claiming you know more about copywriting than John Carlton?

No, of course not. I think there are really two parts to the question. One is whether or not it works better. The other is should we really be doing that, from a moral perspective.

Two totally different perspectives and arguments.

[Kevin Riley]

No. Cursing is not acceptable in my products. I don't think it is professional.

I grew up as a cowboy and worked as a carpenter, so swear words are a natural part of my vocabulary, but not in products. There is a line.

[guitar2godist]

No Way!
That is a really bad idea, why?
because profanity is for suckers!

[dsiomtw]

OMG some of these responses are mind-blowing. Are you guys marketers??

[haxor]

No because your reaching a vast audience, some curse, others dont. Most dont think its professional. Well then again the Rich Jerk has millions but he just insults you i really dont think he curses.

[dsiomtw]

Do people read posts before responding? It depends on the context, and the audience. This is like talking to a brick wall. Peace out!

[dalvia]

Cursing is a WEAK way to get people's attention and display's a lack of tack. I know it's NLP driven but unless you're a Ferrel with no self control, I'd used more creative way to get people's attention.

If you want to SHOCK people, think of other ways that still creates controversy without offending people,

Dale

[Ricky Parker]

I ****ing say whatever the **** I want wherever the **** I please.

I'll say **** **** on the sales page and say **** **** in the ebook.

**** **** **** I say **** **** ****

[Rod Cortez]

I don't use profanity in MOST of the niches I'm involved in. But there are definitely a couple where I do. My split-testing and tracking has shown that in these two niches, using SOME profanity actually increases my conversions because the demographic and the subculture these niches have are used to a little profane language.

I find the argument for not "offending" people a weak one because enough people get offended without using profanity. Some get offended when you ask them to "opt-in". Some of them get offended if you send them more than one e-mail a week. Some get offended because the word "geek" or "nerd" was used in your sales copy (yes, I got an e-mail like that recently). While I do my best not to offend people, trying to please everyone is not only foolish, but it's not good business.

RoD "You're a @#$%!!!" Cortez

[RevenueGal]

It's unprofessional. As an affiliate marketer I go to great lengths to avoid promoting products by those who curse.

[Kevin Riley]

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

I don't use profanity in MOST of the niches I'm involved in. But there are definitely a couple where I do. My split-testing and tracking has shown that in these two niches, using SOME profanity actually increases my conversions because the demographic and the subculture these niches have are used to a little profane language.

I find the argument for not "offending" people a weak one because enough people get offended without using profanity. Some get offended when you ask them to "opt-in". Some of them get offended if you send them more than one e-mail a week. Some get offended because the word "geek" or "nerd" was used in your sales copy (yes, I got an e-mail like that recently). While I do my best not to offend people, trying to please everyone is not only foolish, but it's not good business.

RoD "You're a @#$%!!!" Cortez

I'm offended by your name and the way you cap D.

[Rod Cortez]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

I'm offended by your name and the way you cap D.

Speaking of caps, Hamster connoisseur, you're going to get a cap in your @#$%! for being offended.

<Grabs martini shaker and pours vodka in it>

RoD

[IdeaLady]

In general, the use of profanity is not appropriate in business. However, it may be that one well-placed curse word can get attention and make a point very effectively.

The problem is that many of the people using curse words use them all the time. They lose their power if you use them every time you open your mouth. In some niches that may work, but not most.

BTW--Tony Robbins has been hanging out with Frank Kern lately. Think there's a connection?

[Variable]

Seems a little unprofessional in most cases, not that there aren't exceptions. I'm not really offended by it but I wouldn't take the chance that my audience wouldn't be put off. I think I would err on the side of caution.

[fxmmorale]

This is an interesting conversation and it seems like it's all about how comfortable you feel in the representation of yourself and your brand.

It's no secret that some of the most respected professionals probably swear up and down behind closed doors and when they're with their buddies, but would hardly ever use it to represent their brand.

What's interesting is that these same people who would use it, might look down upon those of a certain population as lesser without expecting to reap the same judgement.

Someone asked if we were marketers, well the question is not about marketing, but about values. Obviously everyone has a different value level and if you have kids, ask yourself what kind of marketing would you find acceptable for them to be exposed to?

[Mike Calvert]

Refraining from the use of profanity is not about being "elitist" and looking down on people. It is about lifting people up.

Over the years, I have spoken my share of curse words, expressed in the heat of the moment. However, for the life of me, I can't remember ever having thoughtfully written profanity into any of my business correspondence, info products, or advertising copy.

Perhaps, this is because I fail to see where the use of profanity makes me a better person for having written it. Nor, do I see where it lifts my prospect up, enriches their life, and makes them a better person for having read it.

Although, I must admit, if my job was selling crack, I'd probably sell more by using a few carefully selected curse words.

[dsiomtw]

Obviously everyone has a different value level and if you have kids, ask yourself what kind of marketing would you find acceptable for them to be exposed to?

Who said anything about marketing to kids? Of course if you're marketing to kids you're not going to use curse words. doh!

[JoelMatthews]

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

Who said anything about marketing to kids? Of course if you're marketing to kids you're not going to use curse words. doh!

Kids? Technically up until 18 you are a child, I am a kid, and although I don't mind reading profanity in a sales letter, if they are acting all prim and proper on a forum, I would feel deceived, however if I knew they were into it I wouldn't mind. Tonnes and tonnes of children curse, and it normal for them. They watch enough TV and movies, I doubt one sales letter would hurt.

[Swanton84]

To me, cursing in a sales page does attract me to read more. However, I do not practise this technique myself. I believe there are definitely better ways to do your sales pitch.

[Kim Standerline]

Yes but I imagine their parents do!

Originally Posted by PapiShasho

You also won't find too many kids with credit cards.

I've been nursing for nearly 35 years, and I can assure you my mouth can strip paint if I let fly. It's something common amongst many nurses. (Well the one's I know of anyway). I've seen the times my husband has threatened to wash my mouth out with soap and water!

Having said that, there is a time and a place to let rip, relieving stress in the sluice with some well chosen profanity is a lot different to going out there and verbally abusing the patients. (And that is what it amounts to.)

Point I'm trying to make is if you're adding profanity to your sales page, then it amounts to the same thing as verbally abusing your customers.

Ok I'll admit there may be occassions when it's appropriate such as the sex industry etc. But on the whole I think its a bad idea.

You're not telling me that you're going to lose customers because you didn't say something foul, I just don't believe it. In fact I would suggest that you are more likely to turn more customers away using bad language

It's just not cool folks despite the Frank Kern's of this world

Kim

[seasoned]

NOBODY can say ANYONE has used it to profit. It they get $1Trillion who is to say that by not cursing they wouldn't get $2Trillion. BTW I don't curse.

steve

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by dsiomtw

One of John Carlton's better salesletters, in my opinion, is a raw, visceral letter that he wrote to sell a "how to" self-defense video. It sold like crazy, and the story that sold it is filled with curse words. Are you people honestly claiming you know more about copywriting than John Carlton?

You're trying to prove the rule by citing the exception. Yes, that particular letter is filled with curse words, and I'll bet Carlton can give you specific reasons why he used every single one of them and why that curse word and not another.

If you believe you have that same skill level, and you put the same thought and effort into choosing and using words, have at it.

[Kelly Verge]

No.

My kids have never heard me curse.

My parents have never heard me curse.

Why would I curse to, at, or for my customers?

[dorim]

I just unsubscribed from a list I'd been on for a few weeks because he had a special offer he was promoting that sent me to another site with the most vulgar headline I'd ever seen. No, it wasn't profanity, but it was crass, and crude and he lost one list member because of it.I won't post the link here because I don't know if it will get me banned. I don't even know what the offer was because I clicked off after reading the headline. Wouldn't it be better to write headlines and sales pages that appeal to all groups of people?

[Raydal]

I want to be blessed, not cursed so I don't curse period.

-Ray Edwards

[fifthnormal]

Why curse when you don't have to? It seems that you are only adding in the possibility of offending someone by putting that in your sales copy. Offending someone is a sure way to lose a sale.

[marciayudkin]

Just this morning I was listening to a well-known Internet marketer (male) doing a preview call for a conference where probably 70 percent of the attendees will be women business owners. He wasn't cursing, but he was using a lot of denigrating and disrespectful language like "stupid" - words that a lot of moms don't let their kids use in casual conversation and words that a lot of women don't like to hear, period.

I don't often do this, but I turned off the recording and did not want to listen to another word from him. His use of such language made me uninterested in the conference and made me question the judgment of the woman running the conference, who to be frank sounded a little nervous during the call before I shut it off. I don't know if that was the reason.

The bottom line is that you have to be true to yourself and you have to match your audience's expectations.

It's rare that there's an audience that will reject you because you don't curse and put people down. It's pretty common to find an audience that will think poorly of you if you do these things.

Marcia Yudkin

[Jeff_Gardner]

BTW, I've been to Tony's "Date with Destiny" event and he cursed like a sailor there. Didn't bother me a bit... but I know some people were put off. Personally, I wouldn't do it, just because I know my market - and it'd turn off more than it'd attract. BUT - there are some markets (and some niches of markets) where it actually attracts your market. My opinion is: If it works for your niche/market, give it a shot. It's about marketing, in most cases - not about our made-up social norms.

But then again, that's my opinion.

Best,
Jeff