I'm going to have to stop accepting paypal

[Emailrevealer]

All the buyer has to do is say their account was "hacked". End of story.
I have a recorded phone call with the buyer.
I traced the IP# from the purchase to the IP# that I emailed the informtaion to.

The guy claiming his account was hacked is still using the same phone # and the same email account on the same IP#.


Paypal says the account was hacked, case closed.

[Norma Holt]

You could have appealed! I think Paypal is too valuable a resource to ditch.

[Christopher R Everson]

Don't give up just because you lose some cases!

If this happens a lot, ask yourself why it's happening, and how you can prevent it. Learn more about how paypal works, and if there is a more serious reason people want their money back.

In internet marketing, refund rates are generally higher, just because of the nature of the market, but there are always things you can do to cut back on this stuff.

Was this a giant sale, like a website deal that went through?

If that's the case, there are other options you may wish to consider. I had a similar instance where I tried selling a site through paypal, and long story short, the guy somehow got to keep my domain name, which obviously sucks!

[Kevin Riley]

You would give up PayPal because a customer cheated you?

That's like saying you're never going to go to the beach again because it rained? Or you'll give up skiing because last time there wasn't enough snow? Or chasing girls because the one you kissed last night turned out to be a guy? Or buying apples because you found a worm in one?

C'mon! Are you a marketer?

[Christopher R Everson]

Hehe, not gonna lie Kevin, if I found out that pretty dame I kissed last night was a guy, I'd probably give up drinking

[Kevin Riley]

Originally Posted by Christopher R Everson

Hehe, not gonna lie Kevin, if I found out that pretty dame I kissed last night was a guy, I'd probably give up drinking

Naw, just pull a Crocodile Dundee gender check from now on. Nothing should ever make you stop drinking.

[Christopher R Everson]

Lol you always make me laugh, although at this eastern time zone hour thats not too hard to do.

Are the Japanese a heavy drinking society?

[BIG Mike]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

You would give up PayPal because a customer cheated you?

That's like saying you're never going to go to the beach again because it rained? Or you'll give up skiing because last time there wasn't enough snow? Or chasing girls because the one you kissed last night turned out to be a guy? Or buying apples because you found a worm in one?

C'mon! Are you a marketer?

Now that's experience talking

Seriously, PayPal is so widely used, especially in IM, you'd be nuts to dump it. ****e happens - just put it behind you and move on.

[Kevin Riley]

Originally Posted by Christopher R Everson

Lol you always make me laugh, although at this eastern time zone hour thats not too hard to do.

Are the Japanese a heavy drinking society?

They are here in Osaka. It's quite normal to see a group of salarymen weaving down the street propping each other up.

[Kevin Riley]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Now that's experience talking

Seriously, PayPal is so widely used, especially in IM, you'd be nuts to dump it. ****e happens - just put it behind you and move on.

Yup. Happened after I kissed your sister.

[BIG Mike]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Yup. Happened after I kissed your sister.

Yeah - Bobby has always been hot for the hairy ones...

[Darrell Hagan]

Yet another PayPal horror story .

[Ken Leatherman]

Originally Posted by Darrell Hagan

Yet another PayPal horror story .

Hey Pay Pal Horror has nothing on Kevin Riley and Big Mike being closely related by Bobby and the hamsters. Now that is

Ken

[alfardo]

Paypal always protects the buyer. is easy to make up a story about how the goods never arrived or were damaged. How your account was hacked. or my 2 year old son clciked the button by mistake. I'm getting fed up of these paypal problems but what can you do. my paypal account is healthy with plenty of dollars made very easily so i just put up and shut up as i see no alternative.

[williamtan]

Paypal does not protect buyers from unscrupulous merchant though.

I bought something via Paypal and the merchant cleverly sent a parcel with low cost "rubbish" items.

As I didn't receive what I've purchased, I raised a dispute and because the merchant show proof of shipping, Paypal discharged the case in favour of the merchant.

Reason given my Paypal is that their refund only apply to no shipment and does not include discrepancy and quality of shipped product. Not nice of them.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Guy walks into a restaurant to get something to eat and gets food poisoning
so he says, "That's it...I'm never going to a restaurant anymore."

Next day he goes to the supermarket, gets some fresh vegetables, brings
them home and when he makes his salad, finds bugs in it. He says, "That's it
I'm not buying anymore fresh vegetables."

Next day he goes to the butcher to buy some meat. Brings it up, cooks it
up and finds that it has ecoli. So he says, "That's it, I'm only eating canned
foods from now on."

Next day he opens up a can of tuna and finds it's got some kind of green
mold all over it. He says, "That's it...I'm done eating!"

5 days later he dies of starvation.

You are going to have problems no matter who you use for a payment
processor. If it's not PayPal, it will be somebody else. And let me tell you,
if somebody issues a chargeback, which anybody can do against their
credit card, that really sucks. Because you get enough of those and you
can end up losing your merchant account.

Suck it up and move on...or not.

It's entirely your decision if you want to cut off your nose to spite your
face.

[Jesus Perez]

Paypal answers to a higher authority called Visa. They will always refund the buyer to stay in their good graces. It avoids buyer chargebacks (which cost Paypal around $35 a pop).

I once had Visa compliance visit a job I worked at. The effect they had on the staff was surreal.

[Quentin]

Well it was nice knowing you but if that is your attitude then I guess you wont be selling online long.

No matter what payment processor you use you will get these every now and then.

Quentin

[Emailrevealer]

I have an authorize .net account. I already accept every major credit card.
Screw paypal. Once word gets about about saying you were hacked its going to be free money for scam artists.

Very well said Steven ... Simple and clear to the point.

I agree with Steven.

James

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Guy walks into a restaurant to get something to eat and gets food poisoning
so he says, "That's it...I'm never going to a restaurant anymore."

Next day he goes to the supermarket, gets some fresh vegetables, brings
them home and when he makes his salad, finds bugs in it. He says, "That's it
I'm not buying anymore fresh vegetables."

Next day he goes to the butcher to buy some meat. Brings it up, cooks it
up and finds that it has ecoli. So he says, "That's it, I'm only eating canned
foods from now on."

Next day he opens up a can of tuna and finds it's got some kind of green
mold all over it. He says, "That's it...I'm done eating!"

5 days later he dies of starvation.

You are going to have problems no matter who you use for a payment
processor. If it's not PayPal, it will be somebody else. And let me tell you,
if somebody issues a chargeback, which anybody can do against their
credit card, that really sucks. Because you get enough of those and you
can end up losing your merchant account.

Suck it up and move on...or not.

It's entirely your decision if you want to cut off your nose to spite your
face.

Originally Posted by Emailrevealer

I have an authorize .net account. I already accept every major credit card.
Screw paypal. Once word gets about about saying you were hacked its going to be free money for scam artists.

And even with Authorize.net (glad you can pay those high fees) you will still get chargebacks and NOTHING.. AND I MEAN NOTHING AUTHORIZE.NET CAN DO TO PROTECT YOU..

The government has given the credit card companies so much power that there really is very little anyone can do on a chargeback. You blame paypal but I hate to tell you "It is The Credit Card Company That Makes The Decision" ... Nothing paypal can do if they say "We want our money back" ...

Maybe you should go do some research on how many DONT use a credit card. I am 100% debt free and I do not own nor do I need nor do I want a credit card. If I cant pay by my paypal account then I will not buy, it's that simple and there are many buyers with this same attitude.

James

[tommygadget]

I also have a CC merchant account. I proved that someone ordered merchandise from me and signed for it. They claimed that it was a fraudulent transaction even though the items were shipped to their address. I lost the case and almost $200 and the chargeback fees on top of that. PayPal is very convenient, don't give up that service just because you had someone jerk you around.

TomG.

[Emailrevealer]

I've had merchant accounts for over 20 years and I've had hundreds of charge backs. I used to be in the beeper cell phone business and we had a full time employee to deal with charge back disputes.

I don't think I'm making myself clear. Once word gets out that you can get free goods and services by claiming your account was hacked thousands of people will do it.

Now remember I INVESTIGATE internet fraud for a living. I deal with these scams everyday. I'm seeing this more and more everyday. Just the other day a guy sold a bike on craigs list. The buyer claimed he was hacked and reversed the charges.
We have the guy traced and have him on tape. PayPal is still reversing the charges.

[Chris Lockwood]

You might as well go out of business.

Any payment processor or merchant account can issue a refund against your wishes.

You aren't safe with cash, either. It could be counterfeit or infected with anthrax spores.

PayPal does not always take the buyer's (or the seller's) side. I have won and lost on both sides there.

Out of thousands of transactions there, I've never had anyone claim their account was hacked, but it really doesn't matter what excuse they make up if the payment service takes their side.

Steven's analogy is pretty good- you wouldn't stop eating because you had a bad meal, would you?

[valerieSONORA]

That gave me an idea. I'm going to order tons of stuff through paypal then just say my account my hacked so I get all my money back and keep the stuff. Then again I'm not a thief so that's not for me. Sorry to hear another bad paypal story. I wish something could be done about thieves like that There's too many internet thieves out there and they would never be able to get away with all that in the offline world. Internet justice is lacking.

[Emailrevealer]

BTW I had this site up for about a year before we started accepting paypal. It's only about 20% of my sales and I'm sure half of those would just use a credit or debit card so I don't think I'll be going out of business over this.

[talewins]

I'm on the other side of the fence here. A surge of heavy traffic had my server closing my account. I don't blame the server as it was a very large surge. However, I lost that surging roll until I opened my mail at backup point yahoo. I don't blame my server but I am out of here. I sign up with another company by PayPal. I have my receipt, I go change my dns and settle back for the dns to resolve. All day Sunday, all day Monday. No resolve, nothing on line.
So, I call the new server. Sorry, your money isn't here yet. But I've got a receipt.
Doesn't matter. So, I head for PayPal, sure enough, my contribution to wealth has not cleared yet. So I look down a bit and there is another not cleared yet, from my bank to PayPal, three of them, big tickets. No clear yet. Oh boy!
Off to my bank I charge with blood in my eye. Well, we are sorry, but you listed your debit card at PayPal instead of your credit card. That goes by another route and may take up to five (5, count them) days to clear.
So, the money is out of my account, on its way to PayPal. PayPal is waiting on my funds, the vendor is waiting on PayPal. I've now lost four days of income. Every 15 minutes I waltz to payPal to see if the matters have cleared yet. None of them have. Three vendors have shipped the goods and they are not happy. What are you trying to pull here?
Hey I've never had any problem sending money before.
No, but there was enough already in PayPal to take care of expenditures.

So what I'm saying is, sometimes the system just flat out breaks down.

[Chris Lockwood]

So when you list the wrong card, that means the system broke down?

Originally Posted by Emailrevealer

I've had merchant accounts for over 20 years and I've had hundreds of charge backs. I used to be in the beeper cell phone business and we had a full time employee to deal with charge back disputes.

I don't think I'm making myself clear. Once word gets out that you can get free goods and services by claiming your account was hacked thousands of people will do it.

Now remember I INVESTIGATE internet fraud for a living. I deal with these scams everyday. I'm seeing this more and more everyday. Just the other day a guy sold a bike on craigs list. The buyer claimed he was hacked and reversed the charges.
We have the guy traced and have him on tape. PayPal is still reversing the charges.

PayPal DID NOT reverse the charges .. The CC Company did ... Paypal must do as they say otherwise paypal can be sued. I think you should do some more investigation..

James

[Emailrevealer]

Paypal reversed the transaction there was no credit card involved. Just the the sale of the bike on craigs list the other day.

[Instructor]

The thing about paypal is that with digital products, there's really no concrete way of proving shipping so most people that I know loose disputes/claims.

It really sucks!

[Emailrevealer]

Yeah, that's an old issue. In fact it benifited the merchant because paypal used to side with the merchant if it was a digital product.

This is something entirely new.

Claiming your acount was hacked is a license to steal. Even if it can be proven the buyer is lying paypal sides with the claim.

[AndrewCavanagh]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Or chasing girls because the one you kissed last night turned out to be a guy?

Hmmm interesting story.

Is this what turned you on to hamsters I wonder?