Stompernet Got Me...This Time NOT Awesome! Special Bonus RANT included.

[Shaun OReilly]

Originally Posted by drmani

World-views cannot be changed. What you believe is what you believe. But I choose to believe that being 'Mr.UN-Nice' is NOT a pre-requisite for either 'richness' (however you choose to define it) or 'success'.

Just my point of view, not argument - or forceful disagreement either

All success
Dr.Mani

World-views can be changed. Assuming that by world-view you mean paradigm -
the way you see the world. Hence, the term - paradigm shift.

You can change your beliefs at any time - particularly if you find that your current
world-view/paradigm does not work well in the real world.

You don't believe it when you see it - you see it when you believe it.

Change what you believe and what you see will be entirely different.

Best wishes,

Shaun

[Daniel Scott]

Shaun,

I believe Dr. Mani means that we cannot change another person's paradigm - only they can change it.

To paraphrase, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

-Dan

[Shaun OReilly]

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

Shaun,

I believe Dr. Mani means that we cannot change another person's paradigm - only they can change it.

To paraphrase, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

-Dan

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the additional perspective on Dr. Mani's statement. I hadn't looked
at it that way.

It is possible to change other's paradigms. For example, I remember a powerful
story by Stephen R. Covey in the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People where
he changed my paradigm instantly - at a distance. Sure I changed my paradigm
but he was the agent to induce my change.

People change and they often change as a result of interactions with others.

I too agree that Dr. Mani is one of the good guys on the Internet. He really does
great work and makes the best use of his resources and talents.

There are other good, genuine guys and gals on the Internet and a fare few sharks
too - and a whole host of other types in between.

Paradigms and perception determine reality. And remember that reality leaves a lot
to the immagination.

Best wishes,

Shaun

[tomw]

Dr Mani,

I didn't say that the corporate position I expressed was my own personal world view. Merely that the reality is that this view exists and that these practices occur. Yes I work as a consultant in the advertising business so I know enough about it to relay some of the practices. I hold such views about corporate marketing practices because I have worked in corporate marketing for almost twenty years.

I'm sorry, but I do disagree that people make tens or hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars by being squeaky clean and Mr. Nice Guy at every point along the way. It's damn easy to paint a Mr. Nice Guy picture when you've made it.

Just look at Michael Corleone, George Bush or Roman Abramovich

Like most people who now something about internet marketing I am aware of your stature in the business and altruism and philanthropy. Of course you are an inspiration to all of us and my comment "keep up the good work" was meant in all sincerity as of course it would be.

Which is why I am pretty shocked by the nonsense from Daniel!

Boy, what are you fighting against?

What are you taking exception to?

When did I refute your right to your opinions?

Where we not engaging in what you described as "a fascinating and powerful discussion," and that you "appreciate [..] discourse on the subject."

Did you really read my posts so literally that you assumed I was some sort of evil genius sitting in my hollowed out volcano plotting mind control tactics on the world population so that I could sell them make money ebooks?

Daniel, it was not I that dragged the apple, Yanik Silver, into comparison with the orange of corporate marketing...was it?

Business is an infinite shade of grey. Not black and white. There's no real point in continuing a polarised argument. It achieves nothing. There always has to be communication, followed by compromise, followed by concord.

This is how I operate or I'd be unemployed and single pretty quick

In my experience, and that of history, it is usually those that are the first to squeal for their own rights that are the last to recognise those of others'.

Thomas

[drmani]

Thomas,

I didn't say that the corporate position I expressed was my own personal world view.
Merely that the reality is that this view exists and that these practices occur.

Sorry. My mistake

I'm sorry, but I do disagree that people make tens or hundreds of millions or even billions
of dollars by being squeaky clean and Mr. Nice Guy at every point along the way. It's
damn easy to paint a Mr. Nice Guy picture when you've made it.

You have a point there.

my comment "keep up the good work" was meant in all sincerity as of course it would be.

Never doubted it, and thank you. I should have prefaced my earlier post with that
(whacked myself on the head for that oversight! )

There's no real point in continuing a polarised argument. It achieves nothing.

Absolutely.

I have a favorite quote:

"A discussion is an exchange of knowledge. An argument is an exchange of ignorance."

Let's discuss - not argue

All success
Dr.Mani

P.S. - Shaun, that's what I meant - I can change my own 'world view' or 'paradigm' - even
decide to based on external input... but I cannot change YOURS, unless you want it to be
changed.

A more convoluted way of saying: "What you believe is YOUR truth!"

[ExRat]

Hi Tomw,

Thanks for your follow up comments back on page 1, they are noted and appreciated.

[Internet Stores]

I totally agree 100%!! If you're going to offer bonuses, there's no need to have people opt-in in order to get these bonuses. I am going to opt-in with a junk email, but I am not going to go for the free trial bonuses. Who knows, maybe we'll have a hard time to cancel after the trial period? I might do the same with the Net Effect. I think I am going to cancel once the first issue arrives. I have a feeling that StomperNet won't deliver the Net Effect to everyone, until the second issue is available to ship, so that we will have to pay their monthly fee for it. This is especially true if we wait until the first issue arrives to cancel our subscription. The second issue is supposedly out starting October. Doesn't leave a lot of time to cancel, if we want to cancel. Oh well, I guess we have to just wait and see what happens!

Thanks.

[Claude Pelanne]

Hello all-- As someone who is new to this whole process of Web marketing, this has been a most educational discussion. I found out about Andy Jenkins and the Stompernet "free be" offer through Ed Dale's 30 DC.

A couple days later, cross promotions came from 4 or 5 other superaffliliates pushing the free package via email. So you can say that there was a coordinated effort that gave this whole thing the feeling of a "launch". A bit like a pod of dolphins working to round up the school of fish ( call them newbies?) to better prepare for the feeding session.

What was promised was a package of videos and a free sample magazine with a monthly subscription rate of $40. So far the fulfillment on the dvds and magazine has not come through and the bonuses all involve an opt in order to retrieve them.

I'm new to the Web but not to business and marketing. The fall out is on those individuals for whom I had built up trust and confidence. The final outcome may turn out OK but I am less interested in the bonuses and more interested in getting what was originally offered.

I guess it boils down to delivering what you say you are going to deliver whether you are online or off line. If you want my recurring business there is a simple way to get it. Ask for it and tell me what I can expect in return--no surprises, no catch, no bs.

I just bought a product here on this forum and am very happy with it. It came with two bonuses that I was able to download no questions asked. Somebody has it right!

Just some thoughts.

Thanks for the privilege of participating on this thread.

Claude Pelanne

[IMChick]

My take-away from this,

1. same gurus sticking together, same junque, big old elite mastermind influencing their 'niche'
2. opt-ins vs. traditional "bonus" controversy
3. everything is 'free' now, (except for us, we can't give 'free')
4. forced continuity is not a bonus in anybody's book
5. awesome marketing lessons, both pro and con
6. Stompernet is too big now, and they are making big mistakes.

Looks to me like the field is wide open for a hostile take-over. Opportunity knocks, who will answer the door?

[Chris Lockwood]

Originally Posted by Gascon12

the bonuses all involve an opt in order to retrieve them.

I'm new to the Web but not to business and marketing.

If that second sentence is true, I have trouble believing you truly do not understand why they required opt ins.

The bonuses were from different people. Duh!

What does that have to do with buying a WSO where the bonuses and the product were all from the same seller?

Hint: if you just bought their product, there would be no reason they would want you to opt into their own list again for each bonus.

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by tomw

Dr Mani,

I didn't say that the corporate position I expressed was my own personal world view. Merely that the reality is that this view exists and that these practices occur. Yes I work as a consultant in the advertising business so I know enough about it to relay some of the practices. I hold such views about corporate marketing practices because I have worked in corporate marketing for almost twenty years.

I'm sorry, but I do disagree that people make tens or hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars by being squeaky clean and Mr. Nice Guy at every point along the way. It's damn easy to paint a Mr. Nice Guy picture when you've made it.

Just look at Michael Corleone, George Bush or Roman Abramovich

Like most people who now something about internet marketing I am aware of your stature in the business and altruism and philanthropy. Of course you are an inspiration to all of us and my comment "keep up the good work" was meant in all sincerity as of course it would be.

Which is why I am pretty shocked by the nonsense from Daniel!

Boy, what are you fighting against?

What are you taking exception to?

When did I refute your right to your opinions?

Where we not engaging in what you described as "a fascinating and powerful discussion," and that you "appreciate [..] discourse on the subject."

Did you really read my posts so literally that you assumed I was some sort of evil genius sitting in my hollowed out volcano plotting mind control tactics on the world population so that I could sell them make money ebooks?

Daniel, it was not I that dragged the apple, Yanik Silver, into comparison with the orange of corporate marketing...was it?

Business is an infinite shade of grey. Not black and white. There's no real point in continuing a polarised argument. It achieves nothing. There always has to be communication, followed by compromise, followed by concord.

This is how I operate or I'd be unemployed and single pretty quick

In my experience, and that of history, it is usually those that are the first to squeal for their own rights that are the last to recognise those of others'.

Thomas

Thomas,

I apologize if I have offended you. Obviously on an internet forum, much of the subtleties of conversation are lost so it's easy for people to get their wires crossed.

The comment of yours that I "took exception to" was this one:

"You, Daniel, "care for " and "help" your customers for precisely the same reason, and, either you won't admit it, or don't realise it."

The reason you mentioned (profit) is only one of the reasons I do what I do.

You did come across, to me, as saying, basically, that marketing is some kind of evil business where we try to "trick" people unethically, and that is kind of where I disagree. Of course we try to persuade people to take a desired course of action, but there's always an out. We are not tricksters or con-men who escape to the next city once our grift is done. And to me that's the way your post came across.

Obviously you did not mean it that way, and for misinterpreting it I apologize. However, please don't take offense, as I certainly did not mean to condemn your view in any way, and I thoroughly agree with many of your statements, particularly in your latest post.

-Dan

[Claude Pelanne]

Mr Lockwood you bring up a very good point. In a couple of cases I had already been on their lists from buying product. That's why I was surprised I had to opt in again.

That doesn't explain why product still has not appeared.

Be well.

[giveusallfreedom]

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

Hint: if you just bought their product, there would be no reason they would want you to opt into their own list again for each bonus.

You would think, but it absolutely doesn't work that way. I got three emails from different people in the last two days telling me that I absolutely had to go check out their latest report. This were big name marketers, so I figured it would be worth checking out. Every single one required me to opt in to get it.

HELLO!! I'm already on your list. Why do I need to opt in again to get your latest report?

This time I did kind of see it coming and when I got to the opt in page I was like "Cool, not worth it. Moving on." This goes back to something I learned from David Vallieres a long time ago. Much of the best information comes from little guys that are out there doing it. That's really why I love WSOs. If you're careful and pick the ones you buy carefully, you get incredible information from them.

A lot of what the Big Guys talk about isn't new. It might be advanced stuff as far as marketing goes, but you can learn a lot of it else where for a lot less. But here's the point, until you have built a sustainable business using the basics that are available for FREE here on the WF, you don't need the advanced stuff. If your business can't pay for the latest launch, then you don't need it. The small insights that you're going to get from the Big Guys, their little tweaks and power plays that are extremely valuable to an already successful business, are worthless to somebody that hasn't applied the fundamentals yet.

I'm sure somebody will pick this apart, but the fundamental idea is sound.

[Rich Muir]

Wow what a response. Love a little emotion,

Can certainly see both sides of the equation and although I did not get the package for the bonuses was going cool here looks like some cool stuff. But when the good old opt in popped up I certainly lost enthusiasm for more then half of them (the last thing I need is another guru hounding my inbox).

Question I am all for forced continuity I think it is brilliant but I am really dumbfounded by how hard these gurus want to make it to cancel.