Business did not pan out as expected. Need your honest advice

by 55 replies
Hi everybody.
I'll try to be short here.
I have a business and made some money on and offline.
I wanted to further develop my business, so I can start having some good income, reinvest, grow, etc.

I needed the extra money not only to build a better life, but also for an expensive, yet much needed, MEDICAL TREATMENT, and I knew that unless I am able to start having good income, I won't be able to get.

I realized that trying to figure out everything myself would take too much time, which I don't have. So I looked for some help AND TRAINING. and so I found someone here, on warrior forum.

He seemed honest at first. Had some great reviews. didn't have negative ones. When we talked he sounded very professional, and he talked about things that I knew for sure that were working today.

And so I decided to work with him.

He billed me in a strange way, through warrior+, but I didn't mind too much - as he sent me a disclaimer directly to my mail.

And then things got bad.

He started disappearing, telling me that he had other things to do and he don't have time to train me (EVEN THOUGH I PAID FOR IT!). I paid him to help me with a new product - and ended up doing most of the work myself. He is now ignoring most of my messages, and it takes me days to reach him and weeks to be able to talk to him.

I know that I'll never get to see the income I expected to see after working with him. Actually, I invested a huge some and haven't seen any return whatsoever.

All I want is my money back. And I am not sure how to do this, I know he'll never refund me even though I paid and didn't get service:-(

Tried contacting warrior+, they tried talking to him but it didn't help.

I don't know if Paypal will help me - and since my health depends in this money, I am depressed, just not sure what to do.

If anybody here would be willing to help me or give me some advice.....

I'd be more than grateful.

What would you do if you were in my place?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #advice #business #honest #invested #scammed
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  • Profile picture of the author eDreamer
    Hi moars,

    Unfortunately this kind of Initiation-By-Scam is common in the 'Internet Marketing' or 'Make Money Online' world.

    Sounds like you've been doing things as best you can, here's an article that goes through the refund process:

    https://warriorplus.com/support/knowledgebase.php?article=178


    If you've tried and got no response, just go through PayPal, they are known for putting their customers first and will resolve the problem and reverse the transaction. If that doesn't work, go through your credit/debit people.

    Like you said, you paid for a service you didn't get, and you have every right to your money back.

    You say you've made money online before but are looking for training to make some significant money in what seems like not a lot of time.

    Unfortunately you need lots of money to invest if you want to make lots of money fast, and if you already had lots of money I'd suggest you put that towards your medical bills.

    Making large amounts of money consistently online takes either large investments of money or large investments of work and time.

    You got suckered by a dishonest marketer, but the good thing is that it doesn't have to happen again.

    If you're looking for fast money for your medical issues, you'd be better off selling things you own, taking manual labor gigs, or trying to raise the money through donations. I think there are a few threads talking about what to do if you're desperate for cash, here's one:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...desperate.html

    If you're looking to make lots of money online, you'd be better off finding a successful business, site, product, figure, etc. online that you would like to emulate and developing a long term plan based on what they did to achieve success and working steadily to achieve your goals over time, say 1-3 years.

    Hopefully some other warriors can help you with tips on how to get the results you're looking for, but in my experience I've had the best results with a good spring cleaning and ebay/craigslist for money (relatively) fast.

    I wish you the best in everything
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I don't know why a moderator 'approved' this thread. I really don't.

    It's unclear what you paid for - how much you paid - how long you paid -and what the terms were in this "partnership". If you feel you were cheated by a WSO here - use the help desk to report it. Otherwise, this is between you and the person you hired or partnered with.

    Read the fine print - the refund guarantee (if there was one) and the disclaimers...that YOU agreed to. Either you have a legal leg to stand on to get money back - or you don't. Did he provide too little - did you expect too much? No idea but there are always two sides to the story.

    I don't know if Paypal will help me
    Sorry you are ill but that has nothing to with a business transaction - or with paypal. You won't know what paypal might do...if you don't ask or file a dispute and find out.
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Unfortunately this kind of Initiation-By-Scam is common in the 'Internet Marketing' or 'Make Money Online' world.
    You are assuming this was a scam based on one side of a story.

    You got suckered by a dishonest marketer
    No proof required?

    Like I said - this thread should not have been approved - from the WF rules:

    If you have a problem with anyone, take it up with them privately. No naming or shaming here since there are two sides to every story.
    • Profile picture of the author lover and fighter
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      You are assuming this was a scam based on one side of a story.



      No proof required?

      Like I said - this thread should not have been approved - from the WF rules:

      LOL You're more worried about the victim breaking forum rules than the scammers who prey on them??

      Relax, they didn't name names so no wrong has been done. Aren't people allowed to share their experiences here? Jeez, this is ridiculous.

      And let's be honest-- there are a LOT of unscrupulous people out there (and in here) just trying to get over on the next unsuspecting visitor, taking advantage of their hopes and dreams. It should be the purpose of this forum to help them avoid these kind of situations.

      If more people stood up against the scammers liars and cheaters as much as they stood up against innocent people in a forum just trying to figure things out, this place would be so much better.
    • Profile picture of the author pauloadaoag
      Administrator
      lover and fighter got it right. He is not naming people and personally he is asking THE COMMUNITY for advice and options.

      The IM community needs to step up and admit that there are lots of scammers and unscrupulous people preying on newbies. This is a problem for EVERYONE, not just the prey as it gives the entire industry a shitty reputation.
  • Profile picture of the author cjsparacino123
    Okay, so now that negative nancy bled everywhere and got it out her system, let's resolve the issue!

    What you got was an education, write off the sum as tuition to your empire.

    I am sorry about your health condition, although look into reiki healing, get a book on it, and study and practice on yourself, it will help tremendously, may even cure that physical ailment.

    Fail forward!
    • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
      Originally Posted by cjsparacino123 View Post

      Okay, so now that negative nancy bled everywhere and got it out her system, let's resolve the issue!

      What you got was an education, write off the sum as tuition to your empire.

      I am sorry about your health condition, although look into reiki healing, get a book on it, and study and practice on yourself, it will help tremendously, may even cure that physical ailment.

      Fail forward!
      That was both rude and stupid. "Negative Nancy" was 100% right.

      You then offer nothing of importance or relevance...
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Gee - medical advice, too....is this a great place or what?

    You fit in this thread better than I do - and that's not a compliment.
  • Profile picture of the author Maximillion_Z
    Maors, can you tell us more about the offer you paid for?

    How much did you pay?

    What was the promise?

    He/she may have decided that they lived up to their end of the bargain, we won't know unless you tell us more. Right now we only have one side of the story.

    I don't see why Warrior Plus is a strange way of paying? It's probably the #1 trusted way of paying on this forum.
  • Profile picture of the author mickyl
    Guys, I would show some empathy for someone with such a problem....
    There are people here that are just trying to get other peoples' money without giving any value back... If we ignore this problem, it will eventually hurt us all.
    I would say - go to Paypal and try to ask them for help. Maybe try some crowd funding to get the money you need for your medical situation? or ask friends/family for a loan? If you know how to make money, you'd be able to do it in the future, even if you lost now, but your health comes first! you should be concentrating on that at the moment.

    And guys, I have a question of my own - say that you found out that one of the sellers here is scamming other people. What would you do? Is there any way/ anyone to report this so this person will be banned and doesn't hurt others?

    In my opinion, this is a major problem that this community needs to take care of.
    • Profile picture of the author eDreamer
      Originally Posted by mickyl View Post

      And guys, I have a question of my own - say that you found out that one of the sellers here is scamming other people. What would you do? Is there any way/ anyone to report this so this person will be banned and doesn't hurt others???

      If you feel that this person cheated you then you can take it up with that person directly and also with warriorplus through this link:

      https://warriorplus.com/support/know...hp?article=178

      If you don't get a response from the product creator or service provider, then I'd suggest going through your credit/debit people if a refund is what you're after.

      But as far as shutting down someone's entire offer, business, operation, what have you, then you're taking it to another level. Not sure there's much you can do without a lot of proof and a long uphill battle.

      And even if you do shut this guy down, there's plenty more where that came from. Sometimes it's just not worth the energy. If you want to report him, follow your gut, report him to warrior forum through the help desk or personally message a moderator or administrator, and keep it moving.

      It's impossible to eliminate all risk, so it's important to be 'street smart' and do your due diligence when it comes to situations like these, so you can spot a fake from a mile away.

      Unfortunately it's common to have to just eat situations like these and take them as learning lessons. Learn so you can help others avoid them too. That's probably a better direction for your energy.

      But it's good for people to know that it is common (thanks to the abuse of copywriting, embellishing, insinuating, manipulative or deceptive tactics, and even outright lies), it's something you need to look out for, and if it happens to you don't let it stop you from
      progressing.

      You might get tripped up from time to time or stumble and fall, but just keep getting up and moving forward along your journey. Let it inspire you in some way and use it to your advantage as a tool to get ahead.
  • Profile picture of the author neha9
    I think you have to attention on the things happend to you. first of all complete knowledge is must . here we all give you solution of your problem not for other things
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    What would you do?
    I would (and have) reported them to the help desk. Admins look into it and if the person is scamming, the WSO is deleted. That happened to one person just a couple weeks ago.

    Here is the problem in this thread: Lack of specific information of any kind.

    No timeline - no amt spent - no mention of guarantee or what was in the disclaimer he received. We don't know if this happened last week or last year...whether it was a purchase through this forum or from a person who happened to be a member here. We don't know if it was a product or coaching or a Joint Venture...or what.

    Sadly, it is not uncommon for someone to expect more than the seller was offering. We don't know if that is the case. It's also not unheard of that someone facing a financial crisis for health or other reasons....wants to get back money he spent in the past. I had a man ask for a refund 10 months after a $27 purchase....why? Because he "needed the money for Christmas". Yes, I refunded him... and blocked him from buying from me again.

    I've had people pay a membership fee for 5-6 months and then ask for a full refund because they 'need the money'. No, they didn't get it back.

    It says something that the OP filed a complaint with Warrior+ and they checked on it and took no action. It says something that he has not filed a dispute with Paypal....maybe over the time limit?

    What I want is for people to look at such threads in a logical, rational way. Instead, many seem to buy into the "you were scammed".

    One thing is clear- the OP posted this and logged off 4 hrs later without posting any answers to questions/concerns - and hasn't logged back in since then.

    this is a major problem
    What do you want the forum to do - based on the info provided by the OP???? Why do you assume there is a 'major problem'?
    • Profile picture of the author mickyl
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      I would (and have) reported them to the help desk. Admins look into it and if the person is scamming, the WSO is deleted. That happened to one person just a couple weeks ago.

      Here is the problem in this thread: Lack of specific information of any kind.

      No timeline - no amt spent - no mention of guarantee or what was in the disclaimer he received. We don't know if this happened last week or last year...whether it was a purchase through this forum or from a person who happened to be a member here. We don't know if it was a product or coaching or a Joint Venture...or what.

      Sadly, it is not uncommon for someone to expect more than the seller was offering. We don't know if that is the case. It's also not unheard of that someone facing a financial crisis for health or other reasons....wants to get back money he spent in the past. I had a man ask for a refund 10 months after a $27 purchase....why? Because he "needed the money for Christmas". Yes, I refunded him... and blocked him from buying from me again.

      I've had people pay a membership fee for 5-6 months and then ask for a full refund because they 'need the money'. No, they didn't get it back.

      It says something that the OP filed a complaint with Warrior+ and they checked on it and took no action. It says something that he has not filed a dispute with Paypal....maybe over the time limit?

      What I want is for people to look at such threads in a logical, rational way. Instead, many seem to buy into the "you were scammed".

      One thing is clear- the OP posted this and logged off 4 hrs later without posting any answers to questions/concerns - and hasn't logged back in since then.



      What do you want the forum to do - based on the info provided by the OP???? Why do you assume there is a 'major problem'?
      Hi, you seem to be very angry about this whole subject.. I personally know more than one person who got hurt quite badly here, and also I must say that reputation of the whole WSO can suffer from these kind of things. Many big platforms, including Ebay, are working against frauds, and if there is no system to do it, then yes, it's a big problem in my opinion.
    • Profile picture of the author pauloadaoag
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Sadly, it is not uncommon for someone to expect more than the seller was offering. We don't know if that is the case. It's also not unheard of that someone facing a financial crisis for health or other reasons....wants to get back money he spent in the past. I had a man ask for a refund 10 months after a $27 purchase....why? Because he "needed the money for Christmas". Yes, I refunded him... and blocked him from buying from me again.
      The user did say that
      He started disappearing, telling me that he had other things to do and he don't have time to train me (EVEN THOUGH I PAID FOR IT!). I paid him to help me with a new product - and ended up doing most of the work myself. He is now ignoring most of my messages, and it takes me days to reach him and weeks to be able to talk to him.
      so it doesnt sound like a disappointed buyer, it sounds like he paid a seller that did not even deliver.

      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      What do you want the forum to do - based on the info provided by the OP???? Why do you assume there is a 'major problem'?
      Making changes to the WSO section to make it a better marketplace is something that we want to tackle. While we have ideas of our own, we are also on the look out for ideas from the community on how we can improve the quality of the marketplace.
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    You are generalizing. I didn't say there are no scams here - I'm addressing ONLY the OP's claims....but believe what you want. As usual here - people are more willing to accuse than to question.

    I don't think there is enough info given here to assume 'scam' or to start a crusade against it - but do what you will.
    • Profile picture of the author mickyl
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      You are generalizing. I didn't say there are no scams here - I'm addressing ONLY the OP's claims....but believe what you want. As usual here - people are more willing to accuse than to question.

      I don't think there is enough info given here to assume 'scam' or to start a crusade against it - but do what you will.
      Well, I did asked generally - what to do if something like that happens to one of my friends or students here and how to GENERALLY protect the community against these kind of things. I actually got a good answer up here... I don't care if this complain is right or not - if someone asked, and the question may help others, why not answer?
      We all here have reputation to maintain, and yes, everybody who sells online encounter a fraudulent customer from time to time, I also think that this kind of fraud is just as bad. That doesn't mean that we, as more experienced marketers, can't help the community to get better.
  • Profile picture of the author cjsparacino123
    scams are bad for business ey @Kay King
  • Profile picture of the author Connann
    you have been SCAMMED

    Everyone here has been scammed. it's said, but it's the truth.

    So.

    1 Fill a dispute with Paypal IMMEDIATELY.

    2 Contact IMMEDIATELY your card bank and try a chargeback.


    Saying this...ask yourself: WHY i've been scammed? (so you wont be scammed again)

    Scammers, like in Hustle Tv Series is said,
    are looking for people who

    "Want all for nothing"

    And they give back "Nothing for something".

    I mean, you probably bought a product who claim you'll be rich with no much work, only buyin the product and follow the steps.

    Thats "All for Nothing"

    And the vendor scammer, ask you something for that all. You probably thought "something i have to pay, but if i gain that huge amount of money..."

    ..and you've been scammed.


    The fact is, that you have to RISK THE MONEY YOU DONT NEED TO.

    Not the money for bills.
    Or food
    ....or WORSE: the Medical Treatment!

    It's the first princple of an investor: dont put on the table the money you really need.

    You can loose them, take in count, even the system is good.

    Saying that: the SYSTEM IS ONLY ONE.

    Building a List around a niche solving a problem of the niche.

    And sell products to that list while givin informational value.

    So it's better spending your money on traffic generation sources.
    At least, if u loose them, or not convert too much, you learn something by try and fail.
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    The user did say that
    Would you PM this member, get the name of the member he purchased from....and ban that seller here...based on the comment in this thread?

    Would an Administrator feel obligated to investigate and get to the truth of the matter to protect other members from being scammed?

    At least you have validated this sort of thread is now permitted here. I won't question future complaint threads...or respond to them.
    • Profile picture of the author pauloadaoag
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Would you PM this member, get the name of the member he purchased from....and ban that seller here...based on the comment in this thread?

      Would an Administrator feel obligated to investigate and get to the truth of the matter to protect other members from being scammed?

      At least you have validated this sort of thread is now permitted here. I won't question future complaint threads...or respond to them.
      We do occasionally investigate reports of scammy/stolen products with the necessary actions taken. But yeah admittedly this is a forum and not a court and there are two sides to every story. Additionally, this is not a scalable approach. What we want is for both sides to engage in dialog. If we keep glowing reviews of a product for potential buyers to read, valid buyers who have valid concerns should also be allowed to air their thoughts out for sellers to respond to visibly and for other potential buyers to take into consideration.
  • Profile picture of the author tranhung1305pbc
    [DELETED]
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    valid buyers who have valid concerns should also be allowed to air their thoughts out for sellers to respond to visibly and for other potential buyers to take into consideration.
    I TOTALLY agree with that - and negative reviews have not only been permitted but encouraged in WSO threads. The only codicil is the review must be posted by a purchaser - and be about the product rather than an attack on the seller. In other words - state your concerns or complaint about the product or the seller where the seller can respond.

    The OP has been back to the forum - but has not contributed anything further in the thread he started. This thread is damaging as it leads some to fear being scammed here and they will pass that warning on - based on a complaint that may or may not be 'valid'.
    • Profile picture of the author pauloadaoag
      Administrator
      Nice to see we are on the same page. And admittedly, if the user posted the name of the seller or product, I would have closed this thread and told the user to post it in the WSO's own thread.

      Now I wanna ask the community, since we are on the subject already - what changes do you want to see in the WSO section to help prevent these things from happening?
    • Profile picture of the author eDreamer
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      ...negative reviews have not only been permitted but encouraged in WSO threads. The only codicil is the review must be posted by a purchaser - and be about the product rather than an attack on the seller. In other words - state your concerns or complaint about the product or the seller where the seller can respond.

      ...This thread is damaging as it leads some to fear being scammed here and they will pass that warning on - based on a complaint that may or may not be 'valid'.
      I think threads like these are absolutely necessary in this world, because like dangers of real life, the danger of being taken advantage of online is very real and is something that needs to be addressed since it is such a big part of this culture.

      Not to raise fear, just to raise awareness and savvy on the part of those who want or need it.

      And while honest reviews may have always been permitted or encouraged in the WSO section, there are many sellers who have very misleading reviews because of the connections they hold. Plus some people feel as though they can't be honest in a way that sheds negative light on someone else's product, especially if they feel they will be unjustly penalized for it or attacked over it in some way.

      I think putting restrictions on the money claims did a lot as far as controlling shady business in the WSO section, I know it really shook things up around here but I think it showed a genuine desire to improve the forum. But I don't think it's realistic to be able to get rid of every marketer who has less than noble intentions.

      The best thing to combat something like this is being able to openly talk about it, make it known, share stories, and try to help each other when possible. Denying it or sweeping it under the rug doesn't help anyone.

      By abiding by the forum rules and not naming or shaming anyone specific, we can talk about problems and experiences like scammers, and by talking about it we won't make it worse but could make it better.

      We're not aiming to increase fear, just to increase wisdom.
  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    what changes do you want to see in the WSO section to help prevent these things from happening?
    Unfortunately, the Internet is not the birthplace of scammers or suckers. They have both been around for a very long time. With such a concentration of potential victims, it's only logical the Warrior Forum would have a healthy crop of scammers.

    You can't be a babysitter to every wide-eyed wannabe who's not smart enough to read things through, think things through and make intelligent decisions.

    Caveat Emptor - the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.

    I've been doing this nine years and have never been "scammed" past the point of buying an ebook that didn't deliver.

    I read the fine print. I use PayPal or I don't buy. Quite simply, I protect myself online and everyone else has the same responsibility.

    Brent
    • Profile picture of the author pauloadaoag
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      Unfortunately, the Internet is not the birthplace of scammers or suckers. They have both been around for a very long time. With such a concentration of potential victims, it's only logical the Warrior Forum would have a healthy crop of scammers.

      You can't be a babysitter to every wide-eyed wannabe who's not smart enough to read things through, think things through and make intelligent decisions.

      Caveat Emptor - the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.

      I've been doing this nine years and have never been "scammed" past the point of buying an ebook that didn't deliver.

      I read the fine print. I use PayPal or I don't buy. Quite simply, I protect myself online and everyone else has the same responsibility.

      Brent
      Any ideas how we can make the due diligence you are talking about easier?
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    You should not try to make it "easier" - the forum should make it "clear" that members are responsible for their own decisions.

    As for WSO's - this poster never mentioned "WSO". However, that section is still posting guarantees (spotted one today that guarantees $150 a day - just not in the title).

    The WSO threads are filled with useless comments of those asking for reviews copies in thread after thread (against the rules but not enforced) - with those asking for discounts and the most recent "comment style" - "sounds good I would buy but no money". Those posts were deleted in minutes in the past - but not now.

    Moderating the WSO forum is work - I know that. But it's critical to the success of that section and the reputation of the forum.

    How about cliff notes of the WSO rules (For buyers and sellers) - clearly visible in that section....AND a "disclaimer" also clearly visible that outlines a buyer's responsibility and what protection there is - if any. TELL buyers to use due diligence to evaluate both offer and seller and that a 'refund guarantee' cannot be assumed if it's not clearly mentioned.
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    [DELETED]
  • Profile picture of the author Jason Stovall
    Ouch!

    eDreamer is correct, go to PayPal their very good in responding to refunds. The IM world is full of "snake oil" that's what I have found out over the years since I have been skating around this industry.
  • Profile picture of the author Heather Leigh 93
    I'm sorry to hear this happened to you, it sucks but there are some people out there that are just after your money and not interested in providing actual value to customers. File a dispute through paypal they should be able to get you your money back.

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