Offline Marketers Look Here! - This Can Help You Make Loads More, With Less Effort!

[Preben Frenning]

Yup, you read the title right.

I'm getting my feet wet with offline marketing, and I have just realized one extremely important factor that determines how much you make in your offline marketing consultant efforts.

Now, this is nothing new, and I got to think of it thanks to a great email from Shaun O'Rielly. (Get offline clients list)

I'll use myself as an example in this case, as it's extremely relevant for me now, and it have increased my profit potential by a whole lot.

Here it is:
The amount of money you can make, is determined by your niche, and their spending power.

As for myself, my niche was creating websites and marketing them for small to medium-sized offline businesses. I would then create the website itself if they didn't have one, and then market it online for them for a decent sum.

So far, doing that have made me under $1000, and it's has been LOADS of work, as I'm not a webdesigner or anything. I've had several meetings, bugs on the website etc etc. - And people only ask me to do webdesign for them, based on referrals. Not marketing, which is what I want to sell. I have just been forced to take the jobs to make some money.

But recently, I have discovered 2 key factors, that depends on how much I work compared to how much I earn.

1. I don't need to do it myself. I'll network a bit, get a few good partners, and have them do it. Then I can focus on my main skills, while still making money and getting referrals. - WAY less work for me, and when I'm able to do what I'm best at, I can charge more, and get better results.
2. The niche decides my salary.

Last week, I was going to a meeting regarding my online marketing services.
It ended up with getting the task to create an automated online/offline hybrid order system, with a budget of $8k. (He also told me he had previously offered $25k for the same system, gotten rejected, and drawn back his bid. It was a little too expensive after all)

I talked to a friend in the business, and he could do it for that price.($8k) And he suggested I charged $11k total. That leaves me with $3k pure profits, and all I have to do is being in charge of the project, giving updates to my client etc.

So where am I going with this? - Well, For less than half of the work I had to do for $1k, I will make $3k now, doing more fun work, making a client really happy, and building a better relationship with the guy doing it.

Win,win,win. So what task will I choose to do next? - Probably something similar. Maybe even selling the same system to other business owners in the same niche, for the same price, as long as they are not competitors. Next time, it will be much more profits to me, as I already have the system. Not only that, but I will help the same client with marketing online.

I hope this was inspirational, and that it might make you reconsider your niche if it's a low-paying one. - Getting into a higher paying niche is not necessarily harder, but still pays much better.

Good luck with picking a niche!
- Preben

P.S. I haven't sealed the deal yet, but I will do so very soon, and regardless if I make it or not, it has still opened my eyes for new, much more profitable jobs to do.

[TimCastleman]

Preben -

I hate to burst your bubble but this has been covered in great detail before. I mention it in every one of my offline products and mentoring sessions. Go after the big fish, let the dogs have the scraps.

Welcome to offline marketing btw

[Preben Frenning]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Preben -

I hate to burst your bubble but this has been covered in great detail before. I mention it in every one of my offline products and mentoring sessions. Go after the big fish, let the dogs have the scraps.

Welcome to offline marketing btw

Sure thing. It's nothing new. I would think most seasoned offline marketers know this.
I haven't tried your courses, and I'm sure there are plenty others who haven't, so I thought it might be useful to some.

But my point was really that you don't need to do the work yourself, as long as you have some decent knowledge in the field. Hence making you able to take many kinds of jobs, work very little, and still be able to satisfy your customers and make a neat profit.

I'm pretty sure I have read many places before, that picking a high-paying offline niche is essential to make good money, but it didn't sink in enough for me to implement it until now.

It's a real-life example of a newbie realizing it, so others who haven't realized it yet might do so

Anyways, thanks for welcoming me to offline marketing

- Preben

[MichaelHiles]

Here's the problem with a lot of people getting into the offline niche.

They don't build a cash reserve for their business in the event a partner bails out on them.

Technical people, while good intentioned, are notoriously poor at estimating projects and even worse at time management.

If you get hung out to try as the face man on a deal that goes bad over failed deliverables, you have to be able to secure alternate technical resources and deliver. This takes time and money.

Be sure to set aside a portion of every deal to have cash operating reserves for your business.

Offline isn't new. Some people had been delivering web and marketing solutions for years before even Google came along.

[TimCastleman]

Preben -

I totally understand. I can't tell you how many times I have heard the same thing and then one day it clicks.

Glad it sunk in. Best of luck.

Tim

[L.James]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Preben -

I hate to burst your bubble but this has been covered in great detail before. I mention it in every one of my offline products and mentoring sessions. Go after the big fish, let the dogs have the scraps.

Welcome to offline marketing btw

Don't burst his bubble. Your Offline products aren't all that great. Good but not great. In my opinion you focus more on getting people in your mentoring program. Just my opinion, I'm entitled to one.

[TimCastleman]

James -

Thanks for your comments. Never said my products are great, they just make money for people who use them and that is all i care about.

And I wasn't trying to burst his bubble. He understands, as you do I am sure, that there is nothing new under the sun.

Thanks again.

Tim

[LifestyleTrans]

Hey Preben, I appreciate your enthusiasm and willingness to share! Congrats on your discovery. I run an offline business as well and also came to this realization. I think it's an important topic for everyone.

[Preben Frenning]

Originally Posted by LifestyleTrans

Hey Preben, I appreciate your enthusiasm and willingness to share! Congrats on your discovery. I run an offline business as well and also came to this realization. I think it's an important topic for everyone.

Thanks

Thing here is, it's nothing new, and has probably been said many times. BUT how many times have you read somewhere that the most important thing is "to take action". Well, the reason people say it so often, is because it's the single most important thing you need to do to ever make a cent, or even think about it.

This is similar, except it's not said quite as often.

I didn't get any bubble bursted , I just "got it", and wanted to share how and why.

And another thing... Even though it's been said a lot, many people won't put it into action, or get it inside their head before it's presented to them the right way.

Personally, I find it easier to learn new things, and implement them, if I read case studies, or get a few examples.

If someone told me "Choose a niche with more money in it, because it gives you higher income potential", I would have understood it, but perhaps not realized I actually had to do it.

Anyways, enough about "why" I wanted to share this.

@MichaelHiles - Yeah, that's a good point. I'm going to write a detailed contract with both parts, and everything will go through me.

We'll spend quite some time on planning, and get estimates with a decent+ accuracy.

And yes, offline isn't new. Which leaves me with people to learn from ,rather than finding out everything myself

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

James -

Thanks for your comments. Never said my products are great, they just make money and that is all i care about.

And I wasn't trying to burst his bubble. He understands, as you do I am sure, that there is nothing new under the sun.

Thanks again.

Tim

Hey Tim, I realize you're responding to James in a bit of defensiveness, but to openly declare that you realize your products aren't great and that the money is all you care about isn't exactly the consultative sort of focus that I would expect from someone engaging in the activity of coaching others in how to become successful through providing marketing solutions to their own clients.

In fact, exceeding customer expectations with phenomenal quality, and being a value-add long before you get to the money side is really what creates lasting success.

But here, you're essentially saying that you realize you could do a better job, but who cares because as long as you can sell what you've got, you're not interested in anything else. Am I interpreting this the wrong way?

In my opinion, you've adopted a bit of a gunslinger attitude about the only offline guy speaking at the WF event (meaning, the only offline guy that volunteered to do it), engaged in a direct attack on Maria Guidelis with your sig line about selling the book about postcards she doesn't want you to read, and now your admission that you know your products aren't all that great but you don't care because all you're interested in is getting people's money... well, you might be leaving yourself open to criticisms.

Just a friendly observation. All the best and success.

[TimCastleman]

Preben (how do you pronounce your name by the way) -

I think you are well on your way to success with what you understand.


It is frustrating to see people who spend their hard earned money on something and then do nothing with it. Hell people opt out of a friend of mine's membership site and he checks their progress and most of them have gone through less than 5% of the matierals (he can track downloads, videos, etc).

I am guilty of that as well. I spent $1500 on a course that sat on a shelf (after I paid for overnight shipping btw) but once I took action it made me almost instant money.

If you spent an hour a day (hell start with just 15 minutes) in action mode you'd be better off than 99% of the people out there.

Quick story. About a month ago I decided that in honor of my upcoming birthday I wanted to be 180 pounds. I was about 196 when I started. Fast forward a month and now I am 8 pounds away from my goal. What changed?

I took action. I hired a trainer, I eat much better now and focus on it daily (weigh ins, food diary, etc).

That really is the key to success - have a goal, focus all your energy on it, track the results, and adjust as needed.

Also Preben - my first post was pretty short and rude to be honest (no more posting before coffee). Shoot me a PM with your email address and I'll send you my entire offline marketing course free of charge as a way of saying I'm sorry.

Tim

[TimCastleman]

I realize you're responding to James in a bit of defensiveness, but to openly declare that you realize your products aren't great and that making money is all you care about isn't exactly the consultative sort of focus that I would expect from someone engaging in the activity of coaching others in how to become successful through providing marketing solutions to their own clients.

Michael -

First read my last post. Second, he thinks my products aren't great. I love them - I know they work and they make money for people who use them. I can't change his opinion and I don't plan on trying. Plus if I say he is wrong then it gets even worse. I've got a hard drive full of testimonials and thank you from clients. But again I look like the ass to say that.


He doesn't like my product, ok on to the next one. I only want to preach to the converted. Also, I doubt (and if I am wrong let me know) that he tried anything out before he posted his review.

He doesn't like that I ask people to contact me if there interested in consulting - ok. But did he try anything that I lay out step by step in reports? Doubt it.

At any rate Michael one of the biggest breakthroughs for me this year was this - stop caring what other people think about you. Once you stop seaking acceptence from others it is pretty freeing to be honest.

Once I did that I doubled my offline income. And I bet my offline speech is going to piss some people off - and I'm not worried about that either.

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Michael -

First read my last post. Second, he thinks my products aren't great. I love them - I know they work and they make money. I can't change his opinion and I don't plan on itrying. Plus if I say he is wrong then it gets even worse. I've got a hard drive full of testimonials and thank you from clients. Trust me - I've seen a few other offline WSO's and one of them actually made my physically sick from the suck factor. But again I look like the ass to say that.

But I gain nothing by tooting my own horn and putting other products down.

He doesn't like my product, ok on to the next one. I only want to preach to the converted. Also, I doubt (and if I am wrong let me know) that he tried anything out before he posted his review.

He doesn't like that I ask people to contact me if there interested in consulting - ok. But did he try anything that I lay out step by step in reports? Doubt it.

At any rate Michael one of the biggest breakthroughs for me this year was this - stop caring what other people think about you. Once you stop seaking acceptence from others it is pretty freeing to be honest.

Once I did that I doubled my offline income. And I bet my offline speech is going to piss some people off - and I'm not worried about that either.

I certainly agree with you that you should focus on your own success and not care what others think. I think it's great that you've achieved this place in your own psyche, but like a fresh convert to a religion, be careful to not lose balance with overwhelming zeal.

Not seeking acceptance from others is fine, but when it starts to tarnish your brand (not from the things that James was saying - but your own statements), be careful not to confuse the two.

I agree that there's a lot of crap in the WSO forum. That's all I have to say about that.

I wish you great success and hope you get the response you're wanting with your presentation at the WF event. I am expecting my second baby, so travel at this point is very limited. I'd love to meet up though.

EDIT.. my wife is expecting... not me... that would be a WSO of magnitude...

[TimCastleman]

Mike -

First thanks for the title gunslinger, I had to make that my subhead. Second I think they are recording everything so I'll get you a copy of the presenation.

Third, I understand all to well about the newly converted. Rest assure that I won't be saving souls at the event and a lot of people will disagree with my positioning which is fine.

Best of luck with the little one. My wife and I have talked about having kids but until I can keep them outside all day like my dogs it won't happen (it's a joke - I am just kidding, keep the hate mail).

See ya

[Preben Frenning]

LOL!!! And seriously lol. I must say this thread took a funny turn...
Love your new title btw! Been to dinner, read it, and saw you had changed it

Hmmm... I want to respond to everything here, but I have to go soon. Anyways...
@Tim - To me it seems like your attitude in business is the "Authority" kind of style, which doesn't necessarily need to be that bad in the long term. (Unless you overdo it and your customers find you scary)

Being careless can make life easier in many situations. Even with girls. They ALWAYS want you when you don't want them! Right? They're "a bit" interested first, same with you, but when you're not interested any more, they couldn't have been more interested!
It's not 100%, but it happens pretty often.
I would think it's the same for business, as it's a principle that people always want what they cannot get. (At least usually)

@MichaelHiles - You say it's impressive Tim have achieved that much success with that kind of attitude.
I think we interpret it differently, as I read it in a way where he says he doesn't care what others think. That can be other people he's not doing business with, and what they think about him.

You don't need to be mean to not care what others think about you, right?
So @Tim, people might think you are "mean" or "bad" if you say you don't care about others, but I too don't care that much about what people think about me. But I still care about other people, and love to help them.

And yeah, I think your first reply was a bit rude too, but no worries, it improved after the coffee I'd love a free copy of your course too, so I'll shoot you a PM.

I agree with you that taking action is first, doing it right is second. As long as you are in a "doing mode", you can improve on your way.

@MichaelHiles - "In fact, exceeding customer expectations with phenomenal quality, and being a value-add long before you get to the money side is really what creates lasting success."

Very, very true. Then you are building a "business". Giving great value first, makes things easier, and builds the foundation of a good relationship.
And if you really over-deliver, your customer is bound to give you some awesome referrals.

On the other hand, if they're not satisfied, they will tell even more people,(8 on average I've heard, and those will tell 3 etc.) and you risk to lose many potential customers.

But here, you're essentially saying that you realize you could do a better job, but who cares because as long as you can sell what you've got, you're not interested in anything else. Am I interpreting this the wrong way?

Yes. He doesn't care if his products are great, as long as they make money - For the ones who buy them.

Pretty long post, but quite a lot to talk about...

*Note!
I'm not trying to take sides here
From my point of view, you just have different ways of doing business. (And communicating)
In my opinion, both of you have many great points! I can see that both of you have loads of experience, and it's great for me to learn it here.

Thanks a lot for contributing to this thread guys
I still hope offline newbies will benefit from the OP too!
And while I'm at it, thanks to Shaun O'Rielly for everything he has taught and is teaching me about offline marketing. After all, his email triggered my view on this, and he's been a great teacher for my offline efforts. (Yes, unlike many IM'ers he actually replies to list emails, and it's never just a "yes","no" or "ok", it's often half a page with answers to questions!)

- Preben

[L.James]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Michael -

First read my last post. Second, he thinks my products aren't great. I love them - I know they work and they make money for people who use them. I can't change his opinion and I don't plan on trying. Plus if I say he is wrong then it gets even worse. I've got a hard drive full of testimonials and thank you from clients. But again I look like the ass to say that.


He doesn't like my product, ok on to the next one. I only want to preach to the converted. Also, I doubt (and if I am wrong let me know) that he tried anything out before he posted his review.

He doesn't like that I ask people to contact me if there interested in consulting - ok. But did he try anything that I lay out step by step in reports? Doubt it.

At any rate Michael one of the biggest breakthroughs for me this year was this - stop caring what other people think about you. Once you stop seaking acceptence from others it is pretty freeing to be honest.

Once I did that I doubled my offline income. And I bet my offline speech is going to piss some people off - and I'm not worried about that either.

Just letting you know, I have tried your products. I haven't made any money from your methods. Maybe I'm just one who hasn't out of the many successful testimonials you have. With my experience with your products is that you tend to over complicate something and make some assumptions which are not true. The end result is that it becomes very difficult for the average person to implement your recommendations. You have good ideas but that's all they are, ideas. If you don't have an easy way to implement the sales of your services then it doesn't matter what else you have. If you don't have a way to approach a small business owner and immediately capture their attention then you're never going to make a sale. You'll just end up frustrated.

P.S - Not trying to bash or be negative, just stating my personal experiences.

[TimCastleman]

With my experience with your products is that you tend to over complicate something and make some assumptions which are not true. The end result is that it becomes very difficult for the average person to implement your recommendations.

Are you sure your talking about my product?

Mailing a postcard
Having people call a recorded message
mailing a package to the address they leave
Follow up as needed

If that's complicated then I'm sorry cause I can't simplify it. Hell I have people that can't even speak english and don't live in the US doing this for me and they seem to grasp it.

I mean it does seem much harder that booking a conference room, contacting hundreds of business owners via phone,direct mail, stopping by, getting them to show up to an event, prepare a slide show and a presentation and fill the air for 45 minutes, make sure the mtg goes well, follow up with everyone, and do it all over again ... or maybe not?

LJ - I am sorry you didn't have good results. I don't promise perfection but I do think you can be successful if you can follow the simple steps. I have no idea about your particular situation and since this is the first I've heard of this then I couldn't help you along the way.

I do have a consulting program ... oh wait, nevermind ;-)

Seriously LJ - I'd love to hear more and help you out, just like I do with everyone who buys my products. Feel free to email me.

[L.James]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Are you sure your talking about my product?

Mailing a postcard
Having people call a recorded message
mailing a package to the address they leave
Follow up as needed

If that's complicated then I'm sorry cause I can't simplify it. Hell I have people that can't even speak english and don't live in the US doing this for me and they seem to grasp it.

I mean it does seem much harder that booking a conference room, contacting hundreds of business owners via phone,direct mail, stopping by, getting them to show up to an event, prepare a slide show and a presentation and fill the air for 45 minutes, make sure the mtg goes well, follow up with everyone, and do it all over again ... or maybe not?

LJ - I am sorry you didn't have good results. I don't promise perfection but I do think you can be successful if you can follow the simple steps. I have no idea about your particular situation and since this is the first I've heard of this then I couldn't help you along the way.

I do have a consulting program ... oh wait, nevermind ;-)

Seriously LJ - I'd love to hear more and help you out, just like I do with everyone who buys my products. Feel free to email me.

What exactly is it that you are offering? How much are you charging for your services? What does it take to get everything setup? Its a few more details that needs to be covered especially if a newbie was to buy your courses. I will email you soon.