Should Users Create Polls On The Warrior Forum About How The Warrior Forum Is Run?

[kennethtang]

Just as the title says...
Should Users Create Polls On The Warrior Forum About How The Warrior Forum Is Run?

[Steven Wagenheim]

I think Allen Says has been doing this long enough to know how to run
his own forum.

[MichaelHiles]

Last time I checked, WF was not a democracy.

[Fernando Veloso]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Last time I checked, WF was not a democracy.

Dude, where's my democracy?

Seriously, I love it how it's managed. Short and sweet.

[Mike Anthony]

No and since this is a poll telling Allen how to run his forum it should vanish.

[JohnMcCabe]

Sure, with two caveats...

1. Allen is okay with it.

2. People who post, or vote in, the poll shouldn't expect anything to change simply because of the results of a poll.

[Raydal]

The answer has already been given. The poll in question has
been deleted making this one unnecessary.

-Ray Edwards

[Kay King]

So we have a poll about polls that shouldn't have been run in the first place - and I am exercising my right not to vote....in any of them including this one

Back to work, people!

[Bev Clement]

Kenneth, why is it people always want to have a forum run the way they want it run, but try and tell them how to run their business, website, finance etc and they will tell you in no certain terms to take a long walk off a short pier.

If people think they can do a better job, then they can put their money where their mouths are and try and replicate the WF, and we can watch them fail.

Can we tell all these people how terrible their business plan is, how awful their websites are, how lacking their customer service is, and they take it lying down, and don't argue but implement every single idea? No! Then they have not hope in taking over the running of the WF.

[Jill Carpenter]

Originally Posted by kennethtang

Just as the title says...
Should Users Create Polls On The Warrior Forum About How The Warrior Forum Is Run?

This is OT, but need to tell you kennethtang you are the ONLY moderator I ever see listed on the bottom of the forum.

Does Allen have you tied up in a basement somewhere? Would you like me to bring you a snack and a hack saw?

Thank you for all your work.

[DavidO]

Hah! I posted a similar question way back when and, wow, was I ever told the facts of life!

Now I agree completely. This ain't no place for a committee!

[KimW]

Ok, I'm confused. This ISN'T OT,and what do you mean only Mod you see listed? I am sooooooo confused.

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

This is OT, but need to tell you kennethtang you are the ONLY moderator I ever see listed on the bottom of the forum.

Does Allen have you tied up in a basement somewhere? Would you like me to bring you a snack and a hack saw?

Thank you for all your work.

There are other mods, but most of them are in the witness protection program.

[CDarklock]

I think this is a great way for Allen to see what people are thinking about how to run the forum.

Of course, he can still run the forum however he wants, but all the same... more information can't be bad. And it keeps the complainers busy griping in these polls instead of bothering him all the time.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I think this is a great way for Allen to see what people are thinking about how to run the forum.

Of course, he can still run the forum however he wants, but all the same... more information can't be bad. And it keeps the complainers busy griping in these polls instead of bothering him all the time.

I would think that, ordinarily, you wouldn't want users creating threads and polls discussing forum management. But, this being a marketing forum, I think that it's a little bit of a different situation.

It can be useful information for people that run forums themselves. You see what people do and don't like, what works and doesn't work, and so on, and not just from your own perspective, but from others as well.

And, you know, if something bothers marketers, it may be something that'd be really annoying to non-marketers, so that can be really good to know if you run a non-IM forum.

[Jill Carpenter]

Originally Posted by KimW

Ok, I'm confused. This ISN'T OT,and what do you mean only Mod you see listed? I am sooooooo confused.

See attached file.

Originally Posted by KenStrong

There are other mods, but most of them are in the witness protection program.

[kennethtang]

Hehehe...

"Hey Allen, the neighborhood (you know, us guys who live nearby but come play in your park every day), the neighborhood thinks your villa is the wrong color. Doesn't fit with the whole look of the hood, you know?

Now, we (you know, the hood) we took a poll. We think you should change the color of your villa. Looks better for the whole scenery, you know? Yeah, we think so, all 30 million of us.

O yeah, while we at it, we think your Lamborghini is too "spicy" for the hood. We think you should change it to a nice little family car, you know? Yeah, we think so.

Anyways, we thank you for letting us use your park everyday, you know. We appreciate it. You let us play here and you let us sell stuff here. Thanks man. You the kewlest. But dood, we thinks you should....yeah, we took a poll.

Yeah, we did..."

---------------------------------------------

My fellow Warriors,

On another thread I was thanking an old time Warrior for his Civility in the face of rudeness. On another thread I was commenting on proper Respect. The lack of both (as I see it) in creating polls talking about how the Warrior forum should be run prompted me to write this.

As I see it, the poll feature is there to help members find out about things that could be helpful to them and/or their business. And that is all it is. Nothing more.

Please do not take this the wrong way. I'm not over-reacting. It's just that it occurred to me that the pollsters had NOT asked Allen's permission or views on whether it is permissible.

Let me illustrate with an example.

When I was a head coach (of what is irrelevant), when the executive committee and even the chairman wanted to voice his/their opinions or make changes to my program, they'd speak to me first, ask my views and then perhaps table it to the committee.

They were very respectful, civil and courteous. Consummate professionals. Once in a while, some upstart committee member would simply blurt out "there are some changes I think we should make to the program" during the meeting. They may very well be right, and depending on the issue, I might even agree. But to do it that way was, to me, the height of indiscretion.

They don't know how the world actually works.

In such cases, I'd usually fight the proposal tooth and nail -- because it smacked of "going around me and over my head" to force a decision beyond my formal sphere of influence.

I don't know about how Allen feels about this. He may be much, much more magnanimous than me. But me, I don't particularly like such approaches.

Civility, Respect, Discretion are signs of good breeding -- according to old-fashioned me.

Kenneth

[KimW]

I dont have that on my screen, how do you get it?

[Jill Carpenter]

Originally Posted by KimW

I dont have that on my screen, how do you get it?

I think it only works on MAC.

On the screen before this one, when you are looking at all the topics scroll down to the WWWAAAAAAYYYYYYYY bottom.

[KimW]

Kenneth, you are so right.
Before that thread got deleted,I actually had asked the question how the OP would have felt if I had done that on one of his sites. I was really curious how he would have answered.

[KimW]

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

I think it only works on MAC.

On the screen before this one, when you are looking at all the topics scroll down to the WWWAAAAAAYYYYYYYY bottom.

Well I'll be hog tied and strung up to dry, I do have that. I don't think I have ever scrolled all the way down before!

[Bev Clement]

Jill, if you're going to take snacks to Kenneth, he would like some Dim Sum and make sure you include lots of nice chicken feet and of course congee

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by kennethtang

In such cases, I'd usually fight the proposal tooth and nail -- because it smacked of "going around me and over my head" to force a decision beyond my formal sphere of influence.

I don't see it as going over Allen's head at all. I mean, is there an "over Allen's head" in the first place?

When you have a suggestion for the people in power, you generate grassroots support for it first. If the population at large thinks you have a good idea, and you come to some sort of consensus, then you go bother the people in charge.

I could see your analogy if there were some ability for the members to force Allen's hand, but there's not. The most they can do is say "hey, we would like this" - and Allen can say "great idea" or "go suck eggs" at his sole discretion. But if someone has an idea for the WF, the logical and sensible place to discuss it is... at the WF. It's not like they can discuss it elsewhere.

I think we see this from two different sides. I don't see this as any sort of pressure on Allen; the members here are ultimately unable to compel anything from him. We can vote all day long, and he still gets to run the site however he wants. If we don't like it, we can't exactly remove him from office.

[George Wright]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

No and since this is a poll telling Allen how to run his forum it should vanish.

Hi Mike,

If this pole were created to tell Allen how to run his forum I would agree 100% with you.

However, a closer look at the question and by virtue of knowing who the person is who created the pole I know it's a heads up to those of us who don't know any better than to try to second guess Allen while complaining about the way he runs the forum.

This second guessing and griping about the WF has been going on forever.

It even got so bad concerning the WSO forum at one time that Allen hinted that he was considering discontinuing the WSO section and then the spoilers said, "Good, get rid of it."

There is constructive criticism and there is destructive criticism. On a privately owned forum, IMHO, constructive borderlines on destructive for two reasons.

1. I've always been taught that uninvited advice is just meddling. When Allen asks for advice as he has been doing recently then the advice is not meddling. And....

2. Most if not all, OPs that start out criticizing the WF in a pleasant, nice, tone are the start of threads that end up as bash fests and debates.

George Wright

[Jill Carpenter]

I understand what Kenneth is saying.

Many moons ago I worked as an assistant director and continuity girl on some movie stuff. Anyway, one of the first lessons I learned was not to blurt out what I thought was "wrong" with the shot or how it could be improved. I learned to whisper to the director of the film, and let him make the call as to what to do - if anything.

[kennethtang]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

and Allen can say "great idea" or "go suck eggs" at his sole discretion.

LOL! Good line!

But if someone has an idea for the WF, the logical and sensible place to discuss it is... at the WF.

Ideas, yes. Discuss, yes. Ala "Hey, what if...wouldn't that be cool?". Not polls about "policies" ala "who should be allowed to post what when, where and why, and for how much"

[George Wright]

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

Can we tell all these people how terrible their business plan is, how awful their websites are, how lacking their customer service is, and they take it lying down, and don't argue but implement every single idea? No! Then they have not hope in taking over the running of the WF.

Bev,

You can tell me that anytime day or night and I'd listen very closely. This is entirely another subject.

George Wright

[kennethtang]

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

Jill, if you're going to take snacks to Kenneth, he would like some Dim Sum and make sure you include lots of nice chicken feet and of course congee

Bev,

You've been remotely activating my webcam without my permission again, haven't you?

[Bev Clement]

Kenneth, of course.

But the clue is being Chinese you must love Dim Sum, and most Chinese eat chicken feet, with their perfectly manicured toenails, and congee for breakfast. At least I didn't say dog, snake blood, shark fin soup, abalone and everything else which is Chinese food

Originally Posted by kennethtang

Bev,

You've been remotely activating my webcam without my permission again, haven't you?

[kennethtang]

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

Kenneth, of course.

But the clue is being Chinese you must love Dim Sum, and most Chinese eat chicken feet, with their perfectly manicured toenails, and congee for breakfast. At least I didn't say dog, snake blood, shark fin soup, abalone and everything else which is Chinese food

Excuuuuuuse me...I do NOT eat chicken feet with my perfectly manicured toenails (I do NOT have manicured toenails)...

OK, if you leave out the dog and the snake blood, you have my royal imperial consent to send the rest over (although in these PC times we live it, shark's fin might be a wee bit un-PC)

[Collette]

Polls on how Allen should run HIS forum?

No.

Polls with ideas for making the forum more useful for all?

Yes.

(As in polls asking "Would you find THIS FEATURE useful?" or "What do you think of adding THIS?" - the kind that Allen has been running recently.)

If you have an idea for making the forum more productive and useful, by all means, share it.

If all you want to do is bitch and whine about something that you don't like because it doesn't suit you, then...

...find yourself another forum. Or go start your own.

[Bev Clement]

Kenneth, not your manicured toenails, but the chicken's perfectly manicured toenails, well they are in HK and Mainland

Yes, we can leave the dog and snake blood in the market, I agree with you there.

Never tried chicken feet and don't intend to.

Originally Posted by kennethtang

Excuuuuuuse me...I do NOT eat chicken feet with my perfectly manicured toenails (I do HAVE manicured toenails)...

OK, if you leave out the dog and the snake blood, you have my royal imperial consent to send the rest over (although in these PC times we live it, shark's fin might be a wee bit un-PC)

[AmyBrown]

I think they should be allowed to be posted because, in general, it speaks volumes about the poster. Next time I go to Starbucks I'm going to set up a whiteboard and start asking customers if Starbucks should serve soup.

On the other hand, Starbucks has a suggestion box, perhaps the WF could do the same and that would give people who want to give input a place to put it. Like any suggestion box it could be ignored or reviewed as Allen and mods see fit. There should be no expectation by members that their comments will receive a response.

[Adam Carn]

I don't know about this one, it's a bit like being invited to Allen's house and then not liking his roast chicken, or his tea, or his chandaliers and creating a poll to change all that.

Bit rude in my opinion.

Thanks,
Adam

[Jill Carpenter]

Originally Posted by AmyBrown

I think they should be allowed to be posted because, in general, it speaks volumes about the poster. Next time I go to Starbucks I'm going to set up a whiteboard and start asking customers if Starbucks should serve soup.

On the other hand, Starbucks has a suggestion box, perhaps the WF could do the same and that would give people who want to give input a place to put it. Like any suggestion box it could be ignored or reviewed as Allen and mods see fit. There should be no expectation by members that their comments will receive a response.

There is one. It's called the help desk. At least that would be my route.

[sbucciarel]

Allen doesn't tell me how to run my business and I don't presume to know how to or tell him how to run his business.

[AmyBrown]

Originally Posted by avenuegirl

There is one. It's called the help desk. At least that would be my route.

Perhaps that is what Allen wants but I would hope the help desk does not have to wade through unsolicited suggestions. A suggestion box can be ignored, it's my understanding that help tickets are tracked and a response is given.

IMO it's a separate issue and if input is wanted, and it's not wanted in the general forum, then a suggestion forum or other means of contact could be a solution.

It's a potential solution to what may not even be a problem.

[SMP]

Boy you've opened a can of worms here

IMO, I can't see the harm but I wouldn't expect anything to change as a result of it.

Steve.

[George Wright]

Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan

We live in a society of whiners. This aint McDonalds. You don't
get it your way here.

Paul, Paul, Paul, PLEASE..... This ain't Burger King.....

Me stumbling back to the coffee pot for a Mr. Grumpy fix

George Wright P.S. Maybe Allen would like to borrow Kevin Riley's Sugestion Box...

[Lisa Gergets]

I think Allen should run the forum with Kenneth's perfectly manicured toenails.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by TinkerAndPo

I think Allen should run the forum with Kenneth's perfectly manicured toenails.

Instead of running it by Kevin Riley's hamsters? The hamsters might appreciate the break, though. I bet they're tired of spinning their wheels.

[Lisa Gergets]

Dan, that depends entirely on whether or not the hamsters have perfectly manicured toenails. If not, then that would be completely unacceptable.

[RobinSkeen]

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

Kenneth, of course.

But the clue is being Chinese you must love Dim Sum, and most Chinese eat chicken feet, with their perfectly manicured toenails, and congee for breakfast. At least I didn't say dog, snake blood, shark fin soup, abalone and everything else which is Chinese food

Alrighty then. Chinese food WAS my favorite food until now. Thanks Bev.

[Noah Fleming]

Yo Kenneth, I'm really happy for you and I'm gonna let you finish but Allen has one of the best forums of all time.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Is it too late to change my answer? Polls over which banner ads are best and stuff like that don't bother me, but some of the other "suggestions" are approaching ridiculous levels.

[Kelly Verge]

When users are asked questions such as, "What Would Happen If?...," they are being told in an implied way that their opinions matter and are welcomed.

Some tend to take that implication further than others.

Communication is good. Open, honest communication is better.

In my past life as a manager of a fairly large operation, I openly welcomed suggestions. It was up to me to know when to weigh the opinions of the employees and when the decision fell squarely on my shoulders, regardless of the "crowd" opinions.

Whether these suggestions are in good taste or bad taste really depends completely on the environment - i.e. "the way we do things around here."

In another corporate position I had, all communications had to go through channels. If you jumped up the chain or crossed over to another team to make a suggestion or try to fix something, things got ugly fast. Personally I don't think that was very efficient, but it wasn't my company.

And this isn't my forum.

I am shocked 5 actually said yes... Whoever those 5 are, you are not welcome to my home. Wow, telling someone else how they should run thier own forum ..... Really ?????

James

[Doug English]

What the hell is wrong with users making suggestions on what they'd like to see changed? Nobody is demanding that things are changed based on what they say...they are simply stating what they like, dislike, and what they'd like to see changed. What exactly is the harm in that?

If they are a visitor/member of this forum, doesn't their opinion count? Regardless of your personal opinions on what they are suggesting? Just because it isn't your opinion or your idea of a valid suggestion doesn't mean it might not be worth considering.

This stuff about "It's Allen's forum, its his rules, period" doesn't really apply to this situation. Wouldn't Allen like to sometimes hear what people like and dislike?

If it gets out of hand, he can delete the thread. Or just plain ignore it. Either way, who is being harmed? Nobody...and how do you know that someday he might get a suggestion that would actually help things? What if Frank Kern came here and started a poll about something he'd like to see changed. Would people decide to listen then?

The admin of this forum recently started a thread about something he'd like changed about Clickbank. Allen doesn't own Clickbank and he has no right to tell them what to do or how to run their service, but does that automatically mean that his opinion is worthless and shouldn't be made. After all, its Clickbank's 'house' and god forbid anyone give them their own opinion on how they think their service could improve.

Clickbank can listen to his suggestion and form their own opinion as to its merits....doesn't the same apply to suggestions about this forum?

[George Wright]

To Kenneth,

You tried man, you really tried.

Thanks,

George Wright P.S. I guess you and Paul and maybe even Bryan are going to have to go back to work. Will Allen be away on vacation while you work your magic?

[KimW]

"This stuff about "It's Allen's forum, its his rules, period" doesn't really apply to this situation. Wouldn't Allen like to sometimes hear what people like and dislike?"

Maybe he would and maybe he wouldn't thats his call and no one elses.


"The admin of this forum recently started a thread about something he'd like changed about Clickbank. Allen doesn't own Clickbank and he has no right to tell them what to do or how to run their service, but does that automatically mean that his opinion is worthless and shouldn't be made. After all, its Clickbank's 'house' and god forbid anyone give them their own opinion on how they think their service could improve.

Clickbank can listen to his suggestion and form their own opinion as to its merits....doesn't the same apply to suggestions about this forum? "

There is a MAJOR difference here.Allen started the thread on HIS forum, not clickbanks.