Diploma Of Marketing for US$5,500...what is your take on this?

[jhongren]

Hi,

Recently I am talking to my 19 year old cousin
about further studying.

She has just picked up a diploma for marketing
and the course fee is around US$5500, lasting
for six months.

She mentioned it is a fast track to success.

What do you think?

John

[Andyhenry]

It's just an organisation trying to capitalise on the poor economy and wanting gullible people to think taking a course in IM will suddenly make them a magnet to companies or make themselves millions.

It's BS of course - You know as well as anyone that just having knowledge about IM doesn't make you rich - it's as much about relationships and creativity as any amount of knowledge.

When it comes to being valuable for work - people care about what results you can get, a piece paper and no experience has never been too effective - look at the number of people with a degree that can't get work.

I've done marketing diplomas in the past and they're a waste of time - I knew more than any of the courses tried to teach from teaching myself and testing things online.

Some people will pay for such things just to avoid facing the fact that they're scared about their future and there's no way to control your future without taking personal responsibility for it.

Andy

[Justin Mandel]

Unless the person doing the hiring you cares about what degree you have

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

When it comes to being valuable for work - people care about what results you can get, a piece paper and no experience has never been too effective - look at the number of people with a degree that can't get work.


Andy

[dave147]

sounds over priced and a waste of money, if it was $1200 max, then I wouldn't be against it

[milan]

Is $20,000 too much to pay for a car? The car is new and they say it can go fast.

Dude, it depends. You've told us nothing about the details of the course and type of the diploma she got etc.

[R Hagel]

Hi John,

As mentioned, it depends on your cousin's goals and what, exactly, the diploma can do for her.

For starters, is this diploma from an accredited/respected institution? If not, it's probably not worth pursuing.

Second, is your cousin looking to work for herself or for someone else?

If she wants to work for herself, she doesn't need a diploma. I'm sure you can help her select the right course materials.

If she wants to work for someone else, then she'll need some combination of experience and education. But again, the education needs to come from an accredited institution, not a "factory" that just pumps out diplomas to whoever can cough up the cash.

Cheers,
Becky

[vagabondette]

Sounds like a waste of time and money.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by Justin Mandel

Unless the person doing the hiring you cares about what degree you have

Most people have no interest in what degree you have - they just want someone who can do the job.

I work with companies who specify that a degree is required - and I've yet to meet one that actually cared that you did. It's a strategy used to filter out people.

If you have the relevant experience - they care.

If you have a degree and no experience - the only thing they care about is that you'll probably work for peanuts.

There are the exceptional occasions where a certain qualification is required in order to fit in with regulations or customer enforced specifications (I once worked with a company who required you were Microsoft certified to a particular level because their customer asked for that, and similar for Cisco certs).

I don't have a degree - I've never been interested in doing anything just for a piece of paper, but I have a lot of vocational qualifications for things (like marketing, coaching, nlp, hypnosis) that focus on specific things which are aimed at enabling you to do some sort of work more proficiently.

I've NEVER had anyone tell me that not having a degree ruled me out of any work - and I've had several jobs that stipulated a degree was essential.

It's a common misconception about what employers want - they usually don't give two hoots what piece of paper you have, in the same way as your bank manager doesn't care what qualifications you have - just that you can pay back the money you want to borrow.

I give work to people all the time - ALWAYS based on competency.

My programmer has no degree and he left his day job over 3 years ago to work with me.

This subject is a lot like many of the other things in IM - people like to use 'lack of education' as a reason for their lack of success.

You don't NEED ANY qualification to make money or be successful - unless you're looking to work for someone else, and even then - experience and ability are usually more important.

The school system isn't there to make you the best person you can be, it's there to churn out people the government need to fill jobs.

With the economic climate the way it is, focus is on ability and results now more than ever.

/rant.

[DogScout]

Probably more useful info for free in this forum. Save the cash.

[jhongren]

Originally Posted by R Hagel

Hi John,

As mentioned, it depends on your cousin's goals and what, exactly, the diploma can do for her.

For starters, is this diploma from an accredited/respected institution? If not, it's probably not worth pursuing.

Second, is your cousin looking to work for herself or for someone else?

If she wants to work for herself, she doesn't need a diploma. I'm sure you can help her select the right course materials.

If she wants to work for someone else, then she'll need some combination of experience and education. But again, the education needs to come from an accredited institution, not a "factory" that just pumps out diplomas to whoever can cough up the cash.

Cheers,
Becky

Hi Becky,

It is a mystery how nowadays young teenagers think.

She wont care what institution it is as long as her friends
say it is "good" and she wont bother to check at all with
our local education ministry.

And she does not want to work for others and is too
lazy to work for herself.

And all she thinks is that a diploma in marketing sounds
good and she "can" survive in the world (not knowing how)

I have no idea what she wants too...

Have you encounter anyone with such a funny thinking?

John

[Justin Mandel]

Not the case at all Andy.

Many people DO care about what your bringing to the table education wise.

Having a degree is a door opener and you said it yourself:

I work with companies who specify that a degree is required

There's many different people in the world and everyone sees things differently.

IF someone is trying to get hired by a company which type of person will they find on the other side of the desk?

Bad economy or not hopefully it's a practical person doing the hiring that DOES NOT care about degrees and focuses on results.

But, if not ya just be **** outa luck

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Most people have no interest in what degree you have - they just want someone who can do the job.

I work with companies who specify that a degree is required - and I've yet to meet one that actually cared that you did. It's a strategy used to filter out people.

If you have the relevant experience - they care.

If you have a degree and no experience - the only thing they care about is that you'll probably work for peanuts.

There are the exceptional occasions where a certain qualification is required in order to fit in with regulations or customer enforced specifications (I once worked with a company who required you were Microsoft certified to a particular level because their customer asked for that, and similar for Cisco certs).

I don't have a degree - I've never been interested in doing anything just for a piece of paper, but I have a lot of vocational qualifications for things (like marketing, coaching, nlp, hypnosis) that focus on specific things which are aimed at enabling you to do some sort of work more proficiently.

I've NEVER had anyone tell me that not having a degree ruled me out of any work - and I've had several jobs that stipulated a degree was essential.

It's a common misconception about what employers want - they usually don't give two hoots what piece of paper you have, in the same way as your bank manager doesn't care what qualifications you have - just that you can pay back the money you want to borrow.

I give work to people all the time - ALWAYS based on competency.

My programmer has no degree and he left his day job over 3 years ago to work with me.

This subject is a lot like many of the other things in IM - people like to use 'lack of education' as a reason for their lack of success.

You don't NEED ANY qualification to make money or be successful - unless you're looking to work for someone else, and even then - experience and ability are usually more important.

The school system isn't there to make you the best person you can be, it's there to churn out people the government need to fill jobs.

With the economic climate the way it is, focus is on ability and results now more than ever.

/rant.

[vagabondette]

@ Andyhenry - I've had the same experience. I don't have a degree and have no desire to obtain one. It's never been a problem and I've had several jobs where the minimum requirement was a MBA - including one consulting for Congress.

Smart companies know that it's what you know that's important, not what piece of paper you have hanging on your wall.

@ John - there are lots of younger people today who think that just because they want something to happen it will - regardless of what skills they may or may not have. I've met a LOT of them. She'll learn eventually but it will probably be the hard way.

[Andyhenry]

Jon

my ex-wides brother is just the same. He's lazy and thinks that success will come like a lottery win. He always talks about this qualification and that qualification but had no idea what he wants to do. He seems to think that doing a course will mean he doesn't have to make a decision.

[jschop]

I agree with AndyHenry that if what you want to do for a living is internet marketing, you're better off learning for yourself. It does sound like she just wants a pre-packaged set-up so that she only has to minimally invest herself to it. If that's the case, she should just get a job working for someone else, and she doesn't have to pay for a course to do that.

For the people who say that some companies feel you need a degree to work for them, I completely agree. However, what is that company going to think about a 6 month education? That's not what they're looking for when they say they want someone with a degree.

[TimCastleman]

Here is my take - take $1,000 and buy a ton of marketing books and read them. Then use them - you'll be 100 times better off than any guy with a degree.

Seriously, I have my BA degree and I have read more and studied more after college more than I ever did in college.

Invest in yourself and you'll be much better off.

Tim

[vagabondette]

Originally Posted by Justin Mandel

Not the case at all Andy.

Many people DO care about what your bringing to the table education wise.

Having a degree is a door opener and you said it yourself:



There's many different people in the world and everyone sees things differently.

IF someone is trying to get hired by a company which type of person will they find on the other side of the desk?

Bad economy or not hopefully it's a practical person doing the hiring that DOES NOT care about degrees and focuses on results.

But, if not ya just be **** outa luck

Not my experience. I've worked in multiple industries and every job I've ever applied for (since I was 18) had a minimum of a BA listed for education. In recent years the minimum has been MBA. I have neither. What I have are skills.

I have been offered every single job I've ever applied for in the last 20 years. Every. Single. One. This is with no degree. This includes a job where, if you wanted to, you could find me on YouTube in a CNN clip testifying in front of Congress as an expert.

I have yet to meet an employer who had a problem with it. Some have questioned why I don't have a degree but they offered me the job anyway.

Degrees are a dime a dozen these days and BAs have become virtually worthless in some areas. Having a degree only means that you can sit in a classroom and take a test. It doesn't mean you can do a job.

[JonathanBoettcher]

I got a degree in business before I got into IM, and basically what it taught me is a way of thinking. Did I learn anything there that I use now? Not that I can identify. But it helped out my way of thinking.

Could I have developed that way of thinking by reading dozen carefully selected books by field experts? Yes, of course I could have. I would have saved a ton of money, not to mention 4 years. But heck, school was fun too.

School is great, but once you get a job, or go into business for yourself, that's when you REALLY start learning.

[Desmond Ong]

I believe that you start learning when you start working.

Right now I'm in a college and so far, I guess nothing that I learned in college has helped me yet.

When I hired a programmer a couple of months back, a couple of guys with some fancy degrees in programming approached me but both have zero experience but another guy who has no degree or whatsoever approach me and I hire him right away. Why? Because he got the experiences. He's what I called "street smart".

That is why I always believe that "street smart" always will beat "book smart".

[alvinhuang]

Which institution is she taking it from John? Her diploma course looks a tad pricey and suspicious since it's only for 6 months. I'm sure you know the standard diploma course by the government linked polytechnics takes 3 years.

I know that the private institutions can have it cut down to 2 or 1 years. But 6 months is pretty short. Sometimes they have a diploma course, and then another advanced diploma course. Which is needed if she chooses to have credits exempted if she wants to pursue their degree courses. So its basically sorta half a diploma. You might want to help her check it out since she's family.

Well...a diploma ain't half that bad if she still hasn't decided what to do with her life. Though of course it's much better if she can decide what she wants to do for a living.

With regards to validity of the diploma, the big MNCs will still look at where the cert came from. Local companies are less stringent. For example, I hire diploma holders too. All our staff are diploma holders. Ain't picky about where it's from, just as long as they think logically and can understand the SEO article i pass em to read during the interview. =)

Alvin Huang

[pheonix44]

Not the case at all Andy.

Many people DO care about what your bringing to the table education wise.

Having a degree is a door opener and you said it yourself:

I believe most "people" care, that is the people who are not in control of hiring you. I believe the only reason to get a degree is more for social credibility then anything else.

But trust me when I tell you that companies want EXPERIENCE, they could give a crap about a degree. The only way they care is if their customers care in that case they may be willing to pay for you to go to school.

But hands on ability is what matters the most these days, specialized training. I know a girl who has two degrees and works at walmart because both of her degrees are not specialized in anything worth paying her to do.

[Andyhenry]

Exactly - This is my experience too and not just from the perspective of going for jobs. I've interviewed people for other companies and own a company also.

The only people who usually care are people who have their ego wrapped up in their own status and certification.

I was considering doing an MBA a few years ago just out of interest and everyone I spoke to that had one said I shouldn't bother as my practical experience in marketing and high-tech start ups would be much more valuable anyway and why detract from that just to get a piece of paper less valuable than actually DOING what people usually get MBAs in order to do.

I agree with the perspective that going to University etc can be a great life experience in itself -that's cool, but I don't think people should kid themselves that getting a piece of paper will suddenly change their future or guarantee a job.

Most employers respect achievement and aspiration, but that can come in many forms - a qualification not being the top one.

Andy

Originally Posted by vagabondette

Not my experience. I've worked in multiple industries and every job I've ever applied for (since I was 18) had a minimum of a BA listed for education. In recent years the minimum has been MBA. I have neither. What I have are skills.

I have been offered every single job I've ever applied for in the last 20 years. Every. Single. One. This is with no degree. This includes a job where, if you wanted to, you could find me on YouTube in a CNN clip testifying in front of Congress as an expert.

I have yet to meet an employer who had a problem with it. Some have questioned why I don't have a degree but they offered me the job anyway.

Degrees are a dime a dozen these days and BAs have become virtually worthless in some areas. Having a degree only means that you can sit in a classroom and take a test. It doesn't mean you can do a job.

[jhongren]

Originally Posted by alvinhuang

Which institution is she taking it from John? Her diploma course looks a tad pricey and suspicious since it's only for 6 months. I'm sure you know the standard diploma course by the government linked polytechnics takes 3 years.

I know that the private institutions can have it cut down to 2 or 1 years. But 6 months is pretty short. Sometimes they have a diploma course, and then another advanced diploma course. Which is needed if she chooses to have credits exempted if she wants to pursue their degree courses. So its basically sorta half a diploma. You might want to help her check it out since she's family.

Well...a diploma ain't half that bad if she still hasn't decided what to do with her life. Though of course it's much better if she can decide what she wants to do for a living.

With regards to validity of the diploma, the big MNCs will still look at where the cert came from. Local companies are less stringent. For example, I hire diploma holders too. All our staff are diploma holders. Ain't picky about where it's from, just as long as they think logically and can understand the SEO article i pass em to read during the interview. =)

Alvin Huang

Thanks Alvin.

I think most probably I will let her dad know
who have been paying for her courses.

I feel the thing is for these kids, the money is
never a problem as they have a ready money
supplier at home (from parents).

So they never take all these courses
seriously.

I agree that attitude is the one that counts.

What does she want to get out of this?
How does she sees her course?

From the look of it, I think she is just
"trying it for fun" at the expense of her
dad's hard-earned money.

John

[Mohammad Afaq]

Here's the thing,

If you cousin wants to become an SEO consultant or whatever for some big website then I don't think it is too expensive but if she is just gonna do internet marketing herself then I think that she would have been a lot better by spending that money on the marketing and it would have made her a good amount of money in some time.

[Ehanson]

Degrees aren't always a fast track to success relevant experience is. That kind of statement would raise a red flag in my book.

You can be a self taught marketer and you don't need to pay a penny. Direct her here, there's a ton of great free marketing advice from experienced marketing experts right here.

Was it an online degree?

[Ehanson]

Degrees aren't always a "fast track to success" relevant experience is. That kind of statement would raise a red flag in my book.

You can be a self taught marketer and you don't need to pay a penny. Direct her here, there's a ton of great free marketing advice from experienced marketing experts right here.

Was it an online degree?