Review My Videos! Go Ahead, Sabatoge Them Too! I need Serious Critiquing Of My Video Marketing....

[acrasial]

I have 4 videos up on youtube as of now, under the relationship niche...

But I would like people to review them and give me any suggestions, on what I can do for future videos, or if I should just continue on in the same manner as I am currently doing.

thanks...


also, I am afraid to put their links in here, as the videos contain links to affiliate stuff, and I don't want to be given an infraction for self promotion...


so if anyone is interested in giving me serious tips about these videos, and showing me what can be changed/fixed/made better etc... then that would be really appreciated.

[JeffMitchell]

Give me a youtube username....and I will have a look....We need some way to find them...

Jeff Mitchell

[acrasial]

there are 4 videos. please be extremely critical... and I mean extremely critical, as I need to know what's not working for my next set of videos.


as well, something else I have read in another post on here today, was that they suggested not going from video straight to text, but rather to use another video in between to pass things along... and then asking them to opt in, and telling them what they will get if they do opt in.

Then from there, sending out at least 7 emails telling them some tips, and other good things about the product (soft sales leading), and then finally the sales page/letter thing...


So what do you Warriors think about this as well, because currently the Link I am directing them to in the video is a redirected URL for a product of which i am an affiliate.

As well, I considered using youtube as a source for backlinking, and have also placed some of my ezine articles in there, in the description... but also included a different kind of description in each video- which was more like an article, rather than just randomly listed keywords.

[acrasial]

Please any reviews of this would be appreciated.

[JeffMitchell]

The videos look good, but they need more personality...they need to have a face. I think that you should get in front of the camera and share things with people. There are people who are in the same niche that are killing it. You can do the same...


Jeff Mitchell

[acrasial]

mmm... ok- so I put my face- then I am just selling myself...no?


mmm... I am not sure that I am comfortable putting my identity out there like that-

Alot of the people i see in this niche with videos...like T-dub... are middle aged men...lol.


Getting in front of a cam is different for a guy, than it is for a girl... I think too-mentally...

but I guess that I can just hire someone to do that as well... an actor.


thanks

[mediamogul]

I agree with Jeff, get in front of the camera or pay someone to. The info is great but the powerpoint is a little dry for my liking. jazz is up!

[acrasial]

haha I am not sure how getting in front of the camera, or hiring an actor would jazz anything up?


I have seen hired actors, who were boring as heck as well.

I even find t-dub's videos to be boring as heck-...


So how do you sit in front of a camera and not make it boring as heck?

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by acrasial

haha I am not sure how getting in front of the camera, or hiring an actor would jazz anything up?


I have seen hired actors, who were boring as heck as well.

I even find t-dub's videos to be boring as heck-...


So how do you sit in front of a camera and not make it boring as heck?

You make it not boring as heck by infusing the presentation
with your personality... assuming your personality isn't boring as heck.

If your avatar is an actual picture of you, you were made to be on camera.

Go watch some videos by LisaNova... she'll show you how to make
it not boring as heck.

Tsnyder

[Tsnyder]

P.S. I watched your How To Get Your Ex Back video... you asked
for hard criticism... that video is boring as heck.

Tsnyder

[acrasial]

I find her recent videos silly- like "the station", and if you look at ANY comments on the station, you will notice that more than 50% of them on any video state :this sucks, this is stupid, boring etc... they have lost their touch, so it seems.

I am not making random videos for entertainment, I am trying to help people... so that's what I am asking as well.... do you know of anyone who does informative videos, who has a good personality?

I can link Eban Pagan or Tony Robbins to having a good personality on the camera, as well as being informative at the same time, but they are guys... I am not sure if the same kind of thing would work for me, as I am a girl... but I can sure try it.


Thanks

[acrasial]

I want to be more genuine, and appeal to people... not be called stupid, dumb, retarded in the comment sections etc... I don't think that is what I am looking for either.

for instance... some comments on Lisa Nova's most recent video...:


ShortFreakyDude (6 hours ago) Show Hide
-1
Marked as spam Reply | Spam

camera angles s*@$ balls



mustbebrittny (7 hours ago) Show Hide
0
Marked as spam Reply | Spam

haha, this is goddamn louis vuitton.



RockiinLove (7 hours ago) Show Hide
0
Marked as spam Reply | Spam

this isnt even funny
its not even awsome fighting its retarded



96mort (7 hours ago) Show Hide
-1
Marked as spam Reply | Spam

stupid and retarded




I mean... this kind of baffles me, your example.

as for the personality, obviously we have conflicting views as to what personality is in the first place. I relate personality to someone like Tony Robbins....you seem to relate it to someone named "Lisa Nova". So I mean I could sit in front of a camera, and some may say I lack personality then, and others may say I do not... it seems to be a matter of perspective as well.

But for sure, I know that my videos need sprucing up, and to be more amusing to the person watching them- but also i want to maintain a level of decency and professionalism, so that the reader feels they are getting what they came looking for in the first place: help and information.

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by acrasial

I find her recent videos silly- like "the station", and if you look at ANY comments on the station, you will notice that more than 50% of them on any video state :this sucks, this is stupid, boring etc... they have lost their touch, so it seems.

I am not making random videos for entertainment, I am trying to help people... so that's what I am asking as well.... do you know of anyone who does informative videos, who has a good personality?

I can link Eban Pagan or Tony Robbins to having a good personality on the camera, as well as being informative at the same time, but they are guys... I am not sure if the same kind of thing would work for me, as I am a girl... but I can sure try it.


Thanks

You miss the point. Yes, her videos tend to be kinda
silly but that's apparently the persona she wants to promote.

The point is personality... she isn't just sitting in front of
the camera reading copy.

Get over the idea that men have some kind of advantage
in this area. That simply isn't true.

I have another friend (a young woman) who does an excellent
job at infusing her videos with personality... I'll go find her channel
and post it here for you as another example.

Tsnyder

[Tsnyder]

Originally Posted by acrasial

I mean... this kind of baffles me, your example.

as for the personality, obviously we have conflicting views as to what personality is in the first place. I relate personality to someone like Tony Robbins....you seem to relate it to someone named "Lisa Nova". So I mean I could sit in front of a camera, and some may say I lack personality then, and others may say I do not... it seems to be a matter of perspective as well.

But for sure, I know that my videos need sprucing up, and to be more amusing to the person watching them- but also i want to maintain a level of decency and professionalism, so that the reader feels they are getting what they came looking for in the first place: help and information.

Stop trying to compare... I only chose LisaNova because she's a woman and
you seem to have some belief that women can't do this as well as men.

Despite the comments left be some her videos have millions of views. She must
be doing something that appeals to someone. Often, it's those who have negative
things to say who will take the time to leave comments. I wouldn't put a lot of
stock in what negative people have to say.

In any case... interesting includes the 3 P's of public speaking... Pitch, Pace
and Pause. It also includes facial expression and body language.

Women can do this every bit as god as men.

Tsnyder

[Tsnyder]

Here's one video from the young woman I mentioned.

Now... she's being a little silly here, not selling a product,
but don't get caught up in the content... I offer it as an
example of a woman on video not being boring by infusing
the presentation with her personality.

YouTube - Cuz I'm Latino

Tsnyder

[Tsnyder]

Here's a woman how is selling something... not being silly.
She understands pitch, pace and pause... and body language.

She is not boring on video...

YouTube - Day 20 Part 2 - Living in Love with Dr....

Tsnyder

[Jim W.]

OK So I first watched:

Pull Your Ex Back- This Works Even If They Are Dating Someone Else!


It does not engage you at all, the music is this daunting overture that does not inspire me. It makes me feel like I am on the road to some horrible battle with the devil.

Presenting text and pics with background music has to show me something besides slide transition effects. The music has to grab me, make me feel that this is absolutely the best way to get my ex back possible. Really engaging marketing creates feelings within you, right now the only feeling you have created is that I will never get back the 2 min 13 secs I spent watching that video.

There is a call to action in the "Click the Link" part, but I am so sedated and bored by this point that I could not be bothered.

A really powerful 30 sec spot is much more effective than a boring 2 min spot. I do not agree that you HAVE to get in front of the camera. It is video and some actual video clips might be nice. A voice over would add emphasis. Engaging music is a must!

Ruthless and honest,

Jim

[Jim W.]

Alright just watched:

How To Pull Your Ex Back--- Use This Trick To Get Your Ex Back!


MUCH BETTER, but too long. 4 min 8 secs, you have a great voice, use it!! You sound natural, very good! You don't use anything between your mouth and the microphone, not good!!

You need to have a screen, cover, or something to block your breathing from hitting the mike. You need to make it ALOT shorter, you need to infuse more personality into the call to action, "I highly urge you to Click the link in the sidebar now" is not the same as:

"Do you want your EX back NOW? CLICK the link in the sidebar NOW! Before the chance is gone FOREVER!"

If you are dealing with desperate people, take advantage of it. Build it up, stir the pot, make it so they can't do anything BUT Click the link in the sidebar!

Way too much information, save it for your sight. Stalking, texting, monitoring.....it gets boring really quick and your energy level drops in the voice over as it goes on, you are getting bored too. How many times did you try that voice over?

Much better than the daunting music, your voice engaged me. I don't feel like I want that 4 mins of my life back. But I got bored and just clicked another video when it was over.

Honest and Happier,

Jim

[EndGame]

acrasial,

If you have problems putting your identity to this, then is this something you should be doing? I mean, if it's not something you would like to personally associate with and it is something you can't be proud of, why are you doing it? You like helping people, and you will potentially make money at the same time from it, why hide from that? Surely that is something you can be proud of if the content and information you provide is good?

On another note, if you attract thousands or millions of views to your content/videos you are naturally going to get negativity and nasty/mis-guided comments. This will stem from a number of things including jealousy.

However, if you decide to put yourself out there in the public eye, everyone is not going to like you, people will be very vocal about it. Just because other vloggers/bloggers get hateful comments whilst marketing with their personality, doesn't mean it is a flawed business model. Because to counter-balance there will always be supportive and positive comments. Furthermore, I strongly believe there is a young generation of youtubers making good money and getting noticed by mainstream media through their personality-based videos. Mitchell Davies (livelavalive), Chris Crocker, Mememolly are a few names that jump to mind. They all put up with huge amounts of negativity, but they keep going. It must be worth doing, otherwise they would have given up on this a long time ago.

Negative comments is not really a valid reason to avoid this approach.

Now, why would you being in front of the camera make your videos any better? Let me take a number of educated guesses:

1. As has already been mentioned, you seem pretty photogenic according to your avatar here.

2. Vocal communication plays a tiny part on how humans communicate. We tend to understand some one better if we can see their facial expressions etc and their body language.

3. When we can see some one in front of us, face on camera, for the reasons mentioned above, it REALLY helps to build trust.

4. Ask yourself why anyone should listen to you? This is something we should all ask ourselves when we are trying to promote something or ourselves.
Some people are under the impression if they build it "they" will come. And this isn't the case. Lets be honest, very few people (if any) are teaching or saying anything that is new (including you and me). But why is it so many people can sell info and products online which all same much of the same thing? Well, they all have their own USP (unique selling point).

The USP can be anything from the way the person writes/presents information to their personality or opinions on the subject they are talking about. Your personality can always be a USP, because who you are is unique to you! And some people will love it, and some people will hate it. As long as your successful, what do you care?

You need to grab, engage and entertain the viewers before they will listen to what you have to say or take action on your suggestions (i.e. clicking the link in the vid description).

I am not saying you HAVE to get in front of camera, but it is a massive help.

-It's your easiest and best USP
-It builds trust
-It allows your viewers to understand you better
-It's super easy to do these days
-It engages people more than stock photos and slideshows

What you do is up to you. None of the following are valid excuses for what is being suggested though:

1. I am female, and it doesn't work for females.
2. I might get nasty comments/negativity (President Obama, maybe one of the most popular figures in the World recently attracts a lot of hatred)
3. It won't look professional (you can most certainly make the effort to make it look professional.

If you don't decide to go in front of camera (some people ar ejust not comfortable with it, and thats cool!) then you need to do something, because the current videos I am afraid to say are just not engaging, or interesting to watch/listen to at the moment.

I hope some of the above has helped you or some one else reading this thread and I wish you luck on what you choose to do.

[acrasial]

Tsnyder,

I didn't mean that I felt I cannot do it because i am female, but rather that the people who I think do it best just so happen to be men... and they pull it off in their own way. I meant that I had not seen a female do it quite the same way as those two examples I listed.

But certainly these examples are better, and I do understand that Lisa Nova is something like the 40 most subscribed of all time on youtube etc... so certainly she does appeal to alot of people.

But Chris crocker was also one of the most subscribed....lol. So that's what I was saying was the "entertainment" versus "education" aspect of videos people make... because as I mentioned, I was going more for trying to help people and educate them... instead of making a fool of myself.

You seemed to have hit the bingo button on something like what I want, so it's all good, but I see body language to be persistently present with the last example you gave...

Just wondering how many people can stand in front of a crowd... and say something- without having a speech in front of them? How many people can actually pull that off... because it's not as easy as it looks either... and I don't think that this means I don't love the product etc... or that I don't know something- it's just that I guess I need to work on getting my message out better "on the spot".

so I will make a video sometime this week, I think before the end of the week, and you can check back later to see if you like it. I think that's what I am going to do.

[acrasial]

Originally Posted by Jim W.

OK So I first watched:

Pull Your Ex Back- This Works Even If They Are Dating Someone Else!


It does not engage you at all, the music is this daunting overture that does not inspire me. It makes me feel like I am on the road to some horrible battle with the devil.

Presenting text and pics with background music has to show me something besides slide transition effects. The music has to grab me, make me feel that this is absolutely the best way to get my ex back possible. Really engaging marketing creates feelings within you, right now the only feeling you have created is that I will never get back the 2 min 13 secs I spent watching that video.

There is a call to action in the "Click the Link" part, but I am so sedated and bored by this point that I could not be bothered.

A really powerful 30 sec spot is much more effective than a boring 2 min spot. I do not agree that you HAVE to get in front of the camera. It is video and some actual video clips might be nice. A voice over would add emphasis. Engaging music is a must!

Ruthless and honest,

Jim

Honestly, I can read everyone's reviews here, but they are so descriptive... that it's hard to actually imagine what exactly you meant, so as I have asked others, do you have an example of a short video, which grabbed your attention, and made you feel excited about it?


Yes, I get your point about creating feelings- mmm... but that means I have to put myself in THEIR shoes (and if you have read my off topic post about manners, you would see that Is something i struggle with.. is to understand people, especially within a short period of time. But I am working on it. perhaps this would be a good test to become better at it?)

well that video sure was something else, I just decided to test a video like that as well. As for the presentation of the slides themselves... I do not know any graphics etc... So at the time I wasn't even sure how to do anything further with it, so I just went with what I had.

But certainly that is something to take into consideration, but I would really love an example from your end, to see really what you are talking about, in the sense of the visuals, sounds etc.

[acrasial]

Originally Posted by EndGame

acrasial,

If you have problems putting your identity to this, then is this something you should be doing? I mean, if it's not something you would like to personally associate with and it is something you can't be proud of, why are you doing it?

I never said that I don't personally associate with it, there are plenty of people online who market THEIR OWN products, and they love their products, but they just prefer a sort of anonymity about it. Once I put my identity out there, I am subject to god knows what from certain psycho internet people... and trust me, things can get messy if you put your things out there, and someone doesn't like you etc... That was the real underlying concern.

Whereas if you keep things to yourself (such as your identity), people aren't able to do the above. Even some of the most successful internet entrepreneurs use aliases and different names: Eben Pagan becomes David Deangelo.... there is some other guy I found too, who does the same thing, has become an internet icon, celeb etc... but the name he used was all made up... but of course that is the name.

However, I do know of people who do not show their face still... and I wouldn't say it's what you said, but rather just a preference to some privacy.

I have had people googling me, and pulling up things I did 3-4 years ago online... and back then, I was not even close to the person I am now, but these things can be thrown in your face, right? it's just not cool... and now that I know the power of the online world, in the sense of what can stick there... even years later, that's my other concern too... it's not even product related.

Originally Posted by EndGame

You like helping people, and you will potentially make money at the same time from it, why hide from that? Surely that is something you can be proud of if the content and information you provide is good?

At the same time, that's why I am asking for input on the video, because it has to appeal to OTHER PEOPLE, the customers etc... so if it's not appealing to them, I can't exactly be proud of it, can I?

Originally Posted by EndGame

On another note, if you attract thousands or millions of views to your content/videos you are naturally going to get negativity and nasty/mis-guided comments. This will stem from a number of things including jealousy.

That is true, but what I was talking about, as mentioned above, was not the comments, but rather people who are really psychotic internet users...hackers even... all kinds of things.

Originally Posted by EndGame

However, if you decide to put yourself out there in the public eye, everyone is not going to like you, people will be very vocal about it. Just because other vloggers/bloggers get hateful comments whilst marketing with their personality, doesn't mean it is a flawed business model.

Well I am not even at that stage yet...lol. But true, people will be vocal about it- I tend to take alot of things personally still.. and I am a girl (emotional and all that bla bla)... so yeh, sometimes things people say DO hurt... not that I take everything into account, but yes sometimes things can irk me- I am a human after all.

It's much easier to take, if its not personally aimed and directed at me- such as in a video where i do not APPEAR...whereas if i were in a video and appearing, suddenly comments would come in about my appearance... heck people will say all kinds of things... and as mentioned, it's not that I care what everyone thinks, but as mentioned, every once in a while, there comes a person who irks me.

Honestly, Tsnyder did with his comments- but I have to take it, because I asked for it- but in this case I am asking for opinions, comments, sabatage etc... but in the real thing, .... I am not.

Originally Posted by EndGame

Because to counter-balance there will always be supportive and positive comments. Furthermore, I strongly believe there is a young generation of youtubers making good money and getting noticed by mainstream media through their personality-based videos. Mitchell Davies (livelavalive), Chris Crocker, Mememolly are a few names that jump to mind. They all put up with huge amounts of negativity, but they keep going. It must be worth doing, otherwise they would have given up on this a long time ago.

Those are youtube partners, presumably? What I would be doing is different... but true they do persist.

Originally Posted by EndGame

Negative comments is not really a valid reason to avoid this approach.

As mentioned, it's not so much the comments, as it is a worry about sick people online...stalkers/psychotic people etc... and YOUtubers have to deal with that too. I have seen a few youtubers disappear due to threats, and psychotic people... it can be scary... and do I want to risk that? that's what I am really asking... because I live with my family- and they will kick my 4$$, should they learn that some psychotic person is lirking around, because of what I do online.

Originally Posted by EndGame

Now, why would you being in front of the camera make your videos any better? Let me take a number of educated guesses:

1. As has already been mentioned, you seem pretty photogenic according to your avatar here.

I find this to be a really dumb reason to get in front of the camera...lol. Honestly- looks...out the window already! Cheez.

Originally Posted by EndGame

2. Vocal communication plays a tiny part on how humans communicate. We tend to understand some one better if we can see their facial expressions etc and their body language.

I have been told that I am good at facial expressions... but the kind I use, may seem weird when applied in this kind of situation, ..lol.

Originally Posted by EndGame

3. When we can see some one in front of us, face on camera, for the
reasons mentioned above, it REALLY helps to build trust.

...

I am not sure how that builds trust, when most people who are in front of a camera are actors...lol. People are so naive, then? man.

Originally Posted by EndGame

4. Ask yourself why anyone should listen to you? This is something we should all ask ourselves when we are trying to promote something or ourselves.
Some people are under the impression if they build it "they" will come. And this isn't the case. Lets be honest, very few people (if any) are teaching or saying anything that is new (including you and me). But why is it so many people can sell info and products online which all same much of the same thing? Well, they all have their own USP (unique selling point).

True, people do get that impression, but i have learned that this is not how it works either. Certainly, I realize that alot of what I say is just regenerated content, but to some people this may be new... but certainly I have been considering for some time now, how to make it different, plus do all of what I mentioned: appeal to people etc...

Originally Posted by EndGame

1. I am female, and it doesn't work for females.

I never meant to imply that I thought being female put me in a huge disadvantage, what i meant was that I had not seen any females doing it like the men I had listed, and was wondering if anyone else had, and had any examples.

Originally Posted by EndGame

3. It won't look professional (you can most certainly make the effort to make it look professional.

Omg, haha I never meant that either- what I meant was the example someone had provided was bordering on the silly line, and was more for entertainment- thus it wasn't as professional from the standpoint of helping people, but once again, that is my opinion.

Originally Posted by EndGame

If you don't decide to go in front of camera (some people ar ejust not comfortable with it, and thats cool!) then you need to do something, because the current videos I am afraid to say are just not engaging, or interesting to watch/listen to at the moment.

Yup, that seems to be the consensus here.

[acrasial]

Originally Posted by Jim W.

MUCH BETTER, but too long. 4 min 8 secs, you have a great voice, use it!! You sound natural, very good! You don't use anything between your mouth and the microphone, not good!!

You see, the reason that I made them so long, was because I thought I could earn more trust, by giving more in the video. People want information, and i felt that longer videos, explaining things more thoroughly would do it, as I noticed alot of my competition was doing the same.

As for the breathing thing... what exactly is "something to block"....? lol? what kind of screen? do you have any sort of name for it, because I have never heard of such a thing before...?

Originally Posted by Jim W.

If you are dealing with desperate people, take advantage of it. Build it up, stir the pot, make it so they can't do anything BUT Click the link in the sidebar!

Certainly, I never looked at it like that before... as for the information, if you checked the link it's an affiliate link- and it's not my website, it's someone else's... so do you then suggest that I set up some sort of blog with a sales page leading into it, opt in etc?? That is also something that has been suggested to me from the people here on WF.

Originally Posted by Jim W.

it gets boring really quick and your energy level drops in the voice over as it goes on, you are getting bored too. How many times did you try that voice over?

It depends, I think a few times for each video.... hahaha.

Originally Posted by Jim W.

Much better than the daunting music, your voice engaged me. I don't feel like I want that 4 mins of my life back. But I got bored and just clicked another video when it was over.

True... boredom is still the consensus here...

[EndGame]

acraisal,

I'll reply with what I can remember and reference quickly from your replies above:

1. The reason why you are trusted more when you are in front of camera is because (as I mentioned) a lot of our communication is non-verbal. You might also be familiar with the expression "the eyes are the window to the soul". And in the online space (the one you are working in) most of the people on the screen are NOT actors.

2. With regards to the information being new to other people, that is true. But unless you are ranking well, and yours is the first content they come across on the subject you need to stand out and catch attention. Even if you are catching the newbie market, you still need to engage them. Your personality, or presentational skills is what makes your pitch unique. Otherwise the newbies or other people in your market could just watch other average videos in the same niche.

3. Tsynder may have irked you, I may have irked you, but we're both trying to help you.

4. Pyschos, hackers, terrorists, pedophiles, rapists. Yup they are all online, but they are all on our streets and in our shops and schools as well. They are everywhere. Regrettably, due to the nature of the Internet, you are right in saying if the bad guys know what they are doing, they can make life challenging and horrifying for you.
But there are precautions you can take. What is more, you seem to be thinking in terms of the worst case scenarios. The kind of stuff you are talking about is not too common that it over-runs the web, otherwise a lot of us here on this forum wouldn't be running our businesses online.
If you are truly held-back by what bad people *might* do, maybe you should stay away from online business altogether? Again, just thinking out loud, but as long as you are not being deliberately offensive, I don't see why such people would come for you.

I mean come on, Perez Hilton has to be one of the most offensive human beings I have come across, and the worst that has happened to him is he got rich and punched by one of the Black-eyed peas. Then he cried about it on his blog *yawn*

[EndGame]

It also looks like you have mis-quoted me in one of your replies as well.

Just a heads up and a polite request not to put words in my mouth.

[acrasial]

Originally Posted by EndGame

It also looks like you have mis-quoted me in one of your replies as well.

Just a heads up and a polite request not to put words in my mouth.

How did I misquote you? I simply quoted what you said, and replied with my opinion, questions, and ideas on it.

Technically then, I am only misinterpreting what you said, as you said it, and if that is the case, then I am sorry that I have misinterpreted you. Of course I need to work on understanding people better.

[EndGame]

Look at your reply to Jim.W. Where you have quoted what he has written, it says my name instead of his, and since I don't agree with everything that was said, I would rather not have my name put to it.

I wondered if you could edit/correct it for me please?

[acrasial]

Originally Posted by EndGame

Look at your reply to Jim.W. Where you have quoted what he has written, it says my name instead of his, and since I don't agree with everything that was said, I would rather not have my name put to it.

I wondered if you could edit/correct it for me please?

Oh wow, I am sorry, didn't mean to do that- please excuse me on that... !!!! what a dooozie!!

Will do! I think what happened, was I had previously copied your name- from quoting you and replying to you- and forgot to copy HIS name for the quotes in the NEW reply to Jim, and then I ended up pasting that- sorry once again!