Beware: Much of what you think is true...simply isn't!

I don't know, I've certainly had bonuses increase conversions, but I do think it often depends on the specific case--I know of one marketer who claims that, with a certain product, one of his bonuses actually decreased conversions.

Really there's no way you can just say whether or not something like a video or a certain bonus would decrease conversions, without testing it first. Intuition is not the best thing to go on when it comes to your sales page!

As for the "forum method" of writing an ebook, I always have dug a little deeper than that.

(Something worth pointing out is that I have been paid from $150 to several hundred dollars to write an e-book, but even moderately good sales writers get paid at least a couple grand to write the sales page...)

Some of the variables you mention simply depend on the niche. Logic and experience don't always tell us the same thing. That's why it's important to test your results.

Well, in the first case, there IS the problem with the questions/answers. They should be considered, BY one that KNOWS, for ADDING to a book. In most cases, they certainly wouldn't make a book.

In the second case, they should REALLY be used to add to the value of a deal, NOT entice one to buy it. And they should be FULL versions. Some add something that has NOTHING to do with the deal, add better bonuses, etc.... That is NUTS.

BTW:

- video increases conversions

MAYBE, SOMETIMES

- weekends are bad days to email

IN MY CASE, it is BEST!

- US is your best audience

The US USED to be the biggest homogeneous market that was likely to buy. Today, that is less true. Don't think the same ads will work just as well though.

Steve

I've noticed a lot of 'questionable' advise given by marketers regarding things like how easy it is to create a product, etc.

In most cases, I think this is simply pandering to the market.

People find creating their own product daunting? Just show them some easy ways to do it. Never mind how realistic it really is, or the fact the resulting product might be utter garbage.

I think the thing with bonuses as a whole, is many bonuses are just things that have been strapped on to try and add value, but don't actually compliment the original product. So, you see some sites have 20 bonues, but are all completely different.

However, if you had a course which showed how to create a review page, and then the bonus was a set of templates, then this would make sense and likely to increase conversions.

Phil

Alright, let me rephrase my original point slightly as later in the day

I find that when reading ebooks and forums and stuff that a lot of the info and advice is based on conventional wisdom whereas in the real world, often the opposite is true.

Ben Shaffer

My experience in all of this has to be, observe what has worked offline and apply it online. Some times give it a unique online "twist" to sweeten the deal.

Generally when it comes to advice you should do due diligence on some one to see if what they are saying is coming from a "place" of experience.

And furthermore, advice in this market/industry will never be universally true, applicable or helpful. Everyone's experience differs and some techniques work in some circumstances and not in others.

The differing circumstances might be, niche, relationship with list, traffic generation/traffic sources, price points, etc etc.

The only way to see if the advice is good or worth looking into, is to test the advice you have been given. Test, test, test and then test some more, with every aspect of your business.

If you are trying stuff out though, make sure the tests are small-scale and relevant to what you are doing. That is a good way of working out whether something is worth testing as well; establishing whether your circumstances are in anyway similar to the person giving the advice. For example, are your business models or target markets similar?

Anyway, the above is my advice, but before you take it I'd probably run a small test first.

Shouldn't adding on a bonus ALWAYS fill a hole in the product? If you are selling
Dog food that is missing iron heck toss in those cheap iron enriched chewy bones . . .

Bonuses should almost always strengthen the product and cover any obvious holes.

No offence, but is what you are saying actually true or what you have been taught by other IMers? Within your post you have actually contradicted yourself by saying that they should strengthen the product and also that they should fill a hole - two VERY different things. Watch how some marketers have been very successful at offering physcial toys as bonuses and you will see what I mean.

Alright, here's a couple more:

1. Money is in the list
2. Content is King

...only commenting from my own experiences here, but:

1. Money is what you do with your list. I often beat people in IM contests with lists 10 times the size of mine

2. Well, actually not according to Google. For example, duplicate content often ranks better than unique. Could be more accurate to say that Links are King...

Ben Shaffer

There are a lot of strategies within strategies within strategies. As you said, there are many variables and testing is the real way to determine if something works or not.

Having said that, there's still nothing wrong with following a proven strategy. Chances are the first time you follow a particular strategy or technique, it just won't work for you. You then need to tweak it, fine tune it until it works. If it doesn't then there's either a flaw in the system somewhere or it just isn't for you and you need to move on.

But I agree, people throw all kinds advice all over the place. It's difficult to determine what works and what doesn't until you tried it.

Thanks,
Adam

This post was edited because:

Inner editor says -- great post, but really in need of a re-write.

I'm lost, Ben.

I'm referring to the post I wrote that no one can any longer see -- not yours.

Dang, I'm not sure I've been publicly recruited to be on someone's webinar before. I'm clearly missing the subtext as to why...as a listener? as the feature? as someone to throw pies at??? (Inquiring minds* want to know...)

But the post was a bit rambling, built around a story of a client who mis-applied some (generally good) copywriting advice.

Live JoyFully!

Judy

*Technical correction: I can only be self-referential, so really, it is inquiring MIND. Though I've been known to be of two minds before, LOL.

Andy,

You almost did my re-write, LOL. Thanks.

Though I'm not quite the fanatical believer in testing and tracking that you seem to be.

WHY???

Because statistics can be made to lie as easily as words.

In fact, if there are a bunch of people running around here selling IM who are woeful of IM -- the number of people who spout statistics (or even spout "test and track") who have ever met up with a standard deviation, let alone tell you what one is and why it's important -- or why a salesletter that sold 4 out of 100 visitors IS NOT necessarily better than the one that sold 2 out of 100 visitors -- That group in ignorance of these statistical abc's has to be MUCH larger.

While I don't have the statistics (ahem) to prove that ... maybe a little logic will support me.

I'd gather that MOST of the people who purport to "know IM" (ohmi, can we come up with linguistic violations here...yes, in spades... but let's not get too sidetracked.) who, in fact do NOT know IM also belong to the group that don't know their statistical abc's. (Whether they pretend to, or not. They would only pretend to, of course, because someone undoubtedly told them it was important. And stuck it in their pipe with those other unproved assumptions.)

Then, we add in the group of people who know IM, but still do not know the important stuff to know about statistics.

So -- telling people to test and track when they still need training wheels to do algebra will not do them much good. The testing and tracking simply will not do them any good (or anyone any good -- except to distract competitors, LOL.) if they don't know how to use these incredibly valuable tools.

Actually, what I was thinking was -- if someone said it takes an average of 7 encounters before a sale is made (and we could meta-model "encounters" to death....), I could probably design a situation that would "PROVE" that. Or, given any other target number.

(Isn't that what banks and house appraisers used to do? "Here's the price we want to sell this house for. Now please go gather the information to "prove" it.)

In closing, it's said that even the best copywriters write bombs but can't tell you why. Suggesting that such knowledge is not knowable. Well, maybe -- in it's present form. But when we learn to ask the right questions, and apply the right discipline, we can probably come up with some fairly good ideas -- that, in the truest goal of science, provides us with information whereby we can reasonably repeat the same results.

The world is filled with too many sound-bites and too little nuance.

And rarely do we even wonder what is the "nuance" (s) that are needed for it to be effective with any given person.

ahhhh.

Of course, another comment I have is ... we generally need to stand on others' shoulders -- we can't go around starting from scratch and trying to prove EVERYTHING we've been told. Ain't enuf time -- while doing so, the savvier marketer is eating our lunch while we track down to prove that thing which we were told which only provides us with 20% of our sales.

Spot on Andy. Said it better than me

I think that the reason I made a post was because I was watching a video from a well known and respected guru and he said something that is kind of 'accepted' as being true in the IM world, but in fact is more than likely not true.

Here's another one...

- Always test.

However, for many many people they just don't get enough sales to get any significant numbers especially if doing multivariate testing. Also, there are different types of traffic which make some previous results not reflect the new traffic. For example, I see totally different results when dealing with 'blind' PPC traffic rather than affiliate traffic.

Keeping it real in an unreal world,

Ben Shaffer

I used to think the US was the main market, so I streamlined everything I wrote to be US English, but now the market between the other English speaking markets

UK, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa are pretty equal to it

Will Rogers once said, "It's not what people don't know that hurts them. It's what they do know that just ain't so."

Dang Ben, I WAS looking for a conspiracy here and I see all you want are the hard facts--I'm disappointed :p.

Let's look at the IM niche. I think there are two non-intersecting groups of potential buyers in that niche. There are the newbies, who often are swayed by 10-20 PLR bonus items, who are looking for a hands-off, push button way to make money online. (Which doesn't exist.) Yes, I think lots of bonuses may convince members of this group to make a purchase.

There is also a distinctly different group which is comprised of individuals with existing IM skills who are looking to obtain specific info on how to fine tune their methods. These people are making money online already, they just want to make more. These people are not likely to be convinced to make a purchase by piling bonuses on unless those bonuses do, in fact, fill a hole in the product.

I think it's a matter of understanding which group of people you are dealing with and them providing them with targeted bonuses if needed.