Mooooore Refunds? Yippee Ya Yay! Anyone else?

[Stefan Vee]

As a Clickbank vendor, I am experiencing more refunds lately.
I recently had my first chargeback as well (first in 4 years)

I am NOT asking for tips on how to avoid refunds and chargebacks.
No, I am NOT ...

I am NOT asking for possible reasons.
No, I am NOT ...

I am just curious if other warriors - affiliates and/or vendors - are experiencing the same thing.

I appreciate your input. Thanks!

[Josef_Benjamin]

Want my advice?

here's some:

Get over it.

Consider you didn't have a refund in 4 years, be grateful for this and you
might have less.

[Daniel Brock]

The way I look at it is, anyone who asks for a refund is probably not going to use your product anyway.

Anytime someone gets something for free it kind of takes away their will to act on what was given to them. In their mind they instantly devalue your product so they won't put much effort into doing whatever it is you suggest.

And if they do act on it...you can bet it will be a half ass attempt.

Refunds happen - and they do suck, that's for sure. It's just a cost of business IMO.

[howdo-i]

Originally Posted by Stefan Vee

As a Clickbank vendor, I am experiencing more refunds lately.
I recently had my first chargeback as well (first in 4 years)

I am NOT asking for tips on how to avoid refunds and chargebacks.
No, I am NOT ...

I am NOT asking for possible reasons.
No, I am NOT ...

I am just curious if other warriors - affiliates and/or vendors - are experiencing the same thing.

I appreciate your input. Thanks!

As an affiliate I had noticed this too. In fact my sales trends right now are very similar to what they were last September/October. Last year I put it down to the meltdown of the banks but now I'm thinking that it could be something more seasonal.

Steve

[Stefan Vee]

Is this a "taboo question"?

[scrofford]

Originally Posted by Josef_Benjamin

Want my advice?

here's some:

Get over it.

Consider you didn't have a refund in 4 years, be grateful for this and you
might have less.

He said he didn't want your advice. He just wanted to know if other vendors were having the same thing happen to them.

[fthomas137]

No Stefan, but an increase on refunds could be a couple of things. If your products are really good and priced right, your refund rates will be held at a minimum. But you will still encounter refunds but it's the price of doing more business.

Always review what you are giving the people who buy from you. Give them as much value as you think that they need and they will quickly feel secure in their purchases from you and probably not seek a refund. But some individuals are out for free information and they will seek a refund regardless.

Welcome to online marketing!

An option is to sell these items privately on your own site and provide a very long term return period, like 365 days. Give an individual more then 3 months to return it, and they will normally not return it. Unless again, you are selling a stinker product or not.

Sounds weird, but it works good.

Frank.

[garyv]

Originally Posted by Stefan Vee

Is this a "taboo question"?

Not at all. The real reason you're noticing more refunds, is because clickbank has made it much easier to obtain them. With their new ticketing system, they've also added more prominent refund links. Because clickbank is so diverse with their products, they have to basically shove those refund links in your face, to try and prevent chargebacks. Too many chargebacks and it could cost them their own merchant accounts.

To prevent chargebacks, clickbank is working it from both sides. They are making an effort to clean out the crappy products, and they are making it easier to get a refund.

So now what you have to do is to make every effort that you can to prevent customers from asking for them. ie - give them what they want, and tweak your process according to their praises and complaints. That's all you can do.

[Raydal]

I'm not a big Clickbank seller, but I do know for sure
that for some reason, the same product sold through Paypal
gets 95% less refund requests than for Clickbank.

Listing a Clickbank product is like inviting refund requests.

I wish I knew why.

-Ray Edwards

[RGallowitz]

I just logged into my account and went through all my reports. Haven't had a refund in a year. If it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't have went to go take a peak.

I'm proud ;-)
Overdeliver is key.

[ccmusicman]

Oh Clickbank...such a love/hate relationship.

It's been said further up, but it's basically because clickbank emails the customer saying something link:

"Do you want a refund? Click here to get it!"

Not in those words...but they might as well be.

Rob

Originally Posted by Raydal

I'm not a big Clickbank seller, but I do know for sure
that for some reason, the same product sold through Paypal
gets 95% less refund requests than for Clickbank.

Listing a Clickbank product is like inviting refund requests.

I wish I knew why.

-Ray Edwards

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by Josef_Benjamin

Want my advice?

here's some:

Get over it.

Consider you didn't have a refund in 4 years, be grateful for this and you
might have less.

I think she may have been looking for something more helpful than "Get Over It." Most people who are having an increase in refunds want to know why rather than just get over it. You can't come up with a solution if you don't know what the problem is.

In my opinion, Clickbank makes refunds so easy and it's pretty well known by many how easy they are to get, that it is ideal for rip-off artists to get products for free. I don't have a high refund rate selling my own products outside of Clickbank ... in fact, I barely have any at all.

[Bill_Z]

I haven't seen any increases lately at all, actually they have been quite low. What I do love though, is for subscription services, if the customer opens a ticket with CB the "Refund" button is automatically selected instead of "Cancel". I love that...

[Kay King]

Pardon me for saying so, but this is a
completely useless comment on this
thread.

And how is your personal experience that had nothing to do with clickbank more relevant than the comment you blasted?

I've heard several marketers complain that previously low refund products on CB were now getting regular refund requests. Someone who says "get over it" probably doesn't sell with CB.

CB makes it easy to get refunds - and there is a flood of people going online in an attempt to make money because of the high unemployment rate and economy. This isn't going to slow down any time soon.

Put the two together - and you have an increase in refunds. I doubt there's anything that can be done except to stop using clickbank....at least stop promoting "make money" and "IM" clickbank products.

In niches outside the "work online" area, my experience is refunds are much lower even on CB.

kay

[reapr]

I am not a vendor just a seller. I have noted that overall I have seen a slight increase in refunds over the last 6 months overall for most products.

[Matt M]

Originally Posted by Stefan Vee

I am NOT asking for tips on how to avoid refunds and chargebacks.
No, I am NOT ...

I am NOT asking for possible reasons.
No, I am NOT ...

I am just curious if other warriors - affiliates and/or vendors - are experiencing the same thing.

No, I am NOT.

[Brad Gosse]

I had a higher than normal refund request volume this weekend. Could be the beginning of the month financial issues, people broke after paying the rent.

[Steve Peters Benn]

Hi Stefan,

You will notice certain refunds come in waves. They are usually from two distinct groups:

people who are at the beginning / end of a pay cycle

pirates who have been discussing your product.

Then you have the nice legit people, who for whatever reason your product didn't suit - and that is totally normal and you should treat this people very well.

[ed41143]

Stefan, no it is not taboo, it is just frustrating for some to deal with.

Stefan, with the economy in the shape it is in and will most likely get much worse before it gets better, you can expect to see an increase in refund request, although CB is so easy to get a refund through, that anyone with any reason whatsoever, and not just because your product may or may not have issues, now are asking for refunds.

And yes, it is also a part of the online business model, so it is something that you will need to become accustomed to, but it is always a good idea to take a closer look at your product to see if there are things that you can do to either improve or upgrade your product to make it better or to make them an overall better offer.

Hope this helps.
Ed

[Stefan Vee]

Thank you all!
As I start to understand it, this phenomenon is related to the recession and the beginning/end of the month issues. (People don't know how to pay the bills, so they remember they made a purchase that went with a 60 day no-question asked refund and apply for it).
For those of you who don't see any increase in refunds at all, I was in your shoes about 2 months ago (and "Yes", just like you, I do over-deliver and I do provide some excellent quality products). This "refund surge" is a sign of the hard times, make no mistake about it!

[FrankRumbauskas]

I haven't found an increase recently as much as I've noticed that refund rates have slowly crept up in the almost 7 years I've been marketing online (even though my products have IMPROVED in that time). The "get something for nothing" mentality is spreading and you'll have more people looking to rip you off. Just the way it is.

[warriortx]

Originally Posted by garyv

Not at all. The real reason you're noticing more refunds, is because clickbank has made it much easier to obtain them. With their new ticketing system, they've also added more prominent refund links. Because clickbank is so diverse with their products, they have to basically shove those refund links in your face, to try and prevent chargebacks. Too many chargebacks and it could cost them their own merchant accounts.

To prevent chargebacks, clickbank is working it from both sides. They are making an effort to clean out the crappy products, and they are making it easier to get a refund.

So now what you have to do is to make every effort that you can to prevent customers from asking for them. ie - give them what they want, and tweak your process according to their praises and complaints. That's all you can do.

This is the best explanation.

[bretski]

I have to say that I have noticed an increase in refunds over just the past 3-4 weeks. Also sales have dropped for me. Traffic has increased steadily as it has done as I grow my business so I don't know if it's just that the increase in traffic and sales that I saw over the past couple of months is just catching up with me and now some of the refunds from when my business just started to grow are hitting. I just wish that sales would pick back up. It would make it all seem worthwhile but today, with the rain and gloomy weather here, I'm just a bit bummed and having a hard time getting motivated to do anything. Don't want to write or plan. It just seems sort of fruitless when sales are down in spite of more hops being up and traffic being up, but when I get a sale and look later at transactions and see a refund from a product sold two months ago that wipes it all out and puts me in the hole for the day. It just gets me bummed out. I hope it passes...

[la dominatrix]

Originally Posted by Raydal

I'm not a big Clickbank seller, but I do know for sure
that for some reason, the same product sold through Paypal
gets 95% less refund requests than for Clickbank.

Listing a Clickbank product is like inviting refund requests.

I wish I knew why.

-Ray Edwards

Is it harder to get a refund from Paypal? Just a question I have never doen it so have no idea
but there ahs to be real reason it can't be coincidence
La Dominatrix

[FriendlyRob]

This is what makes our business the best business. Its not like a store where if someone buys a product, uses it, doesn't like it, then returns it.

Now you have a used product, the packaging is probably damaged, that you cannot resell.

Unless you are Walmart or Costco or someone like that, you can't return it to your vendor so you are stuck with this product that you paid for and can't do anything with.

On the other hand, if I sell an ebook and someone wants a refund, thats fine, I can still sell a hundred more. The only thing I paid for are the graphics, hosting, etc but I would have paid that anyway.

I think I'm saying, just realize that it doesn't matter. Without a liberal refund policy, you would probably not have made as many sales anyway.

[bretski]

Originally Posted by FriendlyRob

This is what makes our business the best business. Its not like a store where if someone buys a product, uses it, doesn't like it, then returns it.

Now you have a used product, the packaging is probably damaged, that you cannot resell.

Unless you are Walmart or Costco or someone like that, you can't return it to your vendor so you are stuck with this product that you paid for and can't do anything with.

On the other hand, if I sell an ebook and someone wants a refund, thats fine, I can still sell a hundred more. The only thing I paid for are the graphics, hosting, etc but I would have paid that anyway.

I think I'm saying, just realize that it doesn't matter. Without a liberal refund policy, you would probably not have made as many sales anyway.

Thank you Rob Thanks for putting things in perspective for me today. I'll keep chugging along and be grateful for the sales that I do make and relax and enjoy the ride. Thank you again. Really!

[nuneybopper]

I used to never get refunds but on one product I promoted recently, I had to give about 3 - losing me near $300. Ironically enough, each person gave the same reason, and it wasn't a "lazy" one.

[FriendlyRob]

Originally Posted by Raydal

I'm not a big Clickbank seller, but I do know for sure
that for some reason, the same product sold through Paypal
gets 95% less refund requests than for Clickbank.

Listing a Clickbank product is like inviting refund requests.

I wish I knew why.

-Ray Edwards

Thanks for giving us something to consider.

[Harvey.Segal]

Originally Posted by ccmusicman

It's been said further up, but it's basically because clickbank emails the customer saying something link:

"Do you want a refund? Click here to get it!"

Not in those words...but they might as well be.

That's not quite true.

The customer email says

"To make a customer service inquiry with regard to this purchase, please visit ..."

So you will ONLY see the refund option if
- you have decided you want a refund
- you are making an inquiry such as seeking technical support

which eliminates the vast majority of customers.


When you click on that link you go to a page with details of
the order and a link "Click here to get support".

The support page contains two main options
- Tech Support Request
- Refund Request

So the Refund option is obviously very visible and I would
have thought it better to have it as a sub option (in the
drop down menu) of the Tech Support Request.

I would guess therefore that any increase in refunds is due
to customers who seek technical support (such as a problem
in downloading) and then see the Refund option.


Harvey

[wcoq]

you mean you actually make money with clickbank?! lol jk. I think one tool that adds a lot of revenue to this is twitter. Glad to hear things are doing well.

[TelegramSam]

Some G u r u 's say that if you are not getting a refund rate of 5 to 10 % then you are not pushing hard enough.

I'm not sure I completely agree but I understand what they mean.

One could have a high refund rate because the product is poor or not good enough value.

At the other extreme, one could have zero refunds, because there had been very few sales.

Sam