Am I A Dumb Ass...Or What?

by Jeremy Kelsall 69 replies
It seems like everyone wants to not have a "job" - Get away from the rat race and be independent and free...YEAH, THAT'S THE TICKET, right?

Well, about a year and a half ago, I was able to do just that. I quit my job and would never again have a JOB - Or so I thought...

Fast forward 18 months and it appears that I'm RUNNING right back to what I left lol

I've been working for home as has my partner Don and we have done very well for ourselves. Enough so that our online income supports a total of 12 people directly.

BUT

It appears that we are going to have to get a bit more organized which means an office in New York as well as an office here in Delaware as well with at least one employee in each office - DOH!

I was thinking about it...and isn't that exactly what I was trying to get away from?

What is YOUR take on that?

If given the choice will you grow your business to the point of HAVING to have employees or would you be content to just get to a certain point and call it a day?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #assor #dumb
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
    Ha, ha, ha...

    That's IS the IRONY!

    We get into Internet Marketing so that we can get out of the office.

    Then, in order to grow the IM business, we need to get an office!

    Did someone say that Internet Marketing is just another model of business?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258012].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258028].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        I've always been my own boss for the most part - At least for the last 8 years or so anyway...

        I've always been in commissioned sales which basically meant as long as I was doing numbers, I got to do whatever the hell I wanted

        We have several VA's etc that do various tasks for us, but as the tasks get more important and the projects get larger, we don't really want to rely on someone thousands of miles away. With some of the things we are into now and some things that we are getting into it is our reputation on the line. So, the only way to be 100% certain that things get done the way we want is to either do them ourselves or to be able to have direct interaction with someone else who does it.

        We don't really care about the "expenses" for employees or office space. For me, it is just a "game changer" in the sense that I won't be able to watch Entourage and the news all day lol I will actually have to get up, unlock and office, and make sure someone is on task.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258046].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

          We don't really care about the "expenses" for employees or office space. For me, it is just a "game changer" in the sense that I won't be able to watch Entourage and the news all day lol I will actually have to get up, unlock and office, and make sure someone is on task.
          Dude, put a lazy boy and a flat screen in your office and a lock on the door. Hit the intercom every so often for updates.
          Signature
          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258124].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
            Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

            Dude, put a lazy boy and a flat screen in your office and a lock on the door. Hit the intercom every so often for updates.

            Oh man I LOL'd big time when I read this!
            Signature
            SEO Training. $20 a month, first month free. Cancel anytime.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258198].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ECoughlin
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        It's far different to be the boss than it is to be the employee, Jeremy. You still get to set your own schedule and there is nothing saying you can't continue to work mostly from home and let your employee(s) handle the office.

        Isn't having a boss what we were all trying to get away from?

        Tina
        Just what I was thinking!
        Signature
        Hey, my name is Eunice.
        I've been an Internet Marketer since 2005.
        If you want to, you can connect with me on Facebook and Twitter. :-)
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258285].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pheonix44
    All you would be doing is adding another expense which you may not need to. I can understand it though because it makes you look more credible and you'll be able to do more things offline. But if you have the income to back yourself up I see no problem with it, you'll be able to have seminars locally or even travel around the country doing it once people see you have a brick mortar business they can see. What do you think?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258017].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    I'm kind of in the same boat Jeremy. I have been working at home full time for seven years now and am going absolutely stir crazy as a result. I miss the daily interaction with staff and all the hustle and activity that goes along with running an office with employees. Sigh...I just want to feel needed again.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258031].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Gee I wish I had your problem Jeremy.
    Signature
    SEO Training. $20 a month, first month free. Cancel anytime.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258035].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kevinfar
    It's a bit ironic, because you run away from an office and now you it's strange getting back in there.

    However, being your own boss is going to make all of the difference in my opinion.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258047].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cadoutsource
    Mr. Kelsall,
    I guess it's really how you look at it. I admire your business acumen and courage. I believe what the real difference is that when you had your job 1-1/2 years ago you were not in control of that situation. Now you have the chose not only to improve your salary, improve other peoples lives thru employment, but you also have the luxury of showing up to the office when you get ready to. That's what make America great. After having working for someone else for over twenty years this recession has taught me that the only things you can rely on is God and yourself not someone else's money making endeavor.


    Keep up the good work!
    Signature
    May Success Overtake You!
    My smartphone Pays Me
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258056].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Jeremy, if you dont mind me asking mate, I have two questions.

    1. What business model do you follow? Selling infoproducts? Consulting? Marketing?
    2. How many years passed before you started seeing any real sort of income materialise from your efforts?

    Thanks.
    Signature
    SEO Training. $20 a month, first month free. Cancel anytime.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258066].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Jeremy, if you dont mind me asking mate, I have two questions.

      1. What business model do you follow? Selling infoproducts? Consulting? Marketing?
      2. How many years passed before you started seeing any real sort of income materialise from your efforts?

      Thanks.

      When I first started out my only business model was Article Marketing (some would say that isn't a model) Now, we sell info products in at least 5 different niches, do some coaching, some offline stuff, SEO work, some small consulting jobs with a few local companies etc...

      Many would say that I got "lucky" I was actually making 2K a month within 45 days of even hearing about internet Marketing.

      After I made my first dollar online - I knew I could make as much money as I wanted. All I had to do is see the first sale and it was game over for me.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258083].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pheonix44
    So does this means you're going to incorporate?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258076].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Thanks Jeremy. I appreciate your response.

    One last question If I may - do you focus on higher end products as opposed to $17 ebooks now, and if so, was that your intial strategy when first starting out?

    As for the office - be sure to put a pinball machine and a table tennis table in there - will make it more fun
    Signature
    SEO Training. $20 a month, first month free. Cancel anytime.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258092].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      Thanks Jeremy. I appreciate your response.

      One last question If I may - do you focus on higher end products as opposed to $17 ebooks now, and if so, was that your intial strategy when first starting out?

      As for the office - be sure to put a pinball machine and a table tennis table in there - will make it more fun
      Other than our own "services" I would say that most of the other products that we sell are on the low/medium end of the price spectrum. Your typical e-book/software type products with average payouts etc...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258104].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I don't think I would want to be "big" enough to need an outside office. I don't miss the interaction with staff, etc. I like wandering from my bedroom and plopping down in my computer chair and starting to work when I want to and leaving it when I want to. I don't really think I want other people depending on my success either, such as staff. I can outsource what I need to outsource without having to pay them and keep them productive forever.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258118].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I don't think I would want to be "big" enough to need an outside office. I don't miss the interaction with staff, etc. I like wandering from my bedroom and plopping down in my computer chair and starting to work when I want to and leaving it when I want to. I don't really think I want other people depending on my success either, such as staff. I can outsource what I need to outsource without having to pay them and keep them productive forever.
      YUP!

      I love being at home. I get to play with my 4 year old all day long, watch entourage, maury, and Jerry Springer!

      For us, it is kind of decision time though...

      When I first started, I thought I would be more than happy just to make one sale a day. Then, I would be happy to make 30K a year - 6 months later, I would have been happy to make 100K a year...But, now it has kind of taken a life of its own, which means that we have 2 choices.

      1. Be happy with our current level of income
      2. Or grow

      In the end, I have to grow. I have the opportunity to have something to leave to my children. If everything goes right...who knows, maybe they will never have a boss?

      So, I've come to the conclusion that it would be selfish of me to be content and stay still.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258139].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Andie
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        YUP!

        I love being at home. I get to play with my 4 year old all day long, watch entourage, maury, and Jerry Springer!

        For us, it is kind of decision time though...

        When I first started, I thought I would be more than happy just to make one sale a day. Then, I would be happy to make 30K a year - 6 months later, I would have been happy to make 100K a year...But, now it has kind of taken a life of its own, which means that we have 2 choices.

        1. Be happy with our current level of income
        2. Or grow

        In the end, I have to grow. I have the opportunity to have something to leave to my children. If everything goes right...who knows, maybe they will never have a boss?

        So, I've come to the conclusion that it would be selfish of me to be content and stay still.
        Option #3:
        3. Be happy and Grow

        Where there is a will - there is a way, right?
        Surely, there is someone who'd be HAPPY to go unlock the doors and supervise the 'lesser' chores....time to find a trustworthy manager to manage the required 'mortar' biz (which has your LZBoy and flatscreen of course) and you can be the Omni-present "Charlie" on the phone, let them deliver reports to you and only go in a day or two a week once you know they are doing things and taking care of biz.

        I feel myself turning green....so excuse me a moment..
        A
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258185].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sanjid112
        Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

        YUP!

        I love being at home. I get to play with my 4 year old all day long, watch entourage, maury, and Jerry Springer!

        For us, it is kind of decision time though...

        When I first started, I thought I would be more than happy just to make one sale a day. Then, I would be happy to make 30K a year - 6 months later, I would have been happy to make 100K a year...But, now it has kind of taken a life of its own, which means that we have 2 choices.

        1. Be happy with our current level of income
        2. Or grow

        In the end, I have to grow. I have the opportunity to have something to leave to my children. If everything goes right...who knows, maybe they will never have a boss?

        So, I've come to the conclusion that it would be selfish of me to be content and stay still.
        Well, you have already answered your own question, what you hate is being in the office, because that made you like in jail. Correct me if I wrong.

        But, like you said, I love that you point it, you would be a selfish man, to stay still. In my opinion, everyone must be grow and grow because that proved we are alive. From a baby we grow as a kid, from a kid, we grow as a teenager, as a teen we grow as an adult. We always growing.

        So, never feel like your title above :p
        mmm, one last suggestion, to avoid something unpleasant here, just change your title, would you?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259527].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author dilynn3
        How long did it take you to get where you are now? Just curious! We had our own business with thousands of $$ of overhead, I now make 6 figures, have flexability with hrs. and very low overhead and ..........time with my family. I totally get where you are though. Pray for guidance and you will feel genuine peace about whatever you decide. Worst case scenerio, you go back to do what you are doing now and being even more successful.

        Best wishes to you and your family!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259557].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author darrin_cooper
    Maybe in reality what you really hated about the "JOB" wasn't the "RAT RACE"
    but you hated the part of "Answering To Someone Else".

    I think there are certain "negative" aspects of the concept of a JOB:
    1. Working 40 + hours per week
    2. Lack of Free Time
    3. Answering To Someone else

    When you have your own business, or even start one, there is the misconception (that everyone tries to sell) that it's going to be easy, and you will have freedom & you can work when you want too.

    Well, it's the biggest BS that is pushed on to entrepreneurs. It's important to know that entrepreneurs MUST work harder, more ingenious, more creatively than they were at their own company. Also, to many, WORKING for yourself, after leaving their "JOB" is probably the first time they actually REALLY did some work. We all know that on the "JOB" it's not like you are always focused on just the job......c'mon get real.

    When you work for yourself, and you allow yourself to have a certain vision, the only thing you can do is achieve that. Once that first vision is achieved, you create another one, & another one. This is why most entrepreneurs usually end up becoming serial entrepreneurs because it's NOT about the Hours, it's really about the fact that you can generate income & don't have to "Answer To Anyone."

    Just think, on the job, someone is always asking & saying, "Why you late?", "Why wasn't this done on time?", "I was expecting better from you,", "You report to me",
    "Have you met the deadlines?", "We have a meeting on this date," etc etc.

    In owning your own business, it's not about the hours.......it's about answering to no one.
    Signature
    Material Galz - Drinking Milkshakes so you don't have to. | What's The Blog Circus? | Make Money For Halloween | $44 Custom Mini-Sites
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258122].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
      Originally Posted by darrin_cooper View Post

      We all know that on the "JOB" it's not like you are always focused on just the job......c'mon get real.
      Not to address anything else in your post but... this isn't true for everyone-- maybe you.

      When I went to work in corporate America, I was always focused on my job unless I was on a break.

      I am old school. I believe in going to work to work, not to socialize. I never had friends at work because they weren't the type of people I would befriend outside of work... I wasn't going to be friends with them simply because we worked at the same place. Talk about a shallow relationship.

      But yes, some of us were focused on working. I give people what I would want people to give me AND what I give myself as I work for myself. Frankly, I probably give myself LESS... as I check foxnews.com way too much
      Signature
      My niche is feeding my family... What's yours?
      http://www.DoOrDieMarketing.com
      Watch Us as We Do It Or D.IE... Are you Along For The Ride
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258719].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author darrin_cooper
        I don't think I stated "everyone", but yes, you do have a point, it's not true for everyone, however, I guarantee a extremely high majority of people across multiple industries.

        And YES, absolutely, I can admit & attest that I was one of them.

        HOWEVER,
        I used to be like you in corporate America, working my ass off, getting their early, staying late, ensuring ALL my work was on time.
        But let me tell you something for all that hard work......
        I did what was expected & overachieved, got unbelievable performance reviews.....
        What was the result? Slow promotions, increases in pay that was less than the yearly U.S. inflation rate, working for people who had less leadership & managerial skills than myself, working for people with less education than myself.....
        So, once I personally realized that the Work Hard, Focus On Work, Do A Great Job & You will receive success mentality was a bunch of B.S.... Why? Because I started researching a certain trend & my analysis came out correct.
        Therefore, I started doing less, caring less, doing things the way I wanted to do them....
        Suddenly, in "corporate America", I was advanced faster, was getting $10,000 style raises, at one point twice a year, being asked by executives to work for them, etc, was given what was "construed as more responsibility" -- but to me was easy & mind numbing work, & I took it all on & kept with a new look on corporate America.

        Then it comes to a point where what you realize, what you are doing, you can do for yourself, all the skills you have, you can triple what your value is. And if you can package all that up & provide it as a service & product, you can instantly become successful.....

        So, this may all be relative, I don't know, but in my experience that's what I saw & felt.

        By The Way --- FoxNews can be extremely depressing & so negative.
        Try CNN, & HLN, or even Lifetime.....You may then want to give "MORE" to yourself aftewards......


        Originally Posted by digidoodles View Post

        Not to address anything else in your post but... this isn't true for everyone-- maybe you.

        When I went to work in corporate America, I was always focused on my job unless I was on a break.

        I am old school. I believe in going to work to work, not to socialize. I never had friends at work because they weren't the type of people I would befriend outside of work... I wasn't going to be friends with them simply because we worked at the same place. Talk about a shallow relationship.

        But yes, some of us were focused on working. I give people what I would want people to give me AND what I give myself as I work for myself. Frankly, I probably give myself LESS... as I check foxnews.com way too much
        Signature
        Material Galz - Drinking Milkshakes so you don't have to. | What's The Blog Circus? | Make Money For Halloween | $44 Custom Mini-Sites
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259063].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author digidoodles
          Just a point of clarification:

          I didn't stay at work late. I didn't have to. I was far too productive and my CEO's had to create work for me to keep me busy.

          I never came into work early. Ever. And I never would.

          Honest days work didn't mean I played office politics. I'm not a butt-kisser. Ev.Er. It's just not in me and sickens me to the core of my being to see others kissing up. I detest it. I think I detest it as much as I detest dishonest. But, really, they are one in the same. So... makes sense.

          I was and still am me. I'm not going to go out of my way to get you to like me. Either you do, or you don't. And, if you don't, that's your loss

          Ok, I digress... I hope to never have to be in the position to work outside of the home ever, ever, ever, ever (did I mention EVER) again. Be it boss or employee or freelancer or whatever.

          So, my vote is this, Jeremy. Live with what you have. It's already far more than what you dreamed, right? There's always something bigger and better and newer and faster and and and and and. Because after this, there will be something else. It's never ending and self-perpetuating.

          I like Steve's way of life here on earth. Contentment.

          Oh, and re: the news. I prefer honesty. I am an extreme right wing, very proud to be a conservative, no apologies ever. I'll take my FoxNews over any of that other stuff you listed, any day, thanks

          I have 5 children, the best children on the planet. I don't need anything else in the universe. They are my life, the reason I breathe and the utmost joy and utter frustration, all combined in one. They are my selfish gift to myself, every second of my day.

          Originally Posted by darrin_cooper View Post

          I don't think I stated "everyone", but yes, you do have a point, it's not true for everyone, however, I guarantee a extremely high majority of people across multiple industries.

          And YES, absolutely, I can admit & attest that I was one of them.

          HOWEVER,
          I used to be like you in corporate America, working my ass off, getting their early, staying late, ensuring ALL my work was on time.
          But let me tell you something for all that hard work......
          I did what was expected & overachieved, got unbelievable performance reviews.....
          What was the result? Slow promotions, increases in pay that was less than the yearly U.S. inflation rate, working for people who had less leadership & managerial skills than myself, working for people with less education than myself.....
          So, once I personally realized that the Work Hard, Focus On Work, Do A Great Job & You will receive success mentality was a bunch of B.S.... Why? Because I started researching a certain trend & my analysis came out correct.
          Therefore, I started doing less, caring less, doing things the way I wanted to do them....
          Suddenly, in "corporate America", I was advanced faster, was getting $10,000 style raises, at one point twice a year, being asked by executives to work for them, etc, was given what was "construed as more responsibility" -- but to me was easy & mind numbing work, & I took it all on & kept with a new look on corporate America.

          Then it comes to a point where what you realize, what you are doing, you can do for yourself, all the skills you have, you can triple what your value is. And if you can package all that up & provide it as a service & product, you can instantly become successful.....

          So, this may all be relative, I don't know, but in my experience that's what I saw & felt.

          By The Way --- FoxNews can be extremely depressing & so negative.
          Try CNN, & HLN, or even Lifetime.....You may then want to give "MORE" to yourself aftewards......
          Signature
          My niche is feeding my family... What's yours?
          http://www.DoOrDieMarketing.com
          Watch Us as We Do It Or D.IE... Are you Along For The Ride
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1260216].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author darrin_cooper
            Yeah, I hear ya. I'm glad your content.

            And.....in regards to you being "right wing".....I can definitely tell....lol
            Originally Posted by digidoodles View Post

            re: the news. I prefer honesty. I am an extreme right wing, very proud to be a conservative, no apologies ever. I'll take my FoxNews over any of that other stuff you listed, any day, thanks

            Originally Posted by digidoodles View Post

            Just a point of clarification:

            I didn't stay at work late. I didn't have to. I was far too productive and my CEO's had to create work for me to keep me busy.

            I never came into work early. Ever. And I never would.

            Honest days work didn't mean I played office politics. I'm not a butt-kisser. Ev.Er. It's just not in me and sickens me to the core of my being to see others kissing up. I detest it. I think I detest it as much as I detest dishonest. But, really, they are one in the same. So... makes sense.

            I was and still am me. I'm not going to go out of my way to get you to like me. Either you do, or you don't. And, if you don't, that's your loss

            Ok, I digress... I hope to never have to be in the position to work outside of the home ever, ever, ever, ever (did I mention EVER) again. Be it boss or employee or freelancer or whatever.

            So, my vote is this, Jeremy. Live with what you have. It's already far more than what you dreamed, right? There's always something bigger and better and newer and faster and and and and and. Because after this, there will be something else. It's never ending and self-perpetuating.

            I like Steve's way of life here on earth. Contentment.

            Oh, and re: the news. I prefer honesty. I am an extreme right wing, very proud to be a conservative, no apologies ever. I'll take my FoxNews over any of that other stuff you listed, any day, thanks

            I have 5 children, the best children on the planet. I don't need anything else in the universe. They are my life, the reason I breathe and the utmost joy and utter frustration, all combined in one. They are my selfish gift to myself, every second of my day.
            Signature
            Material Galz - Drinking Milkshakes so you don't have to. | What's The Blog Circus? | Make Money For Halloween | $44 Custom Mini-Sites
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1263668].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Neromancer
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    It seems like everyone wants to not have a "job" - Get away from the rat race and be independent and free...YEAH, THAT'S THE TICKET, right?

    Well, about a year and a half ago, I was able to do just that. I quit my job and would never again have a JOB - Or so I thought...

    Fast forward 18 months and it appears that I'm RUNNING right back to what I left lol

    I've been working for home as has my partner Don and we have done very well for ourselves. Enough so that our online income supports a total of 12 people directly.

    BUT

    It appears that we are going to have to get a bit more organized which means an office in New York as well as an office here in Delaware as well with at least one employee in each office - DOH!

    I was thinking about it...and isn't that exactly what I was trying to get away from?

    What is YOUR take on that?

    If given the choice will you grow your business to the point of HAVING to have employees or would you be content to just get to a certain point and call it a day?
    Sounds like the dichotomy of IM'ers to me, Jeremy - you are one of the top producers here in this forum -I look to you and others to lead and if you think that having an office is a good thing well always remember that you built your way out of a job and into an empire
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258156].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Vital Video
    If your doing what you want to do, and gather fulfillment from how you spend the hours of the day, then who cares what you call it.
    Though if your gut is telling you that your work is dragging you into a confinement that your not comfortable, then heed your gut. Take it from me..... your gut is there for a reason.

    I've learned that the whole "work from home" thing is not all its made out to be. Sometimes its nice to be out and about amongst the mortals (though having a boss sucks!)
    Signature
    Offline Marketers..

    Finally, an affordable and easy way to get a website made for your offline clients...

    Limited Time..Free Youtube video with every website!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258159].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author turbohips
    One thing that I found valuable is the simple fact that being around others have sometimes sparked great ideas from things that they say without realizing. For example you can find out a lot of why things are selling or not selling by listening to your sales staff when they are on the phone. Collect all the good and bad things heard. Correct the flaws and promote the positive stuff. You'd be amazed as how minor corrections will increase profits and residual income. In another example a fellow co-worker and I were talking about something way off topic but he mentioned something completely unrelated but would work very well as an option for my business. Without that conversation/interaction I would have never thought of the idea. I'm sure you get what I'm talking about.
    Signature

    brit momaday leight
    Larry Leight

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258173].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author blogginvixen
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    It seems like everyone wants to not have a "job" - Get away from the rat race and be independent and free...YEAH, THAT'S THE TICKET, right?

    Well, about a year and a half ago, I was able to do just that. I quit my job and would never again have a JOB - Or so I thought...

    Fast forward 18 months and it appears that I'm RUNNING right back to what I left lol

    I've been working for home as has my partner Don and we have done very well for ourselves. Enough so that our online income supports a total of 12 people directly.

    BUT

    It appears that we are going to have to get a bit more organized which means an office in New York as well as an office here in Delaware as well with at least one employee in each office - DOH!

    I was thinking about it...and isn't that exactly what I was trying to get away from?

    What is YOUR take on that?

    If given the choice will you grow your business to the point of HAVING to have employees or would you be content to just get to a certain point and call it a day?
    I feel this way E V E R Y D A Y!! ...and I'm not even operating on a large scale as more popular IM gurus.

    This is exactly why I'll never buy into the concept of a "4 hour work week." :rolleyes: Working from home requires just as much discipline, time management, and customer service as any brick and mortar job. The only difference is you're not tired to a desk or a nagging boss. (Unless of course you're beating yourself up for not getting something done... )

    Despite its highs and lows, I don't wish to go back to the 9-5 grind, and neither do I wish to get to a point where my operations are so large that I'll need to staff tons of employees/freelancers/etc.

    Instead, I work because I enjoy what I do, and in the meantime, I'm setting up multiple passive income streams so that I can completely remove myself from working altogether. That seems more appealing that a large-scale operation.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258271].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Jeremy,

    The biggest difference is you call the shots this time and you and Don are at the top of the heap

    Plus... you can go as far as you want to take it. Personally, I'm trying to make as much for my business as possible until I get to a certain income goal (money saved in the bank) before I'll consider slowing down.

    Mike Hill

    PS. This is a good problem to have!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258306].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Stop your girly whining, Kelsall! Butch up and do it. Grow a pair. I bet Don isn't "conflicted" about this at all, is he? Nope. I bet right now he's standing behind you mouthing the word "pu**y" at the back of your head.

    John
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258415].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Valorie
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Stop your girly whining, Kelsall! Butch up and do it. Grow a pair. I bet Don isn't "conflicted" about this at all, is he? Nope. I bet right now he's standing behind you mouthing the word "pu**y" at the back of your head.

      John


      Men :rolleyes:




      Here's a little input from the Mom point of view...

      If you sacrifice time with your kids to make a bunch of money then are you really serving them? If you can grow your business and still carve out chunks of Dad time, and Husband time, then I would say you are one lucky guy.

      If you start spending 60 hours a week in an office away from home, I would say you are a d**che bag.

      :p

      Respectfully, (really)

      -Valorie
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258448].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Yea, you're a dumb ass.

    But that aside, I think you'll still be OK. As long as you hire a qualified person with a good work ethic, you should be fine, dude.

    Go relax! Then come back with some more of those killer WSOs.

    Allen
    Signature
    Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258492].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Tom Brite
    Jeremy surely you just need to go back to the real reasons you wanted to be 'financially free' and quit your 'JOB'?

    Then analyze those original reasons and see if you have got them and see if they are still there and achieved if you get an office and an employee!

    If they arn't then its a bad move as you are then back tracking when you have come so far forward.

    Plus Jeremy i know you work hard but i never hear about you actually enjoying life.... do you even go outside lol!

    For example ive decided to go and enjoy life more so as soon as i decided that i went and hired 2 full time workers and now since then have a 9 day holiday booked with a friend, a hot air balloon trip booked for me and my mummy on tuesday, another trip to england for a week before i go on proper holiday so i can try and get my driving license again. Also going partying in a city near me on the 17th for the weekend and generally trying to enjoy life and my money as much as possible.

    People think im crazy when i pull out $200 for a normal day out with them and then get home at the end and realize i only have some small change left. But that's what i call living life!

    Tom Brite
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258498].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    Tom,

    What is this "outside" of which you speak? It sounds like a wondrous and happy place. Can you give me directions?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258535].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      Tom,

      What is this "outside" of which you speak? It sounds like a wondrous and happy place. Can you give me directions?
      Oh theres been some hilarious one liners around here lately and this is another of them!
      Signature
      SEO Training. $20 a month, first month free. Cancel anytime.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1260150].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Nah, you're no dumb ass Darth Kelsall. One cannot grow their business beyond a certain size without contractor help and/or employees. The great thing about most businesses is that you can train others to run the whole thing for you, IF that's what you want.

    So right now you're at the cross roads. You can choose to one day be a business owner versus being a business owner - worker. I had a hands free business for awhile and had four employees run the whole thing. But I missed the action. I missed the product creation, finding new ways to promote and market, and satisifying my competitive nature.

    Besides, I missed hitting on my employees and having them talk about me behind my back at the water cooler. So it's good to be back!

    RoD
    Signature
    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258611].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258633].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Jeremy,

      You need to read Work The System.

      Martin
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258651].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Jeremy, this is why when people tell me I could be doing better, I tell them
      that I don't want to do better. I am happy with my life the way it is. I work
      when I want, don't have to worry about "employees" or even "outsourcers"
      complicating my life. I did try the outsource thing for a while, mostly on the
      suggestions of people here, but after a while, it was just too much of a
      hassle. And having employees? Never in a million years.

      It's not for everybody. Some people just want to make a decent income
      doing what they do, by themselves, and they're cool with that.

      Today, I spend most of my time in the recording studio or playing video games.

      That's the life I want.

      And it works for me.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258657].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      You must grow, Jeremy. Somebody needs to be penalized for being successful. It may as well be you. Besides, we need people like you to pay for the health insurance of the deadbeats who don't want to pay for it themselves.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258710].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    I think I would do the same thing as you Jeremy. I would imagine at first I might find myself in the office quite a bit, but when you find the right people, and train them correctly, you won't need to be in the office so much. Just set goals and deadlines for your employees and keep all communication lines open. When things are running smoothly you probably won't need to actually physically be in the office more than once or twice a week, if that. Good luck!

    Bill
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258659].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    Nah, you got out of it because you wanted to be your own boss right?

    Not really because you hated your job, but because you want to get paid what you think you are worth. This is what you are working for now.

    In the future I want a stable normal job, it's not all about money, it's just about doing what you want.
    Signature
    SEO Content Strategy Guide From A Professional

    Have questions about real White Hat SEO? Just ask!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258665].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author klinvie
    Hi Jeremy,

    have you thought of letting others do all the heavy lifting and you concentrate on the marketing part of the business. This seem to be a great model (one I will be adapting myself).

    I seem to totally eliminate the feeling of having a JOB.

    klinvie
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258702].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author marcus passey
    Alright Jeremy

    Wow man I did not realise you were doing that well so quick into your IM adventure.

    I made my first ever sale because of you guys, I have since moved forward and made a small amount online and am trying to build a business.

    I am always going to keep a lookout to what you two come up with next.

    Thanks Jeremy and Don.

    Marcus
    Signature
    Watch me finally make money this year now I have a mentor follow my journey at www.marcuspassey.com

    Are you building a list? get my FREE report on list building CLICK HERE!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258723].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GoGetta
    Jeremy - I see it as the STEP UP! You can make more money and you will still be IN CHARGE, this is the key!!

    This isn't going back to a JOB this is running YOUR BUSINESS!

    Good luck with the decision!

    GoGetta
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258738].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author eaglechick
    Jeremy

    You guys rock!!

    BUT

    BIG MIKE HAS SPOKEN - STAND UP AND LISTEN
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258748].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author John_Reese
      Jeremy,

      Just my two cents for you as someone who has been down that same road (many, many times with different businesses)...

      If you are able to be productive from home (and it sounds like you have been) you will most likely have one of the TWO things occur...

      1. You'll get tired of going to an office (driving back and forth, minor maintenance stuff, etc.) and you'll find yourself eventually no longer going into the office and continue to work from home like you always have.

      2. You'll continue to work from the office but your productivity will suffer. You'll have more distractions from being readily accessible (i.e. employees will bug you often whether you want them to or not) and ultimately you won't grow as fast as you could have if you were personally more productive.

      Most entrepreneurs make HORRIBLE MANAGERS. We're creative IDEA people. Managing people (at all; even if it's just a little bit) is taking away from our gifts of being creative and thinking of new ideas and strategies to grow the business.

      I know this firsthand. I've had an office before with a bunch of employees and quickly came to realize that I sucked as a manager. Well, okay, it wasn't quickly. It was probably after I lost a few million dollars in potential because I became a lot less productive.

      You also have to consider your HAPPINESS. It sounds like you're really happy being around your family and having that 'be at home' lifestyle. Working from an office will probably not make you as happy, and that's something to really think about.

      So I would strongly consider NOT opening an office. Personally, I think it's just a waste time, energy, and CASH. If you actually have team members that need to be supervised then you have the WRONG PEOPLE. A-players can kick ass and work from home on their own without supervision. Now certainly you may have the need for a team of people to work together on a regular basis to collaborate on projects - if that's the case, then 'maybe' get an office for them to work together. This could be the case for a software development team or possible an Operations center for support people and/or a sales group like a call center. BUT even if that's the case just get a Manager that will manage the group of people in the office.

      GREAT EXAMPLE: Look at Eben Pagan. He has about 80 members on his team and they have NO OFFICE. Everyone works virtually. Yet they do over $20MM/year in revenue.

      YOU are NOT a manager. That's not what is making you money. If you want to make more money you simply do more of what makes you money -- and that hasn't been managing people in an office. ;-)

      Stay focused on that fact and it will help you make a lot more money and continue to grow.

      Just my two cents. Hope some of that may have helped.

      -John Reese
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258826].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        Thanks for all the words everyone

        You are honestly making the decision more difficult though lol

        I really don't care to be in "charge" of anyone, really.

        The need for an office is almost growing out of necessity.

        If any of you have been a part of any of our training more than likely you have heard my "other" partner aka my 4 year old that already thinks he is an internet marketer lol

        If he sees my headset go on...He is at his little desk in my home set up with his netbook "making videos" too. I think he has made an appearance in just about every video that i've ever done lol

        Also, I would much rather jump on the trampoline with him or take him on the go-kart than pretty much anything else that needs to be done

        Add into the mix the fact that I've recently been offered a couple of opportunities that I just didn't think were possible a year or so ago...This has made me realize that I have some somewhat difficult decisions to make.

        I think in the end, I will hire one or two people here with me and my partner Don will do the same. Train them personally and then let the kind of man the office and only go there when I need to for productivity reasons.

        Again, thanks for all the input.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258857].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Stephen Meyer
          I'm not there yet my ideal goal is to have a virtual office. It wouldn't matter to me if staff, assistants etc are 1000 miles away or 10' away if they're competent and their job is defined.

          I know of online assistants now who live far away from their employer. They have assigned work and get it done.

          For me virtual assistants and a home office is the ticket.
          Signature
          Find out how this guy went from being over $40,000 in debt to having total financial freedom and how you can to.Click Here: Freedom ~
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258881].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    LMAO - Sounded like you were talking about Don when you mentioned your 4 year old.

    Good luck, brother!

    Allen
    Signature
    Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258862].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author zerofill
      Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

      LMAO - Sounded like you were talking about Don when you mentioned your 4 year old.

      Good luck, brother!

      Allen
      har har har...*beep* *beep* --censored-- *beep*...bastage
      Signature
      Serp Shaker
      The IM World Will Be Shaken to the Core!
      Join my list at: IMCool.Biz
      New Podcast --> podcast.imcool.biz
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1263268].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sylvia Meier
    Jeremy,
    I know the feeling, as my life has done much the same and I know once my business expands to a certain point (and should be at that point by the new year) I have no choice but to hire on employees (already have one in mind in fact). My plan....get a new house that has it's own seperate office. So I am still home, but I can still check into the "office" when I need. I started working from home because of my kids too, and I will never give that part up, and even now that I work "full time" I still make time to go out for lunch, play at the park, go on field trips with them etc, I will never expand my own business to a point I can no longer do that, otherwise I am right back where I was before, except this time I am the boss...

    Sylvia
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258919].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Sonja
      Originally Posted by darrin_cooper View Post

      Maybe in reality what you really hated about the "JOB" wasn't the "RAT RACE"
      but you hated the part of "Answering To Someone Else".

      I think there are certain "negative" aspects of the concept of a JOB:
      1. Working 40 + hours per week
      2. Lack of Free Time
      3. Answering To Someone else
      Ditto! Now that definitely sums it up for me!



      Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post


      If given the choice will you grow your business to the point of HAVING to have employees or would you be content to just get to a certain point and call it a day?
      Expansion is a thought that sooner or later comes across the minds of ANY business owner. Now whether they act on it is a different story. But the answer to your question lies within yourself.

      Is Jeremy ready to give up the dream life he has created for himself now for something that is *seemingly* close to what he left....except now you would be calling the shots? Now for me that puts a totally different spin on the word "JOB" because you wouldn't be going back to play that "JOB" role anymore. As a matter of fact you wouldn't be going back to anything because going back means that you have been there before, and this would be a role you haven't done before....Right?
      Signature
      ~Yeah I'm working on it~

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259978].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Hey Jeremy,

    Sylvia's post got me thinking - why don't you build an office onto your houe - then have your employees come there to work each day?

    Allen

    p.s. Great job Sylvia - happiness with your family trumps just about anything dudnit?!
    Signature
    Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1258933].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Edge88
    Hey Jeremy,

    As a young entrepreneur and professional (I've worked for a top consulting firm for the past two summers: read 70 hour weeks) I think that maybe what many entrepreneurs run from when they leave the rat race isn't the office or all the hard work. What we run from is working hard for someone else. I remember being frustrated working hard for the firm, but don't mind working hard on my own start up.

    So my advice to you is, growing your business is up to you. Is it something you want to do? The growth process probably will be a lot of work, but I bet you can probably go into cruise mode again once you're satisfied

    Hope this help, I'm very new to IM, but I an drop a tip or two on entrepreneurship.

    Ed
    Signature

    Director of Digital Marketing at www.groundbreaker.co

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259074].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kevin AKA Hubcap
      Jeremy,

      I can't see why you can't have the best of both worlds. If your staff needs an office that's fine but you don't need to be there 40+ hrs a week.

      Hire people who can work independently and come into the office when you need to.

      Kevin
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259321].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dv8
    Hard to answer since I don't know your specifics. As in how much money you make and how much you want to make. I do know one thing, it's extremely clear that the most important thing to you is family time. Which would sway me toward not getting an office.

    Me personally, I would do my best to NEEVR get an office. Or employees for that matter. I love money and it is important to me. But I also love my freedom. Years ago I would do whatever it takes to make millions. Now, I'd rather work less but still make enough money to support the lifestyle I want. And the lifestyle I want doesn't require millions. Millions would be nice, but nowadays it's less important than the free time I'd rather have.

    So I guess it depends on what is more important. Seems clear that you make enough now to support your family and live a good life. So why change that?

    And as John Resse said, your productivity may actually go down and it will cost you money instead of help you make more.

    80/20 here. Just do more of what's working.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259440].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
    Am I A Dumb Ass...Or What?
    It is taking every single ounce of my willpower to not respond to this. Jeremy, don't you EVER post anything like this again! I'm starting to twitch!
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259450].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
      Originally Posted by Chris W. Sutton View Post

      It is taking every single ounce of my willpower to not respond to this. Jeremy, don't you EVER post anything like this again! I'm starting to twitch!
      I was going to call Darth Kelsall an "....Or What?" since I didn't want to call him a dumb ass.........

      Now where's my red bull / rockstar / monster / vodka power combo energy drink?
      Signature
      "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
      - Jim Rohn
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1262600].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Will_Surren
    Jeremy,

    My goal is to get to where you are now. I not looking to get away from the office as much as I am looking to work for myself. What you should gain from expanding this way is a way to move the major work out of your home and into a professional environment. If you are a good manager, you will be in and out of the office. Your employees will know what you are looking for from them while you are away. You will set goals for them and they will have a clear understanding of how to know when they are achieving the goals. When they achieve the goals, you will reward them generously with something that they want. Some want money, some need praise, some just want to know they are making their employer happy. Just as you get paid with incentives, you can give them the feeling of ownership by setting monetary sales goals. Monitor their successes and failures placing focus on the successes even when you have to address a failure.

    It will not be easy in the beginning trying to find a good employee to run your office. In the beginning you may want to hire fast a fire faster until you find someone that you feel good with. You will eventually find someone where you have a mutual respect and you will hold on to this person by treating them great and keeping an arms length relationship with them. The key is to treat this person in a way to where they want to make you happy. You don't want someone doing as you say just because you are the boss. Let them speak openly to you and encourage open conversation about what they think. In the end, it is still you that makes the decisions but it will show them that you care about their opinions.

    I have followed you and watched your advice to others. You are very sharp and probably already know everything I have just said. You are a straight talker and if you get an employee that has a soft shell they may not know how to take you. I have over 100 employees and I have faced many difficulties over the years and I believe that I have finally found ways to build mutual respect but it is not easy.

    I would say that congratulations are in order. Growing to this level in your own business is a huge success and if you are looking to still have the family time you have gained over the past few years, just build a strong foundation that allows you to stay out of the office as much as possible. Enjoy your family and spoil the heck out of them while they and you are still young.

    Congratulations and I hope you continue to grow your business while also remaining FREE!!!
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259661].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis-White
    I would still take running MY own office then being an employee in SOMEONE ELSE'S office any day of the week
    Signature

    Just your average internet marketer, business builder and turn key specialist...

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259669].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Big JP
    Hey Jeremy,

    Here's my input... Is your current online business at the point where it is as "hands free" as you would like, and also at its peak, meaning there is no way to continue at the same level of work you currently put in to keep things how you like it, and still be able to grow without an office? If so, then why don't you consider calling your "online business" 1 "income stream" and keep things runnning at the highest level you can maintain, then consider expanding your income with other "income streams" other than internet marketing, such as investing in property, which can also be very hands off, a nice set of income streams, and still no need for an office???

    You know, just start other income streams, and keep maximising and moving on.... while staying at your desired level of freedom and your own limits, if you can get to the point which you say you are at, and your happy with how things are going but still want to expand then why stick to 1 thing, when you could do the same with many other oppertunities.

    Yourself and Don have proven you know how to work systems, and have a good track record on dominating whatever you damn well choose, so get your feet wet in other markets and dominate them! Then come back to the forum and produce a WSO to show others how its done like you always do

    I'm sure whatever you choose to do, you will make it work either way.

    Good luck to your future

    JP
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1259700].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    Jeremy, I don't know what the situation is in the US, but I guess it is like the UK in terms of hiring people.

    If you get an office, look for someone who can manage the office. But, don't hire a permanent member of staff. In the UK, many companies now realise the problems with staff, so they hire a temp. Lots of agencies around who do the interview and hiring and firing of people. You tell them what you need, your budget and someone turns up for work.

    What often happens in the UK, a good person (in that they want to work for you etc) will work twice as hard, hoping after a few months you will offer them a permanent job.

    If they aren't any good, you tell the agency and they send someone else.

    The person can be responsible for the overall management of the company, while you do what you want to do. Whether you work in the office or home doesn't matter. You might spilt your time to have a presence in the office.

    Don't look at it as a negative, and all the things you tried to avoid, but look at how many people you are helping, and how your company can expand even during a recession.

    Your kids will be proud of you because you did something different, they will be able to get involved in your business, if you all want it. But, the biggest thing you are showing them ... there is another way to get on in life without following the standard path.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1260065].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jrmnlitt
    I know some people may feel internet marketing has become a job, but what in life isn't. When you compare it to a 9 to 5 how can you complain. Theres no boss looking over your shoulder, no 10 cent raise for 6 months of your life, and most importantly if you have kids or a family you can actually spend real time with them when you want and not when someone tells you to punch out. Everything in life has its draw backs, but you have to look at what you gaining. There are people that would kill to be in some our shoes.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1260144].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bettersocial
    I would actually like an office. I've never really worked in an office setting, and being the boss would be quite nice.

    The "CEO" tag will definitely impress the chicks
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1262672].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark-Dickenson
    Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

    What is YOUR take on that?

    If given the choice will you grow your business to the point of HAVING to have employees or would you be content to just get to a certain point and call it a day?
    Content and call it all good

    I have no desire to be a slave to money or my business

    Here is one of the best quotes I have ever read...I saw it on Andrew Hansen's Blog

    What's It All For?

    One of the best things I have ever read

    -Mark
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1262871].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author zapseo
      Originally Posted by Mark-Dickenson View Post

      Content and call it all good

      I have no desire to be a slave to money or my business

      Here is one of the best quotes I have ever read...I saw it on Andrew Hansen's Blog

      What's It All For?

      One of the best things I have ever read

      -Mark
      I totally love that story. Trying to find the source (and there IS a source), I saw a post mention in it along with Ferriss' 4 Hour Work Week. Is this mentioned in Ferriss' book, is that why it has become so widely known all of a sudden.

      (Yes, of a sudden -- I have researched this story a few times in the past. The last time, I discovered that the author is in fact known. An MBA Professor -- going by the story -- from Harvard. I'm not sure, he may be retired now. But danged if I can find the author's name now. Too many results when I search for the story!)

      Live JoyFully!

      Judy

      PS -- The degree to which there isn't a lot of story drift impresses me. By drift, most examples follow the same story, with the same words for most of the story.
      Signature
      Speed Read Copy -- 97% Off Value -- RAVE Reviews!
      One of the brightest WordPress "Whisperers" hangs out here: http://wpshine.com -- I'm lucky enough to hang out with him. We clean up hacked websites and help you beef up your website & WP security. check us out.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1263232].message }}

Trending Topics