Testimonial troubles

[CDarklock]

I was asked earlier today if I would mind reading someone's ebook on copywriting tips and giving a testimonial. I said sure, I could always use some copywriting tips, maybe there's something good in there.

So I get this guy's ebook in my email, and I open it up, and it's... just... terrible.

We're not talking about a few grammar and spelling errors. He apparently can't write coherent English. And in this 37-page ebook, he manages to give simply awful advice. I believe reading this ebook has not only made me a worse copywriter, but actually reduced my intelligence.

Now, I don't have a problem saying "hey, this book sucks" in a general sense. But this guy worked his arse off making a product, and he's getting ready to sell it, and he's all excited that he's done all this great stuff. If I just go "dude, you suck" - well, it's likely he'll live a life of disillusion and despondency and eventually kill himself by sticking his head into a light socket and the birds will pick him clean and people will think he's a wind chime.

How do you tell someone in this fragile state of the IM process that their product is absolute, unmitigated crap that isn't worth the bandwidth it took to download it?

[Miguel Oliveira]

You should be honest and clearly point out the mistakes. You should say "there are many grammar mistakes" and identify the points where bad advice is given. But you should compliment him for his effort. You can also suggest ways to improve the book, like paying for editing and reviewing, or changing certain advice. Making a helpful critic is much harder than just saying "you suck" but at least you know you will be helping him.

[Mike Hersh]

You simply say it.

You can tell him that you really want to help him with a killer testimonial, but you can't lie and he must change it and send it again.

I believe that he will agree with you.

You simply help him to understand that his ebook is a total crap and he will get a lot of refunds.

Mike G

[Mark Hess]

Originally Posted by Mike Hersh

You simply help him to understand that his ebook is a total crap and he will get a lot of refunds.

I agree, at first i wouldn't say anything... now I send them a PM and state what Mike Hersh just said.

Not everyone should be out there creating products. This is why the WSO section and Clickbank is what it is today....

[Martin Luxton]

Maybe it was a piece of rehashed PLR. I've seen some PLR books on copywriting that could probably match the one you have for awfulness.

So maybe he didn't put his heart and soul in it.

This might be a good time to wheel out the "write about what you know" line.

As it's obvious from the book he is not an expert copywriter, he should consider another topic (using videos with no text!).

How do you tell someone in this fragile state of the IM process that their product is absolute, unmitigated crap that isn't worth the bandwidth it took to download it?

So you don't tell him and he spends the rest of his life believing he's the next Paul Myers or Gary Halbert?

Martin

[iplusgold]

Not being totally honest will hurt him far more than a bad review...imagine what it will be like for him getting refund request after refund request...it would be simply soul destroying.

I'd give him totally honest feedback...and make some very detailed points on why its not a good product and then maybe direct him to compare it with a similar product and show why that is good and what his lacks in comparison.

Best of luck!

[GarryMSayer]

When I read your post CDarklock it reminded me of the TV Programme The 'X Factor'.

How many times have dreams been shattered by Mr Cowell's scathing honesty. Sure it makes good TV and I'm sure some folks go on the programme just to get on TV, but some of these wannabees seem totally deluded in their belief that they can actually sing.

I think maybe you could take a leaf out of Mr. Cowell's book. Why not let this guy know that the book is rubbish. But as already suggested advise him to learn the language and lingo before even attempting to launch a product written in English.

Honesty although maybe the last thing you want to hear when you heart is on the line is I believe 99.9% of the time the best policy for any given situation.

Heck, maybe after reading your comments he'll go to the 'virtual backstage' shrug his shoulders, shake his head and look incredulous yet slightly bemused at the cameras, and say

"Huh! What does he know about talent, I'm destined for greater things than he could ever imagine."

Garry.

P.S. Rather you than me though buddy!

[marciayudkin]

Darklock,

I have been in this situation countless times.

What I do is simply say "I'm sorry, but the product isn't ready for publication."

If they want to know more, they'll ask, and then you have permission to tell them (diplomatically) the flaws.

Unfortunately, I have been cursed and threatened for refusing to provide a testimonial - by two well-known veteran marketers, among others.

On the other hand, I've been in situations where the asker graciously thanked me for my opinion and we remained in a cordial relationship.

Do not under any circumstances provide a testimonial to someone who doesn't deserve it.

Good luck,
Marcia Yudkin

[CDarklock]

It's not so much that I don't want to be honest, or that I'm considering actually writing a testimonial for this garbage.

What I'm concerned about is the motivational angle. The guy's taken action, built a product, he's clearly proud of it, he's fired up and ready to go... but the product is crap.

How can I give the PRODUCT the scathing review it deserves, without making the AUTHOR feel like he's a complete loser?

I mean, some people can take that. I could. If I wrote some absolute crap, I'd want my reviewer to say "this is crap" and pull no punches. But I really don't feel like this guy could take that kind of no-holds-barred criticism. He seems... well, fragile. People like that have a hard time making it anywhere, let alone in this industry, but I'd really rather not be the guy who made him quit.

[Bev Clement]

I was faced with something similar yesterday, when a non-IMer asked me to look and edit their book. They thought it was good and ready for publication.

I decided to say how I thought the book should have been written, regarding the voice they should have used. I then went on to show then what I meant, by taking 1 paragraph and rewriting it.

In the case of ebooks where people think they are ready, give them praise for taking action, but say it could be made better ... list the ways. Also say with it as it is you can't give a testimonial unless they would like a negative, but you are prepared to read through an amended version if it helps them.

I promised to do a specific job for an ebook based on the person's previous work. When it came, I said I was unable to put my name on it, because and I highlighted the problems.

For every negative, try and give them a positive.

[marciayudkin]

How can I give the PRODUCT the scathing review it deserves, without making the AUTHOR feel like he's a complete loser?

Someone who asks for a testimonial is not looking for a review.

Believe me, I have been there.

Marcia Yudkin

[GarryMSayer]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

What I'm concerned about is the motivational angle. The guy's taken action, built a product, he's clearly proud of it, he's fired up and ready to go... but the product is crap.

How can I give the PRODUCT the scathing review it deserves, without making the AUTHOR feel like he's a complete loser?

He seems... well, fragile. People like that have a hard time making it anywhere, let alone in this industry, but I'd really rather not be the guy who made him quit.

My experience of dealing with fragile people is to be honest but carefully consider everything you'd like to say.

We've probably all been in fragile states during some time of our lives but the people I've gravitated to for support and sympathy are those that seem to understand my problem and my pain.

However, as stated by Bev it's wise for you and nicer for them to find a positive for every negative. This is the better solution than offering them a ton of negativity in the hope that something positive will come out of it.

I still stand by my opinion that if it is that bad he needs some of the Simon Cowell treatment, BUT, he also needs to be reassured and relieved that you understand his plight. He will also probably be immensely grateful and happy that you freely and openly suggest solutions to his problem.

You're a nice fella.

Garry.

[FrankHaywood]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I really don't feel like this guy could take that kind of no-holds-barred criticism. He seems... well, fragile. People like that have a hard time making it anywhere, let alone in this industry, but I'd really rather not be the guy who made him quit.

You have a very kind soul, and I'm sure if we met we'd be friends.

Sometimes though you have to tell it like it is. I don't mean the Nelson "hah-hah" kind of telling, but you really need to show him right away that he just doesn't have the skills as a writer yet, and neither does he know his subject.

Beating about the bush or trying to be too nice about it will as people have pointed out, only make things much much worse.

If he gives up as a result, all you've done is accelerated the inevitable and saved him from a lot of wasted time.

If he takes the criticism and works from it then that's great and it could be the start of a good relationship for you both. (Take notes on his improvement and write it all up. It's probably saleable.)

I don't envy your position though, it's a dreadful feeling to have.

-Frank Haywood

[rosetrees]

I would probably say something along the lines of:

"Do you realise there are quite a number of grammar and spelling mistakes? For example x & y. Have you considered finding someone whose first language is English to read it through for you?"

"As an experienced copywriter, I'm afraid I don't agree with all the advise you've given, for example x & y. Is this advise you've learnt by experience or from studying a specific course?"

I've written something along those lines to people I've tested for. Usually they are grateful for the advise and take the time to rewrite/ rethink their product. I like to think it's positive and constructive and gives the person a chance to think about what they are doing.

Carol

[Mark McClure]

CD,

Play it by the book... and say something like:

"In my opinion as a professional writer, this product has passed the 1st draft stage and is now ready for proofreading. Once that's complete then only editing remains before it's all systems go for launch."

You'd be doing him a great favor with such an approach before it gets trashed in the big, bad marketplace.

[Steve Peters Benn]

I tend to be very careful agreeing to product reviews because I have encountered some pretty bad stuff. Thankfully, when I was starting out, reviewers pointed me in the right direction but it is a very delicate issue.

One of my main issues with giving testimonials to beginners, is that some keep coming back for advice on the WSO again and again, which my WSO coaching students pay for. I'm left in a difficult place then, I can't really give them for free, what others pay good money for. Nor do I want to turn them away or turn my advice into a pitch fest or upsell.

Hence why I now try and avoid getting into the situation in the first place.

[James Clark]

Look, don’t make yourself crazy with this stuff. Just tell the person to get someone to proof read their work and leave it at that. Secondly, recommend taking a writing course online and practice.

Now, if they don’t get the message then move to the point of telling them truth. If this person is a friend they will appreciate the truth in your statement. Always be honest with people, period.


Jimmy.

[Karen Connell]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

It's not so much that I don't want to be honest, or that I'm considering actually writing a testimonial for this garbage.

What I'm concerned about is the motivational angle. The guy's taken action, built a product, he's clearly proud of it, he's fired up and ready to go... but the product is crap.

How can I give the PRODUCT the scathing review it deserves, without making the AUTHOR feel like he's a complete loser?

I mean, some people can take that. I could. If I wrote some absolute crap, I'd want my reviewer to say "this is crap" and pull no punches. But I really don't feel like this guy could take that kind of no-holds-barred criticism. He seems... well, fragile. People like that have a hard time making it anywhere, let alone in this industry, but I'd really rather not be the guy who made him quit.

When I was in HR and I had to speak to someone regarding a work related problem, I always used the 'criticism sandwich'.

This is where you say something good first i.e. "It's great that you have actually taken action and written your product - not many people even try etc..."

Followed by the meat i.e. the criticism "However, it's not ready to be shown to the public yet because..."

Then another positive point i.e. "If you try writing about something you know well and find someone to proofread and edit your copy before you publish etc..."

I always found that people left my office not thinking that they had been chastised but left looking for more ways to do better.

Just my 2 cents.

Karen

[markshields]

My advice would always be to simply be honest with this person, I believe it is more important that people know the truth and where they honestly stand rather than to be given false impressions or hopes in an effort to save their feelings

[Mary Gallivan]

Some of what I was going to suggest has already been mentioned.

I would say something along the lines of 'I can tell you have put a lot of time and effort into this book. If you want to really do well in the future in IM and build yourself a reputation of offering good solid advice/guidance/ or whatever, may I suggest you first pay attention to the following points before I can offer a testimonial for you.

1, 2, 3 etc

It would not be in your best interests if I was to provide a testimonial at this stage as I feel you may encounter a number of dissatisfied customers seeking a refund. Not only will this affect your reputation but may also seriously damage your self confidence.'

Then, if you can, choose some positive sections that have been well written and say.
'While such and such is great advice, maybe you could expand on these and also add .....

Also mention about grammar etc.

I will be more than happy to take another look at it when it has been edited.

Anyway, just an idea of how I would approach it.

Good luck

Mary

[Ken]

Or use a cop-out. Because of the new FTC rules regarding testimonials etc.

Ken

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by marciayudkin

Someone who asks for a testimonial is not looking for a review.

Believe me, I have been there.

I'm sure this is right.

The problem is that to follow much of the advice in this thread, you're going to be making the job really time-consuming, and not even providing what the person wants (which obviously you can't provide anyway). Call me a coward, but I'd get out of it by saying simply "Sorry, but I really can't give you a testimonial that will be of any help to you, because I feel the product isn't ready at all for publication".

If he then starts asking you why, well, that's a different problem, isn't it? But at least then you'll have been asked for "negatives".

[Louise Green]

There's nothing wrong in giving him some constructive critism, and hell, you're actually going to help this guy sell more by doing so.

He should be thankful to have someone so honest on his side.