only 206 subscribers and already 15 SPAM complaints...

[Christian Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Single opt-in?

You're just asking for trouble. You get a lot of crappy subscribers and you don't have a leg to stand on when you get spam complaints.

All my lists are double opt-in, and I rarely get spam complaints. When I do, it's some lost soul and counts for 1 complaint per a few thousand subscribers.

Normally I would agree with you Kevin, but this is completely false.

Sometimes single opt-in is the way to go, and it is dependent on the niche itself and the mindset of your subscribers.

-Christian

[MWGrubb58]

As long as you have good content and few promos, you should be OK. HA! I have 16 emails the first month on my list with only 2 promos... I am probably underusing my list.

It's all about trust.

Cheers,

Millard

[noangel]

I find it very useful as a subscriber to see some initial info saying I have subscribed.

Having said that, I still don't feel that by merely subscribing, I should hear from them
more often than I hear from my own family! But that's just me...

Angela

[Kevin_Hutto]

I dont know who you are using for an AR, but if you keep it up at that rate, Aweber will FORCE you to do double optin on your account forever. They close down the single optin option.

[lazersgopewpew]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Here's the straight dope, like it or not.

Doesn't matter if people are actually searching for your offer. Once they
hit that squeeze page, many people do NOT want to give their email
addresses. So they stick any old address in there.

Sadly, way too many times, it's either somebody else they know or an a
address that actually exists.

Then that person gets the email, says "What the $#!T?" and reports it as
spam.

You are playing with a loaded gun with single opt in.

Can it work? Sure. But IMO, it isn't worth the risks.

My 2 cents on the subject.

Hey Steven, I agree with what you're saying. But how about in situations where you aren't collecting email addresses from a squeeze page? Like a web form placed on a blog for example. Seems a bit more practical to make those single opt-in, rather than double since no one is being forced to input their email address. Would you agree with single opt-in in that situation?

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by snowtiger

Hey Steven, I agree with what you're saying. But how about in situations where you aren't collecting email addresses from a squeeze page? Like a web form placed on a blog for example. Seems a bit more practical to make those single opt-in, rather than double since no one is being forced to input their email address. Would you agree with single opt-in in that situation?

It's not the damn page for crying out loud. What does it matter WHERE
people go if ultimately you're saying to them...

"If you want this great information that I have for you, just fill in your name
and email and I'll get it right to you."

People are afraid of giving their email addresses. That's why double opt in
confirmation is so low. They don't want to do it. The ones that REALLY
want your info WILL,

With single opt in, what does it matter?

They don't want to give their email?

No problem...Just plug in their ex bosses email, the guy who fired his ass
or ex girlfriend and let THEM deal with the spam.

Single opt in is like putting a loaded gun to your head with 5 of the 6
barrels loaded and pulling the trigger.

No thanks.

[RyanLeonard]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brock

Hello everyone.

I was wondering your thoughts no what is an acceptable number of SPAM complains per subscriber ratio, and some ways to reduce it.

One of my newer lists has been getting me worried.

I only have 206 subscribers and have already gotten 15 complaints. I really haven't been doing anything out of the ordinary besides for switching to single opt-in.

Here is my scheduling: day 0,1,3,5,7,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,34,38,42,46,50,54 ,58,61,65,69,73

Could it be that I am emailing them too often in the beginning?

I have been fairly lax with my promotions - one decent tip with each email and promo of only one single product(in each email) throughout my entire newsletter series.

Am I getting worked up over nothing, or is 7% complaint rate something I should concerned about?

I had the same problem a couple a days ago with single opt ins I got using mobile PPC. Well, they got me at the wrong time and it pissed me off lol- considering I don't sell heavy or often to them. I even had one chick email me telling me to stop sending her "these tips".

Like I said, they caught me at a bad time, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed- and seeing people marking me as spam pissed me off. Here's what I did:

I sent out a broadcast with the headline:

"What Do You Want From Me?"

and here's the body of the message:

Wow,

I've never done this before, but I'm doing it now. Listen up people!

If you have NO INTEREST in losing weight- then GET OFF MY LIST!
If you have no interest in GETTING HELP- then GET OFF MY LIST!

I just can't believe some people. I send out a FREE report- and what do I get?
A bunch of little cry babies COMPLAINING.

They're probably just mad because they don't know how to read. Or maybe they're so
lazy that they aren't even WILLING to read!

I've got some news for you people:

LOSING WEIGHT TAKES MORE THAN JUST CLICKING A BUTTON!

You're going to need to change your lifestyle. And you're probably going to need to buy stuff (please don't faint).

I do my best to give YOU, my readers valuable information that really will help you,
and all you do is spit in my face.

I swear on my life, if YOU people, the people I just mentioned don't get off my email list RIGHT now, I'm going to find you and unsubscribe you myself.

================================================== ===============

I'm sorry to those of you that didn't deserve that tongue lashing... But it's been ignored for too long...

To those of you that say nice things about my emails- thank you, you will keep receiving tons of valuable information.

-Jason Jaruso
================================================== ===============

To those of you that want to unsubscribe- PLEASE DO IT NOW! Here's the link:

IrresistibleWoman! 2414 Kanuga Road, Hendersonville, North Carolina 28739, USA

To unsubscribe or change subscriber options visit:
Subscribe/Unsubscribe/Change Options


I know a lot of people on this forum are going to have a big problem with that lol- but I really don't care. So far- no one's marked it as spam! and I even had that same chick that told me to stop sending her tips write me this:
"I love your ideas I think that what your saying is all true please send more great tips. "

So I suppose it had some positive impact lol


Peace,
-Ryan Leonard

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

People are afraid of giving their email addresses.

Of course they're not afraid.

They weigh up the pros and cons, and make a decision ... "Do I trust this person?"

Fear doesn't come into it. Anyone who's scared of getting email is a little unhinged if you ask me.

There's a time for single opt-in, and in my experience it's *after the sale*.

Any sign-up offer you make *before* your prospect has bought into you (either as a person, or with cold hard cash, preferably both) should probably be asked to confirm their address.

Cheers,
Steve

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Of course they're not afraid.

They weigh up the pros and cons, and make a decision ... "Do I trust this person?"

Fear doesn't come into it. Anyone who's scared of getting email is a little unhinged if you ask me.

There's a time for single opt-in, and in my experience it's *after the sale*.

Any sign-up offer you make *before* your prospect has bought into you (either as a person, or with cold hard cash, preferably both) should probably be asked to confirm their address.

Cheers,
Steve

Forgive me for using the wrong word.

People don't want to get email.

They're sick of their in boxes being overrun. They're sick of not being
able to find the email sent from their Aunt Tilly.

And yes, some people ARE afraid of giving their email addresses because
of these things and other concerns such as having their email accounts
hacked and so on.

You don't see this because you're wrapped up in your IM world like so
many people in this business are. But trust me, there are folks out there
who would NEVER give their email addresses to ANYBODY.

With single opt in, they give a fake address, which more times than not
turns out to belong to somebody (who then reports it as spam) or they
give the address of somebody they don't like.

I know this for a fact because I've seen it with my own eyes.

Single opt in opens up too many doors for abuse, which ultimately either
lead to your ISP shutting you down (if you have your own script) or the
3rd party company (Aweber, GetResponse, etc.) to close your account.

It happens. The threads of complaints of people who have had this
happen to them are littered through this forum.

So forgive me for the word afraid (even though in some cases it actually
does apply.)

Bottom line: Using single opt in is looking for trouble.

But hey, far be it for me to tell people how to run their business.

Ultimately, everybody is going to do what they want to do.

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Forgive me for using the wrong word.

People don't want to get email.

They're sick of their in boxes being overrun. They're sick of not being
able to find the email sent from their Aunt Tilly.

And yes, some people ARE afraid of giving their email addresses because
of these things and other concerns such as having their email accounts
hacked and so on.

You don't see this because you're wrapped up in your IM world like so
many people in this business are. But trust me, there are folks out there
who would NEVER give their email addresses to ANYBODY.

With single opt in, they give a fake address, which more times than not
turns out to belong to somebody (who then reports it as spam) or they
give the address of somebody they don't like.

I know this for a fact because I've seen it with my own eyes.

Single opt in opens up too many doors for abuse, which ultimately either
lead to your ISP shutting you down (if you have your own script) or the
3rd party company (Aweber, GetResponse, etc.) to close your account.

It happens. The threads of complaints of people who have had this
happen to them are littered through this forum.

So forgive me for the word afraid (even though in some cases it actually
does apply.)

Bottom line: Using single opt in is looking for trouble.

But hey, far be it for me to tell people how to run their business.

Ultimately, everybody is going to do what they want to do.

Do you think I count...?



I'm not wrapped up in anything...I'm simply of *sound mind* and can quite easily distinguish between mail I want to see, and mail I don't.

And besides, I stand by my original point...which is:

People aren't in the slightest bit concerned about giving out their email address to people they trust...but they *do* think twice about getting ripped off by people they don't.

I'm not in the slightest bit concerned giving my credit card details, bank a/c number, home address, telephone number etc. to Amazon, but *would* think twice about doing the same to John Doe.

There's a difference.

With single opt in, they give a fake address, which more times than not
turns out to belong to somebody (who then reports it as spam) or they
give the address of somebody they don't like.

More often than not? Really?

Are you saying that >50% of ALL single opt-in subscribers give a false address? For every offer?

C'mon...

Like I said: There's a time for single opt-in, and in my experience it's *after the sale*.

Any sign-up offer you make *before* your prospect has bought into you (either as a person, or with cold hard cash, preferably both) should probably be asked to confirm their address.

Steve

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Like I said: There's a time for single opt-in, and in my experience it's *after the sale*.

Any sign-up offer you make *before* your prospect has bought into you (either as a person, or with cold hard cash, preferably both) should probably be asked to confirm their address.

Steve

Ah, that's a horse of a different color. Yes, I could see it there. Still, I
wouldn't.

People scream spam with single opt in and you don't have a leg to stand
on with your ISP or your AR provider. With confirmed opt in, at least you
can say, "Hey, they had to confirm their email address so how can they
say this is spam?"

I personally don't want to take the chance.

But like I said, everybody has to do what they think is best for their
business.

I'm just sharing my side and my opinion.

And that's all it is...MY opinion.

[mikemcmillan]

Single opt-ins scare me for a number of reasons. One thing to consider is that if you someday opt to change auto-responder providers, many will not let you import names to their service unless an air-tight audit trail is available as to how you got your names. If they came from a single opt-in method many simply won't let you import them. Just something to consider.

[Kevin_Hutto]

Originally Posted by mikemcmillan

Single opt-ins scare me for a number of reasons. One thing to consider is that if you someday opt to change auto-responder providers, many will not let you import names to their service unless an air-tight audit trail is available as to how you got your names. If they came from a single opt-in method many simply won't let you import them. Just something to consider.

I moved 500k names about a year ago from aweber and I wasnt asked any questions about single or double optin. Once they knew the list was at aweber they were fine. And I talked to infusionsoft, icontact, constantcontact, getresponse, 1SC and others... The problem was, no matter where I moved the list to, they ALL required that everyone confirm again. So it was like a double optin anyways, and I lost 200k people off the list.

[ExRat]

Hi Steven F,

Of course they're not afraid.[snip]Fear doesn't come into it. Anyone who's scared of getting email is a little unhinged if you ask me.

You should consider all possibilities before making sweeping generalisations.

There are absolutely tons of people out there who are technically challenged - many of them who get very important emails, yet have had to get someone else to set up their email and show them how to operate their computer.

Some of those people ARE scared of giving out their email.

Within that group, there is a reasonably sized sub-section who have suffered catastrophic consequences because they clicked a link in ONE spam email - they are even more afraid of getting email that is trying to trick them.

There are others completely seperate from that group who are not technically challenged who are very afraid of businesses who automatically subscribe their paypal email address to lists when they buy something and may sell the email to spammers - if that email address became FUBAR due to spam, the consequences would be catastrophic for them.

These people are afraid of giving out their email.

There are more examples, but this is enough I feel. Just because you have a free email with tons of emails in it is irrelevant and does nothing to prove your point.

I'm not wrapped up in anything...I'm simply of *sound mind* and can quite easily distinguish between mail I want to see, and mail I don't.

The insinuation that anyone who can't make this distinction is of unsound mind shows a lack of awareness.

I don't necessarily agree with Steven W's points, but I don't agree with that aspect of your point either.

[Robert Puddy]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If I got 2 messages a day from anyone, I would ban it to my spam folder without hesitation. I think the OP is emailing too frequently. In addition, if this is supposed to be a newsletter, put more tips in it ... more news. Try sending some with just news and tips.

One tip and one promo sounds a great deal like spam to me.

Ok i have seen this a couple of times in this thread, but i'm sorry suzzanne you were the straw that broke the camels back

ITS NOT SPAM YOU SUBSCRIBED AND AGREED TO HAVING EMIAL SENT TO YOU

Sure fine if you dont like the way or what they send, or the frequency unsubscribe, but marking it as spam is just plain wrong

[Robert Puddy]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brock

Would you all agree that having a promo in every one of your emails is generally a bad idea? I have seen it done often in the MMO niche, but anything outside of that....

Maybe put a promo every other email?

Now come on Daniel, dont be a wooose pitch in every email, just dont make them all hard pitchs.

Information in there and an oh by the way this might be useful too

Use the PS to deliver the pitch sometimes

Dont sell them it tell them about it

[2stace]

I would suggest that you have fewer messages, if possible, and spread the mailing dates further apart. I mail once a week and no more than 2 times in a week and I have not received any spam complaints.

If you have double opt-in, that is better.

Make sure to include an "image logo", so that when people unsubscribe (and before they can click "mark as spam"), they will see your banner, picture, or company logo and be reminded that they subscribed to your list.

Hope that helps!

[ExRat]

Hi Steven F,

Coincidentally, I'm now getting much more 'scared' about where I opt in to -

see here