only 206 subscribers and already 15 SPAM complaints...

[Daniel Brock]

Hello everyone.

I was wondering your thoughts no what is an acceptable number of SPAM complains per subscriber ratio, and some ways to reduce it.

One of my newer lists has been getting me worried.

I only have 206 subscribers and have already gotten 15 complaints. I really haven't been doing anything out of the ordinary besides for switching to single opt-in.

Here is my scheduling: day 0,1,3,5,7,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,34,38,42,46,50,54 ,58,61,65,69,73

Could it be that I am emailing them too often in the beginning?

I have been fairly lax with my promotions - one decent tip with each email and promo of only one single product(in each email) throughout my entire newsletter series.

Am I getting worked up over nothing, or is 7% complaint rate something I should concerned about?

[Steven Fullman]

What's your general niche, Daniel?

[fmn999]

Looks like it might be too many messages. You might want to extend the days between messages also

[theimdude]

Why did you switch to single optin. Pending on what you offer to signup I will also complain of I get that many messages in a single optin.

I just checked and if you are talking about you free ebook on the page in your sig then change it to double optin as that is not a optin and can be classified spam.

[radhika]

Implement Double opt-in, so you be sure that you are not sending emails to addresses that are not actually entered by others.

.

[Daniel Brock]

This particular opt-in is for a new health niche I am working in.

I have been reading a lot that double opt in reduces subscriptions. I used to use D-opt in for awhile, but noticed that 40% of my subscribers never confirmed it.

I don't think these are fake subscribers or people putting in someone elses email because this the traffic is straight up PPC traffic - so the person is definitely interested in the topic or else why would they search it to begin with.

Maybe I will just have to live with it considering all these complaints so far...

Perhaps my mailing is to frequent like suggested?

[Scott Ames]

Sometimes people report spam because they simply don't remember who the heck they are getting email from.

Here are some ideas to help, and yes, I've violated them all so don't kill me.

1. Have a consistent return address (from) . Don't use "Magic Marketing" one time and "Joe Blow" another time.

2. Put a header above your messages. Something like " You are getting this message because you are on my list... yada yada" For a good example subscribe to Steven Wagenheims list.

3. Offer pure golden content before you pitch something,either in the same email or above the pitch.

4. Try not to sound spammy (whatever that means) in your pitches. No !!!!!!! all over the place,,, no $$$$$ or wow wow !!

5. If using an affiliate product, don't copy and mail the boiler plate email they have created unless by agreement you must. All they need to do is get another duplicate from someone else and they think its spam.

6. Make sure your html email is readable and doesn't come out as junk. Test before you mail.

7. Test before you mail. Test before you mail, no matter what. You'll catch those [firstname] errors, bad spelling, cut off lines, etc.

8. When people sign up, let them know the frequency. If you send often, offer them a less often option on another list, or a digest.

[vagabondette]

that seems like a lot of messages. particularly if you're promoting a product in each one. I'd cry spam too. Try cutting down on both the number of messages and the number of promos. You want people to think they're getting something of value not just being pumped to buy something every other day.

[Steven Fullman]

Are you wandering off topic?

Look at your opt-in text. Do your emails give your subscribers the info you promised them?

Really?

Don't change your email content, or your frequency. Change your opt-in message.

My guess: You'd have gotten 191 subscribers and no spam complaints if you did that from the start.

Steve

[Daniel Brock]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I am going to knock out some of my promos and spread out my email frequency a tad.

I appreciate everyone's input!

[ppcpimp]

7% is way too high. It has to be the content or perception of your emails. You could email your list 2x/day if you were giving them something they wanted or didn't feel was spammy. Obviously that might be an over statement but hopefully you catch the meaning. I would go back and re-examine the content and/or layout of your mail.

[Charann Miller]

7% is significant enough to notice and unless it was information I absolutely wanted and was pertinent to what I needed at the time, I would probably get a little irritated if I was emailed every couple of days especially if it was primarily promotional stuff.

But yip, basically what's been said, a nice cocktail of useful info mixed in with promotional and lessen the frequency, instead of going from 2 days apart in the beginning to 4 days keep it to 2 emails per week or every 3 days and keep inline with that regular consistency.

[Jason Fladlien]

I guarantee you're not mailing them too much - I sometimes mail certain lists three times a day and I have a tiny, tiny amount of spam complaints. And that's with single optin.

It all starts with how they're getting on your list. If you don't mind sharing, show us your squeeze page. My guess is this is where the problem lies.

-Jason

[KristiDaniels]

I have never ever had a problem sending too often.

My unsubscribe rate sometimes increases, but my spam complaint rate always decreases when I increase the frequency.

I always send every day to every list because of that.

Think of it the other way around. Have you ever abandoned a list for awhile to focus on something else and then noticed it months later with more subscribers than you thought?

I have. I bet you have too. What do we always do? We try to revive it by sending something new to them. What always happens? We get a lot of spam complaints.

The same thing happens when we only send monthly. They forget about us and assume we are strangers sending spam. So they hit the spam button. That happens less often if you send weekly. It happens even less often when you send every other day. It hardly ever happens if the reader sees an email from you every single day.

That is the next thing I would make sure I am doing. Make sure every email is consistent in a few ways. Make sure the from name is the same. Make sure your headlines are consistent. Do you always capitalize the first letter of each word? Don't change that for one or two emails or you will get the spam button pushed.

Do you always use 3 or 4 words on the subject line? Guess what happens when you use 7 or 8 words one day? Spam complaints increase.

Do you always put something at the beginning of the subject line like the list name or your company name in brackets in uppercase? Something like this:

Subject: [MONEY MAKERS EZINE:] 7 Steps to Increase Sales

That is good. If you aren't, then consider something like that but shorter and applicable to your market. But once you do it, make sure you stay consistent and always do it. The day you don't, you will receive spam complaints.

Did you keep your promise? If you promised a 7 part ecourse, then you better keep your promise or you will get spam complaints. If you send them part one and part two and then switch off to a promotion for something else on day 3 then you will get spam complaints on day 3.

If you promise a video course and you switch to text for one of the lessons, you will get spam complaints.

After you have kept your promise a lot of people will then switch to something else. After the 7 day ecourse that was promised, you might give a bonus 8th chapter. Then you might give a pdf ebook the next day. Then you might ease into promoting something by video. That is usually fine, but you may have a slightly elevated spam complaint rate on the days right after you switch gears after you kept your promise.

Finally you might be doing everything right and delivering exactly what you promised and being very consistent letting them know who you are and keeping fresh in their mind by emailing them daily and still get a ton of spam complaints based on the market.

I have run into that twice. One time the market was work at home moms. I targeted the completely inexperienced for one campaign. These were the WAHMs that are interested in clicking ads and reviewing them for 20 seconds for a penny or filling our surveys for $1/hour. I actually offered them something significantly better than they had already been exposed to.

I had a huge spam complaint rate of 3 or 4%. I finally contacted a few to find out why they were clicking the spam button. They usually had me confused with another program. They were just mad at the world because they had recently been ripped off several times in my market. It wasn't me. It was just the market.

Another time was really weird. It wasn't a commercial list. It was a list for people who worked for me as free lancers. I sent daily announcements about new kinds of work I had available that they could bid on. I also had a 2%-3% spam complaint rate. Then they would complain because they weren't receiving the announcements anymore. I talked to a few and figured out that the freelancers who signed up simply received too much mail from all sources. They missed mine even though I put a "[MY NEW PROJECTS: ]" at the beginning of the subject line. I had to quit doing that and make them go to a page on my web-site every day without waiting for an email from me.

I hope that helps. Set it up for double opt-in. The extra subscribers you are getting with single opt-in are not worth the spam complaints. Be consistent with from and subject lines and even email formats. Make sure you give them exactly what you promised when they signed up. Make sure unsubscribe links are obvious. Make sure you aren't in a trouble market where nothing you do can help. Make sure you email daily or at least every other day so they don't forget who you are.

I hope that helps.

[jhongren]

Originally Posted by Jason Fladlien

I guarantee you're not mailing them too much - I sometimes mail certain lists three times a day and I have a tiny, tiny amount of spam complaints. And that's with single optin.

It all starts with how they're getting on your list. If you don't mind sharing, show us your squeeze page. My guess is this is where the problem lies.

-Jason

Adding to what Jason has said,
I sometimes mail my list around 3 times
a day.

It really depends on the messages you
have for them.

Are they of high value?
Are the emails what they want?
Are the emails making a difference to their lives?

So if u can show us your squeeze page, we
are here to help.

John

[Kevin Riley]

Single opt-in?

You're just asking for trouble. You get a lot of crappy subscribers and you don't have a leg to stand on when you get spam complaints.

All my lists are double opt-in, and I rarely get spam complaints. When I do, it's some lost soul and counts for 1 complaint per a few thousand subscribers.

[FBisMoney]

Go with double opt-in Daniel. Those who do not confirm are likely not going to buy anything from you anyways and your list quality is going to be significantly better if you use double-opt.

[Daniel Brock]

Wow good replies! I can only pin point the SPAM complaints due to the single opt-in. I have been using very similar tactics with my other lists(all double opt-in) and get maybe 2 SPAM complaints per 600 subscribers.

What is it about double opt-in that makes the list more responsive and less receptive to SPAM complaints?

Is it just that extra step helps burn your name into the prospects mind? They say 'yes' to your email confirmation, so in their minds they have already said 'yes' to the rest of the emails?

Compared to a single opt in where the person sees your emails and thinks, 'why is this guy sending me this stuff? I already got his free ______'

[Vaan]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Single opt-in?

You're just asking for trouble. You get a lot of crappy subscribers and you don't have a leg to stand on when you get spam complaints.

All my lists are double opt-in, and I rarely get spam complaints. When I do, it's some lost soul and counts for 1 complaint per a few thousand subscribers.

Hi kevin,

If they are double optin, but they use their alternate email, what's your opinions??

It's because everyone is smart that they have alternate email for optin to something,

Maybe any other way to solve that's issue?

Regards,
vaan

[Amelia O]

Frankly, I'd stick with the double-optin.

Was wondering the spam complaints could be due to your single opt-in.

With the double-optin, make sure to schedule an instant follow-up informing them that they will hear from you soon/again.

That decreases my subscribers BUT those that opted in are highly targeted and people that are willing to hear from me again.

Communicate with your list. Never let them have the idea that you are just some robots sending out scheduled mails.

Hope to hear good news from you.

Cheers!

[secretjustin]

How about sending out a helpful insightful email. And in it, ask about the frequency of emails being sent. Or ask for some sort of feedback?

I don't deal with lists so this may be a bad idea. But it would come off as being more human I would think?

[Peter Clarke]

I would echo some of the comments above, double opting protects you from some of the more unreasonable individuals who 'change their mind' but chose to complain rather than ask you to remove them.

Double opt in, with an audit trail and third party verification will help avoid the aweful situation of having your account suspended - and all the business implications this can have. And if they won't double opt in, they are weak customers anyway.

[theimdude]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brock

Wow good replies! I can only pin point the SPAM complaints due to the single opt-in. I have been using very similar tactics with my other lists(all double opt-in) and get maybe 2 SPAM complaints per 600 subscribers.

What is it about double opt-in that makes the list more responsive and less receptive to SPAM complaints?

Is it just that extra step helps burn your name into the prospects mind? They say 'yes' to your email confirmation, so in their minds they have already said 'yes' to the rest of the emails?

Compared to a single opt in where the person sees your emails and thinks, 'why is this guy sending me this stuff? I already got his free ______'

I am amazed at the amount of people actaully suggesting doing a single optin which is as far as know then become spam. I subscribe to lists a lot and if it is not a double-optin and I get email I will treat is as spam as well.

Do we have enough problems with spam already so why now trying to encourage it?

I suppose Daniel when your service provider cancel you hosting as there IP got blacklisted you will understand why double opt-in in the only way to go.

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by ppcpimp

7% is way too high. It has to be the content or perception of your emails. You could email your list 2x/day if you were giving them something they wanted or didn't feel was spammy. Obviously that might be an over statement but hopefully you catch the meaning. I would go back and re-examine the content and/or layout of your mail.

If I got 2 messages a day from anyone, I would ban it to my spam folder without hesitation. I think the OP is emailing too frequently. In addition, if this is supposed to be a newsletter, put more tips in it ... more news. Try sending some with just news and tips.

One tip and one promo sounds a great deal like spam to me.

[mfleisch]

Your number seems really high. In my opinion, SPAM rates should be less than one percent but ideally around .5%. You may want to focus on where you're getting your names from. I find that they have to be VERY niche specific to keep them engages and delivering value.

[klinvie]

Daniel I would focus on having them double optin but implement a strategy to have them confirm. For example: what if you gave them a gift to confirm the email. something they would have to confirm in order to recive. Just keep in mine that you would have to make the gift have just as much or more value as the reason they subscribed in the first place.

Hope that help

klinvie

[opportunites]

As a marketer, you suscribers need to perceive you as a guide, a leader/expert in your domain (niche)When you ask them "to check their inbox and confirm" you are giving them an oder... If they follow it, that's the first sign that they are ready to follow your recomendations next time you will promote something!Only Double op-in can allow you to do that!Also, I thank advantage to thank all the warrios in this thread... I'm learning alot from this experience!

[vagabondette]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If I got 2 messages a day from anyone, I would ban it to my spam folder without hesitation. I think the OP is emailing too frequently. In addition, if this is supposed to be a newsletter, put more tips in it ... more news. Try sending some with just news and tips.

One tip and one promo sounds a great deal like spam to me.

I agree. anyone who shows up in my in-box more than once a day is spamming, no ifs, ands or buts about it. And, if they send a promo more than once or twice a week they're spamming. This is why I've been unsubscribing like crazy from lists lately. People preach quality over quantity for article marketing - well the same applies to email marketing.

I'd be interested in knowing what the open rates are for those who are emailing multiple times a day and if they've run split tests to see where the number are for only single emails.

[bobsstuff]

A possible answer to SPAM complaints is that people do not know they are signing up for a newsletter.

I often sign up to a free IM report. A lot of the times there is no indication on the sign up form that I will get a free report BUT I will also be put on a mailing list.

Because I am involved in IM, I know I am subscribing to newsletter. People getting a free health report might not know you will continue to email them after they get the report.

[Paul Myers]

Bob nailed it. There's nothing on that page telling anyone they're signing up for anything. Bang. You're spamming.

As for the people who says, "If I sign up and then XYZ, it's spamming" - go away. You're clueless, and dangerous to rational people.


Paul

[vagabondette]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Bob nailed it. There's nothing on that page telling anyone they're signing up for anything. Bang. You're spamming.

As for the people who says, "If I sign up and then XYZ, it's spamming" - go away. You're clueless, and dangerous to rational people.


Paul

I'm clueless, dangerous and irrational because I don't want to receive 5 emails a day promoting random crap that everyone else in the world is promoting? Really?

Just because I'm interested in x doesn't mean I want to hear about it and every product even remotely related to it (and many that aren't) multiple times a day.

I once signed up for a newsletter and the content was great. I got an email every other day with great information and relevant product info a couple times a week. Then the guy went off the deep end. I started getting 2-3 emails a day, each with a product pitch and very little useful information. One day he sent *11 product pitches*.

Are you really saying that just because I signed up to receive a newsletter I shoudn't consider being pitched to 11 separate times in a single day to be spam?

Sorry but IMO that's the clueless, dangerous and irrational view.

If you're providing value, you can email me until the cows come home but in my experience, no one who is sending mutiple emails each day with multiple pitches is adding any value to anything other than their bottom line.

[SantiSantana]

I hope my following suggestion has not been made yet, i read the first few responses but the thread seemed a bit long for my mood (just woke up), but I have an idea that might work for you.

One of the lists I'm subscribed to does the following: rather than send me the email with the content plus the promo stuff, they send me a notification that a new post has been added to her blog about topic XXX, followed by a link that takes me straight to that post.

Being her website, she oviously has it optimized already with all the promo stuff and everything else.

Another list I'm in, by Tim Lowe, has a reminder that let's me know I'm receiving the mails because I subscribed to his list on xx/xx/xx. I suppose there is a script grabing the dates for each receiver.

A combination of both approaches might allow you to keep the single opt-in and reduce, or even eliminate spam complaints.

Hope it helps

[Paul Myers]

I'm clueless, dangerous and irrational because I don't want to receive 5 emails a day promoting random crap that everyone else in the world is promoting? Really?

Nope. You're clueless and dangerous because you call it spam, which encourages others to think the same way. That gets into all sorts of nasty stuff that's dangerous to every single sender of legitimate bulk email.

It may be annoying, but the correct option is to unsubscribe, not treat mail you signed up for as spam.


Paul

[vagabondette]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Nope. You're clueless and dangerous because you call it spam, which encourages others to think the same way. That gets into all sorts of nasty stuff that's dangerous to every single sender of legitimate bulk email.

It may be annoying, but the correct option is to unsubscribe, not treat mail you signed up for as spam.


Paul

I do unsubscribe. I've only hit the spam button once and that was because when I unsubscribed they didn't remove me from the list.

However, I still consider those emails to be spam. I signed up to receive a helpful newsletter not every info product pitch under the sun.

If you tell your list members when they sign up that they're going to receive great, helpful info daily and then send a one line tip followed by an 8 paragraph product pitch then IMO it's spam because you're not giving what you said you were going to give. However, if you make it clear that you're going to be sending them information about products you think they'll be interested in then it's not a problem.

It comes back to what others mentioned: make sure your members know what they're going to get and how often they'll get it before they sign up. As long as you're clear and you stick to that it shouldn't be a problem. But calling something a newsletter when it's 1% news and 99% pitch is misrepresentation at best.

[Paul Myers]

I do unsubscribe. I've only hit the spam button once and that was because when I unsubscribed they didn't remove me from the list.

In that case, the emails following a failed unsubscribe are spam, or (in the rare case where it's a technical glitch) should be treated like it.

However, I still consider those emails to be spam. I signed up to receive a helpful newsletter not every info product pitch under the sun.

If the list's topics were misrepresented, there's a valid argument to be made that they're spam. If they simply weren't spelled out, that's on you for signing up.

The objection to your first post, and from others in this thread, is calling mail from a list you signed up for "spam," without qualifying the statement. That encourages people to hit the spam button any time they see something that isn't exactly what they want, or read something with which they disagree.

That's dangerous.


Paul

[Daniel Brock]

Would you all agree that having a promo in every one of your emails is generally a bad idea? I have seen it done often in the MMO niche, but anything outside of that....

Maybe put a promo every other email?

[PaulWilson]

I think a promo in every email is too much personally. Your series should be a mixture of free content and promo emails.

You want to build relationships with these people, not just try to sell to them at every opportunity in my opinion.

As far as the single opt-in goes. I used to use single opt-in, but now use double opt-in for everything. Initially my opt-in rate went down a bit, but the way I look at it, it just eliminates the freebie seekers, and false email addresses. If people can't be bothered to double opt-in or put a false address in, they're not worth having on your list anyway.

Paul

[Daniel Brock]

Hey guys and girls.

I just wanted to update you all to let you know that I solved the problem and how I did it.

I kept single opt in on - I just couldn't make myself turn it off because I was afraid of doubling my cost of conversion.

All I did was remove some of the promos from my first two weeks of the newsletter.

So the first 2 weeks look like this:

Day 0[no promo], Day 1[no promo], Day 3[promo], Day 5[no promo], day 7[no promo], Day 10[promo].

And in order to make the initial sale for those people looking to buy, I basically moved my promo to the ebook and onto the thank you page after they opt-in.

Hope that helps everyone.

[butters]

I am new and all but not upselling for 2 weeks after they optin? Isn't that a bit long, I would of just give them the option at the bottom of the email to opt out of the list and just left it at that... Who knows, maybe I am completely wrong