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| | #1 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008
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Hello everyone. I was wondering your thoughts no what is an acceptable number of SPAM complains per subscriber ratio, and some ways to reduce it. One of my newer lists has been getting me worried. I only have 206 subscribers and have already gotten 15 complaints. I really haven't been doing anything out of the ordinary besides for switching to single opt-in. Here is my scheduling: day 0,1,3,5,7,9,12,15,18,21,24,27,30,34,38,42,46,50,54 ,58,61,65,69,73 Could it be that I am emailing them too often in the beginning? I have been fairly lax with my promotions - one decent tip with each email and promo of only one single product(in each email) throughout my entire newsletter series. Am I getting worked up over nothing, or is 7% complaint rate something I should concerned about? |
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| | #2 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: London, England
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What's your general niche, Daniel?
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| | #3 |
| Warrior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Jersey
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Looks like it might be too many messages. You might want to extend the days between messages also
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| | #4 |
| Hooked on Gansbaai War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: here, and everywhere
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Why did you switch to single optin. Pending on what you offer to signup I will also complain of I get that many messages in a single optin. I just checked and if you are talking about you free ebook on the page in your sig then change it to double optin as that is not a optin and can be classified spam. |
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| | #5 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Jamaica.
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Implement Double opt-in, so you be sure that you are not sending emails to addresses that are not actually entered by others. . |
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| | #6 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008
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This particular opt-in is for a new health niche I am working in. I have been reading a lot that double opt in reduces subscriptions. I used to use D-opt in for awhile, but noticed that 40% of my subscribers never confirmed it. I don't think these are fake subscribers or people putting in someone elses email because this the traffic is straight up PPC traffic - so the person is definitely interested in the topic or else why would they search it to begin with. Maybe I will just have to live with it considering all these complaints so far... Perhaps my mailing is to frequent like suggested? |
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| | #7 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: West of Rockies
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Sometimes people report spam because they simply don't remember who the heck they are getting email from. Here are some ideas to help, and yes, I've violated them all so don't kill me. 1. Have a consistent return address (from) . Don't use "Magic Marketing" one time and "Joe Blow" another time. 2. Put a header above your messages. Something like " You are getting this message because you are on my list... yada yada" For a good example subscribe to Steven Wagenheims list. 3. Offer pure golden content before you pitch something,either in the same email or above the pitch. 4. Try not to sound spammy (whatever that means) in your pitches. No !!!!!!! all over the place,,, no $$$$$ or wow wow !! 5. If using an affiliate product, don't copy and mail the boiler plate email they have created unless by agreement you must. All they need to do is get another duplicate from someone else and they think its spam. 6. Make sure your html email is readable and doesn't come out as junk. Test before you mail. 7. Test before you mail. Test before you mail, no matter what. You'll catch those [firstname] errors, bad spelling, cut off lines, etc. 8. When people sign up, let them know the frequency. If you send often, offer them a less often option on another list, or a digest. |
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| | #8 |
| HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Currently in Mexico
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that seems like a lot of messages. particularly if you're promoting a product in each one. I'd cry spam too. Try cutting down on both the number of messages and the number of promos. You want people to think they're getting something of value not just being pumped to buy something every other day.
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| | #9 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: London, England
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Are you wandering off topic? Look at your opt-in text. Do your emails give your subscribers the info you promised them? Really? Don't change your email content, or your frequency. Change your opt-in message. My guess: You'd have gotten 191 subscribers and no spam complaints if you did that from the start. Steve |
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| | #10 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008
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Thanks for the tips everyone. I am going to knock out some of my promos and spread out my email frequency a tad. I appreciate everyone's input! |
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| | #11 |
| We own niches Join Date: Jul 2009
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7% is way too high. It has to be the content or perception of your emails. You could email your list 2x/day if you were giving them something they wanted or didn't feel was spammy. Obviously that might be an over statement but hopefully you catch the meaning. I would go back and re-examine the content and/or layout of your mail.
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| | #12 |
| Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand
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7% is significant enough to notice and unless it was information I absolutely wanted and was pertinent to what I needed at the time, I would probably get a little irritated if I was emailed every couple of days especially if it was primarily promotional stuff. But yip, basically what's been said, a nice cocktail of useful info mixed in with promotional and lessen the frequency, instead of going from 2 days apart in the beginning to 4 days keep it to 2 emails per week or every 3 days and keep inline with that regular consistency. |
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| | #13 |
| HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Iowa City, IA, USA.
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I guarantee you're not mailing them too much - I sometimes mail certain lists three times a day and I have a tiny, tiny amount of spam complaints. And that's with single optin. It all starts with how they're getting on your list. If you don't mind sharing, show us your squeeze page. My guess is this is where the problem lies. -Jason |
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| | #14 |
| InternetBusinessBox.com Join Date: Sep 2009
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I have never ever had a problem sending too often. My unsubscribe rate sometimes increases, but my spam complaint rate always decreases when I increase the frequency. I always send every day to every list because of that. Think of it the other way around. Have you ever abandoned a list for awhile to focus on something else and then noticed it months later with more subscribers than you thought? I have. I bet you have too. What do we always do? We try to revive it by sending something new to them. What always happens? We get a lot of spam complaints. The same thing happens when we only send monthly. They forget about us and assume we are strangers sending spam. So they hit the spam button. That happens less often if you send weekly. It happens even less often when you send every other day. It hardly ever happens if the reader sees an email from you every single day. That is the next thing I would make sure I am doing. Make sure every email is consistent in a few ways. Make sure the from name is the same. Make sure your headlines are consistent. Do you always capitalize the first letter of each word? Don't change that for one or two emails or you will get the spam button pushed. Do you always use 3 or 4 words on the subject line? Guess what happens when you use 7 or 8 words one day? Spam complaints increase. Do you always put something at the beginning of the subject line like the list name or your company name in brackets in uppercase? Something like this: Subject: [MONEY MAKERS EZINE:] 7 Steps to Increase Sales That is good. If you aren't, then consider something like that but shorter and applicable to your market. But once you do it, make sure you stay consistent and always do it. The day you don't, you will receive spam complaints. Did you keep your promise? If you promised a 7 part ecourse, then you better keep your promise or you will get spam complaints. If you send them part one and part two and then switch off to a promotion for something else on day 3 then you will get spam complaints on day 3. If you promise a video course and you switch to text for one of the lessons, you will get spam complaints. After you have kept your promise a lot of people will then switch to something else. After the 7 day ecourse that was promised, you might give a bonus 8th chapter. Then you might give a pdf ebook the next day. Then you might ease into promoting something by video. That is usually fine, but you may have a slightly elevated spam complaint rate on the days right after you switch gears after you kept your promise. Finally you might be doing everything right and delivering exactly what you promised and being very consistent letting them know who you are and keeping fresh in their mind by emailing them daily and still get a ton of spam complaints based on the market. I have run into that twice. One time the market was work at home moms. I targeted the completely inexperienced for one campaign. These were the WAHMs that are interested in clicking ads and reviewing them for 20 seconds for a penny or filling our surveys for $1/hour. I actually offered them something significantly better than they had already been exposed to. I had a huge spam complaint rate of 3 or 4%. I finally contacted a few to find out why they were clicking the spam button. They usually had me confused with another program. They were just mad at the world because they had recently been ripped off several times in my market. It wasn't me. It was just the market. Another time was really weird. It wasn't a commercial list. It was a list for people who worked for me as free lancers. I sent daily announcements about new kinds of work I had available that they could bid on. I also had a 2%-3% spam complaint rate. Then they would complain because they weren't receiving the announcements anymore. I talked to a few and figured out that the freelancers who signed up simply received too much mail from all sources. They missed mine even though I put a "[MY NEW PROJECTS: ]" at the beginning of the subject line. I had to quit doing that and make them go to a page on my web-site every day without waiting for an email from me. I hope that helps. Set it up for double opt-in. The extra subscribers you are getting with single opt-in are not worth the spam complaints. Be consistent with from and subject lines and even email formats. Make sure you give them exactly what you promised when they signed up. Make sure unsubscribe links are obvious. Make sure you aren't in a trouble market where nothing you do can help. Make sure you email daily or at least every other day so they don't forget who you are. I hope that helps. |
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| | #15 | |
| JohnYeo.name War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Singapore
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I sometimes mail my list around 3 times a day. It really depends on the messages you have for them. Are they of high value? Are the emails what they want? Are the emails making a difference to their lives? So if u can show us your squeeze page, we are here to help. John | |
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| | #16 |
| Clockwork Hamster King War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Beautiful Downtown Osaka, Japan just minutes away from all the Sushi, Okonomiyaki, and Izakayas
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Single opt-in? You're just asking for trouble. You get a lot of crappy subscribers and you don't have a leg to stand on when you get spam complaints. All my lists are double opt-in, and I rarely get spam complaints. When I do, it's some lost soul and counts for 1 complaint per a few thousand subscribers. |
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| | #17 |
| FBisMoney.com War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Miami, FL
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Go with double opt-in Daniel. Those who do not confirm are likely not going to buy anything from you anyways and your list quality is going to be significantly better if you use double-opt.
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| | #18 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008
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Wow good replies! I can only pin point the SPAM complaints due to the single opt-in. I have been using very similar tactics with my other lists(all double opt-in) and get maybe 2 SPAM complaints per 600 subscribers. What is it about double opt-in that makes the list more responsive and less receptive to SPAM complaints? Is it just that extra step helps burn your name into the prospects mind? They say 'yes' to your email confirmation, so in their minds they have already said 'yes' to the rest of the emails? Compared to a single opt in where the person sees your emails and thinks, 'why is this guy sending me this stuff? I already got his free ______' |
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| | #19 | |
| KeywordMadness.com Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: singapore
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If they are double optin, but they use their alternate email, what's your opinions?? It's because everyone is smart that they have alternate email for optin to something, Maybe any other way to solve that's issue? Regards, vaan | |
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| | #20 |
| Active Warrior Join Date: Aug 2009
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Frankly, I'd stick with the double-optin. Was wondering the spam complaints could be due to your single opt-in. With the double-optin, make sure to schedule an instant follow-up informing them that they will hear from you soon/again. That decreases my subscribers BUT those that opted in are highly targeted and people that are willing to hear from me again. Communicate with your list. Never let them have the idea that you are just some robots sending out scheduled mails. Hope to hear good news from you. Cheers! |
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| | #21 |
| Currently at war! War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: 千葉、日本
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How about sending out a helpful insightful email. And in it, ask about the frequency of emails being sent. Or ask for some sort of feedback? I don't deal with lists so this may be a bad idea. But it would come off as being more human I would think? |
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| | #22 |
| Warrior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: London, UK
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I would echo some of the comments above, double opting protects you from some of the more unreasonable individuals who 'change their mind' but chose to complain rather than ask you to remove them. Double opt in, with an audit trail and third party verification will help avoid the aweful situation of having your account suspended - and all the business implications this can have. And if they won't double opt in, they are weak customers anyway. |
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| | #23 | |
| Hooked on Gansbaai War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: here, and everywhere
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I am amazed at the amount of people actaully suggesting doing a single optin which is as far as know then become spam. I subscribe to lists a lot and if it is not a double-optin and I get email I will treat is as spam as well. Do we have enough problems with spam already so why now trying to encourage it? I suppose Daniel when your service provider cancel you hosting as there IP got blacklisted you will understand why double opt-in in the only way to go. | |
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| | #24 | |
| Suzanne War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Virginia, USA.
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One tip and one promo sounds a great deal like spam to me. | |
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| | #25 |
| Internet Marketing Expert Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Robbinsville, NJ
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Your number seems really high. In my opinion, SPAM rates should be less than one percent but ideally around .5%. You may want to focus on where you're getting your names from. I find that they have to be VERY niche specific to keep them engages and delivering value.
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| | #26 |
| Active Warrior Join Date: Jun 2009
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Daniel I would focus on having them double optin but implement a strategy to have them confirm. For example: what if you gave them a gift to confirm the email. something they would have to confirm in order to recive. Just keep in mine that you would have to make the gift have just as much or more value as the reason they subscribed in the first place. Hope that help klinvie |
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| | #27 |
| HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009
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As a marketer, you suscribers need to perceive you as a guide, a leader/expert in your domain (niche)When you ask them "to check their inbox and confirm" you are giving them an oder... If they follow it, that's the first sign that they are ready to follow your recomendations next time you will promote something!Only Double op-in can allow you to do that!Also, I thank advantage to thank all the warrios in this thread... I'm learning alot from this experience!
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| | #28 | |
| HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Currently in Mexico
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I'd be interested in knowing what the open rates are for those who are emailing multiple times a day and if they've run split tests to see where the number are for only single emails. | |
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| | #29 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: So Calif USA.
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A possible answer to SPAM complaints is that people do not know they are signing up for a newsletter. I often sign up to a free IM report. A lot of the times there is no indication on the sign up form that I will get a free report BUT I will also be put on a mailing list. Because I am involved in IM, I know I am subscribing to newsletter. People getting a free health report might not know you will continue to email them after they get the report. |
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| | #30 |
| Zen Redneck War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Erie, PA
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Bob nailed it. There's nothing on that page telling anyone they're signing up for anything. Bang. You're spamming. As for the people who says, "If I sign up and then XYZ, it's spamming" - go away. You're clueless, and dangerous to rational people. Paul |
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| | #31 | |
| HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Currently in Mexico
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Just because I'm interested in x doesn't mean I want to hear about it and every product even remotely related to it (and many that aren't) multiple times a day. I once signed up for a newsletter and the content was great. I got an email every other day with great information and relevant product info a couple times a week. Then the guy went off the deep end. I started getting 2-3 emails a day, each with a product pitch and very little useful information. One day he sent *11 product pitches*. Are you really saying that just because I signed up to receive a newsletter I shoudn't consider being pitched to 11 separate times in a single day to be spam? Sorry but IMO that's the clueless, dangerous and irrational view. If you're providing value, you can email me until the cows come home but in my experience, no one who is sending mutiple emails each day with multiple pitches is adding any value to anything other than their bottom line. | |
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| | #32 |
| HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canary Islands - Spain
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I hope my following suggestion has not been made yet, i read the first few responses but the thread seemed a bit long for my mood (just woke up), but I have an idea that might work for you. One of the lists I'm subscribed to does the following: rather than send me the email with the content plus the promo stuff, they send me a notification that a new post has been added to her blog about topic XXX, followed by a link that takes me straight to that post. Being her website, she oviously has it optimized already with all the promo stuff and everything else. Another list I'm in, by Tim Lowe, has a reminder that let's me know I'm receiving the mails because I subscribed to his list on xx/xx/xx. I suppose there is a script grabing the dates for each receiver. A combination of both approaches might allow you to keep the single opt-in and reduce, or even eliminate spam complaints. Hope it helps |
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| | #33 | |
| Zen Redneck War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Erie, PA
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It may be annoying, but the correct option is to unsubscribe, not treat mail you signed up for as spam. Paul | |
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| | #34 | |
| HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Currently in Mexico
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However, I still consider those emails to be spam. I signed up to receive a helpful newsletter not every info product pitch under the sun. If you tell your list members when they sign up that they're going to receive great, helpful info daily and then send a one line tip followed by an 8 paragraph product pitch then IMO it's spam because you're not giving what you said you were going to give. However, if you make it clear that you're going to be sending them information about products you think they'll be interested in then it's not a problem. It comes back to what others mentioned: make sure your members know what they're going to get and how often they'll get it before they sign up. As long as you're clear and you stick to that it shouldn't be a problem. But calling something a newsletter when it's 1% news and 99% pitch is misrepresentation at best. | |
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| | #35 | ||
| Zen Redneck War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Erie, PA
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Quote:
The objection to your first post, and from others in this thread, is calling mail from a list you signed up for "spam," without qualifying the statement. That encourages people to hit the spam button any time they see something that isn't exactly what they want, or read something with which they disagree. That's dangerous. Paul | ||
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| | #36 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008
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Would you all agree that having a promo in every one of your emails is generally a bad idea? I have seen it done often in the MMO niche, but anything outside of that.... Maybe put a promo every other email? |
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| | #37 |
| Active Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2009
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I think a promo in every email is too much personally. Your series should be a mixture of free content and promo emails. You want to build relationships with these people, not just try to sell to them at every opportunity in my opinion. As far as the single opt-in goes. I used to use single opt-in, but now use double opt-in for everything. Initially my opt-in rate went down a bit, but the way I look at it, it just eliminates the freebie seekers, and false email addresses. If people can't be bothered to double opt-in or put a false address in, they're not worth having on your list anyway. Paul |
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| | #38 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008
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Hey guys and girls. I just wanted to update you all to let you know that I solved the problem and how I did it. I kept single opt in on - I just couldn't make myself turn it off because I was afraid of doubling my cost of conversion. All I did was remove some of the promos from my first two weeks of the newsletter. So the first 2 weeks look like this: Day 0[no promo], Day 1[no promo], Day 3[promo], Day 5[no promo], day 7[no promo], Day 10[promo]. And in order to make the initial sale for those people looking to buy, I basically moved my promo to the ebook and onto the thank you page after they opt-in. Hope that helps everyone. |
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| | #39 |
| Lee Bartlett War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Harlow, Essex, Uk
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I am new and all but not upselling for 2 weeks after they optin? Isn't that a bit long, I would of just give them the option at the bottom of the email to opt out of the list and just left it at that... Who knows, maybe I am completely wrong
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| | #40 |
| HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Amos Beach, 12 Miles North of Rhodes, Turkey
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| I signed up for a webinar recently. On registering I got a mail that told me that I had also registered for a complimentary newsletter. Bad move, not permission marketing. Stephen |
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| | #41 |
| Advanced Warrior Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lawrenceville GA
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I wonder if it's niche related. I have a health niche I've been building for a year and they are whiny as hell.
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| | #42 | |
| Happy Hooker War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North of the Peace River, Southwest Florida, USA.
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As for including a promo in every email, it depends on how you define the word "promo"... > If you mean a full-on, multi-paragraph product pitch in every email, that's probably too much. Removing promos from parts of your sequence solved your complaint problem. > If you mean any mention of a product for sale, it's possible to add a gentle promo in a PS. Give out your solid content, tell them when to expect the next message and what it will cover (if you know), then add a PS that's more of a helpful reminder than a full-on promotion. "PS - Just a reminder, you can still get [whatever deal] at [link] if you haven't done it yet." | |
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| | #43 |
| Samurai Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: CT
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7% spam rate is a killer. If you keep that up you could possibly get fined or your autoresponder shut down. Check your autoresponder TOS for spam complaints. I use infusion and if I go above 2% I risk getting the plug pulled. I have always received the highest spam complaints in the health niches. Just an fyi. It really comes down to your email content. There was really good advice given so I won't rehash. But if you're promoting to them without building any value or relationship, you're going to get high spam complaints. Heck, even if you're doing all the right things you're still going to get a few real jerks complaining on you. Unavoidable sometimes. It's really important to build value so that your readers know and trust you. The advice about reminding them why they're getting your emails is important. Good to do in every email. People may not open 1 of your emails until 25 down the road because a subject finally triggered it. So they still see the reason why they're getting the email. I do not mail solely to double opt ins. And I am at less than 1% complaints. Half my list don't double opt in. However, with infusion I am able to segment them. And I continually mail the non double opted in folks free stuff offers. When they click the link they're double opted in. Pretty cool. But keep in mind, double opted in people can complain on you too. Just don't bombard them with offers unless you're also bombarding them with value and you should be fine. |
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| | #44 |
| Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: U.S. Gulf Coast...
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Very interesting perspectives in this thread. Allow me to add my opinion and some stats. I offer an SEM e-Course. Whenever someone subscribes to the e-Course, they are not automatically subscribed to my newsletter. The e-Course doubles as a sales funnel. My goal is to add as much value to the e-Course as possible with an affiliate tool that they can check out about every third message in the series. Towards the end of the funnel, my offers switch from affiliate links to freebies that they must re-double opt-in for. This puts them on my permanent newsletter subscribers list. Just like traditional media, every issue contains an ad at the very top, then content for the rest of the newsletter. Out of all of these ads and offerings, surprisingly, the links that get the most clicks out of everything by a long shot (about 35%) are the ads at the top of my newsletter...go figure. |
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| | #45 |
| Dare To Be Different War Room Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: U.K.
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Hi, You might want to take note that post #40 bumped a year old thread before you start offering Daniel advice on his problem. It's more confusing because the day and the month are virtually the same. |
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| | #46 |
| Happy Hooker War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North of the Peace River, Southwest Florida, USA.
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| Salad is not food. Salad is what food eats... -- The REAL PETA, People for Eating Tasty Animals "I did not fight my way to the top of the food chain to eat tofu!" | |
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| | #47 |
| Samurai Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: CT
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There's still some really good advice in here though. Even if Daniel doesn't need it someone else might. |
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| | #48 |
| Senior Warrior Attorney War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Jedi Temple
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Dan, an update? To evaluate the issue I think one needs to have a feel for WHO is subscribing? When they subscribe what information are they expecting to receive? After subscribing, are they receiving what they expected? I think that last point is the key issue, but obviously influenced by the prior questions. After all, what would a person consider "spam"? - Too many emails? Maybe, but probably not if the content was awesome. - Too many ads? Maybe, or maybe they are swamping the content. - Content not directly on topic? This is a biggie and I see many IMers have a problem with. Subscribing to get info about X is not a license to start pimping Y and Z without clearly explaining how it is related to X. - Subscribers not "excited" enough about the topic to get so many emails. Example: my elderly mom subscribes to get some information you're offering, but is just looking for a one-time dose of information. Suddenly she is getting emails all the time and clicks the spam button. |
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| | #49 |
| Content & Copywriting Wiz War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Roselle, NJ, USA
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Here's the straight dope, like it or not. Doesn't matter if people are actually searching for your offer. Once they hit that squeeze page, many people do NOT want to give their email addresses. So they stick any old address in there. Sadly, way too many times, it's either somebody else they know or an a address that actually exists. Then that person gets the email, says "What the $#!T?" and reports it as spam. You are playing with a loaded gun with single opt in. Can it work? Sure. But IMO, it isn't worth the risks. My 2 cents on the subject. |
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| | #50 | |
| Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bakersfield, CA
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