The FTC sued me out of business two years ago yesterday- here is my story

[bobsedge]

These latest rule changes have triggered a number of threads on this forum over the past week or so.

I've been reading as many as possible and I feel compelled to step in and offer my unique perspective. As you can imagine, it's not easy doing this but I feel there have been many fallacies and misconceptions with regards to the FTC and how they act.

I also think I can help provide some insight on how to avoid problems.

On October 11, 2007 I was forced to stipulate away my 12 year old company and turn it over to receivers for the FTC.

I started the company in 1995 with $5,000 and built it into a $6 million a year business within five years.

The business was in the debt settlement industry. I think I was one of the founding fathers along with a few companies in California. In 1998, a bank thought so much of our model that they invested $600,000 in us and became a minority owner.

Because of our relationship with the bank, we were able to institute certain procedures that no one else could.

For those of you not familiar with debt settlement, it is tough. You are dealing with consumers on the brink of bankruptcy and in many cases, emotionally wrecked.

After Bush took over in 2000, the government and its agencies started to become very pro-bank and started changing rules and laws to protect the banks. A few years later, a wave of actions against debt resolution firms were started mainly by regulatory agencies, AG's, and the FTC.

The industry became very tough because of competition and the economic climate leading to a surge of businesses entering the industry, some of them with not the best of intentions.

Let me hit some key points and I hope these help:

Fallacy #1: The FTC investigates for bad guys. I only wish this were true. Here is the way they work. They first decide on an industry then they find a company. They are not good investigators so if it's an industry not in their face (like in infomercials) they will turn to the Better Business Bureau (BBB) for recommendations. This is where I made my biggest mistake. For years, I had battled the BBB. I even sued them at one point (only to have it thrown out because they are exempt from lawsuit-another story).

Finally, the BBB tired of me and through my company under the bus. In 12 years we touched 40,000 households and had 25 complaints on record at the time. You do the math. At that was in a difficult industry. Giving you perspective, every major bank has thousands of complaints.

If I would have left the BBB alone I would still be in business today. I was not on tv or radio nor was I kicking but on the internet. The BBB was my only connection to the FTC.

But a better lesson is to avoid registered complaints whenever possible. If you do that, you will likely stay off the radar.

Other than the complaints, we had no other major lawsuits and no one ever accused us of fraud or stealing their money. The FTC even thanked the BBB for their help in the complaint.

Fallacy #2: The FTC will send you a warning to stop before they act. Well, here is the way it went down for me and every other business I know of that has gone through this. On October 1, 2007 it was business as usual. I was served on October 2. We were done on October 11. There was no warning.

Fallacy #3: If you are sued and you are honest the truth will come out in court. Well, there is no court. It is my nature to fight and that was my intent. The three claims they made were bogus. We were able to nullify any customer complaint because we taped every customer we signed up to make sure they understood the program.

I contacted a Madison Ave. FTC law firm that specialized in these things and hired them at $750/hr. When I mentioned fighting, they said sure, that will be a $1 million retainer. I was forced to plan my surrender.

In searching Google I found that only one company took the FTC to court and won, Amway. So the bottom line is that if you are sued by the FTC you are toast.

Fallacy #4: If you follow the rules you are safe. The truth is, they find the company they want to target first then they find ways you broke the rules. The FTC guidelines are vague for a reason. They want to have a broad brush in going after people. We put in all kind of safeguards in place to try to ensure consumer integrity. I'm sure we could have done better. But I know we were better than 90 percent of the businesses in the industry.

I'll tell you. I have not seen one long sales letter that wouldn't be torn apart by the FTC, Every single one would be in trouble. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, but they would twist your words to fit their needs. If you are targeted they will justify the reason.

Fallacy #5: The FTC's motives are to protect the consumer. This is only partially true. Everything they do is under the guise of protecting the consumers but there is a political agenda. But what the FTC is really after is publicity. They like press. I'm sure they will say it's because it acts as a deterrent, but I don't know. So you have a better chance of getting sued if you live in proximity of a metropolitan media area than if you live in the boon docks.

Here is the bottom line though. You probably have very little to worry about. The action taken against me was not as unpredictable as I first thought it was. I was in an industry that was targeted and I got on the radar of their watch dog, the BBB.

As for IMers, if you follow some basic guidelines, you will be fine.

1. Keep hype to a minimum. Don't go crazy with claims. It's really not that necessary anyway. Don't worry about these new rules so much because they are redundant anyway. As you are writing copy just ask yourself along the way if you can substantiate what you are saying if asked to. Just follow truth in marketing guidelines.

2. Stay away from targeted products. If I were you, I would stay away from selling Acai Berry for one. There already has been some rumblings there and the FTC loves to go after health related products. You can easily be caught up in the wrath if you are not careful. Before you start pitching a product Google the category to see if there are any waves of discontent.

3. Make upset customers go away. Be very generous with refunds. It's really not worth the fight and you never know who you are pissing off.

4. Take the limelight for what it's worth. There is a price to pay for becoming a guru, and that is exposure. Let's be honest, was Jeff Paul's infomercial any different than the many sales letters floating around out there. I don't think so. He made a decision to expose himself to scrutiny. I'm not saying don't do it, but understand the risks.

I hope this helps someone because I really don't wish the ordeal my family and I had to go through on anyone. It's been two years and I'm just now starting to emerge from the wreckage.

Bob

[garyv]

This sounds extremely frightening to me. However, if your company is already toast, why not give the name of it out here? It would better the credibility of your story.

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by garyv

This sounds extremely frightening to me. However, if your company is already toast, why not give the name of it out here? It would better the credibility of your story.

That's silly, but ok. The name of my company was Edge Solutions, Inc.

Why do I need to "better the credibility" of my story? who would make up such a thing

[garyv]

Originally Posted by bobsedge

That's silly, but ok. The name of my company was Edge Solutions, Inc.

Why do I need to "better the credibility" of my story? who would make up such a thing

I've seen grander tales than this told in this forum, only to find out later that none of it was true. Shoot, there are grander tales than this on many a clickbank sales page.

But to be honest, I don't know why anyone would make this up.

PS - I'm not calling you a liar. I'd just like to verify the truth. It would make your post even more potent.

[garyv]

Well that only took a short google search to find your story extremely credible. Thank you for posting it.

Federal Trade Commission, Plaintiff, v. Edge Solutions, Inc., et al

[bgmacaw]

Time to whip out the Rand again...

"Economic power is exercised by means of a positive, by offering men a reward, an incentive, a payment, a value; political power is exercised by means of a negative, by the threat of punishment, injury, imprisonment, destruction. The businessman's tool is values; the bureaucrat's tool is fear."

[Zach Booker]

I was just talking to someone else - last Thursday - who got taken down by the FTC and the story is basically the same. (Of course he was into different stuff though...)

It's really great to hear people with actual experience in this area talk about it.

Thanks for taking the time to make the post,

Zach

[David McKee]

This appalls me to the core - as I have said about the FTC on other posts, they, like all government, destroy everything it touches. And the reason is as clear as the Ayn Rand quote.

Makes me think there could be money in Ebooks that tell how to monkey wrench the government for underground black market gain, and how to set up your own hidden community - Galt's Gulch!

Grrrrrrr.

-DTM

[DogScout]

I was in the car biz for 25+ years. In that time 2 FTC regulations came out. Stickers on used cars disclosing warranties and the privacy laws.

The only dealerships targeted by the FTC were large multi-dealership conglomerates that were able to pay the fine. The USDA is a big fan of having any fines covering the investigation expenses. If a 'target' isn't worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, they won't spend the hundereds of thousands of dollars it takes to investigate them. In all the time the used car stickers have been required, I have seen plenty of large fines levied against large dealerships and never seen a small one (who are usually the biggest offenders) even looked at.

The other thing is, it isn't whether you are guilty or not, it is can they win a case or not. In America, we do not have a justice system, we have a legal system. It is mostly a game played with large stakes. If you are a small IMer, you could probably break any rule you want and they will ignore you. If you have a certain net worth... even if you do everything right, if they think they can talk a jury into returning a guilty verdict they are likely (or more likely) to show up.

The same applies to the privacy laws and the money laundering laws. I have only seen large companies investigated. In all those years I NEVER saw a small dealership that was not cash rich even looked at.

Mark

[DogScout]

(USDA = United States District Attorney)

[lisaann]

I'm sorry to hear about this Bob and wish you and your family some peace of mind with this now. I hope things are moving back on track for you.

Sincerely,

Lisa

[bobsedge]

Thanks guys. This post was partially therapy because the anniversary day is always tough.

The story is actually worse.

When the industry started getting beat up I made a conscious decision to transition out. I spent approximately four years developing an online software application to help people manage their finances, make decisions, etc. I had just launched it and was offering it for free.

I had refinanced my house and threw all of my resources into the project. Unfortunately for the FTC, I had very little money left by the time they got to me because it all went into this project.

Well, they got everything, even this software. It had nothing to do with debt settlement but they took it all.

And here is the worse part of all. My customers got royally screwed because in the end almost all of their money went into paying the FTC lawyers and accountants. That is the case with almost every FTC suit of this kind that I know of. So who exactly is being protected?

[LB]

I'm very sorry to hear your story...hopefully you can use this tragedy to rebuild your life for the better still.

I have tried to explain to people on this board that if you go up against a government agency- you lose. That's it. No fight, no test, no chance. You lose. If you're targeted then you've already lost.

[LB]

And here is the worse part of all. My customers got royally screwed because in the end almost all of their money went into paying the FTC lawyers and accountants. That is the case with almost every FTC suit of this kind that I know of. So who exactly is being protected?

But gee...aren't they there to protect us? They're super-nice-happy-friendly people! Just like all government agencies!

I hope some people here realize just how easily bad things can happen once the government gets involved.

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by lisaann

I'm sorry to hear about this Bob and wish you and your family some peace of mind with this now. I hope things are moving back on track for you.

Sincerely,

Lisa

Thanks Lisa.

This is not an easy process because it's not like losing a business the traditional way, which is not easy as well.

The local publicity and the google stigma is not pretty. It kind of follows you around everywhere you go. And my wife was involved in the business so she was dragged down with me.

For the first year I kind of stumbled along in a fog trying to figure out what to do next.

I'm finally at the point where I don't think about it every day.

[Zeus66]

Anyone who clings to the quaint belief that we're all "free" in America is naive in the extreme. Yes, you're free... as long as you follow all the rules and don't attract the attention of the entrenched bureaucracies. Just don't look them in the eye, bow obsequiously in their presence, and they might let you keep a few scraps.

Where is the modern day Thomas Paine when we really need him?

John

[Marian Berghes]

Man do you guys have some wacky legal system...its tough to beat a gov agency in my country too, but I know plenty of cases where people won against the "FTC" in my country.

And how the hell could they take your other project? that just doesn't make sense to me

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by LB

I'm very sorry to hear your story...hopefully you can use this tragedy to rebuild your life for the better still.

I have tried to explain to people on this board that if you go up against a government agency- you lose. That's it. No fight, no test, no chance. You lose. If you're targeted then you've already lost.

You could not be more right.

They are bullies with unlimited resources.

But do you know who I really have disdain for? The BBB.

That agency controls the welfare of so many businesses yet it is nothing more than a membership organization. If you are fortunate enough to be in an industry they approve of, they will take you in and shelter you. Complaints are essentially swept under the rug.

Thanks, I am rebuilding my life but truthfully, this is not a tragedy. There are so many worse things going on in the world that I made a conscious effort from day one of this not to indulge in self pity.

I use to tell my clients all the time that it's only money. In the end, that's all it really was for me and I would be a hypocrite to make it out to be more than what it is.

Sure, my ego and self confidence took a major hit. After all, none of us depict ourselves as a dishonest person and that was how this was being framed. And you would be shocked to discover how easy it is for people to think the worst. Employees that were with us for ten years started to question us. That was the ugly part.

But true friends and family were great. I think I will look back at some point and say that I am in a better place because of what went down. I'm not quite there yet, but hopefully soon...

[FBisMoney]

What a valuable post. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by Marian Berghes

Man do you guys have some wacky legal system...its tough to beat a gov agency in my country too, but I know plenty of cases where people won against the "FTC" in my country.

And how the hell could they take your other project? that just doesn't make sense to me

Here is the big difference in this country. Lawyers. The legal system is really geared toward the lawyers. If there is a lawsuit, lawyers win no matter the outcome. In other countries, the loser pays the legal expenses. Not here. Winning can kill you almost the same as losing.

The end result is that I really don't believe anything I read anymore. There is always a side you never hear.

As for my other project, I had it set up under a different corporation but the corporation and the project were housed in the same building. They lumped all my corporations together and took everything ( by the way, corporate protection means nothing when the government gets involved). I had no access to servers, pc's, etc.

The only thing I walked out with was 1000 books I had just published and they gave me a hard time about that as well.

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by FBisMoney

What a valuable post. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

I have spoken about my ordeal in the past but this is the first time I have really gone into this much detail.

I really value this forum and I was bothered that so many people had misconceptions. And perhaps it's the final stage of my own self-therapy.

[Rod Cortez]

Bob, thanx for sharing your story. I agree with everything you wrote about the FTC. They can be as bad, if not worse, bullies than the IRS. I also have contempt for the BBB. The BBB also tries to bully some businesses into paying them their monthly membership to have to deal with any "negative" complaints against them. I have shouting matches with those bastards on more than one occasion.

I think you have a great attitude about what happened to you and it will be instrumental in helping you move on. Take care.

RoD

[Marian Berghes]

Couldn't you get a court order or something against them taking the pc's and all that...by claiming something that you have valuable business data that could reach in competitor hands or something?

Like Facebook did with that company that sued them and asked for their source code so they can "check it out" for patent infringement...then facebook got a court order that allowed them to only show the parts that were directly related to the lawsuit.

Or against a gov agency this cant be done?

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

Bob, thanx for sharing your story. I agree with everything you wrote about the FTC. They can be as bad, if not worse, bullies than the IRS. I also have contempt for the BBB. The BBB also tries to bully some businesses into paying them their monthly membership to have to deal with any "negative" complaints against them. I have shouting matches with those bastards on more than one occasion.

I think you have a great attitude about what happened to you and it will be instrumental in helping you move on. Take care.

RoD

Rod,

I would never have advised this is the past but back off the BBB.

I am telling you that they have more power than you can imagine. And it's not just the FTC. They influence the AG's, DA, and the post office.

And speaking of the post office. I am fortunate to have not found this out but I understand that if the post office goes after you, it makes you wish it was the FTC. They are brutal and when they are involved, it's a federal crime.

The FTC is usually just civil.

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by Marian Berghes

Couldn't you get a court order or something against them taking the pc's and all that...by claiming something that you have valuable business data that could reach in competitor hands or something?

Like Facebook did with that company that sued them and asked for their source code so they can "check it out" for patent infringement...then facebook got a court order that allowed them to only show the parts that were directly related to the lawsuit.

Or against a gov agency this cant be done?

$1 million to start a defense.

Plus if anyone knows Joe Sugarman, ask him what happens when you fight back against the FTC. From what I understand, he lost everything.

[klinvie]

Thanks Bob for sharing your story. Surely make you think for sure. Can't be too careful no matter what you are selling these days!

[gjabiz]

Originally Posted by bobsedge

Here is the big difference in this country. Lawyers. The legal system is really geared toward the lawyers. If there is a lawsuit, lawyers win no matter the outcome. In other countries, the loser pays the legal expenses. Not here. Winning can kill you almost the same as losing.

The end result is that I really don't believe anything I read anymore. There is always a side you never hear.

As for my other project, I had it set up under a different corporation but the corporation and the project were housed in the same building. They lumped all my corporations together and took everything ( by the way, corporate protection means nothing when the government gets involved). I had no access to servers, pc's, etc.

The only thing I walked out with was 1000 books I had just published and they gave me a hard time about that as well.

Lawyers.

There is a "bounty" paid to attornies who bring a juicy case (read settlement) to the FTC table, and it is a career move on many AG's part to find cases (with the help of the BBB and others) that give them the spotlight.

A good read about how the FTC and for that matter, the FDA operate can be found in Ben Suarez' best selling book, 7 Steps to Freedom II. Also, the late Bud Weckesser of Green Tree Press, Inc. engaged in a long and costly battle with the FTC, the result...a very RARE apology from the FTC IN WRITING (its a remarkable document)...but it cost Bud over a MILLION dollars to get that apology.

An apology. OOOPS we's wrong, Sorry. But not one dime in legal fees recovered.

When a gov't pays bounty hunters to go after small businesses, you have to ask yourself if you want to be a "Face" on TV or a well known marketer that attacts a lot of attention...or is it better to Fly Low and Collect the Dough? Just something to consider as the spotlight, as PREDICTED over 3 years ago on many forums, is NOW shining on Internet marketers of all shapes and sizes. There will be much MORE of this to come.

Do some homework on the FTC, FDA, BBB, COC, etc. and you'll want to stay in your basement bat cave and not come out at all.

The best solution I've found, is AVOID the areas where they like to fish and get yourself a nice TOLL POSITION on a mundane consumable that is sold in Walmart every day and avoid the circus altogether.

THANKS Bob for sharing your story. It is personal, but NOT unique.

gjabiz

[Slin]

Dang...wow.

Well in better news my neighbor took the IRS to court and won.

[bobsedge]

gjabiz,

I always wanted to be a world beater, but not anymore.

Now, I'm just looking for more my thin slice of the pie. In another lifetime I'll be another Bill Gates.

[jacktackett]

Thanks Bob - very informative and helpful. I can imagine this was painful to dredge up again - but hopefully somewhat therapeutic.

I've often wondered about the BBC here. I've tried several times to lodge complaints - and against some high profile developers etc who I now know paid large membership fees. I don't have any proof except my own experiences - but what you've said here adds another data point to the mix. Our BBC makes lodging complaints pretty complex so only if you're very determined can you get through. Makes one go hum....

I do have one question - did you approach your congressional representatives and if so how did they respond? I'm wondering if our elected officials are willing to go against the FTC or if these are losing battles too.

peace,
--Jack

[George Wright]

Hi,

This has been a frightening yet enlightening account. Thanks so much for your firsthand insights.

One question, you touch on the P.O. The FTC and BBB, etc. Any experiences with the Chamber of Commerce (anyone) to me they seem "friendly" enough, but,???

George Wright

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by jacktackett

Thanks Bob - very informative and helpful. I can imagine this was painful to dredge up again - but hopefully somewhat therapeutic.

I've often wondered about the BBC here. I've tried several times to lodge complaints - and against some high profile developers etc who I now know paid large membership fees. I don't have any proof except my own experiences - but what you've said here adds another data point to the mix. Our BBC makes lodging complaints pretty complex so only if you're very determined can you get through. Makes one go hum....

I do have one question - did you approach your congressional representatives and if so how did they respond? I'm wondering if our elected officials are willing to go against the FTC or if these are losing battles too.

peace,
--Jack

Jack,

I didn't approach any government representatives because frankly, the FTC is a product of them.

Anyway, they hit you with so much crap that you are buried in details. Imagine, one day someone dropping ten boxes of legal lies on you. I was basically in shock and everything happened really fast after that.

[sashas]

What the FTC is calling "pro consumer", I call "pro stupidity".

a) If you can't gauge that a guy selling his "$80 million secret" in a $17 ebook is just BSing, you, sir, are an idiot, and I daresay that you deserve to be robbed off your $17.

b) If you can't take action on solid, proven money making solutions and cry out "scam!", then you too, sir, are an idiot.

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by George Wright

Hi,

This has been a frightening yet enlightening account. Thanks so much for your firsthand insights.

One question, you touch on the P.O. The FTC and BBB, etc. Any experiences with the Chamber of Commerce (anyone) to me they seem "friendly" enough, but,???

George Wright

George,

As far as I know the Chamber is a benign membership organization. They are not in the same category as the others.

In some areas of the country Consumer Affairs basically has the same role as the BBB and they will help the AG.

[Richard Odell]

Originally Posted by bobsedge

2. Stay away from targeted products. If I were you, I would stay away from selling Acai Berry for one. There already has been some rumblings there and the FTC loves to go after health related products. You can easily be caught up in the wrath if you are not careful. Before you start pitching a product Google the category to see if there are any waves of discontent.

You can now see why Squidoo dropped a lot of these categories?

Interesting?

-Rich

[Anonymous Affiliate]

Scary stuff... very scary... thanks for posting your story man. Sometimes life hits us hard and the recovery path becomes a truly painful crawl.

[Anonymous Affiliate]

Originally Posted by sashas

What the FTC is calling "pro consumer", I call "pro stupidity".

a) If you can't gauge that a guy selling his "$80 million secret" in a $17 ebook is just BSing, you, sir, are an idiot, and I daresay that you deserve to be robbed off your $17.

b) If you can't take action on solid, proven money making solutions and cry out "scam!", then you too, sir, are an idiot.

I SO agree with this. This damn "modern" society, educational system, Big Brother-like bureaucracy and all around overzealous welfare system is turning people into mindless, naive and stupid Lemmings.

Just like the credit crunch: so many people were mortgaging and remortgaging their homes to oblivion just to buy themselves a cliche beach hut and a new SUV. And then, when they're swimming in credit debts, they cry out for mercy even though it's been nothing but their own stupidity what's ultimately taken them down.

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by NathanFalkner

In retrospect, do you think your outcome would
have been different had you followed similar basic
guidelines to the ones you suggest while running
your business? I ask since the picture that seems
to be presented is one where the FTC throws a dart
and selects a company to go after and then works
to find technical errors and/or omissions as a legal
pretext to file suit and freeze bank accounts.

(Under that scenario, if generally accurate, how
can any IMer really be "fine" even if they follow the
excellent and thought provoking advice provided?)

Nathan,

Excellent question. I have asked this of myself a million times.

I don't think my company was perfect. We definitely made some mistakes. When we started in the industry there was no template. We had to invent everything we did. And there was a time that our growth was unhealthy and we were probably in over our heads.

But in the end I can honestly say that we were one of the good guys.

My outcome would have been different if we didn't take on the BBB. That made us stand out.

Remember, they don't look for a company, they look for an industry. Then they find someone within the industry.

The BBB put us on their radar. At that moment, we were history. Our business practices and the facts did not matter.

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

I SO agree with this. This damn "modern" society, educational system, Big Brother-like bureaucracy and all around overzealous welfare system is turning people into mindless, naive and stupid Lemmings.

Just like the credit crunch: so many people were mortgaging and remortgaging their homes to oblivion just to buy themselves a cliche beach hut and a new SUV. And then, when they're swimming in credit debts, they cry out for mercy even though it's been nothing but their own stupidity what's ultimately taken them down.

AA and sasha,

What you say is true but that doesn't take away our responsibility of painting a truthful picture.

People want things to be easy. They want a formula. That is human nature.

Perhaps we have a professional responsibility to tell them it's not true.

Madoff was allowed to happen because he was part of a food chain. It was greed and gullibility because those that could have stopped the chain turned the other way.

[Daniel Brock]

Originally Posted by bobsedge

Nathan,

Excellent question. I have asked this of myself a million times.

I don't think my company was perfect. We definitely made some mistakes. When we started in the industry there was no template. We had to invent everything we did. And there was a time that our growth was unhealthy and we were probably in over our heads.

But in the end I can honestly say that we were one of the good guys.

My outcome would have been different if we didn't take on the BBB. That made us stand out.

Remember, they don't look for a company, they look for an industry. Then they find someone within the industry.

The BBB put us on their radar. At that moment, we were history. Our business practices and the facts did not matter.

Isn't the BBB a private organization? It's really messed up that a private company can pretty much put you out of business at will.

Your whole story is pretty Effed up. It makes me sick, it really does.

What is the point of even complying to their so called rules if they are just going to find something to take you down anyway?

Even if you did everything 100% by the book, I'm sure there is always something they can find to put you out of business...

United States is done.

[yourreviewer]

I am just curious. Is this the case for other countries as well? Just reading this story gives the creeps and makes me scared. Reminds me of De Niro's lines in Casino,

Nicky's methods of betting weren't scientific, but they worked. When he won, he collected. When he lost, he told the bookies to go f*** themselves. I mean, what were they going to do, muscle Nicky? Nicky was the muscle.

YouTube - How not to lose

YouTube - Casino - Is this your pen?

[garyv]

Hey Bob, I've been doing business online for over a decade. And like most businesses that handle a lot of transactions, I've had a few bbb reports over the years. My method for handling them is to simply ignore them. Would you suggest a different method?

Like others I think the bbb is just a large bully organization. And from what I've read and experienced, they can only wield their power, if you allow them to by feeding their credibility. Is this true in your experience?

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by garyv

Hey Bob, I've been doing business online for over a decade. And like most businesses that handle a lot of transactions, I've had a few bbb reports over the years. My method for handling them is to simply ignore them. Would you suggest a different method?

Like others I think the bbb is just a large bully organization. And from what I've read and experienced, they can only wield their power, if you allow them to by feeding their credibility. Is this true in your experience?

Gary,

From a consumer standpoint, I think the BBB has less of an impact today than they did years ago, particularly for internet businesses. They have more of an impact on brick and mortar businesses. Ripoff Report (an even bigger bs entity, if you can believe that) wields more power online because it reaches Google.

That being said, I one hand I would say ignoring them makes sense because you don't want to fill them in that a real business exists behind the website. On the other hand, you don't want complaints to mount because that could trigger something else.

My recommendation is to keep consumer complaints to a minimum and appease them whenever possible.

[Kay King]

I think you are correct that the BBB is not the force it was - but it may take years for the FTC to catch on to that, mightn't it?

Thanks for sharing this. I can only imagine what a painful time it's been. It's a realistic scenario that many people simply don't want to accept. It may sound good to threaten to fight back or to claim "they can't do that" - but truth is, few can afford to fight them...and yes, they can.

Keep your head down.

kay

[lakshaybehl]

FTC really could be coming down hard on you US guys.

Guess I'm going to have change of plans (see my sig).

@OP
Also, am I right in assuming that they basically took everything you had? Home, Cars and assets?

[bobsedge]

Originally Posted by lakshaybehl

FTC really could be coming down hard on you US guys.

Guess I'm going to have change of plans (see my sig).

@OP
Also, am I right in assuming that they basically took everything you had? Home, Cars and assets?

It's really a misconception that the FTC is hitting any harder now than before. They've been at it for many years, now it's just hitting our industry so we are aware.

I lost some assets but I didn't lose my home. I really believe that they understood from early on that they barked up the wrong tree so I came away better than most people in the same circumstance.

[lakshaybehl]

Originally Posted by bobsedge

It's really a misconception that the FTC is hitting any harder now than before. They've been at it for many years, now it's just hitting our industry so we are aware.

I lost some assets but I didn't lose my home. I really believe that they understood from early on that they barked up the wrong tree so I came away better than most people in the same circumstance.

Bob,

Yes, I kinda realize this world ain't a free world like the 'fourth age' of this world under the leadership of Lord Aragorn, lol.

It's never been this way.

However, just curious- can you do nothing at all if FTC decides they're after you? I mean sue them... without a million dollar retainer or something? Or maybe use press and media to present your case to the world?

Also, lets say you have 5 cos. and they go after one of them... then what happens to the other 4? Are they officially under the radar too?

You see. I have been thinking about moving to US for a long time, but recently I have developed a nomadic taste, so I am having second thoughts about that. Some of these things will help influence my decision. Rio is great in Feb., and Sydney in December. There isn't an Indian authority that can not be challenged (and defeated) in a court, and they don't generally go after companies that easily too. That's one thing I love aboout this place.

-Lakshay

[TelegramSam]

They tend to go for businesses that make it worth their while.

So don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Keep as low a profile as possible (which is hard for us marketeers).

At least don't go bragging off in your ferrari or lambo.

If a bureaucrat calls, just say "yes sir, how quickly do you want me to bend over".

Take it on the chin.

Then one day in the future if society does break down, you can get intense pleasure from watching these leeches squirm in the mud where they belong.

The sad thing is we can't hitch up the wagons and head west anymore.

If anyone watches Deadwood, you can see the horror they face as the bureacrats start to follow the pioneers out west.

Sam

[spartanic]

From reading Frank Kern's own experience with the FTC they usually get leads from complaints. I'm not suprised Amway sued the FTC and won. They sure do make buckets of cash with their training tapes, lol.

[garwil200]

Thanks to all for your posts on this subject. Allow me to put in my 2 cents worth. I am an affiliate marketer, and just beginning my online business. I have been in traditional business for over 44 years, and have extensive experience in offline marketing. I have never joined the BBB, because they only favor their larger contributers. I have also avoided a high public profile, and the 3 complaints I received, I promptly handled directly with my clients.

As for the FTC, they are a corrupt organization, just like all the other Alphabet Soup of Government agencies. I was one of the marketing leaders in Ben Suarez premature online marketing company called "International Home Shopping" I know Ben personally, and what he went through with the AG of Ohio, as well as the FTC. before he established IHS. Ben also wrote a treatise on the World Wide Elite Socialist movement. That was 20 years ago, and today unfortunetly we find ourselves here in the US living under a facist, anti Capitalist goverment. All of the abuses seem to be increasing with all of our Goverment agencies. Enough of all the negative crap, I am an optimist by nature. So where do I go from here?

Here is what I plan to do about my online affiliate marketing business. The 2 main guidlines the FTC has added has to do with income claims, and endorsements. As far as income claims are concerned, I already have tired of reading long sales letters with screen shots of all the money Guru's have made. I am only interested in a realistic look at what I can make. I know these guys have made what they said, but spare me all the details. WIIFM.

Along the same lines, I am tired of all the endorsements in sales letters. They all sound the same. I am already in information overload. I have dozens of videos I have downloaded that I haven't watched yet. So when I look at my Email Inbox, I only open those from some of the well known marketers I recognize. I don't even open all of theirs. It depends on the Subject. When I open an email, I usually just read the first page, scroll down and read some bullets, sroll past all of the bragging screenshots of their income. Scroll past all of the endorsements. Scroll down to the PS, and then scroll down to the price. I make my decision, one way or the other, and then move on to the next email.

The political environment, is what it is, at least until the next election, so I will just adjust, follow the rules, keep a low profile, and find better ways to sell online. Marketing rules are still the same online, just like offline. When writing an email or salesletter, I will follow the AIDA guidelines. Get their Attention with a headline, build up their Interest with a subheadline and opening paragraphs, built the Desire in the body of the letter, using short paragraphs and lots of bullets, and then give them the Action to take. It doesn't take a long sales letter to do that, when you eliminate the endorsements, and pages of income screen shots. I already believe they made the money, or I wouldn't be reading their sales letter.

Finally, I will be making liberal use of short videos to explain the sales message, and to build trust in me and my message. Those of us, who can adjust to the new regulations faster and better, will have a competitive advantage.

Well that was more than 2 cents worth. What do you plan to do about the new regulations?
Jerry Garner