What makes them tick?

[dmh_warrior]

Hey all!

This question is going out to all Marketers... amateur
psychologists, friends and PUAs...

Now, as some of you know, one of the areas that I've
had a lot of success in, is the seduction/dating
niche.

And you know what?

After some of the stuff that we've worked on, I
was sure that I had them 'tagged', 'bagged'
and 'sorted' and the proof was in the digits.

I thought that I had this market all figured out

But now I'm starting to think that somewhere
between 'The Game', 'Annihilation
Method', Mystery getting his own TV show etc.
that there has been a shift in the market.

A shift in their makeup, mood, wants... and basically
their profile as a consumer.

They used to be very close-knit and predictable,
but since all of this has happened, the market has
boomed and grown substantially.

Or maybe I've just been too close to it... I
don't know.

So I'd love to hear your thoughts on this niche/market,
in other words:

"What is the seduction market's biggest desire?"

What is it that these guys truly want?

And I'm not talking about the obvious
'surface' reasons... i.e. get laid, get women
etc.

Is it about:
- respect
- sex
- status
- relationships,
- pleasure
- becoming popular
- proving people wrong
- wanting to have a celebrity inspired lifestyle
- or what else do you think?

AND...

before you PM me or bitch me out, I confess... you got
me Sherlock, I did it in the conservatory with the candlestick
and a database!

Yes, I am doing this for a reason other than general interest.

So... before you pull me up on that and waste
everyone's time... pat yourself on the back, finish polishing
your Nobel Prize and then go back to ripping on other people and
Tweeting about it or whatever floats your internet-boat

So now that you've busted my scheme wide-open,
I've gotta tell you that I am sitting here (and as I type)
considering a venture with some seduction stuff in the dating niche
and that I'm basically trying to wrap my head back around this market.

and I would love some help! :P

What do you think WARRIORS?

Thanks :P

[Traffic-Bug]

Dating/seduction niche is very competitive niche these days. Almost everyday is trying to promote or push or pose or function as affiliates of popular dating networks. As such it is difficult to pinpoint on something new that has been so far left unexplored to make a killing in this niche, because pretty much everything that can be done, has already been done.

[dmh_warrior]

Thanks Traffic-Bug, I guess I'm not looking so much for advice on types of products as to what the psychological-levers are on these guys.

As in, what motivates them at a core level?

Eg There's the old example of a guy that buys a ferrari and obviously he is not after a hunk of metal, some red paint and wheels. But more likely he is after an experience, and things like status and respect.

So I'm wondering what the desires of this market are? Do they want to attract women to feel popular, or is it about respect etc?

Thanks for the input though, you're right that it's a slammed market

[dmh_warrior]

Anyone else?

[bgmacaw]

Originally Posted by dmh_warrior

As in, what motivates them at a core level?

Let's ask The King what they're looking for...

YouTube - elvis presley vs jxl - a little less...

[dmh_warrior]

ah snap, but then again... I don't think that the King had problems picking up women like these guys do!

YouTube - Elvis - Surrender

[Richard Odell]

What can I say?

Pussy Stampede!

YouTube - Pussy Stampede!

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by dmh_warrior

you got me Sherlock, I did it in the conservatory with the candlestick and a database!

This is certainly a very obscure, little-known and specialist seduction-technique. I don't remember a guy ever trying this one, to be honest. Makes a great change from in the study with the rope ...

[Richard Odell]

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Makes a great change from in the study with the rope ...

So you too have encountered Colonel Mustard?

[Richard Odell]

Originally Posted by dmh_warrior

What is it that these guys truly want?

OK - before this thread falls into just jokes (my bad I know ).

Its not at all about what the man wants..

...its all about how the women feels "safe" around them....

... thats what it is all about - a simple earnest approach, no hidden agenda.

The rest is up to what the chemistry allows.

-Rich

[dmh_warrior]

Originally Posted by Richard Odell

What can I say?

Pussy Stampede!

YouTube - Pussy Stampede!

ah ha ha ha ha

Thanks man... had not seen that - BUT it really cracked me up! Love 'the soup', really funny sh*t.

[Richard Odell]

Watta Im gonna leave you with is this a quote fro the transcript of an interview between the late great Gary Halbert and Michel Fortin.

Halbert quotes...

Well, the thing is… what I am try*ing to point out to you is these things are facts and I have twisted them into bul*lets and these are called blind bul*lets because I do not give away the secret. The No. 1 rule which absolutely must be observed for a woman to have a truly spec*tac*u*lar orgasm and we are going to stop talk*ing about sex here folks because I know some of you are shriv*el*ing but do you know what that No. 1 rule is? The woman has to feel absolutely safe… um… and the… um…

Full transcript

http://www.michelfortin.com/2nd-gary...l-part-2-of-4/

-Rich

[dmh_warrior]

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

This is certainly a very obscure, little-known and specialist seduction-technique. I don't remember a guy ever trying this one, to be honest. Makes a great change from in the study with the rope ...

Yeah... what can I say?

I learnt it from an underground seduction master (in a cave behind a waterfall in the Andes)! It requires incredible skill and care and a dash of chivalry... but mostly just a copy of the board game "Cleudo" a computer and a bottle - or two - of wine!

I'll look into your study suggestion, maybe that could be the name for a new product ... "Seduction for Consenting Adults Lvl 2: In the study with the rope"

[dmh_warrior]

Originally Posted by Richard Odell

Watta Im gonna leave you with is this a quote fro the transcript of an interview between the late great Gary Halbert and Michel Fortin.

Halbert quotes...

Full transcript

http://www.michelfortin.com/2nd-gary...l-part-2-of-4/

-Rich

Thanks Rich, I appreciate it. Kind of felt like I was in an echo chamber:
"helloooo...hellooo...helloo...hello"

Halbert was and is a master. I'll read up the report, thanks. I guess the thing I'm angling for though, is not so much the dating side of things, but the psychological side of things on the prospect.

What the prospect's core desires are in this market. Do they want to date successfully just for sex? Or is it for the status and feelings of worthiness - or just to show off to their friends that they are not just a Lvl 5 Mage in World of Warcraft?

[Jason_V]

I think the problem lies in what you're asking. You could ask 100 men and you could get up to 100 different answers about what they're trying to get out of dating/women. If you went to college and you had a lot of friends this couldn't be any more clear.

Some of my friends were into seeing how many girls they could bed.

Some of my friends were just looking to hang out and have fun, if they happened to find a girl they were into and who was into them, great, they would date.

Some of my friends were the kinds of guys that were completely "whipped" by their current girlfriend.

Some of my friends were the kinds of guys who were insecure and if they weren't in a relationship they were a mess and they weren't happy until they got into another one.

Some of my friends were the types of guys who dated several girls at once (the girls knew it and were cool with it because they weren't exclusive with my friends either)

Some of my friends would go after certain girls because as you said, it was more of a status thing for them.

Some of my friends were terrible with women (as most guys are) and they would basically act like morons, drool, and fall all over themselves if any girl gave them attention (if any women would actually give them attention because they NEVER or RARELY made any moves.)

Some of my friends had been so screwed over by women previously that they honestly could care less about them. They were bitter and only cared about hanging out with guy friends, drinking beer, going to class, playing video games, etc...

Edit:

I should also stress that the types of things men are looking for from women/dating is also probably more likely to change as they grow older and or gain maturity.

Also it depends on their background.

Were they married for 10 years now suddenly divorced?

Were they always single but enjoyed a great dating/social life?

Were they in a long term relationship for 3 years? How did it end? Is he bitter over it? Is he sad? Does he want her back? These questions also apply to the marriage example above.

Have they been alone and miserable since their first gf cheated on them and broke up with them when they were 19 and now they're 25-30+?

[Richard Odell]

Originally Posted by dmh_warrior

What the prospect's core desires are in this market. Do they want to date successfully just for sex? Or is it for the status and feelings of worthiness - or just to show off to their friends that they are not just a Lvl 5 Mage in World of Warcraft?

Deep stuff?

Horses for courses I suppose?

To be honest, apart from the "feely good, lets get hitched on intellect and interests" (that market is way catered for!) your alternate market will aways be the male ego of conquest.

I would cater for the underpart jockeys and forget the meaningful relationship market.

Let they're hormones rule they're expenditure and sod the reason why they are that way.

Hungry crowd all and that!

[dmh_warrior]

Originally Posted by Jason_V

I think the problem lies in what you're asking. You could ask 100 men and you could get up to 100 different answers about what they're trying to get out of dating/women. If you went to college and you had a lot of friends this couldn't be any more clear.

Thanks Jason, I see what you're saying and I agree with you. I guess I didn't ask my question that clearly, it's been rolling around in my head, and it made sense to me - but I probably wasn't that clear.

There is definitely a huge mixture of desires and aims in men when they try to attract, date and seduce women.

However, there is a specific market in the seduction community. These are the guys that follow Pick Up Artists such as Mystery, Neil Strauss, Savoy and so on. They regularly attend seminars, workshops and bootcamps on how to improve their "game".

So these aren't your average guys, they are very niche and whilst almost all guys wish they could improve their game, probably only 1 in every 100 are serious enough about it to go and receive 'training' from other men and buy their products.

It is this slice of the market that I'm referring to. It's not about men in general, but about pre-approved seduction community members.

Obviously again within this market there will be different motivations, but there are less variations. They are often very successful in other areas of their life, but feel disappointed with their ability to interact with women.

So whilst on the face of it, it seems that they want to attract women for sex, or relationships... the fact that they pay up to $3,000 per seminar to be trained in this indicates that they have a very deep driving and motivating force other than, I want a girlfriend, someone who loves me, someone to watch dvds with, or someone to have sex with.

Often they are driven by feelings of failure, insecurity etc. that underlie their desire to attract women.

Do you know what I'm driving at?

For example, in the B2B market, often guys say they want to make money, and be rich... and it's true, but underlying that is what this gives them... it gives them freedom, feelings of accomplishment, it means they can work from home and they don't have to wear a suit...

it also means that they can by a flashy car and drive it past their jerk ex-boss who wanted them to work 40 hours a week for a big-fat piss sandwhich.

And when im's mass-market to this community they make assumptions about the core desires of the market and what it is that they 'really' want at a deeper level.

Savvy?

Appreciate your feedback and thoughts, it's definitely all relevant and it helps to remember just what a variety of consumers there are for this sort of thing.

Thanks man.

[Jericho]

Maybe I can help answer you're question? There was a stage when I wasn't that good with girls and I really got into reading David De'Angelo's Double Your Dating etc.

At the time I really just thought it was about sex etc. but looking back I really think it was about being respected, liked and getting attention. I used to feel like a loser getting shut down by women that didn't even know me - it affected my self-confidence and a day came where I just said, this is never going to happen again.

I'm a decent guy, and they don't even know me. Since learning the basics I haven't had any problems at all... I just had the wrong approach.

Anyways, if I was going to distill to one factor (for me personally) I would say that it was about increasing my feel of self-worth.

Hope this helps.

[Tsnyder]

I think they want what we all want at our very core... to be loved and appreciated.

Tsnyder

[Daniel E Taylor]

We are gearing up for this market right now in fact. Just putting a few
finishing touches here and there.

I think the shift in the market HAS happened and we are going to
probably be one of the first to capitalize on it.

I've digested pretty much all the popular material in this market
place and though alot of it is good, there is still one big part missing.

Most of this stuff teaches how to use subconscious triggers to
trigger attraction in women.

The problem is that the men who buy this stuff have to CONSCIOUSLY,
walk, talk, and act a certain way to trigger attraction.

But their is a deeper level to the game. Which is they are ready to
BECOME the type of men who trigger attraction.

The type of men who don't even have to say a word to get a womens
number and can kiss a women before he gets her name.

At this level all the PUA rules like "Don't give compliments" get thrown
out the window.

That is a deeper level to the game that the pick up artist stuff hasn't
really touched on because most of the guys teaching it don't know
themselves.

Daniel

[dmh_warrior]

Yeah, thanks guys. True on all accounts...

I think they want what we all want at our very core... to be loved and appreciated.

Tsnyder

- That probably is a motive that can be extrapolated to cover a lot of other desires in various ways.

Originally Posted by lumbardi

dating site marketing is like adult niche, it is highly competetive, you need lot's of strategy enable to succeed,

I think the shift in the market HAS happened and we are going to
probably be one of the first to capitalize on it.

It definitely is a very saturated market and I guess Daniel is right in the fact that ONE main aspect has been saturated, where once scarce, there is now an abundance of material on approaching, attracting and seducing all kinds of women.

... HECK even Pepsi is in on it now!!

"Amp up has created the before you score iphone app - it features "feeds, lines and more to help you talk to to 24 different kinds of ladies." You even get help scoring that mess of a girl with her mascara running carrying a tub of ice-cream, yes it's rebound girl."



Amp up - Before you score iPhone app - (2009) :30 (USA) | Adland

And as for new material, I guess you're talking about "Inner Game", which would be a great success. Good luck with that!

And so whilst a saturated market, as long as every year new men turn 18 years old and want help with women... there'll always be new customers!