Why Do People In The IM/Make Money Niche Still Use PDF For Ebooks?

[Lance K]

I would assume that prospects know about the ability to use .exe files to publish ebooks. If not, it wouldn't be hard to make them aware of it and lead them to expect it.

With all the threads that pop up here from time to time about "theft" and "serial refunders", you would think that .exe would be a logical alternative. Has anyone tested .exe files lately? Or has everyone simply written them off as outdated and/or taboo?

[Ryan700]

Originally Posted by Lance K

I would assume that prospects know about the ability to use .exe files to publish ebooks.

Not on a Mac they don't.

[George Wright]

EXE was once the ebook creation of choice as you know. The fact that you can easily get a virus (or the perceived fact) stops their use.

Also, you can't email an exe ebook via gmail. I don't know about other email services.

And the Mac reason.

Plus with PDF creation being free and wide spread that helps too.

George Wright

[Clint]

I have simply written them off as outdated and/or taboo.

Clint S.

[Lance K]

So I guess "theft" and "serial refunders" are just an accepted cost of doing business then? Because even when factoring them in, the extra sales you make with a PDF version still nets more profits.

Why expend the energy worrying about theft and refunds then?

[RebeccaL]

PDF is definitely more "current" than an exe file for an ebook. Most people are wary of .exe ebook files, I've had many picked up as viruses. PDF is much more convenient too.

[FaJeeb]

One of my "work in progress" eBooks I would like to sell as an .exe instead of an eBook, does anyone here have any advice or tips on doing this? For my target marker, which are gamers, I feel that it wouldn't be long before my eBook would show up as free on gaming forums which are aplenty.

[Jeff Henshaw]

So I guess "theft" and "serial refunders" are just an accepted cost of doing business then? Because even when factoring them in, the extra sales you make with a PDF version still nets more profits.

Why expend the energy worrying about theft and refunds then?

I'm not sure that I fully understand the part of your post quoted above.

The bottom line (for me anyway) is that IMers don't like to download .exe files - it's a shame because the 'creator' has more control over them to defeat the bad guys. That lack of control however, is the cost of doing business on line IMHO.

I always use .pdf.

If one is in the non IM niche, then one could probably use just about any download format that one wants, as many people outside of the IM niche usually are less aware of the potential dangers of downloading files, whatever their format - in most (but not all) cases.

Just my opinion,

Jeff.

[Martin Luxton]

I did a clean out of my hard disc recently. Almost all the .exe files I checked had malware inside them.

Hackers occasionally find exploits in pdf so they are not perfect, but if people keep up to date with Adobe they're a lot safer than downloading .exe files.

Martin

[Richard Odell]

Never seen why a .exe ebook is such a problem?

If you set it up right you can update the content remotely (most are based on internal HTML pages - iframes work a treat), this means new pages, new products with a book that is already on the customers hard drive. Pop it into an installer and you don't just have an ebook, you are now selling software.

Get the customer on your mailing list prior to download and he has instant notification when the book is updated.

As for Mac's - the percentage of PC's are way higher - I'm happy taking the loss!

Folks around here wouldn't think twice about installing a keyword tool? Why not an ebook (there's a .exe an the heart of most PC software).

-Rich

[Rob Whisonant]

If you are wanting to use an .exe so it calls home to see if a paid customer is reading it. Truthfully forget it. An exe can be nulled in minutes using any hex editor and then put out on all the pirate sites and torrent sites.

So using an exe may cause you more theft because you would attract the hackers that want to null it for fun.

Stick with pdf and everyone can read them including Mac and Linux users.

Actually plan on all your ebooks being stolen and have things in all your ebooks that can make you money. Links to recommended products, links to join your mailing list. etc...

Re's
Rob Whisonant

[George Wright]

Hi,

What am I missing? As I recall people stole exe ebooks and serial refunders got refunds on them too.

I thought it was pretty much accepted here that the hoops that you make serial refunders jump through and the safe guards against thieves also discouraged legit buyers.

Many have stated in the past that they won't put up with the "safety" features.

I don't know. Is there more out on this?

George Wright

Originally Posted by Lance K

So I guess "theft" and "serial refunders" are just an accepted cost of doing business then? Because even when factoring them in, the extra sales you make with a PDF version still nets more profits.

Why expend the energy worrying about theft and refunds then?

[BIG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jeff Henshaw

I'm not sure that I fully understand the part of your post quoted above.

The bottom line (for me anyway) is that IMers don't like to download .exe files - it's a shame because the 'creator' has more control over them to defeat the bad guys. That lack of control however, is the cost of doing business on line IMHO.

I always use .pdf.

If one is in the non IM niche, then one could probably use just about any download format that one wants, as many people outside of the IM niche usually are less aware of the potential dangers of downloading files, whatever their format - in most (but not all) cases.

Just my opinion,

Jeff.

Hi Jeff,

I disagree with that particular statement because IM'ers will readily download an exe file when it's software and even more readily when it's freeware (which is the major cause of most of their spyware/adware/trojan and virus problems).

We often don't think of it like this this, but PDF is the "Data" file - you still need an executable file (Adobe Reader for example) to read them. Granted, Adobe is a well known and respect software company, but nonetheless, it does require an exe to view them or the equivalent on other operating systems.

The core benefit to PDF is that it's cross-platform so you are able to extend your reach by another 8 to 10 percent or so of potential users.

@Lance - nice timing of your post...we've got a program in development called EZ Rights Management for PDF, which requires the free "Incansoft Reader" program by the customer to unlock and read/print PDF's. It includes an online Rights Management system to keep the owner in control of their PDF's.

Our initial release will be for Windows, which we'll follow up on with a version for MAC's. Since the typical MAC user can and does run Windows applications, our research and experience shows this not to be a major issue. In fact, we're taking an approach somewhat akin to Kindle's model for rights management.

Like you, I don't understand the complaints of serial refunding/piracy, coupled with the reluctance to simply use a simple and straightforward control mechanism.

Personally, I don't think anyone has done any significant research on this to begin with. We have done some very targeted research into it and are betting it will fly

Incidentally, Adobe does offer a sophisticated rights management system for PDF, but last time I checked it was something like $50K per year. I'm not even sure that individuals or small businesses can buy it directly.

Anyways, I'm with you on this

[George Wright]

Hi,

I bet if some major names started selling eBooks in EXE file format us little guys would follow.

I still enjoy, Allen Says exe eBooks and of course Michael Tracy's Cook Book.

George Wright

[Gary Smith]

Originally Posted by George Wright

Hi,

I bet if some major names started selling eBooks in EXE file format us little guys would follow.

On that very subject....

Over-the-counter ebooks

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

@Lance - nice timing of your post...we've got a program in development called EZ Rights Management for PDF, which requires the free "Incansoft Reader" program by the customer to unlock and read/print PDF's. It includes an online Rights Management system to keep the owner in control of their PDF's.

Our initial release will be for Windows, which we'll follow up on with a version for MAC's. Since the typical MAC user can and does run Windows applications, our research and experience shows this not to be a major issue. In fact, we're taking an approach somewhat akin to Kindle's model for rights management.

Like you, I don't understand the complaints of serial refunding/piracy, coupled with the reluctance to simply use a simple and straightforward control mechanism.

Personally, I don't think anyone has done any significant research on this to begin with. We have done some very targeted research into it and are betting it will fly

Incidentally, Adobe does offer a sophisticated rights management system for PDF, but last time I checked it was something like $50K per year. I'm not even sure that individuals or small businesses can buy it directly.

Anyways, I'm with you on this

BIG Mike, very cool. That was another thing I was wondering about but didn't post. Why doesn't someone attempt to come up with a better way for publishers who use PDF to protect their content? If it works as planned, that one could be HUGE. GOOD LUCK!

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Lance K

I would assume that prospects know about the ability to use .exe files to publish ebooks.

And the inability to convert them for a Kindle, read them on a Mac, or put them on your smartphone, too.

I'm not going to take all that away from my honest customers to stop pirates.

Antipiracy is a tradeoff. It makes life difficult for everyone, not just the pirates. I prefer happy customers to frustrated pirates.

[TheGodfather]

Originally Posted by Lance K

I would assume that prospects know about the ability to use .exe files to publish ebooks. If not, it wouldn't be hard to make them aware of it and lead them to expect it.

With all the threads that pop up here from time to time about "theft" and "serial refunders", you would think that .exe would be a logical alternative. Has anyone tested .exe files lately? Or has everyone simply written them off as outdated and/or taboo?

Here is my answer, as a IT expert, to your question.

PDF has become the industry standard for sending electronic documents. It is highly portable supported on Linux, Windows, Mac's etc.

The reader is freeware and thus many people can use it to read documents.

The reason why many people use PDF is also this: why reinvent the wheel when you got one that works superb.

Sure, the EXE format has it's advantages but it is limited so that Linux and Mac users just can't run the book. Plus the virus issue that was also mentioned in an above post.

Hoped this helped. When doing stuff like these it helps to know what are the industry standards.

But a great alternative would also be the DJVU extension. The only difference between PDF and DJVU is that DJVU isn't that popular as PDF but basically gives you the same portability option.

Hoped this helped to clarify the issue.

TheGodfather

[Lance K]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Antipiracy is a tradeoff. It makes life difficult for everyone, not just the pirates. I prefer happy customers to frustrated pirates.

It IS a trade off. And one that makes good business sense. That's my point. I don't understand why people worry/complain about it. Especially when the ones that are bothered so much by it don't seem to be exploring any alternatives.

But it sounds like BIG Mike & Co. may be on to something that might allow those folks to have their cake and eat it too.

[Ryan700]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Since the typical MAC user can and does run Windows applications, our research and experience shows this not to be a major issue.

I don't know if I could be called a "typical Mac user" but here's my take. The first crash that I had on my Imac was from Microsoft's Office for Home and Student and I swore that I would not put a MS product on my Mac again. After buying my Macbook I found OpenOffice which is just as good if not better. I'm not saying that I don't have the occasional problem with my Macs - Firefox and it's plugins come to mind - but MS Windows will not be going on my Macs until there is some software that I really need to have that the developer is not willing to make a Mac version.

[John Cabral]

Hi,

When I first started programing and came out with my list managing software I added a feature that required user to get a license code from me which was based on their hard drives serial number which is different for everyone so they could not pass it around etc as it would only work on the installed computer. Later I decided to use a floppy for a license so that way they could install on more than one computer but could only use it on one computer at a time :-)

Personally I won't use a protect, I don't care what form it is that requires it to check your license on a server to use which means having to be online which means if I am not online or my internet service is down I can't use it.

Plus trust me if you stuff is good it can and will be hacked so there is no 100% foolproof system.

John

[Dan C. Rinnert]

From the customer's perspective, the question would be: what's in it for me?

I've purchased .EXE eBooks in the past, and never liked them. As a buyer, they don't provide a benefit to me. Onscreen viewing was cumbersome and many had printing disabled. So, that limited my options.

A PDF is a much better experience. Most aren't set with disabled printing, so I can print them out and read them offline if I want. Or, I can read them right on my computer. My option.

Maybe .EXE eBooks have improved and can provide an experience comparable to a PDF, but what's in it for me? I already have a great feature set when I read a PDF, so why should I be limited by an .EXE?

Perhaps an .EXE gives more options to the seller but, as the buyer, if I've shelled out $xx for an eBook, I want to be able to read and use it in a manner I prefer. I don't see where an .EXE gives me as many options as a PDF. Plus, if I'm a Mac or Linux user, I can't use your .EXE at all, unless I boot into Windows, which I would be loathe to do just to read an eBook.

And, for those willing to write off Mac and Linux users because the Windows market is so much larger, are you also willing to lose a portion of that market, simply because some people will be unwilling to purchase an .EXE eBook?

With a PDF, you can sell your product to Windows users, Mac users and Linux users. With an .EXE, you lose the Mac and Linux users plus a portion of Windows users.

An .EXE may be good for the seller in helping to stave off piracy (maybe) but, as the buyer, any added inconveniences that protect the seller do not do me any good if they limit my options in using the product I PAID FOR!

Imagine if printed media publishers included GPS devices and locks on their books that would clamp them closed if you tried to read the book outside your home? If you wanted to read the book at the office or on the road, you'd have to purchase an additional copy. I'm sure there are publishers that would jump at the capability of doing that, but do you think buyers would be happy about it?

[Richard Odell]

Originally Posted by Lance K

BIG Mike, very cool. That was another thing I was wondering about but didn't post. Why doesn't someone attempt to come up with a better way for publishers who use PDF to protect their content? If it works as planned, that one could be HUGE. GOOD LUCK!

Its already been around for quite a while now....

Secure -ebook

-Rich

[Rod Cortez]

I've changed all my ebooks to PDF format simply because it's easier for my customers. I have one ebook left that's in .exe format (created by Ebook Generator) and I'm nixing that too. I want the Mac and Linux users to read the ebook too. People that want to steal and/or refund are going to find ways to do it regardless. The vast majority of customers are honest and that's where I focus my energies on.

RoD

[Jesus Perez]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

And the inability to convert them for a Kindle, read them on a Mac, or put them on your smartphone, too.

You nailed it. I rarely read PDFs on my PC, I use my Kindle or iPhone and read them while driving.

[BIG Mike]

Lots of good reasons for both, but our approach still utilizes PDF - the difference is in the reader executable.

Can they be hacked? Probably...eventually, but realistically, aside from the serial refunders, it stops the "Casual" piracy, which is where most info product sellers don't realize they're losing out.

This type of piracy is far more prevalent than even file sharing sites. While it's not done maliciously, you're not only losing sales, but subscribers and any related upsells. By this I mean the John Doe's that buy an ebook and then circulate it to all of his friends.

I've sold software using variuous protection schemas for years and I can tell you emphatically that your customers will NOT have a problem with it.

This is something you cannot look at from a personal viewpoint - it needs careful testing, which is what we've done. I've got 8 years worth of data supporting the fact that customers will not gripe about protection schemas, are in fact accustomed to them and EXPECT them.

For Mac and Linux users...PDF is not technically cross-platform...each platform has a specific reader designed for it, which is what we have planned. Without reader functionality however, a PDF cannot be read on any platform, so the arguement is disingenious to me.

Large companies and governments all use rights management, to secure their documentation. Unfortunately, it just was'nt reasonably priced until now.

[Mr Money Maker]

Send your ebooks out by email......email today can handle the size of most ebooks and you don't have to worry about using other programs.......I was doing this making $350.00 for each ebook a wrote daily....

[DAS_Matt]

The KISS principle applies here. PDF files are easy for the end user to use and people value that quite a bit. It's quite hard to change the expectations for people to what has become an expected delivery method.

[Richard Odell]

Who is sending ebooks by email - am I missing something here?

I thought that what was what a download link was for...

...seeing a lot of herd mentality going on here!

The same sort mentality that will not have anything said against Wordpress (been hacked lately?).

Come on folks, there are still other mediums out there that are still making a pile of cash for marketers that are prepared to go against the norm.

Give these things a chance and test it for yourself - you may just surprised at the results.

Do you really want to leave money on the table. If so I will happily take it from you (and so will a lot others - if you allow them!).

Dare to be different - that's what makes you remarkable and sets you apart from the crowd.....see my above post....

Sheeesh!

-Rich

[Kurt]

Different formats have different advantages...PDF was created by Adobe for the purpose of printing.

It allows us to create documents that will print correctly no matter what OS, printer size, monitor size, screen resolution, documemt margins, colors, fonts installed on the user's PC, etc.

And since PDF is meant to print, I believe it's the best format to use for creating ebooks. Even though the ebook is delivered as an electronic file, many people still prefer to print it out on their own printers. Exe files can't come close to the print quality that PDF offers, because print quality is the reason PDF was created in the first place.

[Code64]

Corey Rudl once developed a solution for this problem. eBook Publishing Software: Make money online with eBook Pro

But the program had many flaws in the earlier versions. Don't know if the latest 6.0 version
works without hussle. You could simply deactivate a user if he asks for a refund, so he is no
longer able to read the ebook or print it out. You could offer a trial version and so on.
Another problem was, that it was only compatible with PC. I think the idea was cool, cause
it included a viral system for mailings, updates etc.

[JonMills]

Originally Posted by Lance K

I would assume that prospects know about the ability to use .exe files to publish ebooks. If not, it wouldn't be hard to make them aware of it and lead them to expect it.

With all the threads that pop up here from time to time about "theft" and "serial refunders", you would think that .exe would be a logical alternative. Has anyone tested .exe files lately? Or has everyone simply written them off as outdated and/or taboo?

PDF works with MAC and on multiple mobile plaforms

[Alexa Smith]

In the 5 or 6 times over the last year that this has been discussed here (including a couple of threads I've started myself), a few things have become very clear:-

1. Warriors have a collective aversion to ".exe"-file e-books, many even going so far as to say that they'd never (or almost never) download one

2. There are (other) Warriors selling ".exe"-file e-books now, a couple of whom report that they've had tens of thousands of sales without ever an objection or refund-request arising over the material being delivered in this format

3. The extent to which supplying e-books in this format creates a "problem" varies enormously from market to market/niche to niche (I imagine that in the "experienced internet marketing advice" niche it might be quite a problem)

4. The overwhelming majority of people selling e-books are using PDF's

5. The delivery format will probably make no difference to a "serial refunder"

6. However you protect your download links, using a PDF it's very difficult indeed reliably to prevent purchasers from subsequently emailing the e-book to other parties

7. The same isn't true at all of ".exe"-files, which can far more easily be protected

Those are my conclusions over the last year's conversations here on this interesting subject, anyway.

[JC-PureProfitsHQ]

The existing stigma is that .exe's come with the potential threat of being a trojan or some form of spyware, even if you know it's an information product and you legitimately paid for it.

I don't have experience publishing using .exe, so how exactly would .exe files stop serial refunders and theft?

[MikeLantz]

Think "mobile" people.

EXEs and other protected formats are simply difficult to deal with in today's mobile world. Again, this is a "cross-platform" issue, and with more and more platforms being added all of the time, there is no reason to limit your business by using cumbersome formats.

Stick with PDF, unless something even more universal comes along.

Mike

PS: Just as a note, WSO Pro has a hidden feature that hasn't been activated yet that helps you see who is sharing your pdfs, if they do get shared. So, if you use WSO Pro and find your PDF online, we may can likely track down the source.

[MisterMunch]

When I download an exe file, my computer goes crazy and ask me several times if I am sure of what I am doing. She also ask me if I trust the company that gave it to me.

I trust Adobe, I do not trust all ebook autors.

[CDarklock]

What bothers me about the antipiracy debate is that the question is fundamentally impossible to answer.

You don't know how many copies of your product will sell until you sell it.

Once you get those results, you can't do an apples-to-apples comparison of a different antipiracy strategy... so you don't know how it would have changed with that strategy.

All we can ever do in this space is say "I sold X copies of this product using this strategy." You can't make any clear determination of whether you would have sold more, or less, with a different approach.

If the product was pirated, you can't tell whether it would have been pirated faster or slower with a different strategy. You can't tell how much of the piracy really represents lost sales. You can't tell how many sales you didn't get because of your antipiracy strategy.

You just plain don't know.

So you can't make a reliable and rational business decision, because you don't know. You can't know. You're shooting in the dark.

And when you don't know, there's no way to make a real decision. It's all arbitrary. And that goes for me every bit as much - when I say "piracy doesn't really hurt sales," It's just as dark for me as it is for everyone else. I can lay out all the philosophy and justification I want, but it's not real.

All I can do is say "hey, this feels right." And that's really all anyone else can say, too. It might feel right to put antipiracy on your ebook. Or to lock up your content in a membership site. Or to print out your book physically, so it can't be "pirated" in any normal sense.

But it's simply not reality to claim that something is clearly true, or clearly false. All the evidence is anecdotal. You can't ignore the evidence... that would be stupid... but you can't give it the same weight as proof, either. And because the market and the product are different for all of us, we can't even use someone else's proof anyway.

[homeworkin]

I rely on Karma copyright protection with something like this:

This book is under copyright. That means it is against the law to sell it, share it, or give it away. Violating copyright is theft and Karma is real. If you received this book from anywhere except 'mysite' this is not a legal copy.

I hate opening .exe files because I am always struck with the fear that my life, as I know it, will end if my laptop fries. I've actually had this laptop longer than I've ever held a "real job."

My customers in most of my niches, by and large, are NOT computer savvy. Many of them are terrified of even ordering online. I still get emails from people asking if they can send me a money order since they are afraid to use a credit card online. These people are gonna freak out if they get a Microsoft warning when they try to open an .exe file.

My thoughts on piracy are thus - some people are gonna lie, cheat and steal through life. Make it as convenient as possible for people to be honest, then let it go. If I have great content and my branding all over the book (use those headers and footers, people!) they may like my stuff enough to buy something from me one day. If not, well, they were probably not going to buy anything anyway. Consider it a free sample.

[Jay Sullivan]

I think the MAIN reasons of why most people prefer PDF over .exe for ebook distribution is because it would be better to sell more PDF ebooks and expect to get the odd pirated copy floating about OR odd serial refunder, than not to sell as many .EXE ebooks and have your product secure?

I think that makes sense...does it?

[danhughes]

Most people get really freaked out when they see an EXE download, especially for something like a book. Not even large-scale electronic publishers use them.

One thing that might me worth trying is a simple Adobe Air App.

It may even increase the perceived value.

For some niches this could cause a support nightmare, but for others it could be seen as a benefit.

[Matt Gannon]

If someone told me to download an e-book and it was an exe I would steer clear. Also there are portable pdf ebook readers now, and I would not want to be left behind on that. Like the portable digital book!

.exe is windows, not mac - Lost sales right there... Also the fact that .exe files are not the safest thing to download there would be many more lost sales from windows users..

James

[Marcel Hartmann]

Only once have I been sold a WSO that was plagued with copy protection. I quickly got around it and was left pretty unhappy (it was a $200 WSO). If I can't read something on the go (iPod Touch at the moment), I'm going to get a refund or hack it myself.

[Chris Morris]

Short of exe files being subject to attaching virus' to them, pdf is a format that is widely acceptable on most computers and devices. You can read a pdf file from a mac or pc and even on devices like a ebook reader or ipod touch.

Executables are only for PC's and unless you are running special software on a mac, you can't even run an executable file. So you really have to look at the amount of people you are cutting out of your marketing when you target only the people who are using a PC to view your books.

Theft is always going to be there. You should take a stance on theft but realize that there is almost nothing you can do to keep your data 100% safe from theft. I just written it off as a cost of doing business.

[richandrich]

I like PDF's because of their ease of use. I am working on my first ebook and I plan to distribute it in a PDF. Any software to protect PDF's would be helpful.

Desiree

[actionplanbiz]

im an apple dude and .exe drives me crazy!!!!!

im all excited about this new product (thank god its free) i download it and its a FRiCKEN EXE!!!!

i hate when that happens