Do we have to tell prospects that we're getting paid if they buy from us?

[Michael Lee]

Hi guys,

Recently, I've read some emails from well-known marketers saying they're getting paid if they buy from the link, that they are affiliates of such product, etc.

This may have something to do with the new FTC rules. So does that mean every time we send an email promoting - or even just pre-selling - something, we need to tell them we're getting paid?

How about those who have many webpages promoting affiliate products? Would they have to put a disclosure in every webpage, saying they're getting paid and stuff like that?

Thanks,
Michael

[madison_avenue]

In the link below which is to Shawn Collins' blog. He now seems to have a disclosure policy about potential recommendations on his blog.

It looks like the FTC has decided that affiliates will have to disclose the fact that they will be getting paid, if they recommend a product and someone buys.

I think this will apply more to review posts, but I am not sure, I could do with some clarification. Below he gives his guidelines.

Disclosure Policy | Affiliate Marketing Blog by Shawn Collins


These were three very good threads about this on the Warrior forum recently:


FTC BACKS DOWN - Just Kidding About the $11,000 Fine!


http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/132203-ftc-thread-you-really-should-read.html

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/132729-warning-ftc-coming-after-affiliates-vendors.html

[St Croix]

A really good technique I've seen to achieve this in-post or within the review is what a lot of the marketers are doing to plug other people's products - along these lines:

I have had so much success with this that I've now signed on as a reseller. To check the product out and pass on the good karma, here is a link to the product site with my affiliate link <link>. I will recieve a small contribution from this to help in maintaining this website

Or here is a direct link to the product where I won't see a cent <link>

Plays on the karma/guilt card

[natedb-WA]

Yeah I believe its used as a guilt card also it reminds people that you are technically doing them out of money.

[Vaan]

This transparancy will affect our business then.., let's see what happen...

Vaan

Originally Posted by natedb-WA

Yeah I believe its used as a guilt card also it reminds people that you are technically doing them out of money.

[St Croix]

Originally Posted by Vaan

This transparancy will affect our business then.., let's see what happen...

Vaan

Yes and this transparency may also save your family home. Thank the US government for this ultra-ambiguous law reform.

Besides, Vaan, this won't affect you mate, you can do what you like!

[Fernando Veloso]

In a couple years this way of "doing things" will be natural and people won't remember "the old days".

Just relax. It's a change in how we do things. As soon as everybody start using these new tricks, they'll become natural.

[rapidscc]

The FTC guide is all about testimonials and endorsements. I guess if you have a site that tells exactly that it is a store then you won't have to..

I'm not sure about this because I don't have a law background but from my interpretations this is how it works..

One question though..Since FTC is for the US does that mean that we marketers from other regions will be spared from those rulings specially since our hosting is local.

All the best

Omar

[Fernando Veloso]

Omar,

I believe i read somewhere the FTC rules applies outside US too. It has to do with "doing business" with us citizens or similar?

[rapidscc]

Yeah Fernando, I get the point, though I think people from other regions could easily take advantage since there'll be no one to prosecute them where they're at..

This ruling could make life hard for US marketers while people from other parts of the globe take advantage..I'm not so sure if the US FTC has enough power to police the globe..

All the best,

Omar

[madison_avenue]

Has anyone got an example of a disclosure policy displaying on an actual affiliate product or page? I have never seen an example of one in use.

[Fernando Veloso]

Maybe the FTC can order a shut down of the (US hosted) sites/affiliates breaking the rules? US Autoresponder companies? etc etc?

Remember, many of us work with US providers

[madison_avenue]

A lot of online gambling companies are based in the UK where online gambling is legal . I think they have US customers. I don't know what the US government is doing about it because online gambling is illegal in the US.

[acedalright]

My question is what exactly can the FTC do to overseas marketers?

Extradite us?

That I'd like to see in one great show of ultimate arrogance

[Imran Naseem]

Can someone please shut up about the FTC? Im sick and tired of these FTC threads.

When the rules come into play in December I do not think you will need to worry.
Just follow their rules and carry on doing what you really love.

Jeez..

[madison_avenue]

see below for post.

[madison_avenue]

Originally Posted by Imran Naseem

Can someone please shut up about the FTC? Im sick and tired of these FTC threads.

When the rules come into play in December I do not think you will need to worry.
Just follow their rules and carry on doing what you really love.

Jeez..

I thought we were allowed to discuss what we wanted on this forum. I have only been reading about this issue in the last couple of days. Don't assume everyone has been following this issue in detail for the last several months or whatever.

And I'm still interested to know if has anyone got an example of a disclosure policy displaying on an actual affiliate product page? I have never seen an example of one in use.

[rapidscc]

Originally Posted by Imran Naseem

Can someone please shut up about the FTC? Im sick and tired of these FTC threads.

When the rules come into play in December I do not think you will need to worry.
Just follow their rules and carry on doing what you really love.

Jeez..

Hi Imran, you're a bit out of line there buddy

Originally Posted by madison_avenue

I thought we were allowed to discuss what we wanted on this forum. I have only been reading about this issue in the last couple of days. Don't assume everyone has been following this issue in detail for the last several months or whatever.

And I'm still interested to know if has anyone got an example of a disclosure policy displaying on an actual affiliate product page? I have never seen an example of one in use.

Hi Madison, here's a review I found, its not a sales page though..look at the bottom of the page..clearly the guy doesn't want to offend the FTC

League of Extraordinary Minds - Business Coaching

It says:

"I will be bringing you more news about the League of Extraordinary Minds when I get it through a series of blogs probably all linking back to this first original blog.

Link to the League of Extraordinary Minds (affiliate link) - officially it starts October 15th but you may get ahead of the crowd.

Disclosure - I am an affiliate for the League of Extraordinary Minds and if you click through from my link and then buy something, I will earn a commission.

All the best!

Omar

[Imran Naseem]

Originally Posted by madison_avenue

I thought we were allowed to discuss what we wanted on this forum. I have only been reading about this issue in the last couple of days. Don't assume everyone has been following this issue in detail for the last several months or whatever.

And I'm still interested to know if has anyone got an example of a disclosure policy displaying on an actual affiliate product page? I have never seen an example of one in use.

True but there are 100s of FTC threads on this forum.

Give it another 3 months and the main discussion board will be full of them.

But point taken

[Imran Naseem]

Originally Posted by rapidscc

Hi Imran, you're a bit out of line there buddy



Hi Madison, here's a review I found, its not a sales page though..look at the bottom of the page..clearly the guy doesn't want to offend the FTC

League of Extraordinary Minds - Business Coaching

It says:

"I will be bringing you more news about the League of Extraordinary Minds when I get it through a series of blogs probably all linking back to this first original blog.

Link to the League of Extraordinary Minds (affiliate link) - officially it starts October 15th but you may get ahead of the crowd.

Disclosure - I am an affiliate for the League of Extraordinary Minds and if you click through from my link and then buy something, I will earn a commission.

All the best!

Omar

Omar I don't think I was out of line.

Point is there are lots of FTC threads.


But I guess you guys are right. Most people still need to be fully aware of these changes.

[St Croix]

Originally Posted by acedalright

My question is what exactly can the FTC do to overseas marketers?

Extradite us?

That I'd like to see in one great show of ultimate arrogance

Agreed.

Alright alright - Let's look at this logically fella's,

What the HELL can the FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION of USA do to us outside the US. People saying, "yes, they will be after us too!" just makes me laugh. Have any foreign trade agreements been signed as a result of this reform? NO. Will the US bother taking on an internet marketer writing hypey reviews of a product out of the US? NO! It's called 'Jurisdiction' and it's up to local government to follow suit (yes, this may happen over time in your country but is totally out of scope of this thread).

It's akin to saying, if I spit gum in the streets of Singapore, I should not be arrested because US tourists don't take as much offense. Yet in Singapore you will be fined like crazy because that is their laws.

In my opinion, the worst that will happen to overseas marketers is that the FTC will go after US product vendors and punish them for not correctly 'vetting' their overseas affiliates. This will mean that US product vendors will either scrutinize or strictly prohibit overseas affiliates from selling their products. Then you have something to worry about and you will have to think locally instead of globally.

A takedown notice to your US webhost? In the realm of possiblilty but lets think bigger. Google is the one indexing and putting these sites in the face of the consumer, plus they are worth BILLIONS. Wouldn't it be easier to issue takedown notices to Google's US page index than bother chasing some small time webhost without the cash to contribute to the government coffers?

Please don't sweat this FTC thing, plus, if you do indeed get caught, the worst you're going to get is a warning anyway, US or not. FTC has gone on record for this and imagine the consumer confidence of the online world if they actually reneged and prosecuted straight away. Not going to happen.

Take it easy!

Cheers

[DogScout]

"FTC has gone on record for this and imagine the consumer confidence of the online world if they actually reneged and prosecuted straight away."

In my dealings with them, they are not above out & out lying in order to hope to catch some unawares. I am not sure in what world they care about anyone's confidence, (Bizaro World, maybe), but they could care less here.

I agree, if you live outside the US and have all your hosting, domains and business hook-ups with companies outside the US and plan to never make a trip here, you can probably do as you like.

[madison_avenue]

Originally Posted by rapidscc

Hi Imran, you're a bit out of line there buddy



Hi Madison, here's a review I found, its not a sales page though..look at the bottom of the page..clearly the guy doesn't want to offend the FTC

League of Extraordinary Minds - Business Coaching

It says:

"I will be bringing you more news about the League of Extraordinary Minds when I get it through a series of blogs probably all linking back to this first original blog.

Link to the League of Extraordinary Minds (affiliate link) - officially it starts October 15th but you may get ahead of the crowd.

Disclosure - I am an affiliate for the League of Extraordinary Minds and if you click through from my link and then buy something, I will earn a commission.

All the best!

Omar

Thanks for your example Omar. I think that guy has done it in a very obtrusive way.

I would not put write (aff link) in brackets after every link. Maybe in a disclosure policy on a separate page and two lines at the bottom of the page!

The FTC say:

“Whether you make it outside of the text but in proximity to blog, or incorporate it into the blog discussion itself — those are the issues that bloggers will have discretion about” [source].

So I assume a Disclosure Policy page visible from every page of the website should be sufficient.

[jrrich814]

ahhh - the FTC! Yet another gov agency trying desperately to prove their relevance and increase their power-base.

I used to work for a Dept of Energy site as its Email Postmaster and power-grabs like this one were commonplace.

I remember one in which a manager of the Records Storage department (with a total of 5 employees) tried to establish a requirement that ALL electronic communications (read email) had to be printed-out and turned over to them for 'proper' storage.

Our solution? We walked out of the meeting and simply ignored them. They went away.

Now, some FTC drone-of-a-manager is attempting the same thing - but on a much larger scale. If successful, the FTC suddenly becomes arbiter of what is or is not commercial speech on the Internet.

They're looking for increased power and budget and this seems like a likely target to them.

But implementation would be all but impossible considering the many billions of messages, blogs, and assorted communications happening on the Internet in any given day.

As for me? I intend to do what I did before - walk out of the meeting and ignore them.

Regards,
--JR

[thmgoodw]

Originally Posted by madison_avenue

A lot of online gambling companies are based in the UK where online gambling is legal . I think they have US customers. I don't know what the US government is doing about it because online gambling is illegal in the US.

The US shutdown a couple of US payment processors, the ones that were cutting the checks for the PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker. It caused a big hassle for getting your money out of these places for a little while.

Edit: It is clearly illegal for payment processors to make or receive payments relating to online gambling (including poker). Notwithstanding the U.S. Department of Justice's outspoken position, I (and many other) believe strongly that it is not against any federal law in the U.S. to play poker online for money. This won't be determined however until the U.S. actually goes after a U.S. player for a "test" case, but this likely won't happen.

[TMG Enterprises]

Doesn't the FTC guidelines specifically mention blogs and bloggers? My understanding is that they are targeting the people who make it seem that they have a regular blog to share information but actually are doing biased "reviews" that are nothing more than pre-sells without telling the reader that they are only trying to get a commission.

People expect that you're making money when you send them a recomendation in an email through your list but they don't expect it when they think the blogger is Sally Jo Homemaker, if you know what I mean.

They're targeting the deceptive practices, not normal marketing practices that are aboveboard.

Tina

[thmgoodw]

I'm sorry, but this is just plain wrong from a US legal perspective.

If a company/person sells a product to U.S. citizens to any significant and intentional manner, the U.S. courts will allow lawsuits and charges against such foreign company/person in U.S. courts. That was established by U.S. case law many years ago. If you take advantage of U.S. citizens the U.S. can come after you.

Now, once the the FDA or whomever wins in a U.S. court against, what happens?

Possibilities:
(1) They can seize any of your assets located in the U.S. or its territories (including shutting down any servers or webhosts based in the U.S.);

(2) They can arrest you if you ever step foot on U.S. soil;

(3) They can file suit against you in your home country, asking that the U.S. judgment be given reciprocal treatment in that country. Depending on where you live, this may or may not be given effect. If you are in Canada, odds are about 100%. If you are in the UK, odds are fairly good. If you live in Venezuala, odds are zero. You don't need any "foreign trade agreements" in place for this to be so.

(4) if you ever set foot in a country that would allow such reciprocity, the U.S. can ask for judgment the moment you step foot in that country.

I'm just tired of all the inaccuracies on here about what the U.S. law is. Will the U.S. come after you? Probably not. But don't assume that they can't.

Originally Posted by St Croix

Agreed.

Alright alright - Let's look at this logically fella's,

What the HELL can the FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION of USA do to us outside the US. People saying, "yes, they will be after us too!" just makes me laugh. Have any foreign trade agreements been signed as a result of this reform? NO. Will the US bother taking on an internet marketer writing hypey reviews of a product out of the US? NO! It's called 'Jurisdiction' and it's up to local government to follow suit (yes, this may happen over time in your country but is totally out of scope of this thread).

It's akin to saying, if I spit gum in the streets of Singapore, I should not be arrested because US tourists don't take as much offense. Yet in Singapore you will be fined like crazy because that is their laws.

In my opinion, the worst that will happen to overseas marketers is that the FTC will go after US product vendors and punish them for not correctly 'vetting' their overseas affiliates. This will mean that US product vendors will either scrutinize or strictly prohibit overseas affiliates from selling their products. Then you have something to worry about and you will have to think locally instead of globally.

A takedown notice to your US webhost? In the realm of possiblilty but lets think bigger. Google is the one indexing and putting these sites in the face of the consumer, plus they are worth BILLIONS. Wouldn't it be easier to issue takedown notices to Google's US page index than bother chasing some small time webhost without the cash to contribute to the government coffers?

Please don't sweat this FTC thing, plus, if you do indeed get caught, the worst you're going to get is a warning anyway, US or not. FTC has gone on record for this and imagine the consumer confidence of the online world if they actually reneged and prosecuted straight away. Not going to happen.

Take it easy!

Cheers

[Michael Lee]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Doesn't the FTC guidelines specifically mention blogs and bloggers? My understanding is that they are targeting the people who make it seem that they have a regular blog to share information but actually are doing biased "reviews" that are nothing more than pre-sells without telling the reader that they are only trying to get a commission.

Tina

If this is the case, then many marketers can rest easy. Just imagine if a marketer has thousands of webpages with affiliate links. It would take so much of their time just adding a disclosure in each one of their webpages, they wouldn't be able to work with their business anymore.

[madison_avenue]

I don't want to be accused of dragging up old news again but I read this on Michel Fortin's blog and I think it throws a new light on product endorsement. A question was asked of the FTC to clarify their approach:

When asked if the FTC views bloggers equally and whether or not it recognizes levels of authority a par with traditional media, Mary Engle, associate director for advertising practices, clarified its position and perspective, “All bloggers aren’t the same and we are not saying that all bloggers are marketers. Most of them are ordinary folks musing or sounding off.

The question as we put it in the notice we published today is whether, viewed objectively, the blogger is being sponsored by the advertiser. (We list a number of factors to consider.) Independent product reviewers, whether offline or online, would not be viewed as sponsored by the company whose products they are reviewing.”

[JackPowers]

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

Omar,

I believe i read somewhere the FTC rules applies outside US too. It has to do with "doing business" with us citizens or similar?

Hahaha! Yeah, the high and mighty FTC will be able to enforce that. Just like I can't buy pirated DVD's, fake luxury items and generic pharmacy withing 10 minutes where I live. American law is ONLY american law, no matter how much they want it to apply for the rest of the world. The Pirate Bay is a good example. They blatantly violated American copyright law (much more serious) and laughed at the attempts to scare them. It was only Swedish law that could (and did) take them down.

I can't understand why you Americans don't just register a corporate address in the Seychelles or somewhere else offshore and then just employ yourself. It's very easy really.

[Charann Miller]

Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso

In a couple years this way of "doing things" will be natural and people won't remember "the old days".

Just relax. It's a change in how we do things. As soon as everybody start using these new tricks, they'll become natural.

Just like back in the day, everyone advertising in Google Adwords that were promoting affiliate programs had to put "Aff." at the end of their ads.

After a while, nobody really noticed.

[laurenceh]

I may have this all wrong but, just like if you gather emails etc you have to have a privacy policy and terms of use, could we not just have a disclaimer footer like those and if a customer wants to click it they can or is this not transparent enough for the FTC?

I'm in the UK but wouldnt take any chances! Specially the way we're becoming a nanny state!

I understand this is to deter the players that use bad practice but for the industry as a whole, surely any lost revenue for us means lost income tax revenue for the government which means hmmmm more economic bother! Do these people want us to work and earn money for ourselves or rely on handouts!

Sorry slightly off topic but just sick of how it feels like big brother has gone out of control!!!

[ronakshah]

Originally Posted by laurenceh

I may have this all wrong but, just like if you gather emails etc you have to have a privacy policy and terms of use, could we not just have a disclaimer footer like those and if a customer wants to click it they can or is this not transparent enough for the FTC?

I'm in the UK but wouldnt take any chances! Specially the way we're becoming a nanny state!

I understand this is to deter the players that use bad practice but for the industry as a whole, surely any lost revenue for us means lost income tax revenue for the government which means hmmmm more economic bother! Do these people want us to work and earn money for ourselves or rely on handouts!

Sorry slightly off topic but just sick of how it feels like big brother has gone out of control!!!

I was just thinking of a disclaimer link in the footer stating the blog earns commissions on products recommended by me, can anyone who is legally & professionally equipped to comment advise us on the proposition?

[nicholasb]

this is not legal advice, but according to the conversation I had with my lawyer yes.

So what I do know is just let them know I am an affiliate and that I do earn a commission in the disclaimer at the bottom of the landing page.

Of course you want to seek out your own legal counseling and ask a local lawyer of your own.