Your ebook Terms of Service

[Moneyland]

Hi there,

I have my own product and have got someone on the legal side to write my Disclaimer/Terms of Service. She has included the following under the licience term:

The License Term
This length of use for the eBook will be for a term of 3 (three) years from the date of you have downloaded the eBook on your desired location. Upon expiration of this term, you agree to immediately cease your use of the eBook and will have no further rights under your registered use.

I didn't know what this licience term was all about in respect of selling an ebook so I asked for an explanation and this is what they said:

"What we meant by this license is that once they purchase the ebook, they
will be only a license to use and not be the owner of it. Being an owner would
mean using it anyway possible which could be detrimental to you. Many ebooks
have limited license terms after which the ebook activation code is
deactivated."

Does this sound like the norm in your terms when selling an ebook? Any help from anyone that has their own product would be appreciated because i still don't really understand this and didn't think this licience term was applicable for selling ebooks??

Many thanks if you can help.
Cheers

[PPV Guru]

Absolutely. This is to protect you from all possible problems. You have nothing to worry about.

Originally Posted by Moneyland

Hi there,

I have my own product and have got someone on the legal side to write my Disclaimer/Terms of Service. She has included the following under the licience term:

The License Term
This length of use for the eBook will be for a term of 3 (three) years from the date of you have downloaded the eBook on your desired location. Upon expiration of this term, you agree to immediately cease your use of the eBook and will have no further rights under your registered use.

I didn't know what this licience term was all about in respect of selling an ebook so I asked for an explanation and this is what they said:

"What we meant by this license is that once they purchase the ebook, they
will be only a license to use and not be the owner of it. Being an owner would
mean using it anyway possible which could be detrimental to you. Many ebooks
have limited license terms after which the ebook activation code is
deactivated."

Does this sound like the norm in your terms when selling an ebook? Any help from anyone that has their own product would be appreciated because i still don't really understand this and didn't think this licience term was applicable for selling ebooks??

Many thanks if you can help.
Cheers

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Are you including in your sales copy that they only have a license to use the eBook for three years?

If someone tells me I can only use an eBook I buy for three years, I wouldn't buy it. That would be especially true outside of IM niches. In IM, things may change in three years, although I do have some older IM books that still have useful information. But, consider a niche like gardening. So, if I buy an eBook on growing tomatoes, I have to stop using it after three years? That would be crazy.

[Frank Donovan]

What a load of nonsense.

I've never seen such terms applied to an ebook and I would have thought they were unenforceable, especially with a pdf.

Most ebooks happily sit on hard drives for many, many years



Frank

[PPV Guru]

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

What a load of nonsense.

I've never seen such terms applied to an ebook and I would have thought they were unenforceable, especially with a pdf.

Most ebooks happily sit on hard drives for many, many years



Frank

Keep in mind that terms are meant to protect companies. Most times, they aren't enforced unless someone tries to resell the ebook or do something to personally damage the company that sold it to them.

Chances are, you probably already bought products with those terms but didn't know it. Most people don't read the disclaimers.

But, again, they are to solely protect the company and the company most times don't enforce it unless something significantly wrongful was done by the buyer.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by PPV Guru

Keep in mind that terms are meant to protect companies. Most times, they aren't enforced unless someone tries to resell the ebook or do something to personally damage the company that sold it to them.

Chances are, you probably already bought products with those terms but didn't know it. Most people don't read the disclaimers.

But, again, they are to solely protect the company and the company most times don't enforce it unless something significantly wrongful was done by the buyer.

Most eBooks do have a terms of use, but these specific terms seem odd. I'm not sure what it's supposed to protect the company from here.

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by PPV Guru

Chances are, you probably already bought products with those terms but didn't know it. Most people don't read the disclaimers.

You'd lose your bet. No ebook I own or have ever contemplated owning carries such terms.

I'd be interested in seeing any ebooks currently being marketed under such a licence. Perhaps you could supply some links.


Frank

EDIT: BTW, a three-year usage licence wouldn't be legally covered by a simple disclaimer. It would have to be spelled out in the conditions of use.

[Steve Baker]

Really, an eBook that may sell for $47 or $97 with a 3 year licence? Most people don't even know where it is after 3 years or that they even bought it. I don't!

My focus is on copyright, not trying to make someone delete it in the future.

[PPV Guru]

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

Most eBooks do have a terms of use, but these specific terms seem odd. I'm not sure what it's supposed to protect the company from here.

I'm sure either, I'm just making a point that lawyers are only thinking about protecting their client from damages. That's what they get paid to do. Whatever my lawyer tells me to do, I never question. If my lawyer put that in my dislaimer, I'm not changing it.

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

You'd lose your bet. No ebook I own or have ever contemplated owning carries such terms.

I'd be interested in seeing any ebooks currently being marketed under such a licence. Perhaps you could supply some links.


Frank

EDIT: BTW, a three-year usage licence wouldn't be legally covered by a simple disclaimer. It would have to be spelled out in the conditions of use.

.......

Originally Posted by Steve Baker

Really, an eBook that may sell for $47 or $97 with a 3 year licence? Most people don't even know where it is after 3 years or that they even bought it. I don't!

My focus is on copyright, not trying to make someone delete it in the future.

Most ebooks are outdated within 12-18 months anyway as the ever fast evolving internet policies and systems change.

[Moneyland]

Thanks everyone and I did think this was abit strange and that is why I questioned it. I explained that I want my customers to download the ebook after payment and then they can keep it for as long as they want and this is her reply:

"Since you mentioned it is a license for as long as the users want to use, we
can say it is a perpetual, royalty free license? Is that fine?"

How does this sound?

If this does not sound right can anyone give me any clues as to what might be better?

Many thanks again!

[PPV Guru]

Originally Posted by Moneyland

Thanks everyone and I did think this was abit strange and that is why I questioned it. I explained that I want my customers to download the ebook after payment and then they can keep it for as long as they want and this is her reply:

"Since you mentioned it is a license for as long as the users want to use, we
can say it is a perpetual, royalty free license? Is that fine?"

How does this sound?

If this does not sound right can anyone give me any clues as to what might be better?

Many thanks again!

This is good. Also make sure she includes that the buyer does NOT have resell rights and can't give it away, resell, trade or alter it for any purposes.

Unless, of course, you're selling master resell rights to this product.

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by Moneyland

I explained that I want my customers to download the ebook after payment and then they can keep it for as long as they want and this is her reply:

"Since you mentioned it is a license for as long as the users want to use, we
can say it is a perpetual, royalty free license? Is that fine?"

How does this sound?

I'm wondering how much experience your lawyer has with ebook user agreements. The standard TOS would normally stipulate that the ebook is for the sole use of the buyer and that the rights are non transferable (unless you wanted to offer resale rights).

Otherwise your ebook is covered by standard copyright law.


Frank

[Madeline]

It so happens, that when you download an ebook from a link, the licensors give you an activation code that needs to be entered to activate the ebook. Since most ebooks are practically on a perpetual license (not to forget that we do forget that it is sitting still after a course of time), many licensors try to limit the term of the license with a few years from the download or at best the code expires (just like a trial version of a software we download). At times they are also renew automatically without the mention of any activation code. It is not that it is odd, but less prevalent. These are useful for techincal ebooks where the information is proprietary and can be at a risk if exposed for too long.

Although any literary work is covered by the copyright laws of the respective countries, however it is always better to have such terms written that govern the usage of the users. Generally layperson tend to overlook these untill and unless they see something before their eyes.

I am a lawyer and I do feel that although there exist copyright laws, unless and untill you have written set of terms and rights of the licensors in addition to what have been implied by law, you will tend to see ebooks of similar nature everywhere. Otherwise, why do we see cases of plagiarism, and breach of copyright nowadays so much in the scene. These are reality and must be tackled. And having a limited and/or perpetual license term is one such way.

[bobsstuff]

I do not know anything about the law but I would think that if you put that term in your ebook, you would also have to put that disclaimer on your sales copy page and in any email or promotions you do for the product.

Expiring ebooks? Are you talking about .EXE ebooks. Those have fallen out of favor from what I have read here in the forum.

Personally I would probably NOT buy an expiring ebook. I would also not knowingly buy a .exe ebook. The .exe ebooks I bought in the past were a pain to read and as I recall I could not print them. I prefer to read paper copy, not on my computer screen.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by PPV Guru

I'm sure either, I'm just making a point that lawyers are only thinking about protecting their client from damages. That's what they get paid to do. Whatever my lawyer tells me to do, I never question. If my lawyer put that in my dislaimer, I'm not changing it.

If something strikes me as odd, I question it. It may be that the lawyer misunderstood the information I gave him or I did not communicate it clearly enough. Or, it could be that it's something I didn't know I needed. In either case, I'm going to ask questions about things that don't seem right to me. And, if the response I get doesn't make sense to me, I'll ask more questions.

The reason you have a lawyer do legal stuff for you is to protect yourself. However, your own responsibility for protecting yourself doesn't end at the lawyer's doorstep. It's a continuing process.

The reason for asking questions isn't because you don't trust the lawyer (if you didn't trust him or her, you'd use someone else...) but because miscommunications happen. Better to ask a few questions--and keep asking them if the answers don't make sense--than to blindly follow what the lawyer tells you, especially when it doesn't make sense to you.

Most ebooks are outdated within 12-18 months anyway as the ever fast evolving internet policies and systems change.

Maybe in the IM niche, but definitely not elsewhere. I don't think an eBook on gardening is going to be significantly different in 12-18 months, nor is one on crafts, dog training, playing guitar, auto restoration, furniture repair, how to build a chicken coop, etc.

Originally Posted by Madeline

It so happens, that when you download an ebook from a link, the licensors give you an activation code that needs to be entered to activate the ebook.

Not with the majority of eBooks I've ever purchased.

[PPV Guru]

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

If something strikes me as odd, I question it. It may be that the lawyer misunderstood the information I gave him or I did not communicate it clearly enough. Or, it could be that it's something I didn't know I needed. In either case, I'm going to ask questions about things that don't seem right to me. And, if the response I get doesn't make sense to me, I'll ask more questions.

The reason you have a lawyer do legal stuff for you is to protect yourself. However, your own responsibility for protecting yourself doesn't end at the lawyer's doorstep. It's a continuing process.

The reason for asking questions isn't because you don't trust the lawyer (if you didn't trust him or her, you'd use someone else...) but because miscommunications happen. Better to ask a few questions--and keep asking them if the answers don't make sense--than to blindly follow what the lawyer tells you, especially when it doesn't make sense to you.

I understand what you and everyone is saying. This post isn't about our own personal methods of doing business with our own lawyers. The gentleman merely wanted input and that was mine.

We can disagree, that's fine. And regarding this topic, I agree to just disagree with everyone and let everyone else run their business they way they see fit.

After all, what works for one person doesn't work for all. The end result, is our common goal...to make money honestly while protecting our assets. I think everyone can agree with this idea.

[Madeline]

Anything that specifies a time period is a 'term' of a license. In this way having a perpetual license means having a perpetual term-license. Here we are talking having a 'limited' term license which is less prevalent.

Yes I agree it varies with people, authors, the types of books, feasibility, market acceptance to such kinds of ebooks etc.So we can't have a cookie cutter approach and have to be thoughtful.

Honestly, majority of legal provisions that we see are not much 'market' friendly. Since they bind us into something and may limit our scope of anything we do or want to do. So we will have to see what is more important 'making money' or 'operate within the legal framework'.

[Madeline]

Also, it is always good to question your lawyer as it is also your responsibililty to participate in the process of drafting something legally binding.

[jacktackett]

I have never seen this for pdf ebooks or indeed any type of book-with the exception of user manuals for software where the software is licensed. The only place I've event remotely seen something like this is in scripts for stage plays where the organization is licensed to produce/put on a play.

Licenses typically deal with software in our industry.

Also - I've not seen adobe ask for an activation code, only passwords. Are you talking about PDF based ebooks - or programs that display contents - like the one from IMC or that come with things like the Kindle?

Finally if you do go ahead with these license terms - you really need to make sure the people who purchase this can see/read the license BEFORE they buy. Otherwise I hope you screw up on a busy day when the FTC is looking elsewhere; or at most the courts just invalidate your license.

good luck, but I think you should put more emphasis on giving your customers' good content than worrying they're going to rip you off.

My $0.02 anyways,

--Jack

[freudianslip27]

Wow, I've never heard of this before, and I sell and create lots of ebooks.

One thing that doesn't happen with ebooks is that they are typically "resold", like physical books can be. It's a different game, and I guess this is partially why some companies are putting this strange license restriction in.

This ebook will self-destruct in T-Minus 3 years!

Matt

[CliveG]

Not sure about where you are but in the UK the three year term would almost certainly have to be spelled out very clearly BEFORE PURCHASE for it to be valid, particularly in something like the aforementioned gardening niche. It would have to be so clear that it would be a real turn-off on your sales page.

[wordwizard]

Originally Posted by CliveG

Not sure about where you are but in the UK the three year term would almost certainly have to be spelled out very clearly BEFORE PURCHASE for it to be valid, particularly in something like the aforementioned gardening niche. It would have to be so clear that it would be a real turn-off on your sales page.

I agree.

One additional wrinkle on PDFs. I've come across PDFs that had restrictions, from passwords, which I suppose you could set to expire, to print restrictions.

Don't know how they do that, and I find it very annoying when I come across one that does that.