Newbies: Sorry to disappoint, but there is one word you've badly misunderstood ...

[Bev Clement]

Martin, wash your mouth out with soap and water, you used the ban word for newbies. WORK.

This might be a shock to some, but buying a product will NEVER, EVER make you money.

Now before someone tells me differently, look at what I said, buying a product, not using a product, there is a huge difference.

I said this at the warrior event, and we needed a translation from Elmer.

Too many IMers live in cloud cuckoo land.

[zachary0611]

It is very hard earning money online. The best success I have had was starting an arcade site which still didnt produce that much money. I am convinced that the easiest way to make money is to blog about what you are an expert in your own personal niche then get the traffic and content first and then monetize it.

[Martin.Avis]

Originally Posted by VinnyBock

That is pretty funny, a well written post with a good point you got across, but your sig is the root of the problem.

No, your misinterpretation of what the sig is offering is the root of the problem.

Nowhere in that sig is the word easy used. I do say that you need to put in two hours work though - and isn't it funny how many people object to that!

Martin

[karlp295]

Well done to all those who have posted here. At last people speaking the truth and well said!

I have more "experience" online than most. 11 years. It is hard putting in the hours of research and trial and error as well as testing etc. before the penny drops. Then after all that work - most of it very repetitive and lonely- success comes and then it can be termed easy but still in fact no. Never easy. Let the newbies know the truth I say!

NO MORE MAKE 35,000 dollars in three days with no product, website, list or blog...NO MORE PLEASE

[George Wright]

Martin,

And there you have the root of the problem, Martin. Interpretation of the copy. My first successful info product was met with rave reviews by literally 99% of my buyers. 3 out of all that bought requested a refund because it was, and I quote each request, "too much work." Honestly, it was EASY work. Just too much EASY work.

George Wright P.S. I came to IM after 20+ years of carpet cleaning. A local government agency hired me to teach people on welfare how to clean carpets so they could get off of welfare. I had one successful student and business wise he surpassed me by miles. ALL the others dropped out because, (read in a whine) "It's too hard." Carpet cleaning = Spray on presoak. Vacuum carpet with a power sprayer attached to a Vacuum cleaner. (Called a steam cleaner.) There, I just taught you how to clean carpets. And, cleaning carpets is harder than Internet Marketing.

George Wright

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

No, your misinterpretation of what the sig is offering is the root of the problem.

Nowhere in that sig is the word easy used. I do say that you need to put in two hours work though - and isn't it funny how many people object to that!

Martin

[la dominatrix]

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

Ah but that's the point. Two hours of work might be easy for me after 8 years of practice, but it certainly isn't easy for someone with 8 minutes experience. My WSO teaches all the stuff I've taken 8 years to learn, but I don't say that absorbing that knowledge is easy or requires no work at all.

It isn't difficult, but nothing good is ever completely handed to you on a plate either.

Effort in = rewards out.

Martin

In essence though they are noit being sold a blueprint or a business they are being sold a dream. As everyone who has ever made any money in this knows that it takes a lot to turn a dream into viable businesss, but would they even start out if they know what it takes.

Most of these peopel have no conception thatm ost self employed people work harder than anyone else at least to start. As Martin says when you have been doing stuff for ages it is a two hour job but nay one of those fifteen minute conponents may take a newbie three or four hours
La dominatrix

[ivana]

You know, yesterday I posted a good strategy thread for newbies. Explaining a very solid system. System that made me a lot of money, but no I did not flash them money in front of their eyes, I explained how they can do it, without investing any money.

Now the whole thread was written because i had received 3 e-mails asking for help and since they did not have any money to invest, I explained how they can do it. And this really is an easy set up and really anyone can do this. Even advanced people can use this strategy.

But you know. after just few comment I realized, 95% of people who read that will never EVER take action. They will jump on the next "easy money" and I do feel bad for them.

and you know, that system could have made them their first commission tomorrow, but they will never know that.

[mfleisch]

Wow.. great string fellow warriors. I agree with the original premise that making money "easily" is a bit overdone. That said, I do believe that focusing on a single process for making money online is ideal.

What was so difficult for me at first was finding one course or process that I could stick with until it started generating money. All of these make money products have some value but as a newbie, who can you trust.

Making money online takes a huge investment in time and sometimes money. What you get in return is an education. Apply that well and eventually you'll start making a consistent income from online marketing.

[pharris1]

This is a great thread. As an aging newbie I have to say I was lured into IM'ing with fantasies of making quick cash, the easy way. Once I dove in I realized that that wasn't the case. It became obvious very quickly that in order to draw a substantial income from this business it would take daily, consistent action to achieve your goals.

I think the guy that started this thread makes a great point - he's been doing this long enough that running and growing his business will be easier for him than for someone just starting out. The concept of making easy money is relative. I don't know of any other business that you can be involved in for very little start up cash that has the potential to return big dividends, whether that is within a few months or a few years.

I am guilty of wanting quick cash in the beginning. I now realize those that are successful at this and make it look "easy" have paid their dues in many ways to get where they are. That is good to know because is one person can do it - why can't I?

It's inspiring.

Peter

[devilishsaint]

Yeah its never and need consistent time and effort. At a later stage it may look easier because you are well organized and really know how to cope with certain problems. But in start its difficult and needs lots of patience.

[George Wright]

Ivana,

Expect to get badmouthed for suggesting that we need to take action. Taking action is too hard. And then if we do take action and it doesn't work of course it's your fault.

My statistics are general and not scientific but for every success story on a "method" there are probably 100 failures. This is true online and offline. More businesses fail than succeed. A successful Micky D's franchiser would laugh at a failed Micky D's franchiser if the failure tried to blame the training.

Things are a little different online.

George Wright

Originally Posted by ivana

You know, yesterday I posted a good strategy thread for newbies. Explaining a very solid system. System that made me a lot of money, but no I did not flash them money in front of their eyes, I explained how they can do it, without investing any money.

Now the whole thread was written because i had received 3 e-mails asking for help and since they did not have any money to invest, I explained how they can do it. And this really is an easy set up and really anyone can do this. Even advanced people can use this strategy.

But you know. after just few comment I realized, 95% of people who read that will never EVER take action. They will jump on the next "easy money" and I do feel bad for them.

and you know, that system could have made them their first commission tomorrow, but they will never know that.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by davebo

4) Do you ever notice how many "Thanks" a thread like this gets because people like to get all self righteous. Steve W take notice (he he)

Notice taken Dave. Have a nice day.

[Mark Collard]

Wow - a lot of comments here, and I agree with most of them, especially asking "WHAT IS THE SMARTEST WAY TO MAKE MONEY ONLINE"

Anything worth getting is going to take some time and effort. I started IM about 18 months ago, and only in the past few months I have been able to say that I'm really starting to turn over a decent passive income.

[George Wright]

Originally Posted by davebo

All right guys. Get off your high horses already.

3) I look forward to this same thread in about another month.

Hey davebo,

I'll try to remember to start it since you are looking forward to it.

George Wright

[showpage]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Guess what?

No talent...no results.

I have to disagree here. Talent is VERY overrated. I will always rather bet on focused effort and persistence.

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not. Nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not. Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not. The would is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent." -- Calvin Coolidge

[Ken Durham]

I must admit that I have never pulled my back or fallen off of a ladder while working with my online businesses. So in that respect it is easier to make money online. But mental work is an entirely different issue.

There are so many facets to the Internet today that I believe many just get overwhelmed by it all. Website develoment, article marketing, blogs, social networking, digg, Google, SEO, SERPs, PR, Google penalties, Adsense, adwords, facebook, backlinks, dofollow, white hat, black hat, and on and on with ever increasing tasks that I believe just simply overwhelm the masses that look at the overall picture.
None of these items are hard on their own, but mass them all together and they appear to be a very large if not impossible project.

I also think a lot of newbs and experienced turn the word "tedious" into the bad form of the word "Work". Some of this stuff is just plain boring so it gets procrastinated on a daily basis. "Link Building?!..uggg.....perhaps tomorrow...I'll check out warrior forum and see if they have come up with a new way so I don't have to do this"

This then backs up on them and they now have to work very hard to get caught up. All very simple but all very tedious.
Many seeing this just give up and move onto something else with less work or want to start again to keep on top of these items the next time around.

The fact is, if you cannot afford to outsource some work then you must put in sweat equity.

Another problem I see is so many people go for the Very Large Niches. Yes there is good money in them but that means there is also companies involved in the niche that can hire writers, SEO, developers, and so on.

So once a person figures out that they must battle a billion dollar company they just toss up their hands and ask how they can compete against such large entities. And most often they cannot compete with their limited knowledge. So now they must learn. And for many that is hard work in itself.

I guess in some aspects working with the Internet is both hard and easy at the same time while being as unpredictable as the Google SERPs.

[mikemcmillan]

Anyone who has seen any of my stuff has no doubt seen this, but I'll repeat it here.

"Affiliate marketing is not a game; Don't mistake it for one. To succeed you must be willing to do what your competition is unwilling or unable to do."

The problem is that a lot of noobs want to do less than their competition does and yet earn more. There is some faulty logic there.

[Slin]

Good post, honestly nothing to add, just saying that this took me awhile to learn

Fortunately i found I love this work.

[infoshot]

Man, talk about a can of worms.

[Vikuna2009+]

Originally Posted by TinkerAndPo

A grand? Nah, I'm going for two this month. Nearly there, too.

Yea, I know, should have finished reading the thread but could not stop chuklin', lol. The dominatrix part, GOSH, was I in for an awaking, .

YEARS ago, I -sub-leased some creative space for my custom drapery business and soon learned that the daughter was a dominatrix in N.Y., charging $350 an HOUR (AND, that is about 15 years ago). What the #ell DID she do ???

The mother herself, I found out, was a lesbian and continued to haunt me, and the whole thing ended up in a BIG disaster (no, I did NOT go there, lol).

So, I guess, lazy noobs, maybe this is your avenue. lol (and NO, I am not being serious).

All the best, Eva

[johnsamuels]

Originally Posted by susanm

If it's not easy, then I want a refund on 95% of the IM products I have ever purchased. I also want to know what's so darn hard about turning "2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income" (see your sig). And I also want my damn biscuit! Woof! Er, I mean, meow.

Exactly.

Newbies have not misunderstood anything, they have been misled.

[hotftuna]

Success in IM comes from knowledge based on experience, and resources that are developed over time.

For many, carefully cultivated email lists are there resource. For me it is a handful of quality directories and repeat customers.

How can you offer a newbie looking for a tip either your hard earned resources or knowledge based on (the newbie's) experience?

[lina75]

All I want is a shorter learning curve, a step by step guide that teaches, not telling what to do. As a newbie I also know how to make 3K a month: write 10 articles a day equaling 300 a month, choose 5-10 niches and post it to ezine, after that post to several directories, but if you want to be more effective, rewrite the article then post it to directories. Once you're done go to socialmarker and bookmark all your articles.
After a month those products that sells, create backlinks by creating free websites or blogs pointing to that product website.

If you want more revenue, add adsense to your site or you can even add some CPA polls to the site that are pulling in the traffic. so you have 3 source of income there.

I know this thread was started because of the question I posted- Some of you might have earn so much money that you forgot your roots on how you got started and becomes critical of your past.
Some earned their status the hard way so they expect everybody to follow their path.

My thread say's show me how to make $1000 online the easy way, I never say $10,000 or more. I just want to make $1000 that's it. Put it this way- all of you experienced warriors that make tons of money are like officers, executives or CEO's and I am someone who just ask around: do you know how I can make $1000 dollars so that I can at least have some joy in my life...I don't want to be like you-Because i know the learning curve is steep.
In the real world...sure there is way, you can be a rubbish collector or tea lady.

So on the online world I am sure there is a way too, I was hoping for that way.
At first I want to be like you...those Executive, CEOs so I bought WSOs, Ebooks,join membership site but the learning curve is so steep and many manual never really teaches you, they just tells you how to do it and some even tells you to find out yourself on you tube and yet claim ito be newbie friendly.

Sorry just venting out my frustration.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by lina75

All I want is a shorter learning curve, a step by step guide that teaches, not telling what to do. As a newbie I also know how to make 3K a month: write 10 articles a day equaling 300 a month, choose 5-10 niches and post it to ezine, after that post to several directories, but if you want to be more effective, rewrite the article then post it to directories. Once you're done go to socialmarker and bookmark all your articles.
After a month those products that sells, create backlinks by creating free websites or blogs pointing to that product website.

If you want more revenue, add adsense to your site or you can even add some CPA polls to the site that are pulling in the traffic. so you have 3 source of income there.

I know this thread was started because of the question I posted- Some of you might have earn so much money that you forgot your roots on how you got started and becomes critical of your past.
Some earned their status the hard way so they expect everybody to follow their path.

My thread say's show me how to make $1000 online the easy way, I never say $10,000 or more. I just want to make $1000 that's it. Put it this way- all of you experienced warriors that make tons of money are like officers, executives or CEO's and I am someone who just ask around: do you know how I can make $1000 dollars so that I can at least have some joy in my life...I don't want to be like you-Because i know the learning curve is steep.
In the real world...sure there is way, you can be a rubbish collector or tea lady.

So on the online world I am sure there is a way too, I was hoping for that way.
At first I want to be like you...those Executive, CEOs so I bought WSOs, Ebooks,join membership site but the learning curve is so steep and many manual never really teaches you, they just tells you how to do it and some even tells you to find out yourself on you tube and yet claim ito be newbie friendly.

Sorry just venting out my frustration.

Lina, you say that there must be a way to make $1,000 easily.

Based on what?

Because that's what YOU want to believe?

Please show me evidence that supports your feeling this way.

This is no different from me saying, "I know there has to be a way that I
can get a song of mine recorded by a major or even independent label."

Yes, I am a songwriter. I have been writing songs seriously for over 25 years.

I have YET to get one of my songs recorded.

Now, I have been told why. I have been shown specifically what I am
doing wrong and what I have to change. It involves a lot of work on MY
part. And I'm not talking about even having a career as a songwriter or
having a hit record or a Grammy Award winner.

I'm talking about having one lousy song recorded.

Just because I want to believe there has to be an easy way for that to
happen doesn't mean that one exists, not that I do believe that. I'm just
using this as an example.

Wanting something or believing something doesn't make it so.

Having said that, you want to make $1,000 without having to sell anything
at all? You won't even need a website or anything.

Write 200 articles and sell them for $5 a piece.

There's your $1,000.

Want to make more?

Write more articles.

I started out as a freelancer. I was a lousy marketer. Couldn't do squat.
Finally I stumbled onto the freelance market, saw I had a talent for writing
and jumped on it.

Then I wrote my first book on how to break into freelancing.

And the rest was history.

Anyway, there you have it...the easiest way I know of to make $1,000.

Sell 200 articles for $5 a piece.

Or sell 500 articles for $2 a piece. At $2, you'll have tons of people begging
you to write for them.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by John Burton

This point of this thread might carry a bit more weight if your signature did not read ' Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income?'. I fear you've made a bit of a fool out of yourself.

How is this making a fool of oneself?

Do you know how many hours a week I now work to make 6 figures a year?

It can be done.

Notice he doesn't say that it will turn into a 6 figure income overnight. It will
take time. Anything worth doing takes time.

But you decide to read more into that line than what is actually there.

Technically, you can make 6 figures a year without doing any work. If
you have the money and a blueprint, you can outsource every little thing
that has to be done and just sit back and cash the checks.

How much work do you think Donald Trump actually does?

Do you think he lays one brick for any of his buildings?

There may be fools in this thread but Martin is certainly not one of them.

[Matt Maiden]

As someone who has been a subscriber of Martin's newsletter for years and also as someone who has bought and used many of Martin's products I feel that I can make a statement based on personal first hand experience.

You guys who are taking jabs at Martin because of his sig are way off base. If you have not purchased any of his products or read anything by him other than this thread, you are not in a position to judge him.

As a customer I can tell you that Martin has never used deceit, shifty cleverness, borderline unethical behavior, or been misleading in any way. Quite the contrary.

If you have ever read any of his ebooks, reports, or newsletter you too would believe that Martin is nothing short of sincere and genuinely wants to see you succeed.

You can have whatever opinion you want about this thread and debate all night if you want to but you have no personal knowledge of his products so to take the shots that you are taking about his sig just come off as low blows.

Matt

[Steven Fullman]

What kind of whacked out nonsense is THAT, Dave?

1. Replace "Easy" with "Effortless", or better yet..."Autopilot"

2. Wow, people work hard for their money? Man, I'm obviously doing something right.

3. I look forward to reading the replies.

4. Self-righteous? Waggers? Nah. Self-pitying, maybe. Self-indulgent...who knows. Self-obsessed - possibly. But Waggers is as selfless as they come.

Steve

Originally Posted by davebo

All right guys. Get off your high horses already.

1) I don't think almost all (like someone said) people think it's going to be easy.
2) I feel like these threads are not really for the newbies, but for people to hear themselves talk about how hard they work. It's basically an entire thread where people reword the original post about 1000 times.
3) I look forward to this same thread in about another month.
4) Do you ever notice how many "Thanks" a thread like this gets because people like to get all self righteous. Steve W take notice (he he)

[George Wright]

Originally Posted by John Burton

This point of this thread might carry a bit more weight if your signature did not read ' Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income?'. I fear you've made a bit of a fool out of yourself.

Martin did not make a fool of himself.

George Wright

[George Wright]

Sorry whitney01,

When you post general statements like that it doesn't ring true for those who have made money easily online overnight. However, I really hope you are able to do it someday.

George Wright

Originally Posted by whitney01

You can't make money easily online. There are no such things that you can earn a lot of money in just the whole night. I remember there are lot of those softwares they offered in the net that when you buy and install the software to your computer you can find a good online work. I think those are all scams. So be careful to those also.

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by whitney01

You can't make money easily online. There are no such things that you can earn a lot of money in just the whole night. I remember there are lot of those softwares they offered in the net that when you buy and install the software to your computer you can find a good online work. I think those are all scams. So be careful to those also.

You can.

I made my first dollars online flipping one of those "TV On PC" offers.

Here's what I did (and I had NO CLUE about IM):

1. Grabbed an MRR copy of the software
2. Made a piss-poor, but unique website design
3. Wrote some even worse sales copy.
4. Sold the "site" as a "business in a box" offer
5. ...to lots of people

Total time invested: 3 days
Total cash returned: $3,000

Making money IS easy.

Making CONSISTENT money is where lots of people fall over.

Steve

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

4. Self-righteous? Waggers? Nah. Self-pitying, maybe. Self-indulgent...who knows. Self-obsessed - possibly. But Waggers is as selfless as they come.

Steve

Self-pitying? - Check. (oh poor pitiful misunderstood me. )
Self-indulgent? - Check (I love indulging myself...it's fun. )
Self-obsessed? - Check (I am borderline obsessive-compulsive. )

But self righteous? Please. I'm the last person to put myself above others. I
have had more screwups in my life than Carter has liver pills. If I had a dollar
for every boneheaded thing I've ever done, I wouldn't have to work
anymore.

As far as being selfless, sometimes. But there are times I can be a
selfish SOB when I'm in a bad mood. I don't like being taken advantage of
and when I am, I get flat out hostile and I'll be the first to admit it.

But you treat me fairly and I'll give you the shirt off my back. I'm not going
to get all self-indulgent now and talk about all the selfless things I've
done in my life because quite frankly, aside from it being in poor taste, it's
none of anybody's business.

The people who I have done things for, gone out of my way for, they
know who they are and what kind of person I am.

The rest...doesn't matter what they think. I'm not here to impress them.

And for the record, I have met some amazingly selfless people here. People
who, when I had a serious problem, came to my rescue, whether it was
a technical problem, hackers or whatever. I don't forget the people who
have had my back. I won't name names because that would be in poor
taste too. But they know who they are and I thank them sincerely.

Steve, as for Dave's comment to me, 10 months ago I would have
exploded and caused a scene because I let everybody push my buttons,
as you are all too aware.

Today, I flat out don't care.

See, in the grand scheme of things, one person's opinion of me doesn't
really amount to a hill of beans in this vast universe.

And if this all sounds terribly melodramatic (something else about me you
forgot to mention) then good.

Some things shouldn't change.

As a famous singer once said, "I am what I am."

Boy that felt good!

[Steven Fullman]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Boy that felt good!

Steve,

You're a diamond. You know that?

We know that.

Steve

[Alexissalaam]

Thanks Martin

This needed to be said there is no magic button there's
research, research and even more research and just when
you've think you've nailed it here comes some more research.

Every marketer needs to understand even though we're not
in a traditional brick and mortar business there is still just as
much work not to mention carpal tunnel.

The IM business is a real business and needs to be treated as such
that means putting the in time and the money, you dont need much money
in the beginning like a traditional business, but you still have to be in the
same mindset that you're going to do what ever you have to to make it
work, so hop to it and get to work.

[tremayne]

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

Sorry. It had to be said. Making money online - and I mean real money, pay the bills and feed the kids money, consistent, do-it-again-next-month money - that takes effort, skill, experience and work.

It ain't easy.

Martin

It's not just the work; you have to have the guts to stick with it when the going gets tough. Too many people throw up their hands and say: "Oh, that internet stuff is just a scam. No one make any money!"

Well, that's just not true - but it ain't easy!

Someone makming a million in 24 hours makes it sound as if it's easy - but what went into the preparation beforehand?

I have spend four years on a project that I am convinced will be successful. The fact that it is not successful now is not the Internet's fault; it is mine.

You want easier (still not easy): stick to what you already know then hire experts to help you in fields you don't know. Had I done that, my product would have been out and selling well in 6 months not four years.

Even now, the marketing and presentation side is about to be completely revamped - this time by proven experts who have spent years learning what I currently do not know well enough (obviously).

But you can't afford to hire experts, you say? Would you sympathize with anyone who told you he couldn't afford to buy a MacDonald's franchise? There are people who tell rookies it costs nothing to get into this business. Not true!

If you know nothing, you will need to learn. Not only does that cost time, it costs money, perhaps lots of it. I have probably spent (and misspent) $30,000 over the past four years. I have "made" less that $1,000!

But I have strong confidence in the product I offer. I know it is the best on the market for my target audience. So why aren't I fighting buyers off at the door? Because there are precious few of them. Is that their fault? No, it is mine. Something I am doing is not being done well enough.

You can have the finest product in the world and it will stay on the shelf, unrecognized and unloved, without excellent marketing.

I have tried to earn marketing for four years - along with website design, sales copy writing, innumerable software programs, and enough PDF courses to reach the ceiling and beyond. I have worded an average of 100 hours every week, 7 days a week except Christmas Day. My only 'outings' have been to church.

Am I sorry for myself? Not in the least. I know far more than I did when I started and I am that much closer to success.

Having said all that, we should not be too hard on newbies. We all remember the days of being lost and snowed under by the welter of information, not knowing which way to turn, yet seeing almost every week people turning out $1 million products as apparently easily as sausages from a machine.

It is small wonder they look to us for the easy answers they are sure must be out there somewhere if onloy some kind person would give them the key to the magic box.

The kindest thing we can do for them is, as Martin did, let them know there ain't no free lunch. They face millions of competitors and their first task is to make themselves strong enough to take them on.

Sydney

[Steven Fullman]

Sydney,

Seems the "Thanks" button is out of order...I can't thank you enough for your post.

I wanted to thank you once for every spot-on comment you just made, but alas I can't

I can only thank you once in total...

So, you'll just have to believe me when I say, I think your post was awesome.

Steve

[Bev Clement]

Steve it worked just on a go slow

[tremayne]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Sydney,

Seems the "Thanks" button is out of order...I can't thank you enough for your post.

I wanted to thank you once for every spot-on comment you just made, but alas I can't

I can only thank you once in total...

So, you'll just have to believe me when I say, I think your post was awesome.

Steve

Hi Steven!

Got your thanks and it is appreciated. So is Bev's.

But I say only what I feel. If you want to be a high-earning surgeon, it takes about 12 years of training to earn six figures. A struggling lawyer? Eight years for quite possibly a struggling income. Why would anyone assume they can earn six figures on the Internet just by asking on a forum how it's done?

But perhaps it's our fault for making it sound easy; maybe it's the fault of the sellers of some training materials who tell you it can be done with three clicks of the mouse! Who knows, but the truth is it ain't easy - and thank God it isn't or some of us would be kicking ourselves for the hours we have spent trying to learn a craft.

[Sonomacats]

Originally Posted by bluegold14

All I've seen online, specially from most IMarketers, is hype, hype, hype and false promises.

Your signature is just a crystal clear example. If my understanding of written English is correct, it states that anyone who wants to make a six-figure income working only two hours a week just needs to buy your WSO. And nowhere can I read that "8 years of practice" is required.

But I'm just a dumb newbie looking for the easy way...

"And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?"

Clearly you're not familiar with Martin's work. He has a fabulous newsletter that comes out several times a week and ALWAYS gives great information and tells it like it is. I've been on his list for years and can tell you he's the real deal. Unlike most of the low number posters on this forum. (And before you get on me for low numbers, note that I only post when I have something to say AND I was out of commission for over 2 years beause of a car accident.)

Yes, he currently has a WSO, but generally that's not the case. He usually posts without anything going on the Special Offer area.

His posting is right on the money. Too many people think they can make a fortune online without doing any work. Yes, it's easy down the line, but initially, you have to put in the time learning and figuring stuff out. I certainly have learned that myself.

So before you dump all over Martin Avis, take what he has to say and learn from it. Because he's frickin' RIGHT!

[Sonomacats]

And thank you, Martin, for a right on posting. Everyone else has said it better than I could. But good on!

[johnsamuels]

Originally Posted by tremayne

Having said all that, we should not be too hard on newbies. We all remember the days of being lost and snowed under by the welter of information, not knowing which way to turn, yet seeing almost every week people turning out $1 million products as apparently easily as sausages from a machine.

It is small wonder they look to us for the easy answers they are sure must be out there somewhere if onloy some kind person would give them the key to the magic box.

The kindest thing we can do for them is, as Martin did, let them know there ain't no free lunch. They face millions of competitors and their first task is to make themselves strong enough to take them on.

Sydney

I can agree with some of that, but in all seriousness Martin's thread title and general tone was very poorly chosen.

If it had been something along the lines of "Guys don't give up, even though it is not as easy as all the IM books promised it would be, you can still succeed if you put the work in" then I would be far more accepting.

But it was not. Those new to IM have not 'badly misunderstood' any word, unless Martin means that when an IM guru says 'easy' you should actually take that to mean hard. Newbies have not misunderstood anything, they have been misled by hundreds upon thousands of ebooks and videos, overselling on promises yet under delivering on results.

There are obvious exceptions to the above statement, but it works as a general rule. At the extreme end of the scale we have people in here selling WSOs about methods they have never actually used themselves, let alone turned a profit from.

[George Wright]

Martin's Title was brilliant from the stand point of starting a lively discussion. Threads on the same subject with lesser titles have died a quick and silent death. It attracted a lively discussion with a lot of great points made for different sides, including yours johnsamuels.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and in this discussion mine is that titles like Martins and the subsequent posts bring to surface two mentalities. Winners and (not losers ) Victims. Be a winner or be a victim. It's a choice.

Poor me or Me the Winner. Personally, I've never liked the "Why me" and the "Poor Me" feeling.

George Wright

Originally Posted by johnsamuels

I can agree with some of that, but in all seriousness Martin's thread title and general tone was very poorly chosen.

If it had been something along the lines of "Guys don't give up, even though it is not as easy as all the IM books promised it would be, you can still succeed if you put the work in" then I would be far more accepting.

But it was not. Those new to IM have not 'badly misunderstood' any word, unless Martin means that when an IM guru says 'easy' you should actually take that to mean hard. Newbies have not misunderstood anything, they have been misled by hundreds upon thousands of ebooks and videos, overselling on promises yet under delivering on results.

There are obvious exceptions to the above statement, but it works as a general rule. At the extreme end of the scale we have people in here selling WSOs about methods they have never actually used themselves, let alone turned a profit from.

[dean7227]

Originally Posted by lina75

All I want is a shorter learning curve, a step by step guide that teaches, not telling what to do. As a newbie I also know how to make 3K a month: write 10 articles a day equaling 300 a month, choose 5-10 niches and post it to ezine, after that post to several directories, but if you want to be more effective, rewrite the article then post it to directories. Once you're done go to socialmarker and bookmark all your articles.
After a month those products that sells, create backlinks by creating free websites or blogs pointing to that product website.

If you want more revenue, add adsense to your site or you can even add some CPA polls to the site that are pulling in the traffic. so you have 3 source of income there.

I know this thread was started because of the question I posted- Some of you might have earn so much money that you forgot your roots on how you got started and becomes critical of your past.
Some earned their status the hard way so they expect everybody to follow their path.

My thread say's show me how to make $1000 online the easy way, I never say $10,000 or more. I just want to make $1000 that's it. Put it this way- all of you experienced warriors that make tons of money are like officers, executives or CEO's and I am someone who just ask around: do you know how I can make $1000 dollars so that I can at least have some joy in my life...I don't want to be like you-Because i know the learning curve is steep.
In the real world...sure there is way, you can be a rubbish collector or tea lady.

So on the online world I am sure there is a way too, I was hoping for that way.
At first I want to be like you...those Executive, CEOs so I bought WSOs, Ebooks,join membership site but the learning curve is so steep and many manual never really teaches you, they just tells you how to do it and some even tells you to find out yourself on you tube and yet claim ito be newbie friendly.

Sorry just venting out my frustration.

I can understand your frustration as I've been there myself and even though I consider myself a newbie, I am willing to guide you by showing the path that you need to take, the person and the team that will be able to help you in any situation that may arise, so that you can make the income you desired.

Being frustrated is fine, just snap out of it fast and know that someone will show you the way. I believe there are others too in this forum that is willing to take you by hand and make the income you desired. I PM you the details.

[johnsamuels]

Originally Posted by George Wright

Martin's Title was brilliant from the stand point of starting a lively discussion. Threads on the same subject with lesser titles have died a quick and silent death. It attracted a lively discussion with a lot of great points made for different sides, including yours johnsamuels.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and in this discussion mine is that titles like Martins and the subsequent posts bring to surface two mentalities. Winners and (not losers ) Victims. Be a winner or be a victim. It's a choice.

Poor me or Me the Winner. Personally, I've never liked the "Why me" and the "Poor Me" feeling.

George Wright

You do have a point there, and attracting eyeballs is what IM is all about

Funny sig btw.

[tremayne]

I know neither Bluegold (who apparently does not want us to see his real name) or Martin Avis so I have no ax to grind.

But I do have an ax to grind when it comes to this forum and how it is used. For a newbie or anyone else to come onto this forum with unsubstantiated accusations is not what it was intended for. It is a place for those with more than empty space between their ears to learn from those who have fought in the trenches.

Those who want to spend their time grouching instead of learning will never find success, easy or otherwise.

That's my two centavos!

Sydney (and anyone can see my last name on the left!)

[pearsonbrown]

It's interesting the way that some people have read into Martin's title a promise that just isn't there.

When my father goes to his doctor, he expects bad news. So when he is given good news, he often mishears it as bad news. These days I have to go with him just to get an accurate picture.

It can be the same when people are reading. They can bring their prior expectations to a piece of writing. What is an objective piece of writing can be misinterpreted because of prior misconceptions.

There are far too many people who enter IM with a sense of entitlement. So, of course, there is a pool of sharks out there waiting for them. That's why I put my energies into the Reviews forum here. We help identify the sharks.

Pearson

PS Martin Avis is the most decent, straightforward person I know.

[drmani]

I've learned something valuable from a mentor. It's this.

There are 3 kinds of people who attend a seminar, or buy a course or
ebook, or do something else to learn about building a business:

* the ones who are already successful
* the ones serious about building a business, who work at it
* the ones who are playing at it - and who get all the
gratification they want by pretending to be serious about
learning how to do it

It's pretty easy to do a simple self-test to see which group YOU
fall into by analyzing your response or feelings to this discussion
Martin Avis sparked off with a provocative post... specifically with
regard to the cornerstone argument -

"It takes work and some time to build a business
when you're starting from scratch"

1. If you KNOW he's right (albeit to varying degrees), you're likely
to be in the first group.

2. If you FEEL he's right (albeit to varying degrees), you're likely
to be in the second.

3. If you feel he's completely wrong, and that making money or finding
success at anything is just a matter of luck, timing, and hitting
that next big winner by following that latest 'shiny new thing'...
well, I won't say it, but you can figure out which group *I* think
you fall into

For the record, from YEARS of studying Martin's style and being
guided by what he teaches about building online business, I can
say he's among the few who are totally hype-free and down to earth
in their advice, suggestions and guidance.

Should you follow him and believe what he says? That's your choice!

The one tiny niggling point on which I mildly disagree with Martin is
at putting the blame squarely on the 'newbie' who asked (begged?) for
a way to "make money easily online".

I agree with those seeking to also blame those (who should know better)
who convinced them that it was not only possible to do so, but almost
inevitable!

Yet, if you pause to think about it, even those marketers know their
audience. It's the folks in the last group above - who are PLAYING
at business building, and happily consume these "build business EASILY"
products every day - even glorify folks who sell it to them!

"Don't Judge a Man Until You Have Walked a Mile in His Boots!"

or

"Horses for Courses"

My 2 cents. Take it (with a pinch of salt) or leave it!

All success
Dr.Mani

[bluegold14]

Originally Posted by tremayne

I know neither Bluegold (who apparently does not want us to see his real name) or Martin Avis so I have no ax to grind.

You are too quick on judging people you don't know. If you paid a little attention you would have seen that I have a signature on my post. That's my real name.

Originally Posted by tremayne

For a newbie or anyone else to come onto this forum with unsubstantiated accusations is not what it was intended for. It is a place for those with more than empty space between their ears to learn from those who have fought in the trenches.

Again you are too quick on judging and making assumptions. My comment was not and is not "unsubstantiated accusation". It just meant to show that IMarketers' hype (forum signatures like that are just an example) is to a large extent responsible for newbies "easy", "no-work" mindset.

Firstly they create the monster. Then they start a thread to criticize it...

Originally Posted by Sonomacats

Clearly you're not familiar with Martin's work.

Why should I? That's not being discussed here.

Originally Posted by Sonomacats

Unlike most of the low number posters on this forum.

Unfortunately my values are far different. I don't judge people for the number of posts, for the car they drive or the cloths they wear or the money they have.

An idiot is an idiot whether he has 1 or 10 thousand posts here, an idiot is an idiot whether he drives a Ferrari or a Beetle.

[ecom]

I feel patience is the key... Nothing is impossible and neither easy.. If you can dedicate time, slowly and gradually you can earn from online.. I know people who earn 4 figures in a day.. but they really give their best to earn that..

[pearsonbrown]

"Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded!"

Anybody like to guess who wrote that?

Pearson

[johnsamuels]

Originally Posted by pearsonbrown

"Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded!"

Anybody like to guess who wrote that?

Pearson

Maggie Thatcher.