Newbies: Sorry to disappoint, but there is one word you've badly misunderstood ...

[pearsonbrown]

It's interesting the way that some people have read into Martin's title a promise that just isn't there.

When my father goes to his doctor, he expects bad news. So when he is given good news, he often mishears it as bad news. These days I have to go with him just to get an accurate picture.

It can be the same when people are reading. They can bring their prior expectations to a piece of writing. What is an objective piece of writing can be misinterpreted because of prior misconceptions.

There are far too many people who enter IM with a sense of entitlement. So, of course, there is a pool of sharks out there waiting for them. That's why I put my energies into the Reviews forum here. We help identify the sharks.

Pearson

PS Martin Avis is the most decent, straightforward person I know.

[drmani]

I've learned something valuable from a mentor. It's this.

There are 3 kinds of people who attend a seminar, or buy a course or
ebook, or do something else to learn about building a business:

* the ones who are already successful
* the ones serious about building a business, who work at it
* the ones who are playing at it - and who get all the
gratification they want by pretending to be serious about
learning how to do it

It's pretty easy to do a simple self-test to see which group YOU
fall into by analyzing your response or feelings to this discussion
Martin Avis sparked off with a provocative post... specifically with
regard to the cornerstone argument -

"It takes work and some time to build a business
when you're starting from scratch"

1. If you KNOW he's right (albeit to varying degrees), you're likely
to be in the first group.

2. If you FEEL he's right (albeit to varying degrees), you're likely
to be in the second.

3. If you feel he's completely wrong, and that making money or finding
success at anything is just a matter of luck, timing, and hitting
that next big winner by following that latest 'shiny new thing'...
well, I won't say it, but you can figure out which group *I* think
you fall into

For the record, from YEARS of studying Martin's style and being
guided by what he teaches about building online business, I can
say he's among the few who are totally hype-free and down to earth
in their advice, suggestions and guidance.

Should you follow him and believe what he says? That's your choice!

The one tiny niggling point on which I mildly disagree with Martin is
at putting the blame squarely on the 'newbie' who asked (begged?) for
a way to "make money easily online".

I agree with those seeking to also blame those (who should know better)
who convinced them that it was not only possible to do so, but almost
inevitable!

Yet, if you pause to think about it, even those marketers know their
audience. It's the folks in the last group above - who are PLAYING
at business building, and happily consume these "build business EASILY"
products every day - even glorify folks who sell it to them!

"Don't Judge a Man Until You Have Walked a Mile in His Boots!"

or

"Horses for Courses"

My 2 cents. Take it (with a pinch of salt) or leave it!

All success
Dr.Mani

[bluegold14]

Originally Posted by tremayne

I know neither Bluegold (who apparently does not want us to see his real name) or Martin Avis so I have no ax to grind.

You are too quick on judging people you don't know. If you paid a little attention you would have seen that I have a signature on my post. That's my real name.

Originally Posted by tremayne

For a newbie or anyone else to come onto this forum with unsubstantiated accusations is not what it was intended for. It is a place for those with more than empty space between their ears to learn from those who have fought in the trenches.

Again you are too quick on judging and making assumptions. My comment was not and is not "unsubstantiated accusation". It just meant to show that IMarketers' hype (forum signatures like that are just an example) is to a large extent responsible for newbies "easy", "no-work" mindset.

Firstly they create the monster. Then they start a thread to criticize it...

Originally Posted by Sonomacats

Clearly you're not familiar with Martin's work.

Why should I? That's not being discussed here.

Originally Posted by Sonomacats

Unlike most of the low number posters on this forum.

Unfortunately my values are far different. I don't judge people for the number of posts, for the car they drive or the cloths they wear or the money they have.

An idiot is an idiot whether he has 1 or 10 thousand posts here, an idiot is an idiot whether he drives a Ferrari or a Beetle.

[ecom]

I feel patience is the key... Nothing is impossible and neither easy.. If you can dedicate time, slowly and gradually you can earn from online.. I know people who earn 4 figures in a day.. but they really give their best to earn that..

[pearsonbrown]

"Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded!"

Anybody like to guess who wrote that?

Pearson

[johnsamuels]

Originally Posted by pearsonbrown

"Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded!"

Anybody like to guess who wrote that?

Pearson

Maggie Thatcher.

[Harvey.Segal]

Originally Posted by pearsonbrown

"Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded!"

Anybody like to guess who wrote that?

Pearson

The headline on that page needs to be rewritten for clarity , like this

"Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded if
you have just made a sale because the commission will go
straight into your Paypal account (and you'll soon be
able to get a Ferrari) but note that I am not actually
saying that your efforts, e.g posting a link in a forum,
will instantly make a sale and give you commission
(leaving you stuck with a Beetle)"

Harvey




.

[khairulazan]

Making money online is not easy...

I don't to those IM make the over promising sales copy..

[keystothemind]

At the age of 12 of 12 or 13 my father told me 'there's no such thing as easy money.'
and heck, even if there was, it would be hollow!

It means so much more if you know you have earn edit, and let's face it, money definitely should not be the only reason why we are here!

[Harvey.Segal]

Originally Posted by keystothemind

At the age of 12 of 12 or 13 my father told me

That's quite young for a father.

[bluegold14]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

Pearson

The headline on that page needs to be rewritten for clarity , like this

"Where Your Affiliate Efforts Are Instantly Rewarded if
you have just made a sale because the commission will go
straight into your Paypal account (and you'll soon be
able to get a Ferrari) but note that I am not actually
saying that your efforts, e.g posting a link in a forum,
will instantly make a sale and give you commission
(leaving you stuck with a Beetle)"

Harvey
.

Pls...several marketers trying to pick on me because of the word "instantly"?! Come on, you can do better than that.

BTW it is clearly stated that "... you can get paid instantly into your Paypal account, every time someone clicks on your link and makes a purchase." Now tell me that's hype too.

Harvey, if I were after posting links in this forum to make sales I'd have thousands of posts here instead of 20...If you didn't notice I'm a member since 2006.

I'm afraid I'll finally strike it rich with this $2.50 report and buy me a Ferrari...

In the meantime I'll jump inside my Beetle and drive to the beach. Enjoy your weekend.

[Danny Turner]

No offence to Martin intended but ... can''t
help to notice the irony in the thread subject and th sig. line
The reason why people new to IM look for the EASY way is because of promises like
Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income?
one follows the other so ..... if you are sick of people with unrealistic expectations
stop using unrealistic sales pitches .........

[Danny Turner]

Quote:
"Originally Posted by keystothemind View Post
At the age of 12 of 12 or 13 my father told me"
That's quite young for a father.
chuckle

[prevmedone]

I agree that the ads could be a bit misleading and intentional at times, but people have to understand, "if it sounds too good to be true, it most probably is!"

Should we as newbies or experienced really believe someone is going to tell you all the secrets of their trade for a measly $29.95?

The truth is, Nothing is easy, life tells you that. Everything takes effort, some more or less than others. To expect an easy free ride just opens you up to be disappointed.

[phoenixx9000]

Why do people make the assumption that because someone has a small number of posts that they are a "newbie" or "not making any money online"? Just because you dont have thousands of posts on here doesnt mean you arent making any money - just means you dont like to post a lot!

[Martin.Avis]

Originally Posted by Danny Turner

No offence to Martin intended but ... can''t
help to notice the irony in the thread subject and th sig. line
The reason why people new to IM look for the EASY way is because of promises like
Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income?
one follows the other so ..... if you are sick of people with unrealistic expectations
stop using unrealistic sales pitches .........

No offence taken.

As I've repeatedly tried to explain in this thread, my sig line is not offering an easy solution. It is offering to teach people how to turn work (yes, that word again) into income. It certainly wasn't easy for me to learn the stuff I needed to get into my thick head and it took me years to get to the stage where I can make a comfortable living.

If I can share the things I've learned so that others will have a somewhat shallower learning curve themselves, then I see that as being a good thing.

A headline (or sig line) is designed to capture attention, it is the tone and intent of the sales letter behind it that determines whether hype or value is being sold. And even beyond that, a money-back guarantee ensures that the buyer isn't conned or misled.

Funnily enough I did debate with myself whether to display my sig when I started this thread. I knew it might derail the thrust of the arguement for some people. However, I decided to leave it - not because I wanted to make sales, but because I felt that removing it would look as if I had something to hide. And I don't feel that I do.

This whole thread has taken me by surprise.

Normally when I start a thread it gets a few views and quickly disappears. I certainly wasn't expecting the level of interest that this one has gathered. I'm very pleased to have sparked a lively debate though, and thank everyone who has constructively added to the conversation, whether they agree with me or not!

Internet marketing may not be easy, but then neither is exposing your thoughts and opinions for others to shoot at! But I guess Steve W knows a lot more about how hard that can be than I do!

They are both a lot of fun though!

Martin

[VinnyBock]

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

No, your misinterpretation of what the sig is offering is the root of the problem.

Nowhere in that sig is the word easy used. I do say that you need to put in two hours work though - and isn't it funny how many people object to that!

Martin

Oh OK....
You Didn't actually use the word "Easy", so I guess you have complete immunity?
6 figures working 2 hours, even if I was cracking up side-walk with a sledge hammer, 2 hours for 6 figures is easy.

[Bev Clement]

I've just been in the review area of the forum, and it is interesting to see how many people complaining about a product because it is a lot of work, or takes a lot of time.

Not only do they want instant riches, they also don't want to take any action. Did you know that around 20% of all digital products bought never get downloaded. That is a lot of money being thrown down the drain and I would think these people are complaining they never make any money either.

No seller ever forced you to buy their product, they might have done a good job of trying to persuade you with their sales letters, but remember there is only one person responsible for your buying actions. YOU!!

Too many people fail to understand they are addicted to shopping/buying. They fail to take responsiblity for their finances and the choices they make. Only one person is responsible for buying every product under the sun, for not using the product when bought, for getting into debt, and that is the person whose bank account is being used. I am responsible for my bank account, the way I buy and the way I run my business.

Take responsibilty, and if you are not able to make logical decisions based on the needs of your business or wants then it is your fault nobody else. If you go to the mall and end up buying more than you need, again is it the shops fault for having the goods or your fault for not being disciplined?

[achivement84]

Nice post, thanks a lot

I agree with you ,Of course making money via IM isn`t an easy task at all, it initially require many skills to start dealing with the appropriate tools, even when you become harmonious with them you will still have to arrange your stuff , you will have to learn more and more concepts and keep learning to be able to work with the most advanced techniques and to achive good results, it will take many nights from hard work to just setup your business, but any way it still my favorit job.

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

As I've repeatedly tried to explain in this thread, my sig line is not offering an easy solution. It is offering to teach people how to turn work (yes, that word again) into income. It certainly wasn't easy for me to learn the stuff I needed to get into my thick head and it took me years to get to the stage where I can make a comfortable living.
They are both a lot of fun though!

Martin

I'm not picking on you at all ... I actually read the entire WSO and it is not misleading ...
past the headline. I do have to agree that the headline, Who Else Wants to Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income ... implies EASY. It also implies a certain amount of money for a ridiculously small amount of effort.

This is exactly what many prospects are looking for. This is what they want. They will skim over the rest of your offer, except for the price and disregard most of what else is said ... what will resonate with them is 2 hours ... 6 figure income.

Undoubtedly, they are not overly endowed either with intelligence or common sense, IMHO, because many of us instinctively, or through experience, knows that there are no free rides and if it sounds too good to be true, it is.

The bigger issue will be in the long run, how the FTC views statements like Turn 2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income and how you propose to present "Standard Results", since you cannot use the customary disclaimer ... results may vary.

[lightanjoy]

So what is hard and what is easy ... its all relative innit!

If you are enjoying something and are fired up about it it becomes an absolute breeze ... carpal tunnel and all!

Are you fixed on a struggle and lack mentality, or a flow and abundant one, appreciation in the journey, or fixed on some far off seemingly unattainable end goal?

I used to be into struggle .. it stinks!

Appreciation makes the whole journey so much more fun whether it involves 100 hours a week or 10

I remember being fired up at some early hype and enjoyed being fired up at the time
Then I got disappointed
Then I got fired up about losing my naivity and getting to the 'next stage'
Then looked for support that turned out to be poor quality
And from that was able to better distinguish what I wanted and find better support
... and so the 'fine tuning' started..... and I got fired up about that .. just like when I made my first dollar and realised it COULD work and that it could be leveraged .... there's a gift in every experience ... we can appreciate the hype heh! It leads to the GOLD

[ristvin]

You are so dead right on Martin... I've had my ups online... when I seriously decided to treat this online marketing thing as a business... and my downs... when I followed the get rich quick gurus... all they did is make me spend money I really didn't have and dig my online grave...

You have to treat any marketing endeavor as a true business. Online my be virtual, but the business end of it isn't. It's a lot of work (not spending 30 minutes a day in your pajamas). I spend so much time writing content to make my money that my neighbors think I'm addicted to the internet.

So the "easy" word and its derivatives is a myth....

[Martin.Avis]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I'm not picking on you at all ...

I've got broad shoulders! I rather suspected that my sig might be misunderstood, but didn't realize how much it would end up distracting some folk from the real message.

Still, it has been an interesting and lively conversation!

Martin

[Peter Woodhead]

Martin,

My sentiments entirely.

Nearly all the so-called "gurus" target the unaware newbie with a big promise.

But the reality is that making money online is very possible but first there is a MASSIVE learning curve. Or a series of learning curves.

Perhaps the word "easy" should be replaced by "simple." Then it would be more honest. But of course, telling the truth would, for some marketers, reduce the effect.

I think there's a huge market for a product about "Internet Marketing - The Truth."

Hmmm... that could be project number 102.

Thanks for the post Martin. It needed to be said.

[MattSteel]

Originally Posted by susanm

If it's not easy, then I want a refund on 95% of the IM products I have ever purchased. I also want to know what's so darn hard about turning "2 Hours Work Per Week Into a Full-Time 6-Figure Income" (see your sig). And I also want my damn biscuit! Woof! Er, I mean, meow.

Well said! I noticed that link in the signature too! hmmmmm As a newbie on this site, I am not new to this world of making money online. But then again, I have friends who are in this field. Many newbies do not have that luxury and may be looking for friends and guidance. I would bet that everyone in this thread once asked the same question "What is the best way to make money online?" to someone when they first started out. My follow up question is usually, "What are your interests and what do you LIKE?" Get the newbie involved in making his/her own goals. Ever hear of "Pay it forward"? Warren Buffet routinely gives something back to the community (and not just $$$$), just like those who helped you in the beginning did for you. Who knows? Maybe you will have just helped the next internet billionaire...and he may just remember your kindness. Stay positive.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

Internet marketing may not be easy, but then neither is exposing your thoughts and opinions for others to shoot at! But I guess Steve W knows a lot more about how hard that can be than I do!

Martin

Martin, look up the phrase "target on your back" in the encyclopedia and
you'll find a picture of me next to the explanation.

I've never been afraid to speak my mind and have had my head handed
back to me more than once because of it.

For what it's worth, I find nothing wrong with your sig and agree with
the OP.

Ironically, a lot of people who bitch about these "hyped up" sigs, sales
pages or whatever, do the exact same thing in order to try to make the
sale themselves. It's called marketing. And I for one have never understood
the hypocrisy that takes place when it comes to this very issue.

In other words, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

It makes a mess of the carpeting.

[russ_hamel]

There's a story of a famous concert artist, tired after a long evening of emotionally draining performing, facing his 'fans' to answer the same-old questions and comments... again.

One gushing fan commented, "I'd give ANYTHING to be able to play like you!"

The famous maestro replied, "No you wouldn't."

Just like an IM marketer, an experienced concert artist makes 'magic' by making his/her playing look so effortless and fun, that ANYONE could do it. But that very same concert artist KNOWS the YEARS of training, endless daily practice, sometimes 10-14 hours, IN ADDITION to the concert performances and interviews!

Yes, Martin can write his newsletter in a couple of hours. But that is just ONE of the many things he does online. He has other products. He has marketing. He has networking. Just like a concert artist doesn't rely on only one song in his/her repertoire, the experienced and successful IM'er has a vast repertoire of income streams and tasks to practice day in and day out.

As a private music teacher for the past 37 years, I get people wanting to be a concert artist in three months, too because they saw their friend make it look 'so easy'. After screening for aptitude, I give these folks the 'work' talk. They promise me they'll do 'EVERYTHING' I tell them. Sadly, these folks QUIT before three months time when they realize the true meaning of...

how did Martin put it - (oh, yeah, block your eyes and ears if you are sensitive to strong four letter words)

WORK!

It's not only in IM - the something for nothing crowd is ubiquitous!

All the best from Toronto,
Russ

[susanm]

I did not mean my post to be an attack on Martin. I'm sure he is a great guy (really, especially as evidenced by all the people who have flocked to his support), and for all I know, his WSO could well be terrific.

But it just seems all too common for people to tell you how easy it is while they're taking your money, and then, if you actually expect it should BE easy, they slap you in the head.

And I'll admit it: I WANT it to be easy. Don't you? I appreciate a challenge as much as the next guy, but when you're struggling to put food on the table, you want the fastest, easiest route from point A to point B.

Having said that, I actually do agree with much of what was said in the OP. Of course it takes work. Of course you have to learn some stuff and do some stuff, and spend some time and money and effort.

But you can't have it both ways. Wannabe IMers are some of the most "desperate buyers" on the planet. If you are going to play to that desperation with the promise of "money for nothing and chicks for free," why would you be surprised when they expect you to deliver on it?

[Ken Leatherman]

Martin,

Your right a lot of people took exception to your sig and used it to launch their attack against being marketed to. HEY FOLKS! WAKE UP! This is a marketing forum and the signatures are there for that very purpose.

Smell the roses and see the valuable lesson, that is between the lines of this thread, a headline (read sig file) is all important to your success and dare I say it, make it easier for you to make money on the internet.

Let's face it many of us see what we want to see, hear what we want to hear and then when it's not there, we blame everyone but ourselves. Take responsibility for your own actions and use common sense.

I do want to say thank you to everyone who has participated in this thread. Whether it was good, bad, or indifferent, the thread count is what got me in here. Without it I wouldn't have come in here to see what all the fuss is about. And yes Martin's sig file got me over to his WSO and guess what I'm going to get his product because I trust him and I need the knowledge to take my business up another notch.

Ken Letherman
The Old Geezer

[TMG Enterprises]

And I'll admit it: I WANT it to be easy. Don't you? I appreciate a challenge as much as the next guy, but when you're struggling to put food on the table, you want the fastest, easiest route from point A to point B.

I disagree with wanting the "fastest, easiest route", particularly when struggling to put food on the table. I raised three kids on my own and on a paycheck of less than $20,000 annually for most of it. When I needed something, I didn't look for the "fastest, easiest route", I looked for WHATEVER route would work. It didn't matter how hard I had to work or what I had to do, feeding my kids and keeping a roof over their heads was the goal and I would get it done.

Not everyone is looking for easy. Some of us were raised with the belief that anything worthwhile was worth working for...some of us were not raised the same way.

Tina

[Steven Wagenheim]

I'm gonna tell you all something that will surprise you.

If somebody came to me and said, "Here, push this button and you'll make
$1,000 a day" I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Sure I'd love to find something "easy" that can make me a steady income.

But until Merlin The Magician invents it, I'll just keep doing what works.

[safari148]

The Internet has the possibility of immediately coming across the roads of top gurus, and that creates a sense of having found the gold mine at last. But similarly to any competition in sports, we are only interested by the winners and focus on them, we know how many matches they have won, their records and with the help of some paparazzi papers even much about their private lives. What is harder to know about them is the many years they have trained, the effort they have conceded to.

Similarly the IM does not say too often all about the initial training that is needed to use his “Even-a-caveman-can-do-this” opportunity. Flying a big airline is a “business as usual” for pilots, but it also was some many years of training and studying. Once it all is understood effectively, it’s simple and pilots may even say that flying is what they do happily with no salary, as long as they are paid to overnight in hotels around the world.

Learning the IM job is fun, and by taking it in one’s own stride step by step makes it for an easy road. There is nothing more enjoyable than breaking through a barrier that was baring our way as we proceed, the results are immediate, and the learning curve never ends.

[Kevin]

I'm not quite a a single-digit WF n00b but what a very interesting evolving thread. A great job of telling the truth too Martin. Lets hope lots of 'prospects' get to read it before they waste time and cash they can't afford.

If everyone who wants to make money online was told the biggest truth first, their perceptions about the ease (or not) of achieving their wealth goals would help them make better decisions at the start.

And what is (IMO) the biggest truth? ... the internet is only a tool of business it is not the business itself.

Any business (online of off) is a legal entity in the real world and real businesses need people putting in time and effort to make them work. Not least to do that boring but essential paperwork and accounting stuff.

I sometimes wonder how those trying to make a buck or two online manage to ignore that real world businesses, even those with websites sometimes go bust. Is it the hype in some copy or is it they think or want it to be easy?

It's very rare that marketers sell sustainable growth in their copy because it doesn't sell as much as selling the dream and sadly not many look for 'slow to start', regular income, when what they (the prospective money-makers) think they want is lots of money ... now.

There can be no denying that money is being transferred via the web. Some people are making a profit and some a loss. It's a great source of amusement to me these days to read some pitches spotting something that isn't the 'whole truth'.

There must be 1000's of analogies that would explain the obvious to interns in internet marketing but probably the simplest would be how many bands are there out there and how many 'make it big'?

Not many I guess but there are more people out there enjoying what they do as part of their lifestyle than those getting ripped off.

Thankfully marketing is on the cusp of yet another profitable change.

[angiebee]

I totally agree, but I have to say I can see why some think that way with all the hype from the gurus saturating their sales letter with the subtle and not subtle conversations that you don't "really" have to do any work. As we all know, common sense is still fairly uncommon. So there will always be those who want something for nothing.

[kenharthun]

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

I've just read yet another post from a single-digit WF newbie asking (or maybe it was begging) for someone to tell them how to make money easily online.
<snip>
Making REAL money online isn't a game. Okay, at the lower end it can be a paying hobby, but for those of us who support our families and save money for a rainy day, this is real life.
Martin

Thanks, Martin! And I'll give some real life examples of people who don't have a clue.

1. I just cleaned out more than 800 people from my Twitter account who posted nothing but links all the time, sometimes 50 times in a row. Most of these poor folks, I'm sure, were just misinformed newbies who got scammed into buying the latest make-easy-money-with-Twitter "system" that doesn't work.

2. I'm on several social networking sites and it never fails (since I'm featured on some of them) that I continually get this kind of drivel from clueless newbies who think they can make a fortune "easily" in IM:

"Using [this new super great system that only costs you $197/month] is super easy and only takes a
few minutes every 3 days!"

Of course, you can expect to make 6 figures per month with this system as long as you're a "member."

Anyone who has a clue knows it takes a lot of work to build a business and build the traffic that will make it profitable. That's not to say that you can't build a system that runs on autopilot, but you had better be ready to put in the 100, 200, 300 or more hours it takes to build that system before you can expect to cruise. And you had better be ready to repeat that effort many times before you have enough of those "autopilot" systems in place before you can sit back and enjoy a life of leisure.

Any "gurus" out there who disagree with me are free to meet with me, and set up their "system" on my site after placing the amount that everyone in their testimonials swears they earned in an escrow account payable immediately upon my not having earned the projected amount within the time frame they say I should.

I prefer building my business on a foundation of honesty, integrity and personal contact with my customers and prospects. Nothing "easy" about that. And nothing fast about it either.

Cheers!

[steveblum]

The truth is you can still work your butt off and only get deeper in debt. It happens to thousands of people every single day in this industry.

It's definitely not easy in most areas of internet marketing because there is so much to learn.

That's why educating yourself, buying e-books, marketing books, courses, etc. is so important to building your knowledge about this industry.

I have busted my tail for months at a time and not received one single penny back, not one! And I was spending a couple hundred bucks a month on education and programs.

The truth is, if it doesn't work change something. Don't let is get you down because every time you fail, you take those experiences and grow into a better person and smarter marketer.

It's the circle of life in the Internet Marketing realm. It's hard work and sometimes you're paid back in knowledge rather than dollars.

[Sylviane]

Can't agree more with Martin.Avis here. So many newbies are coming to internet marketing just because they think and hope that they will make money easily as in doing nothing. They don't even expect to have to work hard to make it in this business, and sometimes when they come to the realization that they will have to work they just give up, to get back to their full time job LOL!

Of course the internet gurus selling trash are much to blame for this. However, once you've understood not to believe the gurus and get down to the real thing, you need to understand that this is not going to happen on it's own. NOTHING does, EVER. Every thing in life does take efforts. Internet marketing is no different.

[AndrewCavanagh]

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

Why not go onto a forum for restauranteurs and ask them out of the blue how you can easily start a successful restaurant? Do you think they might laugh at you?

How about plumbers? Try asking a bunch of them how you can easily make a grand a month with no outlay fixing people's radiators? Do you think they might think you're a bit crazy?

That's a very nice way of making people realize their mindset is screwed up.

There's a VERY steep learning curve when you first start internet marketing and even though it has got a whole lot easier than it was 5-10 years ago it's still not easy to get started.

Having said that anyone who is genuinely committed to putting in the effort required will probably make money in a reasonable amount of time.

The quicker you go from looking for easy solutions to simply aquiring the skill and taking the actions that can make you money the quicker you'll start making a good income.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[Daniel E Taylor]

Interesting discussion.

Yesterday I woke up and sent 1 email out and made more
money in one day then most people do in a week or two.

It was pretty damn easy to me...

*Shrugs*

[tunukwa]

Hi,
I am a newbie and when I first started reading the post I was greatful for the comments but as they went on it seemed the tone changed and it is to this I would like to respond if you don't mind.



As a newbie what has brought me here is your marketing, your headlines for instance yelling " Learn how a 23 newbie made thousands of dollars with one single idea on this first attempt at internet,maketing - no list, no money, - no product." I bought the product, Click Bank.... (I won't name the product here because I am not that clear about the rules) - it was massively hyped by all the guru's as being from a newbie. Turns out the guy had been marketing very successfully for over 10 YEARS not internet marketing but marketing is marketing. In my newbie opinion, he was not a newbie at all - he was not even new to the internet turns out he had run several sucessful campaigns before this product.


A good marketer makes people believe what they are saying. Now that we believe what you have told us, that it is quick and easy - one click of the mouse - push button easy - step by step instruction, you know you write the copy - you turn on us and say what fools you are.


A previous post states, "The good thing is that you can be away from the computer and still make money but not until you have established your presence on the internet." and my question is have you ever put that in any of your headlines? I have never read one framed like that. All I ever hear is "Make money while you are sleeping, on vacation etc. " Marketers teach people to write statements like that because they study psychology and know that people will give them their money when you say that to them. Even other marketers read excellently writen copy for products they know are less that stellar and feel they want to buy. But when someone outside the circle acts this way we are looked down up as being stupid.



Another post says, "A far bigger component is the entitlement mentality that is so prevalent. The 'I want it now and I want it fast' attitude from people who don't want a business plan or a detailed step-by-step how-to manual - they just want a magic wand." This is the western mind set, the same mind set that the internet is spreading around the world. This marketing mindset is of course found in all advertising in the west, it is an instant gratification culture as you know. How many of you who are now so critical of what you have produced in the form of newbies, began your internet career with a business plan?



We are hounded relentlessly by marketers, on the phone, internet, mail etc. and now when we come into the forum, the sanctum sanctorium we are thrashed. Remember, your marketing to us has helped make us what you see before you, perhaps a little introspection rather than pious condemnation would be more appropriate.


Your friend,

tunukwa

PS -please, no hot coals or anything like that - be nice, I am new here.
PPS-don't scare me away - remember I helped send your kids to college.......

[Martin.Avis]

Originally Posted by tunukwa

We are hounded relentlessly by marketers, on the phone, internet, mail etc. and now when we come into the forum, the sanctum sanctorium we are thrashed. Remember, your marketing to us has helped make us what you see before you, perhaps a little introspection rather than pious condemnation would be more appropriate.

My original post wasn't intented to attack newbies at all - it was supposed to help them!

What I am trying to attack is the erroneous mindest that dooms so many people to fail. You see, if you can learn right at the beginning that the learning curve is steep and that you are very unlikely to find an EASY answer, then you are much more likely to approach Internet marketing in a way that will be successful.

The Warrior Forum and the many experienced people in it are very rarely unnecessarily nasty to newbies. Sensible questions are almost always met with helpful and contrictive answers. In fact, the attacks are often the other way around - how many times do we see someone post a very clear, step-by-step explanation of a good way to make money, only to find newbies posting that it is too hard or costs too much to start?

Newbies are not all created equal though.

We do occasionally dump on individuals who would rather whine than work, ask non-questions that nobody can answer, or throw back sensible advice because it involves too much effort.

But in general, sensible newbies who really want to learn and are not afraid of a bit of graft or a modicum of expense, get a very positive response.

I don't think that 'pious condemnation' is a good description of what goes on here at all. But I guess that even the most 'contructive criticism' can be taken the wrong way by someone who doesn't get the answer he or she had expected.

Martin

[JayXtreme]

So...

Can I now turn my 10 hours into a 30 figure income?....

Peace

Jay

[Martin.Avis]

Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor

Interesting discussion.

Yesterday I woke up and sent 1 email out and made more
money in one day then most people do in a week or two.

It was pretty damn easy to me...

*Shrugs*

Same here. But you and I have learned the craft to the point where it does seem easy - to US.

I'm reminded of the story of Picasso, who was sitting in a restaurant when a lady came up to him and said she'd pay anything for an original sketch.

The great man asked the waiter for two paper napkins. On one he drew a simple line drawing and on the other he wrote an invoice for a huge sum of money.

The woman was aghast. "How can you charge so much for something you just took 30 seconds to do?"

Picasso smiled and replied, "The price isn't for a 30-second sketch, it is for the 30 years it has taken me to learn how to create it."


Easy is the prize at the top of the learning curve, not the first step at the foot of it.

Martin

[susanm]

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

So...

Can I now turn my 10 hours into a 30 figure income?....

Peace

Jay

As long as you don't expect it to be easy!

[theimdude]

Originally Posted by Martin.Avis

I've just read yet another post from a single-digit WF newbie asking (or maybe it was begging) for someone to tell them how to make money easily online.

Can you spot the word that makes the request a total nonsense?

Can you see the word that has doomed this newbie to fail?

Can you comprehend the mindset that makes failure inevitable?

I'm sure you can.

The word is easily.

It might have been easy, easier or easiest.

Here is a wake up call: Internet marketing isn't easy.

Sorry. It had to be said. Making money online - and I mean real money, pay the bills and feed the kids money, consistent, do-it-again-next-month money - that takes effort, skill, experience and work.

It ain't easy.

At least, not in the way you've interpreted the word.

You see, when we 'experienced' folk say that it is easy we are misleading you badly. We don't really mean easy in the sense that it is so dead simple that an elderly dog can be taught to do it for biscuits. It isn't a self-working party trick.

When we say easy we mean that it isn't particularly hard or complicated, it doesn't require years of training and it certainly doesn't need the IQ if Einstein (thank goodness). But it does need consistent, focused, results-centric effort.

Complex, but not complicated.

Or to put it another way, work.

Sorry to burst the bubble.

Here's a radical idea. Why not go onto a forum for restauranteurs and ask them out of the blue how you can easily start a successful restaurant? Do you think they might laugh at you?

How about plumbers? Try asking a bunch of them how you can easily make a grand a month with no outlay fixing people's radiators? Do you think they might think you're a bit crazy?

Ah. you might say, "those are real life businesses - I'm talking about making money online."

SLAP! (I hope you felt that round the side of your head.)

What makes you think that a business (for that is what making $1000 or more a month is) online is any different to one offline? Business is business and the people who understand that and treat it with the respect it requires are half way to doing well.

Making REAL money online isn't a game. Okay, at the lower end it can be a paying hobby, but for those of us who support our families and save money for a rainy day, this is real life.

And when you are just starting out, it isn't 'easy'.

Over time it does get easier, but if you are a newbie understand this: you will have to learn some skills, you will have to spend some money, you will have to work some things out for yourself, you will have to stand on your own feet, you will have to (cover your ears and eyes if you are of a nervous disposition) ...

Work.


Martin

So you wern't a newby before?

You see you WSO is exactly why and what newbies are searching for

Easy Money - $1mil house fancy car, fancy holidays and that
makes them as that question

So why judge them when you add the fuel to the fantasy that you and 1000's of other "IM marketers have started"

Why would sell you idea for a measly $100 if it can really make that money?

I will keep it to myself.

I found a marketer once that claims his system makes him a $1000 a day.
I noticed his website really needed a makeover and offered to do him a proper ecover for $20 and sort out a few things.

He said he will get back to me.

[johnes4th]

I would still consider myself newbie-ish. I started by only paying for hosting and an autoresponder because I didn't have the money to spend on anything else (which led to a ton of manual work).

Granted, it is hard work (it is a business) but I am make enough to cover all of my bills and my wife can now go back to finish her degree so I have met my minimum goals when I started.

I think that the best piece of advice that I wish I would have gotten is put 1/2 of your profit back into your business and use the rest for personal use.

If you make a little more each month, you invest more in your business for software/outsourcing and still have more money to spend on yourself.

Once I understood that it really is a business and should be treated like one, everything else fell into place. (just needed to change my mindset a little).

It is a simple, almost obvious piece of advice, but a critical one nevertheless.

[proveitworks]

I have know Martin for several years...he is in my opinion someone who calls a spade a spade and knows what he is talking about.

Its about action........if I had followed his advice 4 years ago I would have made a fortune.

I didn't - I thought I knew better......13 million web pages in google then they were all hacked off the face of the earth...Imagine if I had had an e-mail sign up on every page.

I didn't- why? Because I didn't know how to run and operate an efficient e-mail newsletter that was NOT niched.....

Martin does

It is significant many IM seem to have bought his course because they are now following his approach.

IF you study his course you WILL make that sort of money in that sort of time irrespective of fads...ranking....seo etc etc.

Its about action.

I am taking action this time.

Martin has not misrepresented himself...........do the maths.

and subscribe to his news letter if nothing else twice week it has me laughing my head off........

[Nathan Alexander]

What do they say?

"After twenty years I'm finally an overnight success!"

[Riddley Walker]

This is my first post on here so I am one of those noobs. I must have spent 20 plus hours this weekend trying to work out how to start in IM. Finding this forum was a big help. I've looked at peoples advice and comments on here , been uplifted, disappointed, jaded and then come back to where i started. I've taken advice on board , read some of your blogs, subscribed to a few.
For me Internet Marketing is still a serious opportunity. I have an offline business and friends in offline businesses. My own business would not have survived if I didnt sort my website and get some SEO and adwords. Unfortunately my business is tough at the moment so I'm looking to apply what little I know and finally get into something that I know can make a massive difference to offline businesses.

I know a big investment in time is needed to get some skills and experience and find what works best for me. The reason behind a weekend of trawling is to try and set out on the right path so that time investment isn't wasted. Yes , I know there are blueprints out there and i will be using one that i paid for ages ago but did nothing about - like a lot of you have suggested , stick with one mentor or plan and work it. I made a few notes on what i'd learned form a weekend of trawling, then this morning i re-visited the course I'd paid for and surprise, surprise it was nearly all covered there , but gold plated with the guys experience.

So why do I think its worth doing? Bearing in mind "99% dont make money or give up" -
1) because i don't believe that figure
2) because the internet is probably the smartest way to market any business
3) most offline business owners are still clueless about it

I've always believed in working smarter rather than harder, which is what I guess it boils down to.
Succeed or fail , I am going to enjoy the journey and learn something!

All the best,
Riddley

[kenharthun]

Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor

Interesting discussion.

Yesterday I woke up and sent 1 email out and made more
money in one day then most people do in a week or two.

It was pretty damn easy to me...

*Shrugs*

Sure, but how much work was it to build the list that allowed you to do that?